Failed expats and the lies they tell others and themselves as to why ...

[WhamBam]

Consider this scenario.

Not uncommon.

You tell all your friends and family in the west, I'm moving to Thailand to live for life. I'm selling my house, car, etc.

Then you show up again in two years or even ten.

Don't kid yourselves.

To those people, they will think you did not fulfill your intentions, regardless of the loaded word failure or not.

I don't believe many (if any) of my friends and associates thought I failed in any way shape or form by going back to the UK for a year or two after 7+ years in Thailand. In fact, many were envious.

Being a single man with his own house, I can do what I please within reason and that means travel or stay where I can do so legally. Many I know are not in the position I am in.

Vote David48 for Poster of the Year. Last day to vote folks.

http://www.thaivisa....-2014-vote-now/

[korkenzieher]

I think there's a couple of issues with the original article, not least that it is very US centric - perhaps Americans last longer in Latin America than in Asia - do Europeans differ? I see more long term Euros in Asia than Americans - many more. It is not possible to say on the kind of shallow analysis this article puts forward. It seems more aimed at reining people in from their own inflated expectation.

However, the greater sin is the conflation of expat with émigré. Ex-pats almost by definition have an intent to return to their country of origin at some point - after say a secondment to a foreign HQ or some such. I very much doubt that the average ex-pat employee has decided to absent himself in perpetuity, at least when he leaves.

Emigration, formal or otherwise, is an entirely different concept. That is cutting the cord. Returning after emigrating is a bigger issue for sure. Plenty of analyses above, which I won't duplicate. However, the one thing I have learned is that some people just aren't cut out for it. They turn up some other place (eg Thailand) and the noise is deafening - complaints about the weather, food, driving standards, politics, water quality and so on.

Frankly, if you wanted Chelmsford (or wherever) with sun, then stay there and wait. It may never come, but you will be a lot happier. And frankly, so will the rest of us who *can* cut it!

[HerbalEd]

I suppose original intention would make a big difference.

For example, someone who feels I'm moving to Thailand with the intention/hope to live there for life vs. I'm moving to Singapore for a spell to jazz up my professional resume. Different things entirely.

Making a mistake ... or changing one's mind about a previous decision ... is not necessarily a "failure." Even so, we fail all the time in life. That's the way we learn.

The road to success is paved with failures.

[Robert24]

Interesting topic. I agree with most comments here that it's not a failure if you move on to live in a different country or back in your own home country. I've lived in the UK, Japan, Hong Kong, Mainland China and Singapore over the last 20 years before I moved to Thailand and I always made home where I lived and adapted to the new environment. If you move to a different country, you usually follow an opportunity whatever this may be. If someone moves from Thailand to a different country for whatever reason, be it financial, health, personal, job reasons, it's not considered a failure, it's a decision to pursue a different opportunity.

I'm in Thailand now for 2 years, hopefully can stay here many more years, but who knows, maybe at some point I will move on to a different country. It may not even be myself, maybe circumstances here change and I decide to go somewhere else. Important is your state of mind, that you don't try convince yourself that you stay here forever whatever the circumstances. That's not good, you should keep an open mind, i.e. I plan to stay here for the long run but if something dramatically I can move on and live somewhere else. And I don't consider any of the stays in the different countries a failure, I learnt a lot in each country and enjoyed my life.

[HerbalEd]

I wouldn't suggest getting too emotionally focused only on the semantics of the fail word. But if that's all people want to talk about, Okie Dokie, it's your call.

"Failed expats" are the first two words in your post's title ... and the "fail word" is a key "focus" of your post, so don't be shocked that people "focus" on it.

Also, you do ask if there are parts of your post which "you vehemently disagree with?." Vehemently? Emotionally focused? Same same.

Edited December 30, 2014 by HerbalEd

[CapeThai]

Oh my God, here we go....

This one should be interesting as it's a touchy subject to some " Failed Expats " who's feelings are hurt......

[Living in a cartoon]

I think we can all agree that Jingthing is a hugely successful expat. If only we could all be so fortunate.

He lives in the best locale on the planet, chauffeured to and fro on a baht bus, and is an authority on the worst places to eat in that fair city by the sea.

Besides, he is what I call an "old Asia hand", savvy in the ways of the mysterious and exotic Orient. Well, a few square miles of it anyway.

All you guys are just jealous.

[transam]

I think we can all agree that Jingthing is a hugely successful expat. If only we could all be so fortunate.

He lives in the best locale on the planet, chauffeured to and fro on a baht bus, and is an authority on the worst places to eat in that fair city by the sea.

Besides, he is what I call an "old Asia hand", savvy in the ways of the mysterious and exotic Orient. Well, a few square miles of it anyway.

All you guys are just jealous.

But he needs to improve his fisticuff skills eh......

[jamiesilver]

I feel like im in kindergartden school reading this crap! is this our fellow expats replies? obviously a lot of failures still here...

[Soutpeel]

I feel like im in kindergartden school reading this crap! is this our fellow expats replies? obviously a lot of failures still here...

Include yourself in that list of failures your refer to ?

[HerbalEd]

I feel like im in kindergartden school reading this crap! is this our fellow expats replies? obviously a lot of failures still here...

But read it you do.

[Jingthing]

On the language (and culture adjustment) issue I failed neglected to mention expat business owners. Succeeding in owning a business, big or small, is no cake walk anywhere, but in a foreign country with language and culture barriers, it seems that much harder. Plus for those coming from the west, Thailand is on the extremes of culture difference. So hats off to those business owners and there are many who have moved to Thailand and actually run a successful business here.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Jingthing

[TheSiemReaper]

Society has pretty clearly demarked the definition of success

In your 'society' does the success of a orphaned, developing-world child reaching maturity safely and in good health, then going on to live a healthy and personally rewarding life equal the success of privileged child graduating from schools then going on to lead a life of monetary and material growth?

Are you trying to tell me that the majority of **** ups in this part of the world are Western orphans escaping care homes? I think you might want to recalibrate the advantages of growing up in the West and compare them to the disadvantages of growing up for most people in the 3rd World. Nearly every expat has had the benefit of a free education, free/subsidized healthcare, a decent diet, etc. the fact that they took all these advantages and turned them to living in a shack eating rubbish and drinking 20 lagers a day is not something to be proud of.

Suggest you speak for yourself about "living in a shack, eating rubbish and drinking 20 lagers a day". There are always exceptions, however, there are none that I know of living in this vicinity of Isaan, a city of over 40,000, although we do have the odd recluse.

I run my own business and wouldn't live in Thailand again if you paid me a million dollars a week. My favourite Thailand memory was having a bloke, smartly dressed in a suit and tie, begging me to buy his drinks in a bar because he'd run out of money... I also enjoy watching farangs live in shop doorways in Bangkok and under bridges. That's clearly got success written all over it.

Unless you're actually working (and teaching English does not count as "working") the only reason to live in Issan is you can't afford to live anywhere else.

[bazza40]

Perhaps "failed expat " refers to falangs who can't adjust to the change in culture, food, climate language etc. and go back to their country of birth with their tail between their legs. There are also expats here that "fail" in reverse because they cannot afford to live in their home country. There are even expats here on retirement visas here without meeting the requisite income or bank cash standards.

Personally, I could live in my country of birth on a part government pension and assets preserved from the GFC. Fairly humbly, no restaurant or other outings and bored shitless. Here, I live very well on the same income and assets, and because I have no interest in the politics of Thailand I save myself a lot of frustration/angst. I feel really sorry for pensioners forced to live in Western society under impoverished circumstances, and it's going to get worse. Governments around the world are waking up to the fact a ballooning older population can't be supported indefinitely by a shrinking working population.

[anon022]

Failure? I didn't "fail" as an expat in Thailand. I just decided after a 1 year's retirement extension that I preferred the first world amenities in the US. I don't care for bars, bar girls, or an excess of alcohol and Thailand is a craphole compared to "most parts" of the US.

Thailand turned into a nice place to visit about once a year for a max of 180 days but usually more like 90. Then I get on a plane and return to everything that makes a first world country comfortable, and to weather that doesn't melt me with heat and humidity.

I'm not skint. I can do what I want to do so "cost of living" isn't an issue even though living well in Thailand doesn't seem that cheap to me.

Haha, although you have enough cash to live well in both countries, it seems you have totally missed the point of living in a country where, compared to the US, you can still do a lot of things you can only dream of in Amerca, like demonstrating without being arrested, beaten up, peppers prayed, tasered to death or shot by the militarized police, or where your kids can still open a lemonade stand without being arrested, or where your granny can still grow her own vegetables without the food police coming 'round to shut it down. Oh how about opening a little street food stand? Ha, virtually all your freedoms have been taken away, and even the food you eat is so full of crap, the government won't even allow it to be printed on the food labels.

So in a way you did fail. By the way, why do most of you still think more money equals more happiness, you've been totally blinded. In Thailand, just as has been proven in many other countries, people with less money are actually relatively happier. People who have a lot of it, are mainly occupied with getting or needing more and have been found less happier overall. You might be one of them.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Impossible

[transam]

Failure? I didn't "fail" as an expat in Thailand. I just decided after a 1 year's retirement extension that I preferred the first world amenities in the US. I don't care for bars, bar girls, or an excess of alcohol and Thailand is a craphole compared to "most parts" of the US.

Thailand turned into a nice place to visit about once a year for a max of 180 days but usually more like 90. Then I get on a plane and return to everything that makes a first world country comfortable, and to weather that doesn't melt me with heat and humidity.

I'm not skint. I can do what I want to do so "cost of living" isn't an issue even though living well in Thailand doesn't seem that cheap to me.

Haha, although you have enough cash to live well in both countries, it seams you have totally missed the point of living in a country where, compared to the US, you can still do a lot of things you can only dream of in America, like demonstrating without being arrested, beaten up, peppers prayed, tasered to death or shot by the militarized police, or where your kids can still open a lemonade stand without being arrested, or where your granny can still grow her own vegetables without the food police coming 'round to shut it down. Oh how about opening a little street food stand? Ha, virtually all your freedoms have been taken away, and even the food you eat is so full of crap, the government won't even allow it to be printed on the food labels.

Thats a load of crap............gawd............

[ginglee]

You're not a failure going back...living here throws a very different light on the place. I came here for 10 years on holidays, and dreamed of living here. Last year I tried it for 6mths, and changed my mind....Thailand would never be a country I would want to live in.

I have respect for the guys who have sold up and moved to Thailand, then a few years later decide it's not for them...Better than the guys who just talk about it, but don't have to balls to take the jump......

[mikebike]

...the only reason to live in Issan is you can't afford to live anywhere else.

You're just full of gems aren't you? Can't yet grasp the fact that some peeps like it in Issan? Each province is like one of Thailand's 77 flavours, something for everyone!!

[transam]

Oh my God, here we go....

This one should be interesting as it's a touchy subject to some " Failed Expats " who's feelings are hurt......

Fink wrong answer......I failed in farangland...........If I "fail" here it is my problem, not yours or the OP.

You want to laugh at me..........?...........Go ahead, don't do it to my ol' face though eh.......

[TheSiemReaper]

...the only reason to live in Issan is you can't afford to live anywhere else.

You're just full of gems aren't you? Can't yet grasp the fact that some peeps like it in Issan? Each province is like one of Thailand's 77 flavours, something for everyone!!

Of course they like Issan, they like it because it's the poorest place in Thailand and lets them eke out their teachers wages/abysmal pensions just that bit farther.

[Jingthing]

Thinking about this in a personal way, the few people that I have back in the USA would be happy to see me move back and I could tell them all the truth without any shame about the reasons, whatever they may be. Can't predict the future, but if I go back the most likely reasons would be either visa or health related. It won't be about language problems, not where I live. For me living here has been largely motivated by economics and I think while it is not paradise, I have been better off here. But that of course can change.

I also happen to be interested in exploring Cuenca Ecuador some day as a potential place to move from here, rather than back to the USA, but I realize the language issue is a much bigger deal there and I seriously doubt my ability to ever be fluent in Spanish. So if I did move there thinking I could make it there with Spanish, and couldn't, yes I would consider that as a personal failure.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Jingthing

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Consider this scenario.

Not uncommon.

You tell all your friends and family in the west, I'm moving to Thailand to live for life. I'm selling my house, car, etc.

Then you show up again in two years or even ten.

Don't kid yourselves.

To those people, they will think you did not fulfill your intentions, regardless of the loaded word failure or not.

Life is only a failure if you aren't enjoying it, but do nothing to change it.

I wasn't enjoying the US, so I moved here.

I don't consider myself a failure in the US, when it stopped being fun, I moved.

Same with Thailand, when it stops being fun, I'll move somewhere else.

I have a little list (no particular order), of possible future destinations,

India, Nepal, Spain, France, Chile, Peru, Brazil ..........

[hawker9000]

Sorry, but what a pointless topic. Frankly I am not in the least bit interested as to why expats fail. Why would I be?

Talk about pointless! If you think that, then WHY for heaven's sake waste time reading through it, and of all things, actually commenting!? Obviously not everybody's going to take an interest in every TV topic; should they post a comment like yours every time? Sheesh.

Oh, I get it. You just want, or maybe need, to let everybody know you're "above" that. Lame. Very lame.

[ggt]

The problem with Thailand's expat lifers...is they want to continue to believe in the Disney production of the King and I version of Thailand and can not handle the truth...the truth shall set you free...and many expat will relocate once they see it...

[rayjed2]

Very interesting,

I lived in Pattaya for 3 years and loved it, had a cafe Inside Made in Thailand market. Then 9/11 happened and the bottom of my world fell out. Lingered on untill my savings ran out, sold everything and returned to the UK. So did I fail?

My intention was to recoup and return ASP. My Thai wife ( yes me too ) decided otherwise when she discovered free schooling, for her 5year old son, medical care and how easy it was to find work etc, ( she currently has 3 jobs! ) she also decided to not return to Thailand to live. So did I fail somehow.

In December 2013 I buggered off to Cambodia for 2 months, loved it, our relationship had changed, ( for the worse ) and my attitude had changed. So have I failed?

I am 69 in January and I have come to the point that with only about 15+ years of life left should I stay here in the UK, or return to Cambodia.

The point is that everyone is at the mercy of decisions, not just their own, but circumstances, the changing tides of life.

If I go back to Cambodia will it mean that I have failed once again? No, it just means that I am ready for change again, to live where I'm happy and if I return to the UK so what.

[Enoon]

"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."

Samuel Beckett

[Living in a cartoon]

Thinking about this in a personal way, the few people that I have back in the USA would be happy to see me move back and I could tell them all the truth without any shame about the reasons, whatever they may be. Can't predict the future, but if I go back the most likely reasons would be either visa or health related. It won't be about language problems, not where I live. For me living here has been largely motivated by economics and I think while it is not paradise, I have been better off here. But that of course can change.

I also happen to be interested in exploring Cuenca Ecuador some day as a potential place to move from here, rather than back to the USA, but I realize the language issue is a much bigger deal there and I seriously doubt my ability to ever be fluent in Spanish. So if I did move there thinking I could make it there with Spanish, and couldn't, yes I would consider that as a personal failure.

Definitely, get your highly successful lifestyle over to Ecuador. They have internet forums and cheap baht bus type transport. Don't know about that gay stuff though, but as you narrowed it down to that venue I'm sure you have sussed it out. Bye, we'll all miss your insightful restaurant reviews.

Downside is we will all consider you a failure as you will have left Thailand. Other than that, it's a win-win.

[chrisinth]

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I think some expats set themselves up to fail by kidding themselves they're moving to paradise, rather than a real place with its own issues and difficulties.

I think it is the other way round. Some ex-pats believe they are moving to paradise, and then realise they have moved to a real place with its own issues and difficulties...........................

[Alwyn]

Consider this scenario.

Not uncommon.

You tell all your friends and family in the west, I'm moving to Thailand to live for life. I'm selling my house, car, etc.

Then you show up again in two years or even ten.

Don't kid yourselves.

To those people, they will think you did not fulfill your intentions, regardless of the loaded word failure or not.

still not a failure, you would have just changed your mind. You do not know if you like something/somewhere until you have tried it.

+1.

[Jingthing]

Thinking about this in a personal way, the few people that I have back in the USA would be happy to see me move back and I could tell them all the truth without any shame about the reasons, whatever they may be. Can't predict the future, but if I go back the most likely reasons would be either visa or health related. It won't be about language problems, not where I live. For me living here has been largely motivated by economics and I think while it is not paradise, I have been better off here. But that of course can change.

I also happen to be interested in exploring Cuenca Ecuador some day as a potential place to move from here, rather than back to the USA, but I realize the language issue is a much bigger deal there and I seriously doubt my ability to ever be fluent in Spanish. So if I did move there thinking I could make it there with Spanish, and couldn't, yes I would consider that as a personal failure.

Definitely, get your highly successful lifestyle over to Ecuador. They have internet forums and cheap baht bus type transport. Don't know about that gay stuff though, but as you narrowed it down to that venue I'm sure you have sussed it out. Bye, we'll all miss your insightful restaurant reviews.

Downside is we will all consider you a failure as you will have left Thailand. Other than that, it's a win-win.

The odds of me moving to Ecuador are slim. Like I said, I know my strengths and weaknesses and foreign language proficiency is a big weakness. But I am interested enough to consider at least doing an exploratory visit one day but I think I would want to wait until their tram system is finished in Cuenca, which will be in a few years.

Regarding your comment about gay life, actually Cuenca Ecuador has almost no gay nightlife and it is a VERY conservative Catholic dominated culture there. But believe it or not, that isn't a high priority for me either way, as long as people don't shoot me for what I am, so that would rule out retiring in Tehran.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Jingthing