2-year-old boy shoots mother dead in US

newatthis · January 1, 2015

It could have been worse. Somebody could have stolen her purse from the shopping cart, while she was off looking at clothing, and used her gun to kill other people. Which ever way you look at it, she let her gun unattended and was thus irresponsible. We can't have rights without taking responsibility. Sadly, she learnt this lesson the fatal way.

HeijoshinCool · January 1, 2015

You Americans never learn do you ? In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun, if she was in service working as police, guard or a miliary I could accept accidents might happen, but not something like this, where a 2 year old shoot his own mom, only in the US.

But this is a nation where the death penalty is still alive and accepted so no surprise really.....

.

In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun ...

CMNightRider · January 1, 2015

gone shopping with a loaded gun , i mean, even cocked & ready to fire with safety off, she deserved to die for her stupidity

Well, if being stupid were the criteria for deserving to die, there would be a lot less Thai Visa posters around. People do stupid things all the time but it doesn't mean they should die. Hey, live and let live. If you don't like guns, don't own one.

CMNightRider · January 1, 2015

You Americans never learn do you ? In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun, if she was in service working as police, guard or a miliary I could accept accidents might happen, but not something like this, where a 2 year old shoot his own mom, only in the US.

But this is a nation where the death penalty is still alive and accepted so no surprise really.....

.

In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun ...

If you were a white mother living in Detroit or Gary, Indiana, you would think a lot differently. What civilised country are you from?

CMNightRider · January 1, 2015

Gotta love that 2nd amendment aye! LoL

Most U.S. citizens do love the 2nd amendment, as well as the other 32 amendments. What? You say the country you live in doesn't have a constitution? Got to love those American haters, aye!

CMNightRider · January 1, 2015

You Americans never learn do you ? In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun, if she was in service working as police, guard or a miliary I could accept accidents might happen, but not something like this, where a 2 year old shoot his own mom, only in the US.

But this is a nation where the death penalty is still alive and accepted so no surprise really.....

"In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun." Most civilised countries aren't plagued with black street gangs.

What's that you say? Your country doesn't have the death penalty? I sure hope are murders find this out and move there.

A1Str8 · January 1, 2015

Bit early to start murdering people.

simondan · January 1, 2015

You Americans never learn do you ? In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun, if she was in service working as police, guard or a miliary I could accept accidents might happen, but not something like this, where a 2 year old shoot his own mom, only in the US.

But this is a nation where the death penalty is still alive and accepted so no surprise really.....

I'm a little surprised with your post Balo as normally they are intelligent but it seems your anti- gun hysteria has sent you over the edge. We Americans have this silly thing called the Constitution by which we govern ourselves. It guarantees us, as a self-governing people, such silly and unimportant things such as the right to say and write what we think, the freedom to believe In the Flying Spaghetti Monster or not, to be free from arbitrary searches by government agents, being forced to incriminate oneself in a criminal proceeding, and the RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, among other things.
Now, where you come from, these, and the other rights set forth in the Constitution may not be considered important and that is fine. The current nation-state international system allows for all sovereign countries to set forth their own set of laws to govern themselves. But please don't call America, and by extension, Americans "uncivilized" because we have given ourselves rights for which you don't approve. (As an aside, would you care to state which is you presumably civilized country of origin?)

With freedom and rights come responsibilities. The freedom to make mistakes and the freedom to be just plain dumb. Unfortunately, this mother didn't exercise her rights responsibly and tragically both she and her child paid a horrible price. However, this failure is no reason to question any of the enumerated and unenumerated rights given to all Americans as their inalienable rights.

As an aside, it also appears your opposition to the death penalty (again fine but why do you criticism others with a contrary political opinion...sounds a little fascist to me) has also clouded your view of the situation in America to this issue. The death penalty is only in use in about half the states, and the trend over the past decade or so has been for more states to do away with it (a headline from today's NYT is an example http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/01/us/maryland-governor-omalley-commutes-death-sentences-emptying-death-row.html?ref=us ) Another large group of states have the death penalty on the books so to speak but rarely, if ever, carry it out (the largest state, California, being an example). There is also the death penalty for certain Federal crimes, which again is imposed rarely and only for the most serious crimes. Nationwide polls also are closely split on the issue, with the pro side slightly ahead; so the issue is more nuanced that your blanket statement would indicate.

You may or may not agree with capital punishment but the important point is that a free people have decided the issue and not unelected party functionaries or government Eurocrats or party functionaries with no input from the people they supposedly govern.

The rights enshrined in your US Bill of Rights are generally accepted and I doubt Balo is arguing against most of them. But I would join him in attacking your Second Amendment right to bear arms. In this day of highly organised, professional police and military forces (which you didnt have back in 1791), the need for citizens to a 'right' to carry lethal weapons that are many times more powerful and deadly than those in existence when that amendment was accepted is well and truly past.

Do Americans still believe citizens should have the right to armed insurrection against a government they think is tyrannical? Do you think you'd last long against the US military?

Do you still have militias? If you do, do you need to bring your own weapon?

If the right to bear or own weapons such as automatic and semi auto assault rifles, hand guns etc is so intrinsic to the maintenance of democracy (and as you mention it next to the right to free speech and the right to freedom from arbitrary govt interference, you imply it is), how is it that other successful democracies that lack this 'right' such as Australia, NZ, the UK, Germany, most European countries etc dont collapse under the weight of a tyrannical govt over a defenceless public?

Of course you guys are a sovereign nation and you can do as you please. Continue to kill each other in senseless mass killings and tragic incidents such as this one if you think they are worth it to maintain an outdated and antiquated 'right'. Its your right as a sovereign nation to be as cuckoo as you like.

And why do you label pro-gun control opinion as 'hysteria'?

Hysteria is illogical - the desire to control or outright ban the public ownership of assault weapons and the like is emminently and obviously logical (even if you dont agree with it, it is clesrly based on rational argument). Its the emotional and nonsensical arguments in support of basically uncontrolled public ownership of lethal weapons that is hysterical!

But of course you should have the right to express illogical opinions, be hysterical, and believe in fairy stories like the Creation and virgin births etc. Thats a right I think we can all agree on.

CMNightRider · January 1, 2015

You Americans never learn do you ? In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun, if she was in service working as police, guard or a miliary I could accept accidents might happen, but not something like this, where a 2 year old shoot his own mom, only in the US.

But this is a nation where the death penalty is still alive and accepted so no surprise really.....

I'm a little surprised with your post Balo as normally they are intelligent but it seems your anti- gun hysteria has sent you over the edge. We Americans have this silly thing called the Constitution by which we govern ourselves. It guarantees us, as a self-governing people, such silly and unimportant things such as the right to say and write what we think, the freedom to believe In the Flying Spaghetti Monster or not, to be free from arbitrary searches by government agents, being forced to incriminate oneself in a criminal proceeding, and the RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, among other things.
Now, where you come from, these, and the other rights set forth in the Constitution may not be considered important and that is fine. The current nation-state international system allows for all sovereign countries to set forth their own set of laws to govern themselves. But please don't call America, and by extension, Americans "uncivilized" because we have given ourselves rights for which you don't approve. (As an aside, would you care to state which is you presumably civilized country of origin?)

With freedom and rights come responsibilities. The freedom to make mistakes and the freedom to be just plain dumb. Unfortunately, this mother didn't exercise her rights responsibly and tragically both she and her child paid a horrible price. However, this failure is no reason to question any of the enumerated and unenumerated rights given to all Americans as their inalienable rights.

As an aside, it also appears your opposition to the death penalty (again fine but why do you criticism others with a contrary political opinion...sounds a little fascist to me) has also clouded your view of the situation in America to this issue. The death penalty is only in use in about half the states, and the trend over the past decade or so has been for more states to do away with it (a headline from today's NYT is an example http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/01/us/maryland-governor-omalley-commutes-death-sentences-emptying-death-row.html?ref=us ) Another large group of states have the death penalty on the books so to speak but rarely, if ever, carry it out (the largest state, California, being an example). There is also the death penalty for certain Federal crimes, which again is imposed rarely and only for the most serious crimes. Nationwide polls also are closely split on the issue, with the pro side slightly ahead; so the issue is more nuanced that your blanket statement would indicate.

You may or may not agree with capital punishment but the important point is that a free people have decided the issue and not unelected party functionaries or government Eurocrats or party functionaries with no input from the people they supposedly govern.

The rights enshrined in your US Bill of Rights are generally accepted and I doubt Balo is arguing against most of them. But I would join him in attacking your Second Amendment right to bear arms. In this day of highly organised, professional police and military forces (which you didnt have back in 1791), the need for citizens to a 'right' to carry lethal weapons that are many times more powerful and deadly than those in existence when that amendment was accepted is well and truly past.

Do Americans still believe citizens should have the right to armed insurrection against a government they think is tyrannical? Do you think you'd last long against the US military?

Do you still have militias? If you do, do you need to bring your own weapon?

If the right to bear or own weapons such as automatic and semi auto assault rifles, hand guns etc is so intrinsic to the maintenance of democracy (and as you mention it next to the right to free speech and the right to freedom from arbitrary govt interference, you imply it is), how is it that other successful democracies that lack this 'right' such as Australia, NZ, the UK, Germany, most European countries etc dont collapse under the weight of a tyrannical govt over a defenceless public?

Of course you guys are a sovereign nation and you can do as you please. Continue to kill each other in senseless mass killings and tragic incidents such as this one if you think they are worth it to maintain an outdated and antiquated 'right'. Its your right as a sovereign nation to be as cuckoo as you like.

And why do you label pro-gun control opinion as 'hysteria'?

Hysteria is illogical - the desire to control or outright ban the public ownership of assault weapons and the like is emminently and obviously logical (even if you dont agree with it, it is clesrly based on rational argument). Its the emotional and nonsensical arguments in support of basically uncontrolled public ownership of lethal weapons that is hysterical!

But of course you should have the right to express illogical opinions, be hysterical, and believe in fairy stories like the Creation and virgin births etc. Thats a right I think we can all agree on.

"But of course you should have the right to express illogical opinions, be hysterical, and believe in fairy stories like the Creation and virgin births etc"

Wow, besides getting hysterical over America's 2nd amendment, you think the birth of Jesus is a fairy tale.as well

Why would a citizen of another country be so concerned about Americans being able to own firearms? If you enjoy living in a country that doesn't allow their citizens to own firearms, then good for you.

America's founding fathers wanted American citizens armed and skilled in the use of firearms, more for protection against a totalitarian government. Remember Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Mussolini, and of course that little fat guy in North Korea?

timtscott · January 1, 2015

So sick of the NRA and pro gun folks making excuses. United States has became a dangerous place to live precisely because of the Gun lobby funded by Gun manufacturers and supported by gun lovers who see owning a gun as an extension of their manhood.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

balo · January 1, 2015

You Americans never learn do you ? In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun, if she was in service working as police, guard or a miliary I could accept accidents might happen, but not something like this, where a 2 year old shoot his own mom, only in the US.

But this is a nation where the death penalty is still alive and accepted so no surprise really.....

I'm a little surprised with your post Balo as normally they are intelligent but it seems your anti- gun hysteria has sent you over the edge. We Americans have this silly thing called the Constitution by which we govern ourselves. It guarantees us, as a self-governing people, such silly and unimportant things such as the right to say and write what we think, the freedom to believe In the Flying Spaghetti Monster or not, to be free from arbitrary searches by government agents, being forced to incriminate oneself in a criminal proceeding, and the RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, among other things.
Now, where you come from, these, and the other rights set forth in the Constitution may not be considered important and that is fine. The current nation-state international system allows for all sovereign countries to set forth their own set of laws to govern themselves. But please don't call America, and by extension, Americans "uncivilized" because we have given ourselves rights for which you don't approve. (As an aside, would you care to state which is you presumably civilized country of origin?)

With freedom and rights come responsibilities. The freedom to make mistakes and the freedom to be just plain dumb. Unfortunately, this mother didn't exercise her rights responsibly and tragically both she and her child paid a horrible price. However, this failure is no reason to question any of the enumerated and unenumerated rights given to all Americans as their inalienable rights.

As an aside, it also appears your opposition to the death penalty (again fine but why do you criticism others with a contrary political opinion...sounds a little fascist to me) has also clouded your view of the situation in America to this issue. The death penalty is only in use in about half the states, and the trend over the past decade or so has been for more states to do away with it (a headline from today's NYT is an example http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/01/us/maryland-governor-omalley-commutes-death-sentences-emptying-death-row.html?ref=us ) Another large group of states have the death penalty on the books so to speak but rarely, if ever, carry it out (the largest state, California, being an example). There is also the death penalty for certain Federal crimes, which again is imposed rarely and only for the most serious crimes. Nationwide polls also are closely split on the issue, with the pro side slightly ahead; so the issue is more nuanced that your blanket statement would indicate.

You may or may not agree with capital punishment but the important point is that a free people have decided the issue and not unelected party functionaries or government Eurocrats or party functionaries with no input from the people they supposedly govern.

I'm Norwegian , civilians are not allowed to carry guns , I have nothing against you or anyone from the US , just the laws which we Scandinavians think belongs to the stone age or wild west if you like. Same with the death penalty . Even if a lot of people want terrorists like Breivik dead , we give them a life in prison instead. We don't kill people even if they deserve it. Call it being human if you like.

Docno · January 1, 2015

Zero sympathy here for the gun-nut woman who got killed with her own weapon.

The history of gun rights in the US is interesting and reveals some deep truths about American society. The Second Amendment of the US Constitution does not guarantee the rights of individuals to own guns. It guarantees the rights of states to set up and maintain local armies or militias. It had nothing to do with the occasional need to defend yourself from a rattlesnake or whatever. It had everything to do with slavery, however. At the time of the writing of the Constitution (ca. 1787) the slave states were concerned that if the northern states, which were largely anti-slavery, were to control the Congress at some point they might refuse to fund the state militias, which were necessary to protect against slave revolts, a real threat in states whose population might be as much as 40% slave. After all a slave-based economy must depend on violent, police state repression. White males were required to serve in the state militias. In colonial Virginia, for example, at any point in time as much as 10% of the white male population might be serving in the anti-slave militia. Anti-slave meant, effectively, anti-black, since the number of free blacks was small.

So, gun ownership in America arose out of the slave system which was a history of whites arming themselves against blacks upon the theft of whose labor the economy depended. Not surprisingly, some of those attitudes persist today to the point that a black teenager in America is 20 times more likely to be shot by a policeman than a white teenager. Whites in general are remarkably unperturbed by these facts. Pro-gun attitudes in America coincide with less racial tolerance, always especially toward blacks.

I don't know about the dead woman in particular, but a substantial portion of the gun nuts in America are much more worried about black people than rattlesnakes. And having a gun is their response.

It will never change. Even if the laws were to change tomorrow, which won't happen of course, there are 75 guns per one hundred people in America, the most of any society. Guns don't wear out. They will last forever.

You don't know American history at all, sorry. When the Supreme Court of the US makes a ruling about the Constitution, it looks for original intent. It reads the writing of the founders and tries to discern what they were thinking. It is the SC's job to preserve the original intent of the Constitution.

The Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights in the Constitution guarantees the right of the individual to keep and bear arms. You have your opinion of what the militia meant to the founders but the US Supreme Court has a different opinion and has consistently ruled that it applied to the individual and the militia if needed would be private citizens.

I think the US Supreme Court knows a lot more about the founding of the country than you do, and what they rule is law. The settling of the US began about the time Shakespeare died and words and meanings have changed a bit.

The desire of the founders and of the people to keep and bear arms has to do with the people rising up with their arms and running the King of England and his redcoat army off US soil to gain independence. The US still celebrates Independence Day as a national holiday remembering the Declaration of Indepence.

Just let the US run its own country and you run yours. The right of the individual to keep and bear arms is long established law and has been repeatedly affirmed by the Supreme Court. When the SC makes a ruling it also looks at its own former rulings to find precedence. If it finds that it already studied and ruled on something in the Constitution it is loath to reverse itself. So there is a trail back to the beginning.

The short version is that you are wrong.

"You don't know American history at all, sorry. When the Supreme Court of the US makes a ruling about the Constitution, it looks for original intent. It reads the writing of the founders and tries to discern what they were thinking. It is the SC's job to preserve the original intent of the Constitution."

Hmmm, really? So for example, when the 13th amendment to the constitution was made in 1865, the good judges tried to get into the heads of the founding fathers to 'discern what they were thinking'. Well, they must have got it terribly wrong, because 14 of the framers of your constitution were slave-owners (versus the 7 who were not).

The constitution is not the Bible, despite Americans often seeing it as such. It's a document drafted by a small group of (admittedly exceptional) men 300+ years ago when the world was a very different place [Hmmm, timeframe aside - that does sound vaguely biblical]. When your beloved 2nd amendment was added in 1791, these men could not have imagined automatic assault rifles, handguns in handbags, or that one day you could actually print a fully functional gun. So to treat such a document as sacred and unalterable and to presume that you can imagine the intent of men who have been dead for 300 years (when it's hard enough to judge the intent of the person standing next to you) .... well, that's just folly .

outsider · January 1, 2015

She has a permit to carry concealed weapons - and I don't know anything about guns - but shouldn't a gun, carried (albeit concealed) in public, be unloaded and locked? I thought one was supposed to keep the bullets OUTSIDE the gun, no?

Not at all. If she needed the gun it would be instantly. She might walk out to her car and find a carjacker. She might come home, go inside to find a rapist. A large wild dog or other animal might attack her.

If you're going to need a gun, you'll need it "right now." The police don't walk around with unloaded guns.

The sad thing is that she might have been carrying the gun in case she needed to protect the child. She made a serious error in judgement and in action and it cost her her life.

Thanks NeverSure. It is a sad error in judgement indeed. RIP lady.

zydeco · January 1, 2015

I'm Norwegian , civilians are not allowed to carry guns , I have nothing against you or anyone from the US , just the laws which we Scandinavians think belongs to the stone age or wild west if you like. Same with the death penalty . Even if a lot of people want terrorists like Breivik dead , we give them a life in prison instead. We don't kill people even if they deserve it. Call it being human if you like.

We call it being sanctimonious hypocrites, and it gets tiresome. Why don't you take all of Norway's contributions to civilization since "the stone age" and list them for us. They ought to fit on a postage stamp.

Edited January 1, 2015 by zydeco

CMNightRider · January 1, 2015

So sick of the NRA and pro gun folks making excuses. United States has became a dangerous place to live precisely because of the Gun lobby funded by Gun manufacturers and supported by gun lovers who see owning a gun as an extension of their manhood.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

There are only certain parts of some of the bigger cities in America, that can be dangerous. It isn't some gun lobby or gun manufactures that are making our cities dangerous. Street gangs contribute to most of the crime. If you can figure out a way to eliminate the gangs, the rest should be easy.

Saying guns make cities dangerous, is like saying spoons make people fat, pencils misspell words, and cars make people drive drunk. People with criminal minds make our cities dangerous.

What's up with the remark, "gun lovers see owning a gun as an extension of their manhood." Where did you get that idea from? OMG!

zydeco · January 1, 2015

So sick of the NRA and pro gun folks making excuses. United States has became a dangerous place to live precisely because of the Gun lobby funded by Gun manufacturers and supported by gun lovers who see owning a gun as an extension of their manhood.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

There are only certain parts of some of the bigger cities in America, that can be dangerous. It isn't some gun lobby or gun manufactures that are making our cities dangerous. Street gangs contribute to most of the crime. If you can figure out a way to eliminate the gangs, the rest should be easy.

Saying guns make cities dangerous, is like saying spoons make people fat, pencils misspell words, and cars make people drive drunk. People with criminal minds make our cities dangerous.

What's up with the remark, "gun lovers see owning a gun as an extension of their manhood." Where did you get that idea from? OMG!

Good points, all. As for timtscott--where do you live, Tim? If it's in Thailand, I've got some really surprising news for you--there are probably more guns in my Thai village than in my old North Dallas suburb. A year ago, a ladyboy was caught breaking into houses around 4 am. How was he/she caught? My neighbor across the street heard a noise, whipped out his pistol, fired a couple shots (unintentionally missing), and brought the burglar to a stop where the police--whose station is 100 meters around the corner!--arrested him/her. Being without a gun myself here in Thailand, I was only armed with a butcher's knife when someone tried to break into my house around the same time. I came down the stairs and chased them off--but the danger to myself was much more than that to my neighbor who had a pistol. Bottom line: no more burglaries, robberies, or any other crime in the village since then. Even the lady with the yelping dogs brings them inside her property at night, now.

aaacorp · January 1, 2015

You Americans never learn do you ? In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun, if she was in service working as police, guard or a miliary I could accept accidents might happen, but not something like this, where a 2 year old shoot his own mom, only in the US.

But this is a nation where the death penalty is still alive and accepted so no surprise really.....

I'm a little surprised with your post Balo as normally they are intelligent but it seems your anti- gun hysteria has sent you over the edge. We Americans have this silly thing called the Constitution by which we govern ourselves. It guarantees us, as a self-governing people, such silly and unimportant things such as the right to say and write what we think, the freedom to believe In the Flying Spaghetti Monster or not, to be free from arbitrary searches by government agents, being forced to incriminate oneself in a criminal proceeding, and the RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, among other things.
Now, where you come from, these, and the other rights set forth in the Constitution may not be considered important and that is fine. The current nation-state international system allows for all sovereign countries to set forth their own set of laws to govern themselves. But please don't call America, and by extension, Americans "uncivilized" because we have given ourselves rights for which you don't approve. (As an aside, would you care to state which is you presumably civilized country of origin?)

With freedom and rights come responsibilities. The freedom to make mistakes and the freedom to be just plain dumb. Unfortunately, this mother didn't exercise her rights responsibly and tragically both she and her child paid a horrible price. However, this failure is no reason to question any of the enumerated and unenumerated rights given to all Americans as their inalienable rights.

As an aside, it also appears your opposition to the death penalty (again fine but why do you criticism others with a contrary political opinion...sounds a little fascist to me) has also clouded your view of the situation in America to this issue. The death penalty is only in use in about half the states, and the trend over the past decade or so has been for more states to do away with it (a headline from today's NYT is an example http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/01/us/maryland-governor-omalley-commutes-death-sentences-emptying-death-row.html?ref=us ) Another large group of states have the death penalty on the books so to speak but rarely, if ever, carry it out (the largest state, California, being an example). There is also the death penalty for certain Federal crimes, which again is imposed rarely and only for the most serious crimes. Nationwide polls also are closely split on the issue, with the pro side slightly ahead; so the issue is more nuanced that your blanket statement would indicate.

You may or may not agree with capital punishment but the important point is that a free people have decided the issue and not unelected party functionaries or government Eurocrats or party functionaries with no input from the people they supposedly govern.

You keep saying "free people"...i think you missed a couples of years didn't you?

- Freedom of speech? speak about this to the wisthleblowers

-freedom to elect someone else than G.W. bush? yes but bush is still elected

- A majority of American people rejected the last "war on terror" the government gave them a big finger and sent young troops to steal oil, not give freedom

- People locked up un Guantanamo without trial and sometimes wrongly accused

- Tortures by the CIA

- Ask about the native ameicans (the indians) how they feel about their freedom?

.. want more?

USA is corrupted by spin doctors and corporations which only goal is to make money. They choose who you have to vote for and why you go to war...if this is freedom then you have a strange view of freedom...

You may love guns and capital punishment but your freedom to wear a gun threaten the freedom of other people to not have a bullet by accident or drunken reaction or road rage....

slipperylobster · January 1, 2015

They have had recent car accidents and plane accidents. I move that we ban these vehicles of death also.

Nice idea..but I doubt we can keep guns away from the bad guys, by making them illegal. Not to mention that you get a snowball's chance in hell of defending yourself against bad guys. Takes the police 20 minutes or longer to come to the rescue, where I live..and by that time, if you operate a store or gas station, you would be already dying from lead poisoning.

Guns will always be a threat.. Management is the key.

Edited January 1, 2015 by slipperylobster

watcharacters · January 1, 2015

I thought he was just a precocious 18 month old?

mania · January 1, 2015

Do Americans still believe citizens should have the right to armed insurrection against a government they think is tyrannical?

Yes

I believe this was always the main intent behind it

Do you think you'd last long against the US military?

Not I but...

Yes I think they would because who if not the sons & daughters of citizens is this military made of?

Hopefully such a time never exists but if it did it is highly unlikely much of the military would stand with tyranny

Edited January 1, 2015 by mania

zydeco · January 1, 2015

You keep saying "free people"...i think you missed a couples of years didn't you?

- Freedom of speech? speak about this to the wisthleblowers

-freedom to elect someone else than G.W. bush? yes but bush is still elected

- A majority of American people rejected the last "war on terror" the government gave them a big finger and sent young troops to steal oil, not give freedom

- People locked up un Guantanamo without trial and sometimes wrongly accused

- Tortures by the CIA

- Ask about the native ameicans (the indians) how they feel about their freedom?

.. want more?

USA is corrupted by spin doctors and corporations which only goal is to make money. They choose who you have to vote for and why you go to war...if this is freedom then you have a strange view of freedom...

You may love guns and capital punishment but your freedom to wear a gun threaten the freedom of other people to not have a bullet by accident or drunken reaction or road rage....

- Ask about the native ameicans (the indians) how they feel about their freedom?

I'm native American, Cherokee and Choctaw. You can ask me.

aaacorp · January 1, 2015

You Americans never learn do you ? In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun, if she was in service working as police, guard or a miliary I could accept accidents might happen, but not something like this, where a 2 year old shoot his own mom, only in the US.

But this is a nation where the death penalty is still alive and accepted so no surprise really.....

I'm a little surprised with your post Balo as normally they are intelligent but it seems your anti- gun hysteria has sent you over the edge. We Americans have this silly thing called the Constitution by which we govern ourselves. It guarantees us, as a self-governing people, such silly and unimportant things such as the right to say and write what we think, the freedom to believe In the Flying Spaghetti Monster or not, to be free from arbitrary searches by government agents, being forced to incriminate oneself in a criminal proceeding, and the RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, among other things.
Now, where you come from, these, and the other rights set forth in the Constitution may not be considered important and that is fine. The current nation-state international system allows for all sovereign countries to set forth their own set of laws to govern themselves. But please don't call America, and by extension, Americans "uncivilized" because we have given ourselves rights for which you don't approve. (As an aside, would you care to state which is you presumably civilized country of origin?)

With freedom and rights come responsibilities. The freedom to make mistakes and the freedom to be just plain dumb. Unfortunately, this mother didn't exercise her rights responsibly and tragically both she and her child paid a horrible price. However, this failure is no reason to question any of the enumerated and unenumerated rights given to all Americans as their inalienable rights.

As an aside, it also appears your opposition to the death penalty (again fine but why do you criticism others with a contrary political opinion...sounds a little fascist to me) has also clouded your view of the situation in America to this issue. The death penalty is only in use in about half the states, and the trend over the past decade or so has been for more states to do away with it (a headline from today's NYT is an example http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/01/us/maryland-governor-omalley-commutes-death-sentences-emptying-death-row.html?ref=us ) Another large group of states have the death penalty on the books so to speak but rarely, if ever, carry it out (the largest state, California, being an example). There is also the death penalty for certain Federal crimes, which again is imposed rarely and only for the most serious crimes. Nationwide polls also are closely split on the issue, with the pro side slightly ahead; so the issue is more nuanced that your blanket statement would indicate.

You may or may not agree with capital punishment but the important point is that a free people have decided the issue and not unelected party functionaries or government Eurocrats or party functionaries with no input from the people they supposedly govern.

You keep saying "free people"...i think you missed a couples of years didn't you?

- Freedom of speech? speak about this to the wisthleblowers

-freedom to elect someone else than G.W. bush? yes but bush is still elected

- A majority of American people rejected the last "war on terror" the government gave them a big finger and sent young troops to steal oil, not give freedom

- People locked up un Guantanamo without trial and sometimes wrongly accused

- Tortures by the CIA

- Ask about the native ameicans (the indians) how they feel about their freedom?

.. want more?

USA is corrupted by spin doctors and corporations which only goal is to make money. They choose who you have to vote for and why you go to war...if this is freedom then you have a strange view of freedom...

You may love guns and capital punishment but your freedom to wear a gun threaten the freedom of other people to not have a bullet by accident or drunken reaction or road rage....

...lol

as if your country is better. pin head.

Did I ever said anything about other countries, mine particulary...but in term of criminality, freedom of speesh and toddlers killing her mum with a gun, or student killing classmates, or going into war on false accusations of WMD or voting the worse law in the world "stand your grounds"..yes it is

Edited January 1, 2015 by aaacorp

MJP · January 1, 2015

^^Oh come on, lets ease up on bashing the US now.

Edited January 1, 2015 by MJP

LuckyLew · January 1, 2015

Packing heat to go to walmart, what a great country

Scott · January 1, 2015

Inflammatory posts removed.

rijb · January 1, 2015

Packing heat to go to walmart, what a great country

"packing heat" ? You've seen too many gangster movies.

How about a musical instead?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QtM7X0xYN8#t=79

Edited January 1, 2015 by rijb

balo · January 1, 2015

I'm Norwegian , civilians are not allowed to carry guns , I have nothing against you or anyone from the US , just the laws which we Scandinavians think belongs to the stone age or wild west if you like. Same with the death penalty . Even if a lot of people want terrorists like Breivik dead , we give them a life in prison instead. We don't kill people even if they deserve it. Call it being human if you like.

We call it being sanctimonious hypocrites, and it gets tiresome. Why don't you take all of Norway's contributions to civilization since "the stone age" and list them for us. They ought to fit on a postage stamp.

I think its better to focus on the world today than the past , don't you think ?

Its a fact that the gun laws are more stricter in most European countries, we belong to the western world, also like to include the US , and we should learn by our mistakes, but still so many differences between EU and the US. Every country struggle with crime but incidents like this, the school shootings that we read about in the news (I stopped counting, how many schools the last 10 years?) , that happens in the US. This is all because of your gun laws.

.

OMGImInPattaya · January 2, 2015

You Americans never learn do you ? In most civilized countries a mother would not be allowed to carry an armed gun, if she was in service working as police, guard or a miliary I could accept accidents might happen, but not something like this, where a 2 year old shoot his own mom, only in the US.

But this is a nation where the death penalty is still alive and accepted so no surprise really.....

I'm a little surprised with your post Balo as normally they are intelligent but it seems your anti- gun hysteria has sent you over the edge. We Americans have this silly thing called the Constitution by which we govern ourselves. It guarantees us, as a self-governing people, such silly and unimportant things such as the right to say and write what we think, the freedom to believe In the Flying Spaghetti Monster or not, to be free from arbitrary searches by government agents, being forced to incriminate oneself in a criminal proceeding, and the RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, among other things.
Now, where you come from, these, and the other rights set forth in the Constitution may not be considered important and that is fine. The current nation-state international system allows for all sovereign countries to set forth their own set of laws to govern themselves. But please don't call America, and by extension, Americans "uncivilized" because we have given ourselves rights for which you don't approve. (As an aside, would you care to state which is you presumably civilized country of origin?)

With freedom and rights come responsibilities. The freedom to make mistakes and the freedom to be just plain dumb. Unfortunately, this mother didn't exercise her rights responsibly and tragically both she and her child paid a horrible price. However, this failure is no reason to question any of the enumerated and unenumerated rights given to all Americans as their inalienable rights.

As an aside, it also appears your opposition to the death penalty (again fine but why do you criticism others with a contrary political opinion...sounds a little fascist to me) has also clouded your view of the situation in America to this issue. The death penalty is only in use in about half the states, and the trend over the past decade or so has been for more states to do away with it (a headline from today's NYT is an example http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/01/us/maryland-governor-omalley-commutes-death-sentences-emptying-death-row.html?ref=us ) Another large group of states have the death penalty on the books so to speak but rarely, if ever, carry it out (the largest state, California, being an example). There is also the death penalty for certain Federal crimes, which again is imposed rarely and only for the most serious crimes. Nationwide polls also are closely split on the issue, with the pro side slightly ahead; so the issue is more nuanced that your blanket statement would indicate.

You may or may not agree with capital punishment but the important point is that a free people have decided the issue and not unelected party functionaries or government Eurocrats or party functionaries with no input from the people they supposedly govern.

I'm Norwegian , civilians are not allowed to carry guns , I have nothing against you or anyone from the US , just the laws which we Scandinavians think belongs to the stone age or wild west if you like. Same with the death penalty . Even if a lot of people want terrorists like Breivik dead , we give them a life in prison instead. We don't kill people even if they deserve it. Call it being human if you like.

Anders Behring Breivik...nuff said.

I suspected as much...even your perfect global-warming enabling fossil fuel subsidized welfare state isn't perfect. I might also make an argument that your perfect little Norway, all 5 million of you or so, are acting as much or more uncivilized than the United States as Norway is enabling the possible future destruction of a human habitable earth but I won't. The point is no country is perfect and that all have social, political, and economic policies that could be tweaked to make more humane societies..but throwing around terms like "uncivilized" here and there is not very productive.

Edited January 2, 2015 by OMGImInPattaya

Scott · January 2, 2015

Please stay on topic.

Commenting on the topic of the thread is acceptable. Bashing of any country is not permitted.

GentlemanJim · January 2, 2015

I love this, especially being an Aussie:

http://youtu.be/fP3HJVp3n9c

Bang on the money. You have cost me 2 hours of my life because I started watching all his other gigs. Very funny and very true.

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