12 dead in attack on Paris newspaper; France goes on alert

[JDGRUEN]

canman:

my logic is mathematical, and what you call opinion is a cognitive frame based on worldwide travelling and communication.

Both paradigms can be proved to be wrong, even logic according to Goedel.

I know that, and I'm trying to muddle through with rhythmic cybernetics. That's all.

Gibberish

[JDGRUEN]

Why so totalitarian?

Remember people can act in different roles, eg.

As a believer, I go to my mosque or church (or whatsoever)

As a worker, I go to my working place.

As being dark or pale skinned, I attend my ethnic entertainment.

And as a citizen, I'm part of multicultural Europe.

More Gibberish --

[Morch]

Another EU neighbor country of France has fallout from the 'tolerant' Muslims allowed into the country... with bloody consequences...

Christian couple beaten severely by Muslim 'youth'

http://eaglerising.com/13804/christian-couple-beaten-gang-muslim-youth/

This happened on Christmas, think it was mentioned a couple of times on other topics.

[JDGRUEN]

Suggesting that Muslim self-imposed 'No Go Zones' in France and other places are 'ghettos' of the classic diffinition is ridiculous ... Muslims really do 'self-impose' their isolation - it has a purpose. It is not done as a result of an economic disparity - where the Muslims cannot leave due to cost of living. In short Muslims just do not want anyone else - infidels to be living in their ideologically blocked off sanctuary. And it is done to stake out claims to territories and then further expand them as each year goes by. In this way Muslims act similar to 'squatters' - move in and displace who ever is in the homestead... little by little. It is not difficult to see that planned Muslim self-imposed 'ghetto' creation is growing all over Europe where it is allowed and not resisted. The planned end result is to push everyone else out.

Your Muslim colored glasses are distorting your vision.

I have previously posted on many occasions proof that so called Muslim no go areas in the UK are a myth and that the tiny minority of Muslims who try to impose them are dealt with under the law; arrested, tried and if found guilty usually imprisoned. Such as Muslim vigilantes jailed for 'sharia law' attacks in London

These so called no go areas are also a myth in France and elsewhere in Europe.

For example: Debunking the Myth of Muslim-Only Zones in Major European Cities

"That's pretty funny," says Hait Abbas, a non-practicing Muslim who runs a wine shop in a Paris neighborhood among those identified by Peterson as a no-go zone. Far from being Muslim-dominated, the neighborhood near the Gare du Nord train station bustles with Italian delis, African hair-braiding shops, and Chinese massage parlors. If it's governed by Islamic law, Abbas says, "I guess I better cut my hand off."

Yet the gullible still hold to the myth propounded by those with a racist, anti immigration agenda such as Nigel Farage, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Your posts are hardly on the level of 'Proof' - more over they are distortions and fabrications - an effort to make unreality into reality...

[White Christmas13]

Two suspects killed in terror raid in Belgium

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/belgian-anti-terror-raid-two-deaths-one-arrest-in-the-eastern-town-of-verviers/story-fnh81p7g-1227186562719

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed. Please refrain from making personal comments directed at other posters.

[tartempion]

Suggesting that Muslim self-imposed 'No Go Zones' in France and other places are 'ghettos' of the classic diffinition is ridiculous ... Muslims really do 'self-impose' their isolation - it has a purpose. It is not done as a result of an economic disparity - where the Muslims cannot leave due to cost of living. In short Muslims just do not want anyone else - infidels to be living in their ideologically blocked off sanctuary. And it is done to stake out claims to territories and then further expand them as each year goes by. In this way Muslims act similar to 'squatters' - move in and displace who ever is in the homestead... little by little. It is not difficult to see that planned Muslim self-imposed 'ghetto' creation is growing all over Europe where it is allowed and not resisted. The planned end result is to push everyone else out.

Your Muslim colored glasses are distorting your vision.

I have previously posted on many occasions proof that so called Muslim no go areas in the UK are a myth and that the tiny minority of Muslims who try to impose them are dealt with under the law; arrested, tried and if found guilty usually imprisoned. Such as Muslim vigilantes jailed for 'sharia law' attacks in London

These so called no go areas are also a myth in France and elsewhere in Europe.

For example: Debunking the Myth of Muslim-Only Zones in Major European Cities

"That's pretty funny," says Hait Abbas, a non-practicing Muslim who runs a wine shop in a Paris neighborhood among those identified by Peterson as a no-go zone. Far from being Muslim-dominated, the neighborhood near the Gare du Nord train station bustles with Italian delis, African hair-braiding shops, and Chinese massage parlors. If it's governed by Islamic law, Abbas says, "I guess I better cut my hand off."

Yet the gullible still hold to the myth propounded by those with a racist, anti immigration agenda such as Nigel Farage, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Whatever you say 7by7, there are several quarters in Brussels where i no longer wander.

There was a Greek restaurant near place St Josse where I came once a month.

The area surely turned Muslim, the restaurant was gone and walking in an area where 95% of people look Muslim is not my cup of tea, I seemed to be the allochtone in my own town. Brussels has several such quarters, increasing. Obviously I am not welcome there, same as in some areas of Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit...

[Steely Dan]

Suggesting that Muslim self-imposed 'No Go Zones' in France and other places are 'ghettos' of the classic diffinition is ridiculous ... Muslims really do 'self-impose' their isolation - it has a purpose. It is not done as a result of an economic disparity - where the Muslims cannot leave due to cost of living. In short Muslims just do not want anyone else - infidels to be living in their ideologically blocked off sanctuary. And it is done to stake out claims to territories and then further expand them as each year goes by. In this way Muslims act similar to 'squatters' - move in and displace who ever is in the homestead... little by little. It is not difficult to see that planned Muslim self-imposed 'ghetto' creation is growing all over Europe where it is allowed and not resisted. The planned end result is to push everyone else out.

Your Muslim colored glasses are distorting your vision.

I have previously posted on many occasions proof that so called Muslim no go areas in the UK are a myth and that the tiny minority of Muslims who try to impose them are dealt with under the law; arrested, tried and if found guilty usually imprisoned. Such as Muslim vigilantes jailed for 'sharia law' attacks in London

These so called no go areas are also a myth in France and elsewhere in Europe.

For example: Debunking the Myth of Muslim-Only Zones in Major European Cities

"That's pretty funny," says Hait Abbas, a non-practicing Muslim who runs a wine shop in a Paris neighborhood among those identified by Peterson as a no-go zone. Far from being Muslim-dominated, the neighborhood near the Gare du Nord train station bustles with Italian delis, African hair-braiding shops, and Chinese massage parlors. If it's governed by Islamic law, Abbas says, "I guess I better cut my hand off."

Yet the gullible still hold to the myth propounded by those with a racist, anti immigration agenda such as Nigel Farage, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Whatever you say 7by7, there are several quarters in Brussels where i no longer wander.

There was a Greek restaurant near place St Josse where I came once a month.

The area surely turned Muslim, the restaurant was gone and walking in an area where 95% of people look Muslim is not my cup of tea, I seemed to be the allochtone in my own town. Brussels has several such quarters, increasing. Obviously I am not welcome there, same as in some areas of Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit...

I lived in Brussels from 93 to 95 in Ixelles next to St Gilles. My employer warned me not to mention I was Jewish. I have many anecdotes from that time including my apartment burgled twice and two armed muggings on people I knew, the police didn't even seem interested to file a report till they were told the muggers had guns. Edited January 16, 2015 by Steely Dan

[micmichd]

Why so totalitarian?

Remember people can act in different roles, eg.

As a believer, I go to my mosque or church (or whatsoever)

As a worker, I go to my working place.

As being dark or pale skinned, I attend my ethnic entertainment.

And as a citizen, I'm part of multicultural Europe.

More Gibberish --

It's called organic solidarity according to French sociologist Emile Durkheim and many more, and your posthumous insult to Ahmed the policeman who died for your rights to post.

[micmichd]

canman:

my logic is mathematical, and what you call opinion is a cognitive frame based on worldwide travelling and communication?

Both paradigms can be proved to be wrong, even logic according to Goedel.

I know that, and I'm trying to muddle through with rhythmic cybernetics. That's all.

Gibberish

Cognitive psychology and logic.

[micmichd]

Somebody used the word disparity, you can break that down to Structual Violence following peace researcher Johan Galtung from Norway.

There is not only disparity between Western and Eastern cultures there is also disparity within these cultures. Nativesfrom Saudi Arabia or the Emirates don't need any care from Europe at all, they have their inner-state welfare system for their natives. But both, Arabic oil states and European nations have the labour immigrants to work for their welfare, commonly from Pakistan.

An ex-officer from Pakistan told me they have a project in Pakistan where they plant a tree and give your name if you take sponsorship for one human being in Pakistan, eg a child. If you do so, you will be kind of immortal in the East, and as you would not wish to commit social suicide, you will not ask for a revenge for terroristic attacks on a religion anymore.

If you really want to blame a whole community for terroristic attacks, then please don't go for 'squatters', put the blame on the small minority from Saudi Arabia aka Al Qaida. Many Moslems will be glad to get rid of these self-declared caretakers.

[micmichd]

If you see a god, what do you see? An old man with a beard, a texture, a monument for him?

I sometimes look at my private goddess, and I will not publish any photos from her.

I see a beautiful young lady in front of some European monuments. And I see the same lady all covered up in a green dress looking like a burka to most, you can only see her eyes. She's Buddhist, an she wears her dress that looks like a symbol of terror to many only for one reason: to protect her body and her silk-like skin from the burning sun. Maybe a good dressing idea for Moslems, too, and completely rational from European standards.

[Jingthing]

Check out how God is portrayed in the recent crappy film Exodus ... banned in some predictable countries.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JockPieandBeans]

I guess this numbnuts did not get the memo that it was nothing to do with Islam !

A Pakistani cleric has held a ceremony in honour of Said and Cherif Kouachi, the brothers suspected of the Charlie Hebdo massacre, NBC News reports.

"They are heroes of Islam. They laid down their lives but eliminated those published caricatures of our Prophet Muhammad," Allama Pir Mohammad Chishti said after reading funeral prayers.

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-01-13/ceremony-in-pakistan-honours-charlie-hebdo-suspects/

[JockPieandBeans]

40 people - out of how many millions of Muslims in Pakistan?

And don't forget - Peshawar is Pashtoonistan, the heartland of an organization once sponsored by the CIA: Taliban.

Think you missed ( ignored ) the important part.

"They are heroes of Islam.

I'm pretty sure most people have been waxing lyrical about How it is NOTHING to do with ISLAM

[Mosha]

40 people - out of how many millions of Muslims in Pakistan?

And don't forget - Peshawar is Pashtoonistan, the heartland of an organization once sponsored by the CIA: Taliban.

BBC is reporting clashes between protests about the French blasphemers and police.

[7by7]

Farage is fond of parading his few immigrant supporters in front of the press; but read his party's literature.

.

Perhaps you would like to give us your opinion of this gentleman.

http://w.w.w.mirror.co...m-tells-4970498

Which gentleman?

That link just takes me to the OP of this topic.

[7by7]

40 people - out of how many millions of Muslims in Pakistan?

And don't forget - Peshawar is Pashtoonistan, the heartland of an organization once sponsored by the CIA: Taliban.

Think you missed ( ignored ) the important part.

"They are heroes of Islam.

I'm pretty sure most people have been waxing lyrical about How it is NOTHING to do with ISLAM

That you, certain other posters on TV and some idiot cleric says it has does not mean it is true!

You take the few fanatics like this idiot seriously, yet ignore the Muslim governments, Muslim organisations and the multitude of individual Muslims on social media who have all publicly condemned this atrocity.

Will you come back with your usual pathetic response that they are all lying?

[7by7]

That people have chosen not to wander in certain areas of some cities because those areas now have a large Muslim population does not make those areas 'no go' areas to anyone else; certainly not to the police or other civil authorities.

Steely Dan, was the person who mugged you Muslim? I assume not, as you surely would have said so if they were!

I was violently attacked in the street a couple of years ago. My attacker was white and not a Muslim, the policeman who arrested him was Muslim. Make of that what you will.

That you refuse to accept legitimate reports from legitimate news media about the arrest, trial and imprisonment of those who attempt to impose Sharia law as evidence that these 'no go' areas are a myth; that you refuse to accept the French government's word that the 751 Sensitive Urban Zones are areas of urban renewal, not 'no go' areas merely shows your prejudice and that you will ignore all the evidence which shows that prejudice to be as ignorant as it is.

Yes, I did say earlier that 'no go' zones were not the subject of this topic and were being discussed elsewhere; but when people post such utter, ignorant garbage in this topic I felt the need to show that garbage for what it is.

That those people cannot respond other than by making such remarks shows, again, that their belief in the myth of 'no go' zones is based on nothing but ignorance and prejudice.

[Steely Dan]

40 people - out of how many millions of Muslims in Pakistan?

And don't forget - Peshawar is Pashtoonistan, the heartland of an organization once sponsored by the CIA: Taliban.

Think you missed ( ignored ) the important part.

"They are heroes of Islam.
I'm pretty sure most people have been waxing lyrical about How it is NOTHING to do with ISLAM

How right you are.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Scott

[7by7]

40 people - out of how many millions of Muslims in Pakistan?

And don't forget - Peshawar is Pashtoonistan, the heartland of an organization once sponsored by the CIA: Taliban.

Think you missed ( ignored ) the important part.

"They are heroes of Islam.

I'm pretty sure most people have been waxing lyrical about How it is NOTHING to do with ISLAM

How right you are.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N46mIHEGHN0

Ah yes, Pat Condell; you do like your Islamaphobic sources.

To expand on my earlier comment: like JP&B you take the few fanatics like this idiot cleric seriously, swallow whole the pony put out by your favourite Islamaphobes like Condell, gates of Vienna, the Gatestone Institute etc.; yet ignore the Muslim governments, Muslim organisations and the multitude of individual Muslims on social media who have all publicly condemned this atrocity.

(Edited to include quote of previous post as gone over page)

Edited January 16, 2015 by 7by7

[JockPieandBeans]

40 people - out of how many millions of Muslims in Pakistan?

And don't forget - Peshawar is Pashtoonistan, the heartland of an organization once sponsored by the CIA: Taliban.

Think you missed ( ignored ) the important part.

"They are heroes of Islam.

I'm pretty sure most people have been waxing lyrical about How it is NOTHING to do with ISLAM

That you, certain other posters on TV and some idiot cleric says it has does not mean it is true!

You take the few fanatics like this idiot seriously, yet ignore the Muslim governments, Muslim organisations and the multitude of individual Muslims on social media who have all publicly condemned this atrocity.

Will you come back with your usual pathetic response that they are all lying?

My dear man, has the red mist and steam from your ears clouded your vision ? I understand that your love of Pakistan is above and beyond devotion. And you probably want a Fatwa issued on me and others.

BUT. I take ALL fanatics seriously.

So lets have a look at your logic.

A few fanatics ? Which few would that be ?

The estimated 40000 or 50000 in Iraq and Syria !

The 10's of Thousands of Al Kebab and Procol Haram !

The lone wolf nutjobs around the Western World ! They have caused quite a stir in Europe in the last 4 weeks alone !

The list is endless.

Where have I said anyone is lying ? The article speaks for itself. I do not need to call anyone a liar. Actions speak louder than words.

[7by7]

JP&B

Have you deliberately missed the point?

Edited January 16, 2015 by 7by7

[JockPieandBeans]

JP&B

Have you deliberately missed the point?

No, but appears that you have.

Actions speak louder than words. The only actions I am seeing is coming from 10's of Thousands of Islamic nutjobs around the world.

Edited to add.

You accused me of calling people liars. Back up your assertion. Put up or shut up.

Edited January 16, 2015 by JockPieandBeans

[7by7]

The point you have (deliberately?) missed; the simple fact you have ignored is that the vast majority of the Muslim world do not support these terrorists.

You use one cleric's words as proof that they do.

The terrorists, those you call 'nutjobs' do not represent Islam; except in their own perverted minds.

The governments, organisations and individuals who have condemned the terrorist do represent Islam; even though one may not agree with all the policies of the governments concerned.

I will look up the previous posts where you have called Muslims who condemn terrorists liars and get back to you.

[JockPieandBeans]

The point you have (deliberately?) missed; the simple fact you have ignored is that the vast majority of the Muslim world do not support these terrorists.

You use one cleric's words as proof that they do.

The terrorists, those you call 'nutjobs' do not represent Islam; except in their own perverted minds.

The governments, organisations and individuals who have condemned the terrorist do represent Islam; even though one may not agree with all the policies of the governments concerned.

I will look up the previous posts where you have called Muslims who condemn terrorists liars and get back to you.

I did not miss any point. That was a point that you invented.

My point was that the cleric, who I linked to, called them Hero's of Islam. I never said that his words were speaking for the vast majority of Muslims, as you seem to think.

Whether these nutjobs represent islam or not, is immaterial. They CLAIM to represent Islam.

They can condemn all they want. I repeat, actions speak louder than words. I can certainly see where the action is coming from and getting repeated with alarming regularity.

Anyway, its Friday, why are you not at the Mosque ?

[7by7]

Actions?

Like the Arab governments fighting ISIS you mean?

Like Algeria providing intelligence to Europe on suspected terrorists?

Like individual Muslims informing on family members who may be travelling to Syria to fight (yes, it happens)?

Your implication was clear; no matter how much you now try to back peddle.

40 people - out of how many millions of Muslims in Pakistan?

And don't forget - Peshawar is Pashtoonistan, the heartland of an organization once sponsored by the CIA: Taliban.

Think you missed ( ignored ) the important part.

"They are heroes of Islam.

The important part is not what the cleric said; the important part is how few people he represents!

As micmichd says, he represents an extremely tiny minority in Pakistan.

Yet you post as if he represents the entire Muslim world!

That is the point you (deliberately?) missed.

BTW, I'm not at the mosque because I am not a Muslim. I wont be at the synagogue tomorrow because I am not Jewish. I wont be at the church on Sunday because I am not Christian. I may be at the Thai Buddhist temple in the near future; but only because my wife is Buddhist; I'm not but she likes me to go with her.

Edited January 16, 2015 by 7by7

[7by7]

Arab governments are providing more than a token gesture; maybe you should read some proper news.

See my response in the relevant topic about you post saying that Algerian forces attacking Islamist militants is, in your view, supporting those militants.

How many Muslims have informed on people attempting to join ISIS. I don't know, and you don't either; but I suggest it's more than 1 or 2.

Terrorist are committing 'bad actions' and these do get more press than the 'good actions.'

But despite your and your fellow Islamaphobes assertions; those committing the 'bad actions' do not represent Islam nor the overwhelming majority of Muslims.

Unlike you, I do not belong to the "All cows are animals, therefore all animals are cows' brigade.

I wont be apologising for calling you a liar; because I didn't.

Edited January 16, 2015 by 7by7

[Morch]

40 people - out of how many millions of Muslims in Pakistan?

And don't forget - Peshawar is Pashtoonistan, the heartland of an organization once sponsored by the CIA: Taliban.

Think you missed ( ignored ) the important part.

"They are heroes of Islam.

I'm pretty sure most people have been waxing lyrical about How it is NOTHING to do with ISLAM

That you, certain other posters on TV and some idiot cleric says it has does not mean it is true!

You take the few fanatics like this idiot seriously, yet ignore the Muslim governments, Muslim organisations and the multitude of individual Muslims on social media who have all publicly condemned this atrocity.

Will you come back with your usual pathetic response that they are all lying?

The terrorists do not represent all Muslims, there are surely Muslims who publicly said as much.

There are, obviously, Muslims who feel otherwise - seeing the terrorists as heroes, or if not that, as justified in their actions.

The claim that the terrorists represent a tiny minority of the Muslim world rests upon Muslim public condemnation of the attack on social media (mostly by Muslims living in the West), by Muslim community leaders (again, mostly living in the West), and by Muslim governments. How much do Muslim heads of states represent the public sentiment in their countries would be a good question.

Denying that there is more than a tiny bit of support for the terrorists actions is not supported by ongoing news nor by reactions to similar previous events. The Muslims living in the West could be more vocal or more open in their condemnation, but how much do they represent the Muslim World? Second (or third) generation Muslim immigrants in Europe, which are claimed to be integrated in Western society, do not necessarily possess the same views as Muslims living in the Third World (and if they do... well, that wasn't the point of integration).

Asking people to believe that there are lone-wolf attacks, supported by single demented religious figures, or that they are a tiny tiny minority supported by a miniscule segment of Muslims - just does not fit that well with reality. People may indeed have very different personal experiences as far as interaction with Muslims go. It would greatly depend on location, circumstances and attitudes. While these are good and fine, there are things happening outside the sphere of one's immediate experience which may not conform to the image generated by one's own experience. Wonder what all these protests ought to be called, guess "lone gatherings" would be a bit too much to swallow.

Can't have it both ways - if it is important that Muslim community leaders condemn the attack, why are we asked to disregard a community leader saying the opposite? Is his view less representative because he's a local religious authority? Because he does not live in the West? Or, perhaps, because his view does not go along with the program?

I would actually say that the majority of Muslims, in as much as this is even something tangible, are silent. Partially because nobody asked them and partially because the issues are less clear cut from their point of view. Not placing much trust in people attempting to speak on behalf of all Muslims, especially when they are not even Muslim themselves.

[Morch]

That people have chosen not to wander in certain areas of some cities because those areas now have a large Muslim population does not make those areas 'no go' areas to anyone else; certainly not to the police or other civil authorities.

Steely Dan, was the person who mugged you Muslim? I assume not, as you surely would have said so if they were!

I was violently attacked in the street a couple of years ago. My attacker was white and not a Muslim, the policeman who arrested him was Muslim. Make of that what you will.

That you refuse to accept legitimate reports from legitimate news media about the arrest, trial and imprisonment of those who attempt to impose Sharia law as evidence that these 'no go' areas are a myth; that you refuse to accept the French government's word that the 751 Sensitive Urban Zones are areas of urban renewal, not 'no go' areas merely shows your prejudice and that you will ignore all the evidence which shows that prejudice to be as ignorant as it is.

Yes, I did say earlier that 'no go' zones were not the subject of this topic and were being discussed elsewhere; but when people post such utter, ignorant garbage in this topic I felt the need to show that garbage for what it is.

That those people cannot respond other than by making such remarks shows, again, that their belief in the myth of 'no go' zones is based on nothing but ignorance and prejudice.

The issue with enforcement of Sharia law (or by extension of any other related issue which came up) is not really with it being actually enforced. That the attempts were, for the most part, a failure is almost irrelevant. The main point is that there are repeated and persistent efforts to promote notions which do not conform with Western values and culture. I could be wrong, but cannot offhand think of a similar behavior by another immigrant/minority group that reaches the same scope or is similarly aggressive (not necessarily violent) when it comes to having its way.

My impression is that a lot of the bad sentiment regarding this stems from the perceived lack of manners. Not the sort of behavior expected from newcomers. Seems like most expected Muslims to be grateful for the chance to live in the West (which for the majority of cases is an improvement on many fronts), keep their own ways to an acceptable and non-intrusive level, and try to fit in with the majority. When things do not work out this way people are bound to be dissatisfied.

Why is enforcement of Sharia laws even an issue to be discussed?