Using fixed deposit account for retirement visa - warning!

[chiang mai]

The absolute key to having an account qualifying for the 800k routine is you have to be able to get your hands on it any time you want; as such, a fixed account (for a set period of time and you can't get your hands on it in the interim - much like a lot of certificates of deposits in the west) won't qualify; however, most if not all the banks offer accounts that are for a set period of time, pay higher interest rates than the regular accounts, and you can get your hands on the money any time you want (but, if you take it out before the time period lapses, you lose all or most of the accrued interest). For example only, I rolled over my old "800k" account in October at SCB and put it in for 14 months and interest accrues at 2.8% per annum.

And, so there's no mistake, it might be wise to ask the bank when you sign up for any "800k" account if it qualifies for the immigration letter. I ask the question every time I create a new account once the old one's time limit has expired. By the way, as some have noted, if you just leave the money in that account after the time limit expires, thereafter you earn the lousy "regular savings" interest rate.

"a fixed account (for a set period of time and you can't get your hands on it in the interim - much like a lot of certificates of deposits in the west) won't qualify".

Incorrect, one more time: ALL fixed account deposits in Thai banks can be encashed at any time during the term, ergo they all qualify for the retirement visa purposes.

[paulhen]

Ubonjoe,

Can I ask you to let me spin the question around - do you or anybody else, know of a Thai baht Fixed Account (as opposed to a Fixed Deposit Foreign Currency Account such as I recently closed), that is NOT fully liquid on demand by the depositor? If so, then what"instrument" was being held - what I would call a "term deposit"?

Edited January 9, 2015 by paulhen

[chiang mai]

Ubonjoe,

Can I ask you to let me spin the question around - do you or anybody else, know of a Thai baht Fixed Account (as opposed to a Fixed Deposit Foreign Currency Account such as I recently closed), that is NOT fully liquid on demand by the depositor? If so, then what"instrument" was being held - what I would call a "term deposit"?

It's all in the terminology:

A "fixed rate" account guarantees the rate for a period that is not necessarily fixed since the customer can cash out at any time, subject to loss of interest.

I don't know of any fixed term AND fixed rate accounts in Thailand (ditto fixed term), I don't believe they are generally available, why would they.

Mutual Fund and Insurance based products often get represented as fixed rate/fixed term accounts which they are not, as do some step accounts.

[paulhen]

I agree fully with you Khnomkhnom. Most of this thread is ill informed in my opinion, and learning from others falls apart when they "think they know" or insinuate that their single experience, even if specifically true, speaks to the situation at large.

Edited January 9, 2015 by paulhen

[Doc46]

Well it clearly states that you must have the funds for 90 days in a Thai account in your name ,,,You just have to make sure that you arrange your fixed deposit account so that it is that way,, I done that,,,, No probs

Edited January 9, 2015 by Doc46

[ubonjoe]

A normal fixed deposit account will be accepted. Some banks may have restrictions on certain types of accounts for removing the funds that immigration will not accept.

There are accounts that are normally referred to as fund accounts that will not be accepted.

[12DrinkMore]

to Bender92

you write about the tax you get every January.

What kind of tax is it ?

Is it the 15 % tax of the interest you get it back ? Do you need to have a company to get that tax back ?

I never get that tax back before. How do you do ?

- Yes, it is the 15% withholding tax.

- No, you do not need a company.

- To get it back

Step 1 take all you bank books to the respective banks and ask for a statement of tax paid in the previous year. This is provided free, normally on the spot, but if they are busy you may have to come back next day.

Step 2. Take your passport, bank books (never been needed) and the bank statements to your local friendly tax office (yes, they are friendly)

Step 3. Tell them you want to claim the tax back, they will then give you a tax id, and produce a tax form, at which point I declare I am terminally stupid and please could they help me fill it out.

Step 3. Wait for cheque in post.

Step 4. Cash cheque.

Done.

[captnhoy]

Another effort to be helpful and detailed about an important visa topic.

Another set of goofy grumpy ill-tempered holy-than-thou responses.

This is why, even if I have good and somewhat unique info, I will never post that.

After being burned a couple of times, now I just post softball opinions on ephemeral topics.

AMEN to that. So many of the snide comments on here expect the OP to know what he did not know. Well now he does and he is sharing it with the one or two other expats in Thailand who DO NOT ALREADY KNOW EVERY(deleted)THING. I do cruise through TV but rarely want to participate in the never ending pissing contest. WHAT a friendly bunch.

[Alfa]

to 12DrinkMore,

Thanks a Lot. I didn't know anything about it before. This year I shall try.

You've been very helpful

I appreciate it.

Cheers

[paulhen]

I for one, agree with you Capnhoy,

But if anyone following this thread grasps a rational "consensus of opinion", it is beyond me. And most of the posts are not factual given their lack of depth and substantiation. Further, there are a number of government policies that even the banks are unaware of. I speak from experience in Chiang Mai at two banks and two tax offices in Chiang Mai in the past week. And having paid a fine for late filing of my tax back being one of a number of things, I have not seen mentioned. And if that does not lead inquiring minds to wonder, so be it. Likewise, for differentiating savings accounts and the changing thresholds for withholding tax, that apply to them. And before the noisemakers start up that drown out the good contributors to TV polluting the value of facts being contributed helping those in need, I am on a retirement extension and have no Thailand based income except interest.

My advice to those who need proper advice, do not FOLLOW ANY FROM TV unless you have reviewed the credibility of the poster you think to follow. Not being able to derive a consensus of opinion from this thread, how can one hope to derive it from the broader scale of topic?

But many of the posters put a lot of energy and time into rational, helpful posts that get drowned out by the noise of those that should be ignored. Many have helped me a lot, even before moving here. That is in my opinion sure, but one has only to try to extract a rational action plan from this thread to conclude??

[Liquorice]

As long as you can instantly access money, any type of account in your name only will satisfy Immigration.

Fixed term Deposit Accounts give the better Interest rates for this purpose.

It's the term of the Deposit Account that is fixed. i.e. 3, 6, or 12 months.

The longer the period, the better interest rate you get.

At the end of the term that account will revert to a standard account with a lower interest rate, but with the same account number.

If you 'roll' over the money, it will go into another fixed term, with a new account number.

It's simply a question of timing. Doing a fixed 12 month term just after getting an extension will ensure your money will be seasoned for the next extension.

Money in a fixed term Deposit Account can be accessed at any time, but you would lose some of the interest.

[KittenKong]

Jomtien Immigration are more broad-minded than some about the way funds are deposited but even so I always make sure that my time deposit starts at least three months before the date of my renewal. It isn't very hard to calculate.

Some banks (CIMB for example) use one passbook for multiple time deposits, so the total balance is always shown thus avoiding the problem that the OP had. Even so it pays to ask the bank providing the covering letter to specifically mention that the full amount was available for at least three months prior to the date of the letter. All the bank branches I have used in Pattaya/Jomtien know this and act accordingly.

[KittenKong]

Why do so many farangs play with moving money around? Crazy!!

Keep 800.000 baht in the bank, leave it alone .Ok so you can get interest !!huh!! with interest rates as they are now , leave it alone.Having funds correct for your visa is more important than a few baht extra interest.

I move my money around all the time so as to get the best return from it, both here and in the UK. It only requires a minimum of brain power and a spare hour or so from time to time for the trips to banks or the online transfers.

My 801,000B retirement extension deposit (yes, I do deliberately deposit 1,000B extra in the account) is currently on a 14 month TD paying 3.5%pa which will give me well over 32000B interest over the term, after I reclaim the tax. This will buy me a beer or two every day over the term, and I will enjoy drinking them all the more for knowing that my bank paid for them.

[gk10002000]

800,000 @ 3 % is 24,000 baht. Not a trivial amount, but that doesn't pay the rent of an apartment in Thailand for 12 months.

I have a bit more than that invested and increasing in Thailand all the time, 800k is not a lot of money but 4x that and it starts to matter, but my point still remains - think back to the days when you were paying a mortgage 1% here and there had an impact on most peoples cash flow, the banks and financial services are good at taking it off you I see little harm in taking some back and having to work at it, keeps me busy for an hour or two a week

Because of US tax laws, and income reporting paperwork, and money on deposit paperwork, if I do retire in Thailand I will not keep large amounts of cash there, certainly will be below $10,000 USD. In addition, sorry, but I don't trust the Thai banking or financial or legal system much. I love the place, but when things go wrong for a falang, you have little proper legal recourse. I will do the monthly income method.

[smedly]

what a bucket of worms this thread has opened up due to my simple question which has been answered many times over, clarified here and also clarified by my bank today, my pension from 44 covers me for retirement extension apart from about 160k baht, I wanted to make sure that if I had all of my transferred money in an interest paying fixed account that it could be used if required and that question has been answered multiple times

Hard to believe these threads go on and on discussing the same things over and over, if in doubt ask your bank

[smedly]

800,000 @ 3 % is 24,000 baht. Not a trivial amount, but that doesn't pay the rent of an apartment in Thailand for 12 months.

I have a bit more than that invested and increasing in Thailand all the time, 800k is not a lot of money but 4x that and it starts to matter, but my point still remains - think back to the days when you were paying a mortgage 1% here and there had an impact on most peoples cash flow, the banks and financial services are good at taking it off you I see little harm in taking some back and having to work at it, keeps me busy for an hour or two a week

Because of US tax laws, and income reporting paperwork, and money on deposit paperwork, if I do retire in Thailand I will not keep large amounts of cash there, certainly will be below $10,000 USD. In addition, sorry, but I don't trust the Thai banking or financial or legal system much. I love the place, but when things go wrong for a falang, you have little proper legal recourse. I will do the monthly income method.

although off topic I agree with you and have posted about this before, I don't trust Thai banks or more to the point the employees in the IT side of things, which is why I opted not to have an ATM card linked to my account, no big deal going into the branch and making a withdrawal, too many horror stories that to me are inside jobs

off topic

[Liquorice]

These accounts are stable and secure and protected under the Deposit Protection Agency Act.

If you sign up for SMS texts you get an SMS every time a deposit or withdrawal is made, so if an unauthorised withdrawal was made you would be immediately alerted to that fact. I have the BE1st chip and pin debit card, which is also more secure than the standard ATM card.

[Liquorice]

smedly, on 10 Jan 2015 - 03:57, said:

what a bucket of worms this thread has opened up due to my simple question which has been answered many times over, clarified here and also clarified by my bank today, my pension from 44 covers me for retirement extension apart from about 160k baht, I wanted to make sure that if I had all of my transferred money in an interest paying fixed account that it could be used if required and that question has been answered multiple times

Hard to believe these threads go on and on discussing the same things over and over, if in doubt ask your bank

Smedley, with the deepest of respect, it wasn't your topic to decide when you've had a suitable answer.

You effectively high jacked this thread with your question.

It's an open forum and many other members will benefit from the many contributions made by other members.

There is always someone wiser and much to be learnt by all.

If indeed you think your bank knows all the financial requirements of Immigration, then it beggars belief why you bothered posting your question on TV in the first place.

[Briggsy]

what a bucket of worms this thread has opened up due to my simple question which has been answered many times over, clarified here and also clarified by my bank today, my pension from 44 covers me for retirement extension apart from about 160k baht, I wanted to make sure that if I had all of my transferred money in an interest paying fixed account that it could be used if required and that question has been answered multiple times

Hard to believe these threads go on and on discussing the same things over and over, if in doubt ask your bank

Smedey, you posted a valid question.

Just beware of the financial instruments that banks here sometimes try to push on customers which are not fixed deposit accounts but are described as being very similar. They are closer to life assurance policies. These don't count as they are not liquid. They are often sold by "dolly birds" in the branch.

[bushwacker]

Not sure if the advice to not close the account if it matures within the 3 month seasoning is good advice. My account with the GSB is automatically closed on maturity and transferred to an ordinary savings account. I do nothing.

[Liquorice]

bushwacker, on 10 Jan 2015 - 12:05, said:

Not sure if the advice to not close the account if it matures within the 3 month seasoning is good advice. My account with the GSB is automatically closed on maturity and transferred to an ordinary savings account. I do nothing.

I think you'll find your deposit account reverts to an ordinary savings account on maturity.........not transferred to another account.

Your quite correct to do nothing if it matures in the seasoning period 3 months prior to an extension application.

You need to have the same account number for 3 months prior to the application

As I already stated it's better to have a fixed deposit account that matures just, or not long after getting an extension, then renew for another 12 months if possible.

[louse1953]

The OP could have avoided those problems by simply asking his bank to supply him with a letter, addressed to Immigration Dept., stating the total balance of all his accounts, on the key dates. This is common practice amongst banks and Immigration Dept. usually accepts the letter without question.

Exactly what i did.Also,Immi told me i have to show my normal account as they want to see movement of money.This wasn't a requirement before.

[louse1953]

Why do so many farangs play with moving money around? Crazy!!

Keep 800.000 baht in the bank, leave it alone .Ok so you can get interest !!huh!! with interest rates as they are now , leave it alone.Having funds correct for your visa is more important than a few baht extra interest.

Disagree (at least if you leave it alone for the whole year).

Stil easy to get more than 2% net.

16000 Baht is worth a few beers

I have the majority of my funds in THB and try to limit the amount of interest free money to an essential amount.

Combined with the fact that the money from a fixed deposit is available anytime in case of an emergency (loosing interest), this makes sense to me.

Don't forget to claim your 15% tax back gents,another 7000 baht payday.

[louse1953]

now there's a classic troll post (khunbenq) or someone who actually has absolutely no grasp of how much 3% will pay over a year or has no money to his name, it would cover the rent of an apartment in Thailand for 12 months, just you keep on spending with your head in the sand or up somewhere cos you seriously have no idea or are simply broke

Still not certain whom you are addressing with "troll post"?

2% is 16000 as I wrote, 3% is 24000.

Both worth the effort, though 3% is more difficult to find these days.

Bangkok Bank has it 3 and a half % for 4 months and 2 and a half for 3 months.

[louse1953]

I agree fully with you Khnomkhnom. Most of this thread is ill informed in my opinion, and learning from others falls apart when they "think they know" or insinuate that their single experience, even if specifically true, speaks to the situation at large.

Thanks for your input to thread that had no relevance at all.Please continue with your silence.

[louse1953]

to Bender92

you write about the tax you get every January.

What kind of tax is it ?

Is it the 15 % tax of the interest you get it back ? Do you need to have a company to get that tax back ?

I never get that tax back before. How do you do ?

- Yes, it is the 15% withholding tax.

- No, you do not need a company.

- To get it back

Step 1 take all you bank books to the respective banks and ask for a statement of tax paid in the previous year. This is provided free, normally on the spot, but if they are busy you may have to come back next day.

Step 2. Take your passport, bank books (never been needed) and the bank statements to your local friendly tax office (yes, they are friendly)

Step 3. Tell them you want to claim the tax back, they will then give you a tax id, and produce a tax form, at which point I declare I am terminally stupid and please could they help me fill it out.

Step 3. Wait for cheque in post.

Step 4. Cash cheque.

Done.

How many years can you go back.I read here somewhere it was 3 years,tax office said 3 years last week.Yesterday bank said 1 year and tax office said they didn't know.

[chiang mai]

to Bender92

you write about the tax you get every January.

What kind of tax is it ?

Is it the 15 % tax of the interest you get it back ? Do you need to have a company to get that tax back ?

I never get that tax back before. How do you do ?

- Yes, it is the 15% withholding tax.

- No, you do not need a company.

- To get it back

Step 1 take all you bank books to the respective banks and ask for a statement of tax paid in the previous year. This is provided free, normally on the spot, but if they are busy you may have to come back next day.

Step 2. Take your passport, bank books (never been needed) and the bank statements to your local friendly tax office (yes, they are friendly)

Step 3. Tell them you want to claim the tax back, they will then give you a tax id, and produce a tax form, at which point I declare I am terminally stupid and please could they help me fill it out.

Step 3. Wait for cheque in post.

Step 4. Cash cheque.

Done.

How many years can you go back.I read here somewhere it was 3 years,tax office said 3 years last week.Yesterday bank said 1 year and tax office said they didn't know.

Three years but with a fine/penalty of 200 baht per year for late filing.

[chiang mai]

The OP could have avoided those problems by simply asking his bank to supply him with a letter, addressed to Immigration Dept., stating the total balance of all his accounts, on the key dates. This is common practice amongst banks and Immigration Dept. usually accepts the letter without question.

Exactly what i did.Also,Immi told me i have to show my normal account as they want to see movement of money.This wasn't a requirement before.

I don't believe it's a requirement today either.

[Liquorice]

louse1953, on 10 Jan 2015 - 14:34, said:

KhunBENQ, on 09 Jan 2015 - 13:41, said:

smedly, on 09 Jan 2015 - 01:06, said:

now there's a classic troll post (khunbenq) or someone who actually has absolutely no grasp of how much 3% will pay over a year or has no money to his name, it would cover the rent of an apartment in Thailand for 12 months, just you keep on spending with your head in the sand or up somewhere cos you seriously have no idea or are simply broke

Still not certain whom you are addressing with "troll post"?

2% is 16000 as I wrote, 3% is 24000.

Both worth the effort, though 3% is more difficult to find these days.

Bangkok Bank has it 3 and a half % for 4 months and 2 and a half for 3 months.

What type of account is that louse?

Fixed deposit account Bangkok bank is;

3 months = 1.125%

4 months = 2.000%

11 months = 2.8%

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/WebServices/Rates/Pages/DepositRates.aspx

[Liquorice]

chiang mai, on 10 Jan 2015 - 17:41, said:

louse1953, on 10 Jan 2015 - 14:14, said:

chiang mai, on 08 Jan 2015 - 17:58, said:

The OP could have avoided those problems by simply asking his bank to supply him with a letter, addressed to Immigration Dept., stating the total balance of all his accounts, on the key dates. This is common practice amongst banks and Immigration Dept. usually accepts the letter without question.

Exactly what i did.Also,Immi told me i have to show my normal account as they want to see movement of money.This wasn't a requirement before.

I don't believe it's a requirement today either.

It isn't! The only requirement is 800,000 held in Thai bank for 3 months (retirement ext/ 2 months for 1st application)

However in saying that, Immigration can request whatever they feel is necessary, so I tend to take a letter stating the total of both my accounts and take both my savings a/c and deposit a/c passbooks.

It's a 5 hour round trip for me, so I tend to go hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.