Abbas dramatically challenges Israel after 10 cautious years

[Steely Dan]

Better than nothing & for many years nothing is all there is to show for it.

YES...BOTH sides are to blame
As such a 3rd party court should step in ...should have long ago

Otherwise it is just rinse & repeat ad nauseam

Court rules it & if either side doesn't like it let the walls they built become their prison
Sanction the crap out of any side that will not comply...Nothing goes in...Nothing goes out
except humanitarian aid when needed
No Military aid, no financial aid, no foreign trades & no foreign banking....nada

Well, both sides need to accept the third party as objective, unbiased and just.
Both need to agree to fully accept its ruling.
I think it is fairly obvious that reaching a middle ground on this issue could be problematic.
And yes, the Palestinians do see the USA as non of the above, but that does not necessarily make the ICC (or another UN body) a proper candidate. If fairness impartiality is required, then it ought to apply both ways.

Not according to my post..........

This is not some kind of border determination this is a
"International Criminal Court"

We have seen the movie "both sides need to accept the third party as objective"
so many times we know all the lines by heart
It does not work & is little more than an endless cycle of stalling

Let the countries that accept/recognize this court accept a ruling
As my post suggested those countries can refuse to allow any that do not accept
the ruling passage, military/financial aid, trade,banking etc.
While this is not the place to hammer out the final decision about borders etc it may get that ball started rolling
the same way they use sanctions against so many with far less crimes/problems to start a negotiation process

If the US wants to ignore it let them & lets see what the citizens of the US think at that point when it is even more
than the constant blatant vetos of years gone by.

Fairness/Impartiality is required to reach middle ground/peace & yes it should go both ways.... but has it after all these decades?
None would agree it has been impartial this far & the US + their constant vetos is a big reason why.

As it now stands there will NEVER be an acceptable 3rd party in Israels mind because their actions are beyond blatant.
A blind man can see that

The recent acceptance of Palestine even if only symbolically by other countries means others are willing to look
& decide for themselves thru a vehicle like this court.
This court can look at crimes committed by both sides & Abba knows this going in...but at least they are going.
Those countries that accept this court can accept & enforce its ruling thru the sanctions I mentioned.

Is it a fix all? Of course not....Is it something? Yes.... & we know if left to their own devices it will never be anything
or I should say nothing will ever be allowed...so time has long been up IMO as my 1st line said

"Better than nothing & for many years nothing is all there is to show for it."

How will a hypothetical ICC ruling against Israel fix...anything?
What actual good will it do the Palestinians, other than some satisfaction of getting back at Israel?

It may be the grounds for economic sanctions against Israel. How could Israel's largest trading partner the EU continue support for a country that is harboring convicted war criminals?

And if any hypothetical convictions in the ICC are of no real consequence, as you claim, how come Netanyahu’s government and the Israeli apologists on this forum are panicking at the prospect of the Palestinians following a peaceful, diplomatic course rather than violence?

By that logic how can the EU recognize a Palestinian entity partly comprising of a terrorist group and by extension grant them aid? Should they come under the remit of the ICC their dirty laundry will be aired, and it contains a lot more skid marks than Israel's. Incidentally BDS has already cost Palestinian jobs in the West Bank due to boycotts by some firms, not that the welfare of Palestinians matters at all to those with Israel derangement syndrome. To them the Palestinians are just a tool to attack Israel with by proxy, you can tell this by their complete ignorance and indifference to the 2000 Palestinians killed in Syria, pity Assad didn't have a Jewish grandmother then the Palestinians there could benefit from the relentless but impotent frothing of their would be organ grinders.

[Morch]

I am bringing in the impartiality bit as some seem to hold that the ICC rulings are universally accepted, or that its ruling denote absolute truth. That somehow, by virtue of a hypothetical future ruling against Israel will invalidate all of the Palestinian claims. This is not so. As you pointed out, it is a court, and it rules on specific criminal cases rather than arbitrates broad issues such as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

This is why the move is considered nonconstructive, by some, as far as peace is concerned. Such a hypothetical ruling against Israel will not, by itself, change realities for the Palestinians, nor is it very likely to play a decisive factor in Israel's policy. Rather, it is simply another instance of the tit-for-tat thing, the difference being that this time the Palestinians seem to be more on top of things than usual. The move, if considered without its domestic significance, is more about applying further pressure on Israel, of scoring points in the game.

That the USA, who was the central mediator involved in negotiations is not impartial, is true enough. I beg to differ on the issue of the USA exercising its veto right, though, which usually takes place within a defined context - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroponte_doctrine. Granted that recent Israeli governments have made sustaining this USA policy harder to defend or explain. Then again, most people do not actually read the proposed UNSC resolutions, but make up their minds according to headlines. How does moving things from one impartial arena to another make things better or fair?

How will a hypothetical ICC ruling against Israel fix...anything?

What actual good will it do the Palestinians, other than some satisfaction of getting back at Israel?

Yes I understood where you were coming from but as I said I did not agree

because my post was aimed at getting the ball rolling & this is a criminal court looking at facts.

We here even on this forum constantly say ....well that will never work

The JDL folks constantly basically say....well it is their fault & they lost so let them eat cake

Or at the very least always have an excuse as to anything further...tit for tat always

The Palestinians fire their pipe bombs & this is what Israel uses to stall negotiations.

Claiming stop this & we will stop that....But it has never held nor slowed expansion. Even the US themselves

have said so in their meek way with no teeth.

Yet hopefully with a criminal court involved all sides will have to tone it down.

Also I did say both sides....This court could sanction either or both in "criminal matters that have

only stalled negotiations

As for the Veto deal I think history is there for all to see as it is record.

Yes US veto's within their right but that does not cancel the obvious favoritism & what is basically an abuse of those rights

If that vote was left to the US citizens in what ever form many of those vetos would have no legs.

But ultimately that is a side issue & only leads us away from this topic. So sorry for the sidebar

So to answer your final line

"How will a hypothetical ICC ruling against Israel fix...anything?"

It would not be hypothetical it is coming nor would it possibly be just against Israel as again it goes both ways.

Israel is free to step forward with their own charges for the court to consider...but will they?

Yes It will not instantly fix anything ...But it will do as all sanctions do & apply pressure

If the pressure gets high enough choices will have to be made.

It is no longer one mans decision but hopefully many countries involved

"What actual good will it do the Palestinians, other than some satisfaction of getting back at Israel?"

As above & again it can go both ways as a court should. Unlike the BS negotiations that have

pretended to be anything more than token claims by both sides.

Let me state in this post again, that I do not hold with tagging other posters, even those holding opposed opinions as "apologists" (or as you chose to put it "JDL"). Doesn't contribute much to discussion.

If the assumption, or rather, the expectation, is that the Palestinian ICC move will "get the ball rolling" - a bit of reality dose is in order. To date, ICC proceeding are not known to be hasty, nor do all cases submitted taken up. Feel free to check time frames for past cases, ongoing investigations and pending appeals. The notion that these moves would lead to any swift outcomes is an illusion. The notion that all of Israel's actions (or even if applicable, all of the Palestinian actions) will come under scrutiny is an illusion.

If one asserts, before cases were even considered by the ICC, that this is not hypothetical but a done deal, then there is little to discuss. Why, it seems that even the outcome is a foregone conclusion in the minds of some. May I suggest that these notions are not necessarily supported by facts, reality or legalities, but rather by wishes, agenda and perception of how things ought to be?

Consider the actual effects on Palestinians (other than leadership) - no positive short term change in condition, probably quite the opposite as a result of existing punitive steps taken by Israel, and further ones expected. No short term results as far as the ICC goes. Israel diffing its heels even further (if that's possible). Sanction against Israel are not good news for the Palestinians. Whatever happens to Israeli economy is reflected over the 1967 lines as well. Overall, it may be a legitimate diplomatic effort by the Palestinians, but less sure that the result would simply reinforce the ongoing tit-for-tat, possibly making it worse.

The USA veto, we will have to remain in disagreement. History is indeed there for all to see - I just think that not many actually make the effort to look behind the headlines, know the context and the pesky details. Rather, as stated, there's a record. Not the same thing. No idea if the majority of USA citizens hold similar opinions to yours, and guess that asserting how they would vote is, again, more wishful thinking or a reflection of how things ought to be, rather than fact and reality. Regardless, no country is run by constant referendums on every matter, so the point is irrelevant.

[ggold]

I am bringing in the impartiality bit as some seem to hold that the ICC rulings are universally accepted, or that its ruling denote absolute truth. That somehow, by virtue of a hypothetical future ruling against Israel will invalidate all of the Palestinian claims. This is not so. As you pointed out, it is a court, and it rules on specific criminal cases rather than arbitrates broad issues such as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

This is why the move is considered nonconstructive, by some, as far as peace is concerned. Such a hypothetical ruling against Israel will not, by itself, change realities for the Palestinians, nor is it very likely to play a decisive factor in Israel's policy. Rather, it is simply another instance of the tit-for-tat thing, the difference being that this time the Palestinians seem to be more on top of things than usual. The move, if considered without its domestic significance, is more about applying further pressure on Israel, of scoring points in the game.

That the USA, who was the central mediator involved in negotiations is not impartial, is true enough. I beg to differ on the issue of the USA exercising its veto right, though, which usually takes place within a defined context - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroponte_doctrine. Granted that recent Israeli governments have made sustaining this USA policy harder to defend or explain. Then again, most people do not actually read the proposed UNSC resolutions, but make up their minds according to headlines. How does moving things from one impartial arena to another make things better or fair?

How will a hypothetical ICC ruling against Israel fix...anything?

What actual good will it do the Palestinians, other than some satisfaction of getting back at Israel?

Yes I understood where you were coming from but as I said I did not agree

because my post was aimed at getting the ball rolling & this is a criminal court looking at facts.

We here even on this forum constantly say ....well that will never work

The JDL folks constantly basically say....well it is their fault & they lost so let them eat cake

Or at the very least always have an excuse as to anything further...tit for tat always

The Palestinians fire their pipe bombs & this is what Israel uses to stall negotiations.

Claiming stop this & we will stop that....But it has never held nor slowed expansion. Even the US themselves

have said so in their meek way with no teeth.

Yet hopefully with a criminal court involved all sides will have to tone it down.

Also I did say both sides....This court could sanction either or both in "criminal matters that have

only stalled negotiations

As for the Veto deal I think history is there for all to see as it is record.

Yes US veto's within their right but that does not cancel the obvious favoritism & what is basically an abuse of those rights

If that vote was left to the US citizens in what ever form many of those vetos would have no legs.

But ultimately that is a side issue & only leads us away from this topic. So sorry for the sidebar

So to answer your final line

"How will a hypothetical ICC ruling against Israel fix...anything?"

It would not be hypothetical it is coming nor would it possibly be just against Israel as again it goes both ways.

Israel is free to step forward with their own charges for the court to consider...but will they?

Yes It will not instantly fix anything ...But it will do as all sanctions do & apply pressure

If the pressure gets high enough choices will have to be made.

It is no longer one mans decision but hopefully many countries involved

"What actual good will it do the Palestinians, other than some satisfaction of getting back at Israel?"

As above & again it can go both ways as a court should. Unlike the BS negotiations that have

pretended to be anything more than token claims by both sides.

The ICC don't have the power to sanction any government. Even if the found someone guilty of something it doesn't mean the whole country then has economic sanctions imposed. But even if they could impose sanctions, that is not going to bring the two parties together to hammer out a treaty.

Then you have to ask, Does the ICC really want to become piggy in the middle, used by either side just to get at the other! At the end of it all they are still going to have to negotiate.

I think some people have an unrealistic idea of what the ICC can do to resolve a situation that will be antagonistic towards one or both sides. This really doesn't help any future peace deal.

Abbas knows this, so you have to wonder what it is he hopes to achieve. This will not bring a palestinian state closer to being. Probably the opposite. It is the PA that are not ready to talk peace their actions show this so Israel will not be pushed into something that doesn't suit its security.

[NeverSure]

Not according to my post..........

This is not some kind of border determination this is a

"International Criminal Court"

-snip-

If the US wants to ignore it let them & lets see what the citizens of the US think at that point when it is even more

than the constant blatant vetos of years gone by.

The American people will support kicking ass on anyone who tells them how to run their country even if they disagree on how it's being run. There is no such thing as an international body which can overrule USA sovereignty.

Presidents who start wars against Islamic Arabs get re-elected in case you didn't notice. Even Obama increased forces and hardware in Afghanistan. Presidents who support Israel get re-elected.

The OP is about Abbas and his toothless saber rattling. I guarantee you that it will do him no good. This little court he wants to join and appeal to isn't even on the map. It doesn't exist.

Palestine doesn't exist either except in the minds of a people who falsely call themselves Palestinians and lob rockets into Israel.

The so-called "Palestinians" are just digging themselves in deeper.

[Chicog]

The chances of Palestine getting anything meaningful out of the ICC is about as likely as the possiblity of the ICC arresting and charging Bush Jr. with war crimes.

i.e. 0.

[ggold]

The chances of Palestine getting anything meaningful out of the ICC is about as likely as the possiblity of the ICC arresting and charging Bush Jr. with war crimes.

i.e. 0.

don't forget his poodle T Blair!

[Pakboong]

Theyre incredibly aggressive. Theyre aggressive in all aspects of their relationship with the United States. Why would their intelligence relationship with us be any different?

This may come as a big surprise, but pretty much every country of earth spies on each other, including the United States, who was caught spying on our German allies, amongst others. Why would Israel be any different?

You are correct of course. My opinions of Israel headed south while the Pollard case was being investigated. I have always said the dumbest thing Israel could do would be to align itself with a convicted traitor. This crap gets discussed at the highest levels of government around the clock. The guy is the worst type of criminal and got caught. The damage caused by this man has never been detailed for public consumption. I seriously doubt he will be released but I have seen stranger things.

I guess this is a simple matter of Jews helping Jews. I can't see any other way. Don't try to sell the story that he has served enough time for his crime. There will never be enough time in this particular case nobody can make that case.because nobody can openly discuss the actual damage done.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Pakboong

[dexterm]

I am bringing in the impartiality bit as some seem to hold that the ICC rulings are universally accepted, or that its ruling denote absolute truth. That somehow, by virtue of a hypothetical future ruling against Israel will invalidate all of the Palestinian claims. This is not so. As you pointed out, it is a court, and it rules on specific criminal cases rather than arbitrates broad issues such as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

This is why the move is considered nonconstructive, by some, as far as peace is concerned. Such a hypothetical ruling against Israel will not, by itself, change realities for the Palestinians, nor is it very likely to play a decisive factor in Israel's policy. Rather, it is simply another instance of the tit-for-tat thing, the difference being that this time the Palestinians seem to be more on top of things than usual. The move, if considered without its domestic significance, is more about applying further pressure on Israel, of scoring points in the game.

That the USA, who was the central mediator involved in negotiations is not impartial, is true enough. I beg to differ on the issue of the USA exercising its veto right, though, which usually takes place within a defined context - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroponte_doctrine. Granted that recent Israeli governments have made sustaining this USA policy harder to defend or explain. Then again, most people do not actually read the proposed UNSC resolutions, but make up their minds according to headlines. How does moving things from one impartial arena to another make things better or fair?

How will a hypothetical ICC ruling against Israel fix...anything?

What actual good will it do the Palestinians, other than some satisfaction of getting back at Israel?

Yes I understood where you were coming from but as I said I did not agree

because my post was aimed at getting the ball rolling & this is a criminal court looking at facts.

We here even on this forum constantly say ....well that will never work

The JDL folks constantly basically say....well it is their fault & they lost so let them eat cake

Or at the very least always have an excuse as to anything further...tit for tat always

The Palestinians fire their pipe bombs & this is what Israel uses to stall negotiations.

Claiming stop this & we will stop that....But it has never held nor slowed expansion. Even the US themselves

have said so in their meek way with no teeth.

Yet hopefully with a criminal court involved all sides will have to tone it down.

Also I did say both sides....This court could sanction either or both in "criminal matters that have

only stalled negotiations

As for the Veto deal I think history is there for all to see as it is record.

Yes US veto's within their right but that does not cancel the obvious favoritism & what is basically an abuse of those rights

If that vote was left to the US citizens in what ever form many of those vetos would have no legs.

But ultimately that is a side issue & only leads us away from this topic. So sorry for the sidebar

So to answer your final line

"How will a hypothetical ICC ruling against Israel fix...anything?"

It would not be hypothetical it is coming nor would it possibly be just against Israel as again it goes both ways.

Israel is free to step forward with their own charges for the court to consider...but will they?

Yes It will not instantly fix anything ...But it will do as all sanctions do & apply pressure

If the pressure gets high enough choices will have to be made.

It is no longer one mans decision but hopefully many countries involved

"What actual good will it do the Palestinians, other than some satisfaction of getting back at Israel?"

As above & again it can go both ways as a court should. Unlike the BS negotiations that have

pretended to be anything more than token claims by both sides.

Israel is free to step forward with their own charges for the court to consider...but will they?

They have to sign and ratify the treaty themselves to bring a charge against Hamas, or have a UNSC member do so without being vetoed by another super power.

[dexterm]

[

How will a hypothetical ICC ruling against Israel fix...anything?

What actual good will it do the Palestinians, other than some satisfaction of getting back at Israel?

It may be the grounds for economic sanctions against Israel. How could Israel's largest trading partner the EU continue support for a country that is harboring convicted war criminals?

And if any hypothetical convictions in the ICC are of no real consequence, as you claim, how come Netanyahu’s government and the Israeli apologists on this forum are panicking at the prospect of the Palestinians following a peaceful, diplomatic course rather than violence?

By that logic how can the EU recognize a Palestinian entity partly comprising of a terrorist group and by extension grant them aid? Should they come under the remit of the ICC their dirty laundry will be aired, and it contains a lot more skid marks than Israel's. Incidentally BDS has already cost Palestinian jobs in the West Bank due to boycotts by some firms, not that the welfare of Palestinians matters at all to those with Israel derangement syndrome. To them the Palestinians are just a tool to attack Israel with by proxy, you can tell this by their complete ignorance and indifference to the 2000 Palestinians killed in Syria, pity Assad didn't have a Jewish grandmother then the Palestinians there could benefit from the relentless but impotent frothing of their would be organ grinders.

Hamas has been taken off the EU's list of international terrorist organisations. It’s a legitimate resistance movement, that has been the victim of media hype tossing the word “terrorist” around for any groups opposed to Israel.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/hamas-removed-from-list-of-terrorist-organisations-by-eu-court-9930124.html

[dexterm]

Not according to my post..........

This is not some kind of border determination this is a

"International Criminal Court"

-snip-

If the US wants to ignore it let them & lets see what the citizens of the US think at that point when it is even more

than the constant blatant vetos of years gone by.

The American people will support kicking ass on anyone who tells them how to run their country even if they disagree on how it's being run. There is no such thing as an international body which can overrule USA sovereignty.

Presidents who start wars against Islamic Arabs get re-elected in case you didn't notice. Even Obama increased forces and hardware in Afghanistan. Presidents who support Israel get re-elected.

The OP is about Abbas and his toothless saber rattling. I guarantee you that it will do him no good. This little court he wants to join and appeal to isn't even on the map. It doesn't exist.

Palestine doesn't exist either except in the minds of a people who falsely call themselves Palestinians and lob rockets into Israel.

The so-called "Palestinians" are just digging themselves in deeper.

Your paragraph 2 is correct because your paragraph 1 is incorrect.

As for paras 3 and 4 , I think you are about to get a judicial and geography reality check.

The Palestinians can dig in as deeply as they like. Time is on their side, and the times they are a changing.

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas has been taken off the EU's list of international terrorist organisations.

You forgot something. In a few months it will be back on.

And in a statement, the court stressed that taking Hamas off the list was a decision taken on "procedural grounds", rather than implying "any substantive assessment of the question of the classification of Hamas as a terrorist group".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/hamas-removed-from-list-of-terrorist-organisations-by-eu-court-9930124.html

Edited January 14, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[chuckd]

Hamas has been taken off the EU's list of international terrorist organisations.

You forgot something. In a few months it will be back on.

And in a statement, the court stressed that taking Hamas off the list was a decision taken on "procedural grounds", rather than implying "any substantive assessment of the question of the classification of Hamas as a terrorist group".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/hamas-removed-from-list-of-terrorist-organisations-by-eu-court-9930124.html

You beat me to it. This news is old news from some months ago.

Some posters just can't prevent themselves from...

[Morch]

[

How will a hypothetical ICC ruling against Israel fix...anything?

What actual good will it do the Palestinians, other than some satisfaction of getting back at Israel?

It may be the grounds for economic sanctions against Israel. How could Israel's largest trading partner the EU continue support for a country that is harboring convicted war criminals?

And if any hypothetical convictions in the ICC are of no real consequence, as you claim, how come Netanyahu’s government and the Israeli apologists on this forum are panicking at the prospect of the Palestinians following a peaceful, diplomatic course rather than violence?

By that logic how can the EU recognize a Palestinian entity partly comprising of a terrorist group and by extension grant them aid? Should they come under the remit of the ICC their dirty laundry will be aired, and it contains a lot more skid marks than Israel's. Incidentally BDS has already cost Palestinian jobs in the West Bank due to boycotts by some firms, not that the welfare of Palestinians matters at all to those with Israel derangement syndrome. To them the Palestinians are just a tool to attack Israel with by proxy, you can tell this by their complete ignorance and indifference to the 2000 Palestinians killed in Syria, pity Assad didn't have a Jewish grandmother then the Palestinians there could benefit from the relentless but impotent frothing of their would be organ grinders.

Hamas has been taken off the EU's list of international terrorist organisations. It’s a legitimate resistance movement, that has been the victim of media hype tossing the word “terrorist” around for any groups opposed to Israel.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/hamas-removed-from-list-of-terrorist-organisations-by-eu-court-9930124.html

No. Read the article you linked, rather than the headline only. It does not say what you claim.

If you are still having trouble figuring out, go back to the previous topic, where this was discussed at length:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/784884-eu-court-takes-hamas-off-terrorist-organisations-list/#entry8815690

Can't imagine why some posters feel the way they do about your credibility.

[Ulysses G.]

No. Read the article you linked, rather than the headline only. It does not say what you claim.

Very few of his links support his posts. They often say exactly the opposite from what he claimed. When they do support his posts, they are usually from some nutty website that contains nothing but fraudulent "history" that would not fool anyone who had read a credible history book on the subject.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[mania]

Let me state in this post again, that I do not hold with tagging other posters, even those holding opposed opinions as "apologists" (or as you chose to put it "JDL"). Doesn't contribute much to discussion.

Well you may hold as you wish as to what you want to say. I think if I tag obvious Jewish Defense League (JDL) posters as JDL that is a damn sight more polite than the names they use constantly on any that should call out wrong doings. (antisemitic or terrorist apologist or worse...)

That aside to tell you the truth this is why I hate even answering follow up posts with anything to do with Israel....Those I call JDL are zealots period...Mind you I am not saying your in that camp & it is obvious to any who have been here a few years who the JDL league are

But this is why I hate to respond follow ups...It turns into a bunch of Hypothetical reasons why NOTHING

can ever be done. The JDL types as well as mild supporters of the status quo have no reason to want change.

So instead they pretend to analyze it till they paralyze it. The ones with even less ability.... instead twist it into something it never was.

As such this was my 1st post & it basically said everything I had to say......... I will post if I want to say something or give my opinion. But I am not interested in these faux concern follow up arguments

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/791543-abbas-dramatically-challenges-israel-after-10-cautious-years/#entry8932418

Better than nothing & for many years nothing is all there is to show for it.

YES...BOTH sides are to blame

As such a 3rd party court should step in ...should have long ago

Otherwise it is just rinse & repeat ad nauseam

Court rules it & if either side doesn't like it let the walls they built become their prison

Sanction the crap out of any side that will not comply...Nothing goes in...Nothing goes out

except humanitarian aid when needed

No Military aid, no financial aid, no foreign trades & no foreign banking....nada

[Morch]

Let me state in this post again, that I do not hold with tagging other posters, even those holding opposed opinions as "apologists" (or as you chose to put it "JDL"). Doesn't contribute much to discussion.

Well you may hold as you wish as to what you want to say.

I think if I tag obvious Jewish Defense League (JDL) posters as JDL

that is a damn sight more polite than the names they use constantly on

any that should call out wrong doings. (antisemitic or terrorist apologist or worse...)

That aside to tell you the truth this is why I hate even answering follow up posts with

anything to do with Israel....Those I call JDL are zealots period...Mind you I am not saying

your in that camp & it is obvious to any who have been here a few years who the JDL league are

But this is why I hate to respond follow ups...It turns into a bunch of Hypothetical reasons why NOTHING

can ever be done. The JDL types as well as mild supporters of the status quo have no reason to want change.

So instead they pretend to analyze it till they paralyze it. The ones with even less ability.... instead twist it into something it never was.

As such this was my 1st post & it basically said everything I had to say.........

I will post if I want to say something or give my opinion.

But I am not interested in these faux concern follow up arguments

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/791543-abbas-dramatically-challenges-israel-after-10-cautious-years/#entry8932418

Better than nothing & for many years nothing is all there is to show for it.

YES...BOTH sides are to blame

As such a 3rd party court should step in ...should have long ago

Otherwise it is just rinse & repeat ad nauseam

Court rules it & if either side doesn't like it let the walls they built become their prison

Sanction the crap out of any side that will not comply...Nothing goes in...Nothing goes out

except humanitarian aid when needed

No Military aid, no financial aid, no foreign trades & no foreign banking....nada

First two paragraphs are kinda funny coming from someone often pointing out the pointless tit-for-tat.

I think that the dynamic you describe is something which can be experienced by posters supporting either side, more to do with direction and tone of the OP as to who takes lead. If one does not wish to partake in the sometime annoying and often futile exchanges, that's totally understandable.

And, well, don't know that I support any status quo, just that many of the "proactive" posts (regardless of side taken) are quite often out of touch with reality.

[Chicog]

I'm actually quite shocked at this. I thought the Jewish lobby was quite sharp at presenting its case.

Nearly half of Britons hold anti-Semitic views, according to a new YouGov poll.

The survey of more than 3,400 British adults found that 45% agreed with at least one of the anti-Semitic statement, with 13% believed that “Jews talk about the holocaust too much in order to get sympathy”.A quarter of people said that “Jews chase money more than other British people”, while 20% believed that “Jews’ loyalty to Israel makes them less loyal to Britain than other British people”, and one in six felt that Jews thought they were better than other people and had too much power in the media.

[Jingthing]

I'll read that as sarcastic shock. Jews are widely despised in many countries whether there are any Jews there or not.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ulysses G.]

Antisemitism has been prevalent in Europe for quite some tine. Does that really come as a shock to anyone?

[Scott]

Please stay on topic. The thread isn't about European anti-Semitism.

[dexterm]

No. Read the article you linked, rather than the headline only. It does not say what you claim.

Very few of his links support his posts. They often say exactly the opposite from what he claimed. When they do support his posts, they are usually from some nutty website that contains nothing but fraudulent "history" that would not fool anyone who had read a credible history book on the subject.

2 personal insults from Morch and UG...I must be hitting a raw nerve of truth. I will wear your ad hominem attacks as a badge of honor. Thanks.

I notice you are again desperately trying to deflect the OP back to your pseudo history myths, UG. Not falling into your trap this time, sorry.

The news about Hamas being delisted as a terrorist group is less than a month old., and they are still delisted. I missed the earlier thread...this is not a full time job for me posting on TVF as it must be for others of you.

[Morch]

No. Read the article you linked, rather than the headline only. It does not say what you claim.

Very few of his links support his posts. They often say exactly the opposite from what he claimed. When they do support his posts, they are usually from some nutty website that contains nothing but fraudulent "history" that would not fool anyone who had read a credible history book on the subject.

2 personal insults from Morch and UG...I must be hitting a raw nerve of truth. I will wear your ad hominem attacks as a badge of honor. Thanks.

I notice you are again desperately trying to deflect the OP back to your pseudo history myths, UG. Not falling into your trap this time, sorry.

The news about Hamas being delisted as a terrorist group is less than a month old., and they are still delisted. I missed the earlier thread...this is not a full time job for me posting on TVF as it must be for others of you.

Pointing out that the link provided by yourself actually does not mean what you claim it does, is a personal insult?

The court said it was nevertheless maintaining the effects of the measures for three months in order to ensure that any possible future freezing of funds would be effective.

And in a statement, the court stressed that taking Hamas off the list was a decision taken on "procedural grounds", rather than implying "any substantive assessment of the question of the classification of Hamas as a terrorist group".

Missed the earlier thread? Counting seven of your messages there

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/784884-eu-court-takes-hamas-off-terrorist-organisations-list/

[Scott]

Please get back on the topic of the thread and stay there. Personal remarks and others is not a part of an intelligent discussion.