bamboozled Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm a Chiang Mai resident so I'm posting this in the CM forum. That being said, the sun shines down on us all equally here in Lalaland. My question: I'm in a rental house, all two stories of it, and the top floor is excruciatingly hot in the summer months. The bedroom does have AC but I only run it while sleeping. I'm actually worried for the things I have stored on the second floor seeing as it gets so hot and they are likely to suffer heat damage. Also, worried for the electric bill. I'm fairly certain there is nothing between the roof and the ceiling such as insulation or reflectors or the like. I'm wondering if there is a fairly cheap way to cut down on this heat. Since it is a rental, I don't want to put a lot of money into it. I know there are the insulated reflective roof panels available and that might be an option but probably more money and work than I want to invest. I'm wondering if even throwing one of the silver plastic tarps over it and tying it down would help or the slow drip water method that I've seen some establishments employ (YMCA for one). Has anybody tackled a similar issue? Thank you, bamboozled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konini Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 As far as I know the whirly-bird air vents in the roof are not very expensive, you can even get solar powered ones which don't need a breeze. The main thing is to get the hot air out, which means leaving windows open downstairs and as well as upstairs to create a cross-draught. In Melbourne we didn't have aircon in the bedrooms but had a small extractor fan which ran all day and all night when it was hot; and along with the ones from bathroom/kitchen it made quite a bit of difference except when it went over 42 or 43 - nothing helped then and sleeping in the lounge was quite popular in our house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinnieTheKhwai Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yes.. would say a combination of venting your roof, along with insulation on top of the ceiling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkles Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Simple garden sprinklers on the roof also help if you have good water pressure,cheap to install plastic piping and sprinkler heads. Many houses in Aus have, mainly for bush fires. Add that to insulation and whirly birds, spinning on the roof, is a total of all you cant do. We have brown tiles on our roof which suck in the heat as against lighter coloured ones that tend to reflect ..........like black cars v white. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masuk Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yup, agree with the insulation and roof exhausts. roof cavity temps often exceed 70C and the heated ceiling radiates this into the rooms. Recommended insulation for the tropics is 150mm minimum. I also had water on the roof set up for bush fires, but if you run this every day, you'll be up for a large water bill, and the dams are getting a bit low just now. I rented a house here with the same heating problem, and overcame a lot of this by purchasing a large industrial type fan on a tripod stand. This blew air into the house and forced it out upstairs. Not the quietest of fans, but it did the job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would like to ask the OP, how high is the actual roof of the house from the ceiling? Ours here is over 3 metres. If your roof is low than you have problems, it means there is no breathing space above the ceiling between the roof tiles for the hot air to circulate creating a very hot ceiling. If this is the case, then there is not much you can do about it. One method that maybe worth trying, is to purchase about 10 light weight aluminium or metal medium size washing up bowls and place them above the ceiling. These bowls will absorb some of the heat. That`s about all I can suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masuk Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would like to ask the OP, how high is the actual roof of the house from the ceiling? Ours here is over 3 metres. If your roof is low than you have problems, it means there is no breathing space above the ceiling between the roof tiles for the hot air to circulate creating a very hot ceiling. If this is the case, then there is not much you can do about it. One method that maybe worth trying, is to purchase about 10 light weight aluminium or metal medium size washing up bowls and place them above the ceiling. These bowls will absorb some of the heat. That`s about all I can suggest. words fail me! You might as well cast spells on the roof. The roof temperature will be over 70C on a normal day and the bowls would need refilling every few hours. Cheapest way as I've suggested is to install a large industrial fan on a tripod near an entrance to the house and force air through the place. Next would be to fit 'cyclone' type ventilators on the roof. These rotate under their own power as hot air passes through them and will keep the roof cavity cooler than being totally blocked off as is usually the case. They are available in Thailand. http://www.twista.com.au/How-Roof-Vents-Work/ http://www.bunnings.com.au/our-range/building-hardware/building-construction/ventilation/roof If the house is rented, negotiate with the owner about sharing the cost of insulation. This should be 150mm thick, and ensure it's not fibre glass which is not used in most countries. Polyester mix is safer for installers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandyellow Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 First time i was in Thailand, I saw a cat on a hot tin corrugated roof, made me think of the old movie..before my time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjie Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Could you put a roof over the roof, or paint the roof white? if you can stop the sun hitting the roof or retaining the heat that would help cool it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would like to ask the OP, how high is the actual roof of the house from the ceiling? Ours here is over 3 metres. If your roof is low than you have problems, it means there is no breathing space above the ceiling between the roof tiles for the hot air to circulate creating a very hot ceiling. If this is the case, then there is not much you can do about it. One method that maybe worth trying, is to purchase about 10 light weight aluminium or metal medium size washing up bowls and place them above the ceiling. These bowls will absorb some of the heat. That`s about all I can suggest. words fail me! You might as well cast spells on the roof. The roof temperature will be over 70C on a normal day and the bowls would need refilling every few hours. Cheapest way as I've suggested is to install a large industrial fan on a tripod near an entrance to the house and force air through the place. Next would be to fit 'cyclone' type ventilators on the roof. These rotate under their own power as hot air passes through them and will keep the roof cavity cooler than being totally blocked off as is usually the case. They are available in Thailand. http://www.twista.com.au/How-Roof-Vents-Work/ http://www.bunnings.com.au/our-range/building-hardware/building-construction/ventilation/roof If the house is rented, negotiate with the owner about sharing the cost of insulation. This should be 150mm thick, and ensure it's not fibre glass which is not used in most countries. Polyester mix is safer for installers. Where in my post did I mention about filling the bowls with water? My point was the the metal bowls will absorb some of the heat. All the fans will do is just circulate the heat, they are not a solution to the problem. But one idea you have plonked into my mind is perhaps installing a large extractor fan inside the roof that may expel some of the hot air. Whatever, considering it`s a rental property the OP has 2 options, either spend some money on solving the problem or move if a solution is not viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjie Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would like to ask the OP, how high is the actual roof of the house from the ceiling? Ours here is over 3 metres. If your roof is low than you have problems, it means there is no breathing space above the ceiling between the roof tiles for the hot air to circulate creating a very hot ceiling. If this is the case, then there is not much you can do about it. One method that maybe worth trying, is to purchase about 10 light weight aluminium or metal medium size washing up bowls and place them above the ceiling. These bowls will absorb some of the heat. That`s about all I can suggest. words fail me! You might as well cast spells on the roof. The roof temperature will be over 70C on a normal day and the bowls would need refilling every few hours. Cheapest way as I've suggested is to install a large industrial fan on a tripod near an entrance to the house and force air through the place. Next would be to fit 'cyclone' type ventilators on the roof. These rotate under their own power as hot air passes through them and will keep the roof cavity cooler than being totally blocked off as is usually the case. They are available in Thailand. http://www.twista.com.au/How-Roof-Vents-Work/ http://www.bunnings.com.au/our-range/building-hardware/building-construction/ventilation/roof If the house is rented, negotiate with the owner about sharing the cost of insulation. This should be 150mm thick, and ensure it's not fibre glass which is not used in most countries. Polyester mix is safer for installers. Where in my post did I mention about filling the bowls with water? My point was the the metal bowls will absorb some of the heat. All the fans will do is just circulate the heat, they are not a solution to the problem. But one idea you have plonked into my mind is perhaps installing a large extractor fan inside the roof that may expel some of the hot air. Whatever, considering it`s a rental property the OP has 2 options, either spend some money on solving the problem or move if a solution is not viable. After 'absorbing' the heat what then do the metal bowls do with it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) I would like to ask the OP, how high is the actual roof of the house from the ceiling? Ours here is over 3 metres. If your roof is low than you have problems, it means there is no breathing space above the ceiling between the roof tiles for the hot air to circulate creating a very hot ceiling. If this is the case, then there is not much you can do about it. One method that maybe worth trying, is to purchase about 10 light weight aluminium or metal medium size washing up bowls and place them above the ceiling. These bowls will absorb some of the heat. That`s about all I can suggest. words fail me! You might as well cast spells on the roof. The roof temperature will be over 70C on a normal day and the bowls would need refilling every few hours. Cheapest way as I've suggested is to install a large industrial fan on a tripod near an entrance to the house and force air through the place. Next would be to fit 'cyclone' type ventilators on the roof. These rotate under their own power as hot air passes through them and will keep the roof cavity cooler than being totally blocked off as is usually the case. They are available in Thailand. http://www.twista.com.au/How-Roof-Vents-Work/ http://www.bunnings.com.au/our-range/building-hardware/building-construction/ventilation/roof If the house is rented, negotiate with the owner about sharing the cost of insulation. This should be 150mm thick, and ensure it's not fibre glass which is not used in most countries. Polyester mix is safer for installers. Where in my post did I mention about filling the bowls with water? My point was the the metal bowls will absorb some of the heat. All the fans will do is just circulate the heat, they are not a solution to the problem. But one idea you have plonked into my mind is perhaps installing a large extractor fan inside the roof that may expel some of the hot air. Whatever, considering it`s a rental property the OP has 2 options, either spend some money on solving the problem or move if a solution is not viable. After 'absorbing' the heat what then do the metal bowls do with it? Perhaps use the energy to power a small village or generate electricity for a school or something? Or there`s a hole in bucket dear liza, so what can I do about it? I don`t know, I`m only making suggestions, my guess is as good as anyone else's. Edited January 22, 2015 by Beetlejuice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante99 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 One method that maybe worth trying, is to purchase about 10 light weight aluminium or metal medium size washing up bowls and place them above the ceiling. These bowls will absorb some of the heat. Terrific idea, perhaps one of the all time best on Thai Visa. I am already filling my attic with metal bowls. Does anyone know where I can get another thousand? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimShortz Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 One method that maybe worth trying, is to purchase about 10 light weight aluminium or metal medium size washing up bowls and place them above the ceiling. These bowls will absorb some of the heat. Terrific idea, perhaps one of the all time best on Thai Visa. I am already filling my attic with metal bowls. Does anyone know where I can get another thousand? That's the best laugh I've had in a while! Why not put large heavy chunks of cast iron up there, or clay bricks? They could absorb some of the almost endless supply of daytime heat and re radiate it at night ensuring a more even roasting! Lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The main problem is it is a rental. If the owner is understanding or even smart minded about improvement benefit he may allow & even help pay for the insulation & exhaust fan. If not then of course you cannot make a hole in his roof to install the fan. Plus the cost of both the fan & the insulation is hard for you to justify in a rental unless you have a very long lease. The sprinkler rooftop cooling is a simple inexpensive option that does add quite a bit of relief It can all be done with inexpensive 3/4" blue pvc glue together pipe...or even hose & 2 or 3 sprinkler heads Then if your lucky enough to have rain gutters you could even catch the majority of water when it comes back down into a barrel & have a small pump recirculating it back onto the roof. But yes being a rental makes it tougher for sure...Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamboozled Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Thank you for all the feedback. Nobody latched onto my idea of the plastic silver tarp, however! I was hoping that was a brilliant idea. I have yet to see the top side of the roof nor have I found a hatch in the ceiling to get a look into what must be the space between the ceiling and roof; I assume there must be one. As for the roof, from looking at the edge it seems to be one of those wavy prefab "tiles" that are made of...well, not sure seem like cement but they're not that heavy. Do they support walking on? I think painting the roof silver or throwing the plastic tarp over it with some weights to keep it down might be the cheapest was to start and take it from there. I don't have a long term lease and not sure I want to stay where I am. Every month the landlady talks about how she wants to up the rent so I doubt she will be keen on pitching in on any improvements nor have they done any in the recent past from the looks of the place. I would love to put one of those whirly fans in. Who knows, maybe there already is one. I've got to get a look on the top and suss it out. The large industrial fan also sounds nice and I do always keep the windows open. Let's see if I can get a closer look.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveAustin Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Every month the landlady talks about how she wants to up the rent There it is then. Just move and let someone else have the problem of a boiling house and burgeoning rent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamboozled Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 yes, but moving is not a lot of fun, either. And I've only been here 4/5 months and the contract finished in August... And of course one has to find a semi-suitable place to move to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamboozled Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 But, point well taken. Will keep my eyes and ears open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinnieTheKhwai Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 words fail me! You might as well cast spells on the roof. The roof temperature will be over 70C on a normal day and the bowls would need refilling every few hours. Cheapest way as I've suggested is to install a large industrial fan on a tripod near an entrance to the house and force air through the place. Next would be to fit 'cyclone' type ventilators on the roof. These rotate under their own power as hot air passes through them and will keep the roof cavity cooler than being totally blocked off as is usually the case. They are available in Thailand. http://www.twista.com.au/How-Roof-Vents-Work/ http://www.bunnings.com.au/our-range/building-hardware/building-construction/ventilation/roof If the house is rented, negotiate with the owner about sharing the cost of insulation. This should be 150mm thick, and ensure it's not fibre glass which is not used in most countries. Polyester mix is safer for installers. Where in my post did I mention about filling the bowls with water? My point was the the metal bowls will absorb some of the heat. All the fans will do is just circulate the heat, they are not a solution to the problem. But one idea you have plonked into my mind is perhaps installing a large extractor fan inside the roof that may expel some of the hot air. Whatever, considering it`s a rental property the OP has 2 options, either spend some money on solving the problem or move if a solution is not viable. After 'absorbing' the heat what then do the metal bowls do with it? Perhaps use the energy to power a small village or generate electricity for a school or something? Or there`s a hole in bucket dear liza, so what can I do about it? I don`t know, I`m only making suggestions, my guess is as good as anyone else's. Only if everyone else is also just taking wild guesses and venting brain-farts. On the other hand, if some of those others are builders and/or have dealth with renovations before, then probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masuk Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The main problem is it is a rental. If the owner is understanding or even smart minded about improvement benefit he may allow & even help pay for the insulation & exhaust fan. If not then of course you cannot make a hole in his roof to install the fan. Plus the cost of both the fan & the insulation is hard for you to justify in a rental unless you have a very long lease. The sprinkler rooftop cooling is a simple inexpensive option that does add quite a bit of relief It can all be done with inexpensive 3/4" blue pvc glue together pipe...or even hose & 2 or 3 sprinkler heads Then if your lucky enough to have rain gutters you could even catch the majority of water when it comes back down into a barrel & have a small pump recirculating it back onto the roof. But yes being a rental makes it tougher for sure...Good luck A mate of mine in Australia did this. He built a large swimming pool, and then had water run down the iron roof, into the pool, where it was re-circulated back onto the roof. This was in Tasmania, the coolest state of Australia. Within 2 weeks, the water in the pool was so warm that no-one would swim in it. I really think we should start up an 'IGNOBEL" award for one of the craziest ideas of the year. Putting metal bowls (without water) into the roof space. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mousehound Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 There is a special thick white paint that is now used on buildings - often on water tanks to get the temp down. Silver tarps do work but will collapse quite quickly in my experience. I get tarps to last a year at the most before sun and abrasion destroy them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konisaan Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 OP. Your silver tarp idea might be the most cost effective and give the best results. White plastic sheeting would be less effective but probably cheaper. You just need a way to secure it properly. There are many ways to deal with your problem as you can see from people's posts. Aside from the above, the cheapest way that I can think of is to buy yourself a roll of insulating foil at the hardware store and go up into the roof cavity and lay it out yourself. If you do this then be very careful to do it safely, ie 1) can you walk around safely in the roof cavity, 2) electrical wires Obviously it would be better to persuade the landlord to organise a trades person. You should point out how it will make the property more rentable. Offer to split the costs and you should be able to make a deal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokay Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 We moved out of a rental because of exactly this and the land lord didn't even want to share the cost of insulating or installing an exhaust of any kind. WARNING: Many of the things you are afraid will get ruined, will. I lost a lot of things due to the heat. Pretty much anything with plastic on it was damaged. A lot of the plastic became very sticky and it would never correct even in cooler temperature. It's best you move anything like that downstairs and into a cooler place, or it will ruin them. Count on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmficc Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I have made a study of this when I was in hotel biz in USVI. silver does not work well. White is what you want. Reflectivity is the key. Use an outdoor white paint good enough to cover well or mix a slurry of white Portland cement and broom on.,whichever is cheaper. Insulation is $$ however, the first inch is the most effective inch so,one might do it esp. if foil backed but must not be used indoors (foam) unless cover with an a fireproof barrier. Venting if the landlord allows would be of benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arunsakda Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 As it is a rental the only economic solution is to move house. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante99 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Roof sprinklers with external piping could be installed for a few thousand baht on most houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedy Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You like the house ? Location OK ? Plan on staying past expiration of current rental agreement ? Talk to the owners. Maybe split cost to insulate. Good for you - cooler house. Good for them - half price improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinnieTheKhwai Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Yeah.. although it's not an investment that immediately translates in a better rental price. Not as much as building a nice kitchen or something. That said, splitting the cost could still be an interesting proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredge45 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 From my observations, Thai builders have no thoughts about ventilating attic spaces. Adding screened openings under the eaves (soffit area) can help a lot if you don't want to go to the expense of insulating or installing roof vents. At least then you will get some cross ventilation of the attic space. Insulation is great but will not help much if you don't get some air exchange going in the attic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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