17 foreign ‘English teachers’ arrested in Chiang Mai for working illegally

[aTomsLife]

Why they couldn't have done the same thing from home is beyond me. The so called employer needed to have these guys working at distance from home and no one would have been any the wiser.

Time zones. UK and US based, they'd be working during prime drinking and "sleeping it off" hours if their market was Chinese students.

Oh, and taxes (and probably minimum wage laws).

No, no. By "home" he means their domiciles in Chiang Mai. Not their home countries.

Edit: with an answer like that, I see you're living up to your username.

Edited January 23, 2015 by aTomsLife

[John1thru10]

"No work permits were three Americans, a Canadian, a German, a Dutch national, two Irish nationals, two Britons and two Australians."

Really no way, American, Canadian , Brits, Irish German and a Dutch ? They can't be doing wrong??

They are the quality tourists here right?

Send them back to where they came from

Why don't you go back to where you came from, and learn a little world history about the way nations are created. Every time people start speaking like you do, it usually signifies fascism is setting in. An educated person would know that, and a thinking person would care.

Edited January 23, 2015 by John1thru10

[gigman]

Very smart nazi move....

Just kill education .....

Well let Thai's to learn English by themself.

Did they took anyone job in Los ??

It is not about rules it is about arresting people for the reason .... ; they teach (Good on you Thai's)

[balo]

First of all they were stupid , they should have known the risks.

They could have done the same job from their private home , instead of organize it like this for anyone to see. Sooner or later someone will tip the immigration.

And secondly, they could have done this legally in Thailand , working as digital nomads and get paid abroad and pay taxes outside of thailand.

I am a digital nomad myself but I would never work like this in a group of people and for a Thai company without work permits.

If someone in China calls me on Skype tonight and wants me to teach him some English I will do it from my living room , and ask him to transfer money to my foreign paypal address, and nobody will ever find out .

Edited January 23, 2015 by balo

[chickenrunCM]

Anyone know what type of work permit they could apply for in order to work 'online'?

nobody can give you a workpermit for working outside thailand, only for work online for a thai company,

and again its not again the law to work online outside thailand, this case is not the same,

they working for thai limited company without work permit, completely other story

[Guest]

Is this the same Thailand that had the commercial about the backpacker who lost his stuff, hooked up with a bar girl and on an over stay ... WORKED on a dive boat?

That Thailand?

[gigman]

"No work permits were three Americans, a Canadian, a German, a Dutch national, two Irish nationals, two Britons and two Australians."

Really no way, American, Canadian , Brits, Irish German and a Dutch ? They can't be doing wrong??

They are the quality tourists here right?

Send them back to where they came from

Ye ye ye............You are so right all the time in your so right life....

" send them back"......?

Maybe better to kill them .... DON"T YOU THINK OR WISH??

[chickenrunCM]

Look out all who are working at home online! I wonder how they found out I guess someone talked. I have met many who run online businesses from home in Thailand, everything from selling on ebay, to accountancy programs and support, even property you name it someone is doing it. Always thought it a good idea after all how can they catch you?

who got catched?

this is a story about a office of a thai limited company who employ people without work permit,

if somebody work at home online is not against law, how long he/she offer service inside thailand

i guess even monkeys will understand this earlier than some TV members, nobody ever got accused or fined,

because there is no work definition or permit to get for this.

[John1thru10]

First of all they were stupid , they should have known the risks.

They could have done the same job from their private home , instead of organize it like this for anyone to see. Sooner or later someone will tip the immigration.

And secondly, they could have done this legally in Thailand , working as digital nomads and get paid abroad and pay taxes outside of thailand.

I am a digital nomad myself but I would never work like this in a group of people and for a Thai company without work permits.

If someone in China calls me on Skype tonight and wants me to teach him some English I will do it from my living room , and ask him to transfer money to my foreign paypal address, and nobody will ever find out .

You did not read another story today, my friend. The likelihood of people knowing what you do online has just increased dramatically, in Thailand. Look for the other item today about an end to internet privacy by the Junta.

[balo]

First of all they were stupid , they should have known the risks.

They could have done the same job from their private home , instead of organize it like this for anyone to see. Sooner or later someone will tip the immigration.

And secondly, they could have done this legally in Thailand , working as digital nomads and get paid abroad and pay taxes outside of thailand.

I am a digital nomad myself but I would never work like this in a group of people and for a Thai company without work permits.

If someone in China calls me on Skype tonight and wants me to teach him some English I will do it from my living room , and ask him to transfer money to my foreign paypal address, and nobody will ever find out .

You did not read another story today, my friend. The likelihood of people knowing what you do online has just increased dramatically, in Thailand. Look for the other item today about an end to internet privacy by the Junta.

Even if the Junta can see my online activities there's no reason to arrest me as long as I do not worlk illegally in Thailand for a Thai company or have business in Thailand. I can show them my contract as freelance agent with international companies and the small work I do from my laptop if they're interested. Also all the e-mails I receive and send that is work related. But I am not so sure that they can control all the online activities even if they talk about it.

[greenchair]

i wouldnt want unqualified teachers teaching me either, whats the problem?

not fair for those who actually went through school to learn proper ways to teach.

In any other country it is illegal for people to work without work permits, its almost like white people think they have carte blanche to do whatever the hell it is they want to do, and feel as if they are being targeted specifically.

Wake up and open your farang eyes, you are nothing special in the global neighborhood...play by the same rules as everyone else, your not special and dont deserve any special rights, English is not a skill just because you can speak it - get a real job.

kudos to those who have actually had training to teach and have proper work permits.

Other countries have strict discrimination laws. It is illegal to stop someone from taking a job (any job ) because of the color of their skin or nationality. 2nd, in other countries you open a business and own 100% and hire how many workers you need or work alone. Most of the jobs available here require a degree. But do not pay a salary worthy of a foreign degree. Like many people. I am married to a non degree thai with a low salary. I have put 2 Thai children through university. And care for a 3rd , since his own people refuse to care for him. I have over 20 years helped thousands of children and adults to improve their English. It is not a crime to give a knowledge to people who need that skill so badly.

Quite frankly the average thai does not care about a degree. They just want to practice with native speakers who are fun to be with. Thai law does not allow us to get a work permit or have a job to support our families.

[John1thru10]

First of all they were stupid , they should have known the risks.

They could have done the same job from their private home , instead of organize it like this for anyone to see. Sooner or later someone will tip the immigration.

And secondly, they could have done this legally in Thailand , working as digital nomads and get paid abroad and pay taxes outside of thailand.

I am a digital nomad myself but I would never work like this in a group of people and for a Thai company without work permits.

If someone in China calls me on Skype tonight and wants me to teach him some English I will do it from my living room , and ask him to transfer money to my foreign paypal address, and nobody will ever find out .

You did not read another story today, my friend. The likelihood of people knowing what you do online has just increased dramatically, in Thailand. Look for the other item today about an end to internet privacy by the Junta.

Even if the Junta can see my online activities there's no reason to arrest me as long as I do not worlk illegally in Thailand for a Thai company or have business in Thailand. I can show them my contract as freelance agent with international companies and the small work I do from my laptop if they're interested. Also all the e-mails I receive and send that is work related. But I am not so sure that they can control all the online activities even if they talk about it.

I hope you are always right about that. Technically speaking, one isn't even allowed to volunteer here without a wp. I know what you mean, they 'shouldn't' care - but, they shouldn't have (imho) gone out to round up all middle eastern looking people last month to justify the Thong Lor reports, either. The scary part I find about Thailand since the coup, is the scapegoating.

Edited January 23, 2015 by John1thru10

[kennypowers]

Anyone know what type of work permit they could apply for in order to work 'online'?

As recently confirmed by immigration, you don't need one. The foreigners arrested in Chiang Mai at a co-working space previously for working illegally were let go immediately after the Police realised they were working online and not for Thai companies, as suggested by the snitch - who was trying to make trouble for the owner of the co-working space.

[mok199]

this country is so stuck it is pittyfull,full of fear and greed...keep speaking pigdog english..''litten bit,no pompem''...

[lumply]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

Most likely not, but the law states that they were indulging in an activity that required a WP, so they were acting illegally, hence their current predicament.

[impulse]

But less appalling than the responses on thaivisa, which seem more evil and criminal than a couple of TEFL guys teaching to Chinese. I mean really, who cares?

Who cares?

Every legitimate tourist and legal long stay foreigner who is now getting the latex glove treatment at immigration. And all those who may be getting the latex glove in the future.

You sound like you definately deserve the latex glove treatment

lol. Agree. Really odd and funny seeing these people on this forum thinking some people without WPs is the most heinous crime out there and that it affects them somehow; it doesn't.

As someone brilliantly put above, what if the tables were reversed and some Thai person in the UK or somewhere went online and made some money teaching Thai to someone in China; would they be up in arms about this? No. Bunch of hypocrites, bitters and whingers who can't seem to relax without wondering what others are up to.

Yep, I freely admit that I get hacked off when I see knuckle draggers hopping off the plane, treating Thai laws as a joke, verbally abusing the locals who don't understand their every shouted demand, stumbling around drunk at all hours in their best Sunday wife beaters and cut-off shorts (in the CBD of the capital city, no less), sticking their thingies into every hole they can find, and then wonder why so many Thais have little or no respect for foreigners.

Frankly, I don't blame them.

Like it or not, your behavior does affect those of us who choose to live here. It affects the way we'll be treated by the Thais who are disgusted by the behavior of the knuckle draggers, and justifiably hacked off that they have to accept that kind of behavior because "they need the tourist dollars".

[siampolee]

Iimpossible post t# 232.

So they took out this infested rat hole. Good on them! That will set the example for the rest of the lot! These leeches need to be eradicated, because they are the ones that spoil it for the impeccable ones! Why can't they follow the ever changing rules?? Don't they understand that it doesn't matter that even if they have been teaching legally for many years with a work permit, and built a life here, because it was perfectly fine to teach without a degree - it is now time to say goodbye to their wife or gf and kids, and head back to where they came from 5, 10 or 15 years ago, without them, and be satisfied with an occasional visit to the LoS?

Amazing post

While I am all in favour of visa's being used for the purpose they are designated and assigned too I find the post above in extremely bad taste those people who were nabbed were no doubt under the impression they were legal as no doubt their employers were too based on the recent comments of the top immigration man in Chang Mai.

However kudos to the quoted poster as it must be the first time a transplanted anus has actually posted in a public domain.

Edited January 23, 2015 by siampolee

[Fookhaht]

Throw the book at 'em!!

Signed,

A teacher who has spent more than 40,000+ baht over 13+ years on work permits--not to mention, the countless hours on documentation and trips to government offices.

If I can do it, they can do it.

[wolfmanjack]

To me the most criminal act in the whole thing is Americans teaching English

Depends on what state they are from but i can honestly say that I have met many english that I can not understand a damn thing they say. I have never had an englishman say the same about me or ask me to repeat myself.

[Hawkman]

Yep, I freely admit that I get hacked off when I see knuckle draggers hopping off the plane, treating Thai laws as a joke, verbally abusing the locals who don't understand their every shouted demand, stumbling around drunk at all hours in their best Sunday wife beaters and cut-off shorts (in the CBD of the capital city, no less), sticking their thingies into every hole they can find, and then wonder why so many Thais have little or no respect for foreigners.

Frankly, I don't blame them.

Like it or not, your behavior does affect those of us who choose to live here. It affects the way we'll be treated by the Thais who are disgusted by the behavior of the knuckle draggers, and justifiably hacked off that they have to accept that kind of behavior because "they need the tourist dollars".

I won't argue at all with what you say above, completely agree - I also get annoyed and can't stand all those types too; but some guys without the proper visa, to many Thais and other expats and farang it's not an annoyance at all. I know a few Thais and Chinese who work in the UK and they don't have the right visa. Does it bother me? Not in the slightest.

I'd rather have some friend in my circle and many Thais would as well, that isn't on the right visa than any of those vile humans you describe above.

[Hua Laan]

Again and again so many TV veterans who are annoyed by Thai laws, rules and regulations and the way these are enforced upon foreigners. We all know that and still we choose to stay here. Why? How do we respond to foreigners in our homecountries who not abide the law?...........Oh these guys were only teaching Polish, that doesn't harm our economy?.........give me a break.

Yes a lot of rules are annoying and hypocrit. But still every year I have my blood checked on syfilis, I prove I am not an alcoholic or a drug addict etc. because the law forces me to do that in order to get my WP extended. I personally hate it, but that really doesn't matter. I could choose to terminate my WP and move to some more foreigner friendly country, but I don't.

Also every year I need to sign around 300 copies of paperwork and of course pay my fees and last but not least waste my time at immigration and the labour office. All of this to do an honest job in a large well known Thai company. Ridiculous? Maybe, but reality. But if you are somebody that teaches the noble English language these rules should suddenly not apply? What about Russian, Arab, Farsi, German or whatever?

Just as in your homecountry as a foreigner you need a work permit here, if not you might be prosecuted as an illegal worker. And might be arrested just like in the UK, Germany or whatever developed country in the world, like it or not.

These people were working in a Thai organised company, on Thai soil, for a Thai salary. Seems very clear to me, what is this discussion about? If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen...........

And for those who think that only British people can teach proper English: keep in mind that abroad there are tens of thousands university educated fine English teachers...........

[asean]

Online english lessons to china? was it the abc boileroom company?

[Eaglekott]

......and about 6 months ago (when all the new rules were going into effect) the head of immigration in Chiang Mai got up and said that if you were doing online work for work outside Thailand, you didn't need a B visa or a work permit........................

They never said you could do that if you are employed by a Company registrated in Thailand and get salary in Thailand.

[gigman]

That's what happened now will spread the news around the world to other's who was thinking to teach in Los.

They will think twice before they decide to come to Los and try to teach under so strickt rules just for peanuts and so nice treatment and respect from Thai's.

Anyway , even those who had WP still was a bad guys in eyes of hunters... ;

"The remaining foreigners had passports and valid work permits but were in breach of work conditions."

What the F****king conditions????

Now I am realy confused .....who will teach them....Chinese ???

[Lukecan]

Go back to your home country young lads, respect the laws. Thailand is for old sex tourist retirees only, they are the quality tourists, not you. Only they have a right to live here, dont come here and toughen up the competition for them, the girls love their buddha bellies btw. And to teach english you need to be british, and speak it with a perfect accent!

Edited January 23, 2015 by Lukecan

[ChiangraiTony]

Does anyone know how this sting operation came about? Maybe it was a tip-off or maybe it was the Thai authorities snooping and monitoring IP addresses. This may be the beginning of something big and maybe more will follow.

[Graham8888]

If BOI 360 Max Co. is based in Thailand, I can understand, but if not, then this is almost petty. What next checking your work emails in Thailand whilst on holiday or in transit, is working?

Well I think whatever grey exists, and I think there is grey area, by having an established and visible physical office location in Thailand where multiple staffers showed up regularly ... they crossed it.

Like the boiler rooms operating in bangkok , etc. for the last 25 years without being shut down ??!!

[anon022]

Iimpossible post t# 232.

So they took out this infested rat hole. Good on them! That will set the example for the rest of the lot! These leeches need to be eradicated, because they are the ones that spoil it for the impeccable ones! Why can't they follow the ever changing rules?? Don't they understand that it doesn't matter that even if they have been teaching legally for many years with a work permit, and built a life here, because it was perfectly fine to teach without a degree - it is now time to say goodbye to their wife or gf and kids, and head back to where they came from 5, 10 or 15 years ago, without them, and be satisfied with an occasional visit to the LoS?

Amazing post

While I am all in favour of visa's being used for the purpose they are designated and assigned too I find the post above in extremely bad taste those people who were nabbed were no doubt under the impression they were legal as no doubt their employers were too based on the recent comments of the top immigration man in Chang Mai.

However kudos to the quoted poster as it must be the first time a transplanted anus has actually posted in a public domain.

Seems you have missed the point completely, and btw, you are breaching the rules of TV. Personal attacks aren't allowed.

[gemguy]

Dear me, with all the human and drug trafficking going on, child exploitation, slave conditions for fishermen, deaths in the south, murders on various 'idyllic' islands, harassment of tourists by bent cops, they bust a handful of foreigners teaching English to outsiders on the internet! Just no hope really is there.

Dave Austin: I totally agree with you.

The Police need to use more discretion when it comes to such non issues and non important matters such as some foreigners working here in Thailand while they do not have all the proper documents....

They did not bust them because they were breaking the law per say..as they do not care about that aspect...rather they busted them so they could learn just how much money is being generated and figure out if it is worth while letting the business continue and make a percent off the business.....and or how much money they can extort out of the foriegners.

If that is not the case..... then occasionally the police will enforce the laws to make themselves look good....as in look at us we caught some international illegal workers....and they are white folk also.

Besides, the enforcement of the work permits is the responsibility of the Labor Department...not the local police, while the immigration police department, specifically is responsible and not just any old police headquarters in the general area that gets wind of some minor infractions of the law and a victimless crime that really does not warrant any worthwhile attentions on the part of the Authorities.....certainly not the street level police as they have far more important matters to attend to as you have pointed out.

If the company is found to be running some sort of criminal enterprise such as a boiler room scam or anything like it then certainly they have the understanding and support of everyone.........but the teachers and foreign employees, per say, are not the ones to be focused on and should not be in the headlines at all ...ever.

As I said before......the onus is on the Thai owners or who ever the owner of the company is to arrange all the proper and necessary and required documentation for the foreign worker....FIRST.

If the Owner or Management of the said company does not do their part FIRST...then the foreigner can not do their part and obtain what is required ...by the letter of the law ...that they enforce on the foreigners only ...but never enforce the laws on the Thai owners or Thai management of the company....at least not that I have ever heard about and I can only surmise never happens.

They never fine or hold the Thai companies or the Thai owners or the Thai management responsible or accountable for breaking the related employment laws and labor laws or immigration laws while having foreigners work with them or for them while the foreigners do not have the proper Visa or proper extension of stay because the Thais not do their part ..FIRST.

I would like to see the owners of the company take some responsibility for their complicity and the problems they create and the laws they break.

Better yet, the current government should be totally trashing the archaic existing system and the very frustrating existing means and ways for a foreigner to work here legally ....as in a much easier way to obtain the necessary permission and documentation to work for a Thai company...right here in Thailand.

Maybe a $1000 dollar a year payment obtains a person legal permission to work for a Thai Company...and comes with a one year Visa extension and a work permit, all included.

I know, wishful thinking but it needs to be said.

Cheers

Edited January 23, 2015 by gemguy

[JoeLing]

thai people should speech no fluent english only broken english as english is now officialy the language for the second class.

Persons non fluent, unable to spell and use proper grammar, in writing the English language, should refrain from doing so.

Try this: http://www.allthetests.com/searcher.php3?quiz=grammar%20pedantry%20syndrome