How come there's such a small percent of the foreigners who can speak proper thai?

[DA3NDORPHIN3]

Title...

I'm from France and i would say that 70-80% of all foreigners who live there for several years can speak french on pretty good level and have great understanding.I lived in Germany for several years too where the situation was the same.

Been living in Thailand for many years and so far i've seen very few foreigners who can talk proper thai and can understand usual conversations between thais.Now,i'm guilty too for knowing only basic thai,but i must say,it seems that the one's who can actually talk proper thai can feel very special about their knowledge.

I was actually reading a while ago on some thai language blog that basically there're 3 kinds of thai lang. learners.It was really interesting and i would very much agree to that:

1.The ones who know only basic/survival thai and never make an effort to actually sit and learn(500 words AT MOST,hard to understand due to complete tone mispronunciation.(Most of the time spend in "farang bubble world")

2.The ones who have intermediate knowledge(1000-2000 to 3000 words at most,some knowledge about tones).But end up giving up at some point when their thai become "sufficient".Never actually learn daily,end up forgetting many words and most of the words are staying in their passive vocabulary.THE MOST usual group of foreigners.Can engage in conversation but their vocabulary and tones are limiting them.

3.The ones who actually devote their time to learn thai(5000+words in vocabulary,proper tones,vowels),devote their time to watch thai movies/shows etc. to get a grasp of the language in every way they can.Less than 1% of all foreigners (The 3rd one is very hard task,requires daily learning,repeating words,repeating tones for every words that you know and actually remember those tones,reading books).

[brewsterbudgen]

Because it's very difficult and not essential.

[His Masters Voice]

Because it's very difficult and not essential.

I lead a comfortable life without a desire to learn the language.

And no, I don't 'live in a Farang bubble'.

But some people learn it tone perfect and I think that's great.

[jamles]

The jump from 2 to 3 is a very big one. It takes a lot of time and serious effort.

[BangnaBound]

It comes down to cost and benefit. French and German are much easier to learn for most foreigners than Thai, so the relative cost of learning Thai is higher. Then on the benefit side, French and German more are widely spoken than Thai, also there is a financial incentive for foreigner in those countries to learn the local language. Learning Thai has neither of these benefits.

And finally as my ex-Thai wife put it, anyone you can have a real deep and interesting conversation with, probably speaks English. This isn’t a knock on Thai speakers, but more of an observation that if you are intelligent and motivated, you will probably want to learn English. Most of the best English speaking Thai’s that I have met have been self-taught, grew up very poor, and now have very successful careers. I would consider myself in your #2 category. I have hit the point of diminishing return; it would be irrational to learn anymore for any reason other than a hobby.

[SoiBiker]

Laziness.

[billd766]

Deafness and tone deafness make learning spoken Thai quite hard.

[phuketsub]

I think fewer foreigners who come here now feel like they need to know it, and to some extent that may be true.

When I moved to Bangkok 25 years ago you really had to learn it just to get by. You had to watch Thai TV because there were no other options, for example.

With Google Translation, torrent downloading, and all of the other advances in the digital age, it has expanded content to the point where everyone can just live in their own little info-bubble if they want.

The irony is that there are now so many excellent resourced to learn Thai now.

Back in the day all we had was the Mary Haad dictionary and AUA books.

[swampdonkey]

Laziness.

Another fine reply from you.

[SoiBiker]

Laziness.

Another fine reply from you.

I couldn't be bothered to type anything else.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

It comes down to cost and benefit. French and German are much easier to learn for most foreigners than Thai, so the relative cost of learning Thai is higher. Then on the benefit side, French and German more are widely spoken than Thai, also there is a financial incentive for foreigner in those countries to learn the local language. Learning Thai has neither of these benefits.

French and German people quite like foreigners to learn their language and are only too happy to help.

Most Thais just say "arai na" to everything a foreigner the farang says (then giggle).

French and German languages are often taught by experienced educationalists who have spent many years teaching.

Thai is taught by a drama graduate who looks pretty in a short dress.

Edited January 25, 2015 by AnotherOneAmerican

[thaichalina]

The jump from 2 to 3 is a very big one. It takes a lot of time and serious effort.

That is so true.All the friends that i knew,including myself,gave up from learning after some time.All eagerness one has when starting to learn thai just disappears after some time.We've all gave up from language and then coming back back and forth but in the end we always stayed in the same position.Many people make excuses to stop learn thai like " i can talk english in bangkok",but thai knowledge on english is really poor and it's hard to have good conversation and actually understand people and their opinions,thoughts.That's why you see many people assuming much about thai people but actually don't have a clue because of heavy language barrier.If thai didn't have tones and some crazy pronunciation it would be much easier language.It takes so much time and dedication for that third step.

In most languages it's just about learning vocabulary,talk and that's it.In thai it's about learning vocabulary,learning tones for each word(it's very important to remember them,different tone=different meaning),tone rules,alphabet,consonants,short-long vowels and some other things that are equally important.It's very hard language,much harder than some people think and i admire you all who can speak it on decent level.

[Aforek]

I would say that I am at the end of 2 and start going to the 3; I speak enough to say many things in every day life, Thai people understand me and don't ask me to repeat, but as to be fluent one day, no !!; 1000 words more and I stop, no need to go further ( I read too, everyday , school books or easynovels )

I am French too, and I have met and worked with foreigners who spoke very good French, as said above: they seemed to be fluent ; why ?

because if you live for ever in France, you have to speak the language, don't think you can do it in English, French are not good for foreign languages ( Not gifted, bad teaching at school ? )

for Thai language , I don't think it's a so difficult language but to be fluent seems to me too much work ; why to be fluent ? 3-5000 words, you can say everything you want

Edited January 25, 2015 by Aforek

[GotR1GHT]

I would say that I am at the end of 2 and start going to the 3; I speak enough to say many things in every day life, Thai people understand me and don't ask me to repeat, but as to be fluent one day, no !!; 1000 words more and I stop, no need to go further ( I read too, everyday , school books or easynovels )

I am French too, and I have met and worked with foreigners who spoke very good French, as said above: they seemed to be fluent ; why ?

because if you live for ever in France, you have to speak the language, don't think you can do it in English, French are not good for foreign languages ( Not gifted, bad teaching at school ? )

for Thai language , I don't think it's a so difficult language but to be fluent seems to me too much work ; why to be fluent ? 3-5000 words, you can say everything you want

as for me,i set my goal to 6000 words along with correct tone.It's a VERY hard task though,but i think that's enough for everything i want to say.After that i won't be learning new words except getting some new from the context and in everyday speech if i stumble upon one occasionally.

[jamles]

How does one actually count the words that one knows? For me it's just a guess to nearest thousand or so.

[GotR1GHT]

How does one actually count the words that one knows? For me it's just a guess to nearest thousand or so.

I've written in my notebook every word that i have learned

[sirineou]

Because it's very difficult and not essential.

also difficult to teach an old dog new tricks

[jamles]

How does one actually count the words that one knows? For me it's just a guess to nearest thousand or so.

I've written in my notebook every word that i have learned

That's an excellent idea! Keep it up!

Any suggestions for us lazy people that have been negligent with that for several decades?

[eric67]

That's an excellent idea! Keep it up!

Any suggestions for us lazy people that have been negligent with that for several decades?

You can do a vocab test to get a rough estimate of how many words you know, like this one:

http://linguee.me/vocabularytest/index

[GotR1GHT]

That's an excellent idea! Keep it up!

Any suggestions for us lazy people that have been negligent with that for several decades?

You can do a vocab test to get a rough estimate of how many words you know, like this one:

http://linguee.me/vocabularytest/index

i got 5,100 words.Not too bad considering i know a bit less than 4,000(based on words that i've written in my notebook).

http://i.imgur.com/WD4wYcX.jpg

What's your score,guys? (no cheating please )

Edited January 25, 2015 by GotR1GHT

[poweratradio]

Because it's very difficult and not essential.

I lead a comfortable life without a desire to learn the language.

And no, I don't 'live in a Farang bubble'.

But some people learn it tone perfect and I think that's great.

Some people also have a knack for languages but I sure don't. 6 Years of French study in Canada> Failed every year. Have a door that closes for French but somehow while living in Beirut for 2 years learned enough Arabic to know I wouldn't starve or get lost or when my death might be imminent.

[poweratradio]

It comes down to cost and benefit. French and German are much easier to learn for most foreigners than Thai, so the relative cost of learning Thai is higher. Then on the benefit side, French and German more are widely spoken than Thai, also there is a financial incentive for foreigner in those countries to learn the local language. Learning Thai has neither of these benefits.

And finally as my ex-Thai wife put it, anyone you can have a real deep and interesting conversation with, probably speaks English. This isn’t a knock on Thai speakers, but more of an observation that if you are intelligent and motivated, you will probably want to learn English. Most of the best English speaking Thai’s that I have met have been self-taught, grew up very poor, and now have very successful careers. I would consider myself in your #2 category. I have hit the point of diminishing return; it would be irrational to learn anymore for any reason other than a hobby.

Beautiful and well put observation by your ex-wife. My current wife has kept the circle of educated friends from university around her and those have their educated friends.

Something I learned along time ago in my youth from my Dutch in-laws while in Holland that if their is 1 one person in a room who does not speak the language of general communication but everyone in the room speaks the language of that one 1 person then the language spoken is changed for that person.

I mentioned this to my wife and she insists that her friends must speak english when I am present. The only time Thai is spoken in my house is when I need to know what someone is saying on TV exactly discounting sub-t's

[tgeezer]

Posted in error, I mistakenly thought Thai used 'com' for 'comment' but that is wrong they use 'com' for computer!

Edited January 25, 2015 by tgeezer

[tgeezer]

I think that Thai is completely different from European languages, people are taught a grammar which is against their nature and that is what they teach us but it isn't what people use when they are familiar with one another. Thai is supposed to be simple and fun: take; 'comment', 'Facebook' they are "men" "fait", imagine that that is being done to all the lovely vocabulary you have learnt then trown together in a seemingly random fashion.

[ExPratt]

My East London accent is my biggest Handicap . Its the proper pronunciation of the vowels that messes me up (Even in English).Also its very difficult for Foreign English speakers to understand me even if I slow right down. I even struggled the other day in a coffee shop , I wanted a Latte , the bird behind the counter didn't have a clue what I wanted, so it was pointing at the Menu time. I asked my Thai speaking kids about it and they reckon I pronounce it Larty. They think its hilarious when we go out and I try speaking Thai

[jamles]

That's an excellent idea! Keep it up!

Any suggestions for us lazy people that have been negligent with that for several decades?

You can do a vocab test to get a rough estimate of how many words you know, like this one:

http://linguee.me/vocabularytest/index

i got 5,100 words.Not too bad considering i know a bit less than 4,000(based on words that i've written in my notebook).

http://i.imgur.com/WD4wYcX.jpg

What's your score,guys? (no cheating please )

Thanks for the link, eric67. I'm not sure how accurate the test is, but it's quite consistent. I took the test 3 times (it changes words each time) and scored 2599, 2665 and 2799. 5000 is probably a pretty good base to be able to carry on a reasonable conversation.

[CaptHaddock]

That's an excellent idea! Keep it up!

Any suggestions for us lazy people that have been negligent with that for several decades?

You can do a vocab test to get a rough estimate of how many words you know, like this one:

http://linguee.me/vocabularytest/index

i got 5,100 words.Not too bad considering i know a bit less than 4,000(based on words that i've written in my notebook).

http://i.imgur.com/WD4wYcX.jpg

What's your score,guys? (no cheating please )

I got 5,065, but I think I pretty sure that I know more than that since my flashcard database has 9,922 words and phrases. The test slights the more advanced words like วิวัฒนาการ กฎอยการศึก ธนาธิปไตย ผลิตภัณฑ์มวลรวม เจาะลึก สารระเหย และอื่นๆ

To the OP at the beginning you might get the impression that mastering the tones is the main problem for Westerners learning the language. In fact, you will be able to produce and recognize the tones fairly quickly if you have a good teacher to correct you. After that there remain many levels of difficulty to master the language such as the levels of usage such as slang, spoken, written, formal, semi-formal, literary, poetic, rachasap, etc. All languages have similar distinctions, but they are more important in Thai than in European languages. Pronoun usage is vastly more complex than in a language like English. Combining verbs in idiomatic narration is yet another skill. And so on.

So, there is a long row to hoe and for most Westerners here it isn't worth it. It can't be necessary if someone like Bill Heinecke can become a billionaire in Thailand on a vocabulary of no more than 100 words. In most cases, the limiting factor in learning languages is insufficient motivation. For those willing to put in the effort there is a reward in understanding the society and culture that is worth it.

[questionsreplies]

Because this language is useless and totally unclear even for Thai who do not understand each others ?

In case you want to know i speak Thai fluently and think i wasted 3 years of my life leaning this shiiite....

[questionsreplies]

I wish them not to understand the culture and society too much or they will leave....

That's an excellent idea! Keep it up!

Any suggestions for us lazy people that have been negligent with that for several decades?

You can do a vocab test to get a rough estimate of how many words you know, like this one:

http://linguee.me/vocabularytest/index

i got 5,100 words.Not too bad considering i know a bit less than 4,000(based on words that i've written in my notebook).

http://i.imgur.com/WD4wYcX.jpg

What's your score,guys? (no cheating please )

I got 5,065, but I think I pretty sure that I know more than that since my flashcard database has 9,922 words and phrases. The test slights the more advanced words like วิวัฒนาการ กฎอยการศึก ธนาธิปไตย ผลิตภัณฑ์มวลรวม เจาะลึก สารระเหย และอื่นๆ

To the OP at the beginning you might get the impression that mastering the tones is the main problem for Westerners learning the language. In fact, you will be able to produce and recognize the tones fairly quickly if you have a good teacher to correct you. After that there remain many levels of difficulty to master the language such as the levels of usage such as slang, spoken, written, formal, semi-formal, literary, poetic, rachasap, etc. All languages have similar distinctions, but they are more important in Thai than in European languages. Pronoun usage is vastly more complex than in a language like English. Combining verbs in idiomatic narration is yet another skill. And so on.

So, there is a long row to hoe and for most Westerners here it isn't worth it. It can't be necessary if someone like Bill Heinecke can become a billionaire in Thailand on a vocabulary of no more than 100 words. In most cases, the limiting factor in learning languages is insufficient motivation. For those willing to put in the effort there is a reward in understanding the society and culture that is worth it.

[thaichalina]

Because this language is useless and totally unclear even for Thai who do not understand each others ?

In case you want to know i speak Thai fluently and think i wasted 3 years of my life leaning this shiiite....

Unclear even for thai who do not understand each others? you must be joking..

I would really like to see how fluently do you speak