General question.

Big thai developer buys land from Western owner.

Contract made regarding payment and default clause agains late or non payment

Buyer pays 20mb which is approx 15% of total price

Buyer seriously defaults.

Buyer claims completely nonsense excuses to delay payment

Seller is completely in the right

Seller sends canx contract via lawyer

Buyer gets letter but wants to keep the land and draw out the problem to create time to pay

Buyer wants to work the legal system to create delay in payment to unfairly get additional time to pay.

We get conflicting information from lawyers.

Lawyer 1. The buyer can react on receipt of letter and claim in the court and could take 2 years to get an answer from the judge, in the mean time the seller can do nothing!

Lawyer 2. Same as above but the buyer gets a max of 6 months for the case to be heard.

Presuming the seller is totally correct, Does the seller really have to wait so long when he is correct?

How can a western own land?

How can a western own land?

He has a company, but this is not the point.

Unfortunately, the Thai courts are used to delay and delay by miscreants, which it seems to favour.

Remember, this is a country where the truth is not a legitimate defence for libel and slander.

Sounds like a mess. Good luck with that.

Big Thai developer vs farang doesn't sounds like the odds will be in the sellers favour if he has connections, which they will most certainly have so working the law is well within the buyers rights so you can't do anything.

Just ride it out.

Sounds like a mess. Good luck with that.

Big Thai developer vs farang doesn't sounds like the odds will be in the sellers favour if he has connections, which they will most certainly have so working the law is well within the buyers rights so you can't do anything.

Just ride it out.

All very well, so long as the seller can afford the legal fees, time, delays, and even more delays.

This sounds like one of those deals where someone usually ends up dead, on Phuket.

Why you trusted a Thai and only got 15% down! you were taken. They know how to use the courts. You will spend the next 20 years in court. Insist on cash down or bank to finance.

This sounds like one of those deals where someone usually ends up dead, on Phuket.

Link me one source of a land sale ending in murder.

Your imagination is running wild again.

For the sums involved, if I were the seller, I would make 100% sure that I wasn't physically in Thailand.

You say the 20 mb is 15%, so about 113 mb still owed.

For less than 0.1% of that sum, a nice man from Surat Thani could come and 'remove' you from the equation.

Think about it.

Can't you just give him his 20mb back and tell him to get lost?

This sounds like one of those deals where someone usually ends up dead, on Phuket.

Link me one source of a land sale ending in murder.

Your imagination is running wild again.

I can't. They were never murdered. They "jumped" off their balcony.

This sounds like one of those deals where someone usually ends up dead, on Phuket.

Link me one source of a land sale ending in murder.

Your imagination is running wild again.

There are a few articles about murders over land disputes. Here's one of them.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Murder-ultimate-risk-Phuket-land-it-trigger/10721

For the sums involved, if I were the seller, I would make 100% sure that I wasn't physically in Thailand.

You say the 20 mb is 15%, so about 113 mb still owed.

For less than 0.1% of that sum, a nice man from Surat Thani could come and 'remove' you from the equation.

Think about it.

Even if they do kill the seller, they don't automatically get the land if the owner is killed.

Wouldn't that just make it harder for the buyer to complete the deal?

For the sums involved, if I were the seller, I would make 100% sure that I wasn't physically in Thailand.

You say the 20 mb is 15%, so about 113 mb still owed.

For less than 0.1% of that sum, a nice man from Surat Thani could come and 'remove' you from the equation.

Think about it.

I think you mean Nakhorn Si Thammarat.......

don't bring or invest in anything in Thailand that you are not prepared to lose

I think you mean Nakhorn Si Thammarat.......

I was quoting 'grade 2'

Link me one source of a land sale ending in murder.

Doesn't always make the headlines. My first architect was 'removed' over a 20 mb land plot.

Even if they do kill the seller, they don't automatically get the land if the owner is killed.

Think 'corrupt land office officials...' Just because you legally own the land doesn't mean 'you legally own the land'. That can be changed on a whim - I have seen this happen.

Anyway, going off-topic. I really cannot understand why the seller did not insist on full cash payment upfront - they will have a lifetime of headaches trying to get this problem resolved.

Why you trusted a Thai and only got 15% down! you were taken. They know how to use the courts. You will spend the next 20 years in court. Insist on cash down or bank to finance.

I would not have done it with this client anyway, but people buy and sell land everyday like this. It is normal to take a deposit until the client gets the rest of the money together? It happens everyday

How can a western own land?

He has a company, but this is not the point.

i bet the buyer is whipping up plenty of anti farang owning Thai land through dodgy companies hysteria, so i'd be worried about that

Can't you just give him his 20mb back and tell him to get lost?

Does not want the money back, they want the land. Need more time to pay.

Why you trusted a Thai and only got 15% down! you were taken. They know how to use the courts. You will spend the next 20 years in court. Insist on cash down or bank to finance.

I would not have done it with this client anyway, but people buy and sell land everyday like this. It is normal to take a deposit until the client gets the rest of the money together? It happens everyday

I think anyone on here talking on murdering people is getting out of hand. I only want to know if anyone has experience in a long drawn out dispute on finalizing something legally about this subject? Other details are not requested by me. Anyway thank you.

All the lawyers seem to have conflicting information.

There is an ordeal like this going through the courts on a certain Beach project in Rawai where there were paid off officials ( these same officials were named in the DSI probes) and fake tide lines drawn. Someone has sued them, now after a few years a judgement is in, but word is the verdict is being "delayed". Andrew Drummond had an article on this. Land cases can be drawn out as long as envelopes come in.

It happens everyday

Not in Thailand, (if you have any sense).

It would be bad enough if it were a Thai-Thai deal.

But this is a non-Thai:Thai deal, and xenophobia and the applicable land ownership laws come into play - and the buyer can/will exploit and highlight those laws to their advantage

I'll say no more, other than wish you the best of luck

This sounds like one of those deals where someone usually ends up dead, on Phuket.

Link me one source of a land sale ending in murder.

Your imagination is running wild again.

Francis Degioanni murdered by Diana Goh Li Fun over a land deal / development deal.. Patong in what 09 ??

In fact was our own moderator case not partly involving land ownership ?

The guy shot in the neck in hua hin.. Both he and the developer was known to my hua hin mates.

These are not rare incidents..

Why you trusted a Thai and only got 15% down! you were taken. They know how to use the courts. You will spend the next 20 years in court. Insist on cash down or bank to finance.

I would not have done it with this client anyway, but people buy and sell land everyday like this. It is normal to take a deposit until the client gets the rest of the money together? It happens everyday

That may be normal.. I would say transferring the land asset before payment is made in full (or at least a lot more than 15%) is unusual..

At this stage who actually owns the land and what registered liens are recorded on it (by whom).

This sounds like one of those deals where someone usually ends up dead, on Phuket.

Link me one source of a land sale ending in murder.

Your imagination is running wild again.

Francis Degioanni murdered by Diana Goh Li Fun over a land deal / development deal.. Patong in what 09 ??

In fact was our own moderator case not partly involving land ownership ?

The guy shot in the neck in hua hin.. Both he and the developer was known to my hua hin mates.

These are not rare incidents..

The difference is that in those cases the killer profited from the killings, whereas here killing the seller would not help the buyer at all, the issues would remain.

This sounds like one of those deals where someone usually ends up dead, on Phuket.

Link me one source of a land sale ending in murder.

Your imagination is running wild again.

Francis Degioanni murdered by Diana Goh Li Fun over a land deal / development deal.. Patong in what 09 ??

In fact was our own moderator case not partly involving land ownership ?

The guy shot in the neck in hua hin.. Both he and the developer was known to my hua hin mates.

These are not rare incidents..

The difference is that in those cases the killer profited from the killings, whereas here killing the seller would not help the buyer at all, the issues would remain.

That's exactly what I mean.

With the seller dead, his next of kin would inherit the land or company holding the land and would no way benefit the buyer with the seller dead.

It would probably buy him more time so is that extra time worth the murder? I doubt it.

This sounds like one of those deals where someone usually ends up dead, on Phuket.

Link me one source of a land sale ending in murder.

Your imagination is running wild again.

Francis Degioanni murdered by Diana Goh Li Fun over a land deal / development deal.. Patong in what 09 ??

In fact was our own moderator case not partly involving land ownership ?

The guy shot in the neck in hua hin.. Both he and the developer was known to my hua hin mates.

These are not rare incidents..

The difference is that in those cases the killer profited from the killings, whereas here killing the seller would not help the buyer at all, the issues would remain.

Firstly.. HG asked for a single case where land (by extension property) deals ended in murder.. These seem all too common..

Secondly it depends on structure.. If the OP is as stated it seem the land deal is done (Big thai developer buys land from Western owner) implied it is already 'bought' ie transferred.

In which case it is now simply the debt / payment of the 85% shortfall..

If thats the case, I would be sleeping in a different bed each night !!

EDIT :: If it isnt already transferred.. The seller is holds the cards, its up to the buyer to fight for their contractual rights and thats tough.. hence why I was asking the specifics of whose name the land is now is what liens have been registered on the land document, who is in possession of the papers etc..

Hope the OP was not involved as the broker, could be sued as well.

Why you trusted a Thai and only got 15% down! you were taken. They know how to use the courts. You will spend the next 20 years in court. Insist on cash down or bank to finance.

I would not have done it with this client anyway, but people buy and sell land everyday like this. It is normal to take a deposit until the client gets the rest of the money together? It happens everyday

"It is normal to take a deposit until the client gets the rest of the money together?" - "Come back and see me when you have 'the rest of the money together' - until then, the land stays on the market. Have a nice day."

Job done.