Thai opinion: The Ugly American is alive and kicking

[HeijoshinCool]

You know what, they endlessly go on about 'face', yet millions in their population live in poverty with poor educational standards whilst the rich cream the lot. We can see it. Other countries can see it. Internationally Thailand has no 'face'. Hell, look at the human trafficking and slavery category they just won!

Start sorting out the problems, get back to a democratic system and learn to live by the rule of law, take care of your people's futures and maybe, just maybe, you Thailand, might just get the 'face' you so crave.

As an American I'll say:

If we just had drop-dead gorgeous women everywhere we looked that were dying to jump in the sack for a few bucks, we'd have absolutely ZERO use for Thailand.

We're stuck with mostly fat cows for women and laws against the world's oldest trade.

.

I am sorry you live in Arkansas.

[wwest5829]

" Many Thais reacted with fury " but how many ordinary Thais know anything about this ? They don't seem to react unless somebody winds them up or there's an incentive.

I've never seen Thais exhibit much interest in the news, only this week I asked a friend what she thought about having to register her SIM card and she had no idea what I was talking about. She doesn't read newspapers !

I've seen very FEW Thais read anything... well lottery winning numbers..... but anything substantial/informative ? LOL Not lately. They seem to really live in a "bubble/shell." At least that's my impression of most of the Isaan folks.

I would wish it were otherwise but for the vast majority of the world's population this is a truism. In this regard, I think Thais are not that different. That is why the majority is happy with the allowance of the junta, yet again, in Thai politics. Most folks just want to carry on with their local lives.

[maidee]

USA not my uncle

thailand has nothing to learn, they know all the best

also how to magically make 800 billion baht disappear without anyone going to jail for it

[AGareth2]

Thailand will not be a hub of anything in ASEAN if they walk away from the US.

International investors will invest elsewhere such as Indonesia.

it is already happening

Talk is cheap, trade is essential

Edited January 30, 2015 by AGareth2

[BKKdreaming]

ummmm damn americans..........yeah thats it,,,,,

Now what station is the super Bowl on and can I have mustard on my hot dog ?

oops.......I am really Eskimo........umm Canadian Eskimo.......really I just happen to have a USA passport.....

[off road pat]

" Many Thais reacted with fury " but how many ordinary Thais know anything about this ? They don't seem to react unless somebody winds them up or there's an incentive.

I've never seen Thais exhibit much interest in the news, only this week I asked a friend what she thought about having to register her SIM card and she had no idea what I was talking about. She doesn't read newspapers !

You are so right in this statement....!

most Thais know nothing about the important news....they watch stupid sitcoms all day.....and know everything about the private life of the TV and movie stars....

[oneday]

"If we comply [with US wishes] … and lift martial law..." "...The US envoy also urged Thailand to end martial law..."

If you comply...now that's putting words in the US's mouth. I feel sure that all the US is doing is expressing their disappointment about martial law being still in place for so long or they are saying they do not like it or any number of other things that DO NOT amount to TELLING Thailand what to do. Urged is not telling Thailand to do anything and how do we know exactly what the US envoy said when there are no quotes from him used in this report.

"...The outcry against the US..."

Give me a break. The only outcry I've heard is from the junta government and certain reporters.

"...Russel's remark hit a nerve among many Thais, who are yet to recover from a bitter political divide..."

Oh, I'd love to see a poll showing a break-down and how Thais really feel along with their affiliation (Bangkokian elite/yellow shirt or red shirt or some other party or even neutral). It's amazing how this reporter tries to speak for the whole country. This report is so incredibly biased it's trash reporting.

"...against Russel's intervention..."

"...Russel's remark hit a nerve..."

"...Russel seemed to show his sympathy towards Yingluck..."

All of the above ARE quoted from this reporters article and yet I see not one quote from Mr. Russel so we know exactly what he said. This is all hearsay and therefore pure drivel.

Yes, there is no question the US is against martial law still being in affect and that elections are still so far away and probably a few other things, but what is really being said. There are no quotes. The reality is this is all probably coming from the fact the envoy met with Yingluck and another ex-PM or two and snubbed Prayut.

[Bluespunk]

Like Thais could do without seven-eleven.

None of us can.

I can. Hardly ever been in one apart from when travelling and stop for fuel then it is normally just stretching the legs in the aircon. I come from Aust and wouldn't even know where find one there.

Best place to pay bills for me. Especially expat tv.

Always good place to get drink of water from, always have the brand I like.

Don't live in them but they are useful.

[Bluespunk]

'The incident brings to mind "The Ugly American", a film made more than 50 years ago during the cold war. It portrayed America's arrogant behaviour towards a third-world country.'

Arrogance is a two way street.

The author of this piece needs to think on their own attitudes.

Ugly, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

And as for this

"If the US continues to practise double standards in its foreign policy and to display its "Ugly American" attitude, Thais have the right to say enough is enough. Times have changed. The US should learn to treat other countries on equal terms."

Double standards? Treating others as equals?

​Hilarious.

Hilarious that you can't understand what double standards means. When last did USA demand democracy from your great allies the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia?

I'm not american, my country is too small to have any allies or influence.

The point is the author is a Thai complaining about double standards and not treating others equally.

Anyone living here can see the irony in that.

Unless you are completely blinkered it is visible everywhere.

I understand very well the hypocrisy that exists in geo political statements of idealism.

The thing is do you get the hypocrisy in this article or just don't want to because that would be "Thai bashing".

Jesus, any criticism or pointing out of the obvious is just too much for some.

Or do you just dislike america so much you churn out trite like this?

Edited January 30, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Horton Jones]

And so it began, and so it advances: now it's the MEDIA that is criticising free speech! I'm amazed this article is in The Nation newspaper. This "reporting" is inflammatory and really could be labelled a rant, devoid of heart or fairness, and rather full of malice.

1) Where does the analogy to "The Ugly American" come from? THE AUTHOR, Thanong Khanthong. And by extension, the Editors at The Nation that approved it. While I suppose it is creative writing, it is out of place, and quite biased, for remarks made only about whether there is fair treatment of a former Prime Minister, and urging Thailand to end martial law and return to democracy. Fine, talk about that; those remarks. But bringing in this Ugly American analogy is not helpful to dialogue and -- if anyone cares -- insulting to Americans in Thailand, or anywhere for that matter. I am going to contact my consulate about this, and also The Nation newspaper. Thailand has strong laws on libel and slander. UGLY AMERICAN? I shall not say the reverse insult to you Mr. Khanthong, but I very well may be thinking it.

2) As a former journalist myself I would like to question these statements by The Nation: "Many Thai's reacted with fury", and "Russell's remarks hit a nerve with many Thai's" and "enraged many Thai's". Three very strong statements, alluded to as fact. Okay, if that is true, publish some QUOTES, as a good and fair-minded journalist normally would. Or, how about showing the "fury" in a photo? Surely Thai's have taken to the streets and are burning USA flags and lynching Obama effigies?

By the way, the quotes that ARE offered here are much more "Thai-style", and not inflammatory or slanderous: Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha commented that "It saddens me that the United States does not understand the reason why I had to intervene and does not understand the way we work, even though we have been close allies for years." And likewise, Deputy Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai kept a level head and had nothing inflammatory to say. And yet, we have the Ugly American theme. This is not just shoddy journalism, it's reprehensible. I hope you're taken to task by someone.

3) In yet another shocker for this article, the author engages in his own analysis of American foreign policy, bringing in simplified criticism of US relations with Cuba, Egypt, Ukraine, and Saudi Arabia. Decrying -- obviously with rancor -- some remarks by Assistant Secretary Daniel Russel about Thailand, yet himself "sticking his own nose" into another country's affairs in a critical way.

But here is my perhaps surprising response: THAT IS PERFECTLY OKAY, criticise all you want! In my country it is called "Free Speech" and it's embedded in the Constitution. Don't malign the questioner man, try answering the question.

Unfortunately, free speech seems increasingly not tolerated here in Thailand, and could -- I hope not -- possibly get worse if not guarded more diligently. Perhaps this is a wake-up call that other governments, ex-pats and open-minded, freedom-loving Thai's need to speak out MORE.

Lastly, I want to mention again that it is very interesting in Mr. Khunthong's The Nation article, that the quotes from government ministers are rather benign, though making their point, and it is the MEDIA, (which in most countries are champions of free speech) that are indignant and apparently, "full of fury." I'll be interested to see any fallout or apology for this article. Perhaps some Thai's will actually heed outside advice, rather than throw mud at it like spoiled teenagers.

[NCC1701A]

Daniel Russel works for Obama.

Obama despises the US military and all military everywhere.

A man like PM Prayut Chan-o-cha is going to be hated NO MATTER WHAT.

and most Thais have no idea where the USA is... and have no idea what the issue is...

Edited January 30, 2015 by NCC1701A

[TomJoad]

I'm surprised at just how clueless the USA has been about Thai politics and what goes on here (I'm American). Our foreign policy towards Thailand seems tone deaf.

Maybe it's because the US ambassador never had to walk through a protest site where someone had just thrown a hand grenade the day before and killed innocent bystanders...? The military cleaned the site up within a week after the coup. Now if they can just do something about the tuk-tuk drivers.

Edited January 30, 2015 by TomJoad

[rijb]

I'm surprised at just how clueless the USA has been about Thai politics and what goes on here (I'm American). Our foreign policy towards Thailand seems tone deaf.

Maybe it's because the US ambassador never had to walk through a protest site where someone had just thrown a hand grenade the day before and killed innocent bystanders...? The military cleaned the site up within a week after the coup. Now if they can just do something about the tuk-tuk drivers.

Why don't you write your congress person? Or get a new passport?

PS: Your allowed to criticize your government.

Edited January 30, 2015 by rijb

[theslime]

We Aussie,s as deputised Deputee,s by Bush the loon, support our Sheriff,s policies all the way, as we are sheep. Baa.

[slipperylobster]

I am an American...and actually have been told bluntly, very ugly...to boot.

So, whenever I feel down about being an Ugly American...

I take a stroll down Walking Street in Pattaya.

Any lady who calls me Ugly, will not get a drink.

Guaranteed I will be broke in 3 minutes.

And feeling Handsome as all get out.

Mr. Russel may want to get some ego stroking there as well.

Good for both the big head, as well as your smaller head.

Edited January 30, 2015 by slipperylobster

[NongKhaiKid]

Surprised no one has mentioned the movie ' The Quiet American ' set in Sth. Vietnam with the CIA stoking the fires.

[brucegoniners]

The Ugly American? Don't use my name in vain

[2fishin2]

I'm surprised at just how clueless the USA has been about Thai politics and what goes on here (I'm American). Our foreign policy towards Thailand seems tone deaf.

Maybe it's because the US ambassador never had to walk through a protest site where someone had just thrown a hand grenade the day before and killed innocent bystanders...? The military cleaned the site up within a week after the coup. Now if they can just do something about the tuk-tuk drivers.

They arent clueless thats why the rep was sent here.

How many Thai politicians have visited the world trade center?

[lildragon]

Thais? Most Thais won't even know this is happening. The only ones offended will be the yellow high sos that think they know it all.

[paddyjenkins]

Oversensitive, self entitled, self righteous, self important, throwing tantrums like small children, carping and jumping up and down at the slightest little criticism. Im not an American but my general feeling when i read of this thai fury is to blow a very loud raspberry at these thai idiots....

Edited January 30, 2015 by paddyjenkins

[Wat dee]

All these misunderstandings could have been avoided. Why not just let US pick the suitable military junta, as they have in most coups after the WWII.

[Godders]

This David and Goliath publicity stunt won't cut any ice at home or abroad.

When it comes practicing the democracy they both so loudly preach, the US and Thailand are clearly two cheeks of the same ugly backside.

[Bluespunk]

" Many Thais reacted with fury " but how many ordinary Thais know anything about this ? They don't seem to react unless somebody winds them up or there's an incentive.

I've never seen Thais exhibit much interest in the news, only this week I asked a friend what she thought about having to register her SIM card and she had no idea what I was talking about. She doesn't read newspapers !

You are so right in this statement....!

most Thais know nothing about the important news....they watch stupid sitcoms all day.....and know everything about the private life of the TV and movie stars....

To be fair that's most of the UK and the USA as well these days.

[Utley]

The US never learn...not even when is living in a totally "New World" and "Global Economy".....In the 60's and 70's with the excuse to win the Cold War with Russia, the US/CIA get into internal affairs in democratic countries in South America replacing Democratic Governments with Military Dictatorships, killing thousand of innocent people in the way....Chile, Argentina, Brazil.... thousands of innocent people. Others have to get into exile to save its lives.

After 50 years of control and corruption, even with the end of the Cold War, those countries, and most South America countries are now elected Democratic Socialist Governments, doing better economically without the US help, and getting into alliances with Russia, China, etc. Mexico is getting close to that, even with so close connection with the US. Sure, the US propaganda never will admit that.....like never will admit that the US is making a mess getting into Muslim countries now...killing more this time...and its own people.

The US sub-estimated South America, and it doing the same with Asia...and its will have a surprise again...Prayut Government was not imposed by any foreign "CIA"....and its is very Thai...foreigners like it or not. Prayut becomes a very popular leader. His lack of Politic "education" may be not good for PR with other politicians...but.....he connects very well with PEOPLE...and Thailand, like any country in the World, belongs to its PEOPLE, and Prayut will become an elected PM if he runs for it. No doubts about, and better to the US understand that.

And you know this......how?

[zydeco]

Now i see a problem with the usual self righteous thai bashers.

Here's the deal. If you have been reading this forum long enough you would know that the shinawatras aren't loved here and the fact that they have chinese blood in them makes it even worse.

Then you have america supporting the shinawatras and questioning the present thai govt which causes the US to be bashed and that's a big no no here it's just the typical farang reaction obviously. It's also not a coincidence that the ones that support america and the rest of the west happen to be anti thaksin/shinawatra so now they are in a fix. Thaksin being chinese = china and an american official asking for a fair trial and getting bashed by the thai side well they cannot support the american side now cos that means supporting thaksin and the chinese side.

Off your med's again? "The shinawatras aren't loved" err sorry mate but you are so far off the mark it's almost sad, how do you think they keep wining elections if they are not loved? and please not the buying votes BS.

"It's also not a coincidence that the ones that support America and the rest of the west happen to be anti thaksin/shinawatra so now they are in a fix"

Do you even live here mate? or just a once a year type guy? that thinks he knows it all? You don't have a clue really now do ya.

I live in a very red area and until the coup OVERTLY red with banners, posters and even large cardboard figures of YL on the highway but they've all gone.

My local mom and pop store used to have pictures of Mr. T etc at the front of the store but as soon as martial law was announced they were moved to the corner of the back wall and cannot be seen from the outside. Probably prudent since the store is about 100 yds from one of the entrances to an army camp.

The love for the Shins is still there and will come out into the open as soon as the time's right and they are free to express themselves.

Yep, sounds like Stalin's Soviet Union or Mao's China, which is exactly what the Reds wanted, especially with the Communists and allies of the Khmer Rouge as the core of their leadership.

[cup-O-coffee]

Much ado about nothing, or... moreover... a means to distract yet again from anything substantial; ...if they even could manage to imagine what that might be.

People who do not have a clue will do everything in their power to yap about something else, whether as a declarative (digression), or as a response to a direct question (more digression or even deference).

I utterly agree with the posters, who have the view that most people don't know. They simply are clueless. They couldn't even tell you what they ate for breakfast yesterday.

The Sun set yesterday, and not a damn thing changed. Even the wind from their lungs could be heard blowing in the breeze.

...Next!

[zydeco]

The US never learn...not even when is living in a totally "New World" and "Global Economy".....In the 60's and 70's with the excuse to win the Cold War with Russia, the US/CIA get into internal affairs in democratic countries in South America replacing Democratic Governments with Military Dictatorships, killing thousand of innocent people in the way....Chile, Argentina, Brazil.... thousands of innocent people. Others have to get into exile to save its lives.

After 50 years of control and corruption, even with the end of the Cold War, those countries, and most South America countries are now elected Democratic Socialist Governments, doing better economically without the US help, and getting into alliances with Russia, China, etc. Mexico is getting close to that, even with so close connection with the US. Sure, the US propaganda never will admit that.....like never will admit that the US is making a mess getting into Muslim countries now...killing more this time...and its own people.

The US sub-estimated South America, and it doing the same with Asia...and its will have a surprise again...Prayut Government was not imposed by any foreign "CIA"....and its is very Thai...foreigners like it or not. Prayut becomes a very popular leader. His lack of Politic "education" may be not good for PR with other politicians...but.....he connects very well with PEOPLE...and Thailand, like any country in the World, belongs to its PEOPLE, and Prayut will become an elected PM if he runs for it. No doubts about, and better to the US understand that.

Apparently, you haven't looked lately. Venezuela and Brazil are a mess. Argentina just saw a prosecutor murdered because he was about to testify that the country's president is in bed with Iran and covering up an Iranian terror attack in Buenos Aires against a Jewish cultural center 20 years ago. South America is more full of despots, rogues, killers, and terrorists than at any time in its history. Some progress.

[Karlos11]

Americans .. We know you are the world police the peacekeeper ... But effin hell ,, why cant you just mind your own business ? Why do you have to stick your nose in ! You have got problems in your own country that needs taking care of. No wonder thais increasingly showed alot of dislikes against foreigners, specially western tourist as if they have a sense of entitlement . In my opinion countries like russia , china , north, cuba korea, parts of middle east showed dislike and indignance towards americans for that same reason.. Like an annoying parent telking you how to live your life

[binjalin]

" Many Thais reacted with fury " but how many ordinary Thais know anything about this ? They don't seem to react unless somebody winds them up or there's an incentive.

I've never seen Thais exhibit much interest in the news, only this week I asked a friend what she thought about having to register her SIM card and she had no idea what I was talking about. She doesn't read newspapers !

You are so right in this statement....!

most Thais know nothing about the important news....they watch stupid sitcoms all day.....and know everything about the private life of the TV and movie stars....

To be fair that's most of the UK and the USA as well these days.

Whilst that may be true at least we (Brit's at least) don't have all those "Whoosh" and "Weeee" and "Kabaam" type sound effect intrusions which make me feel like I'm in kindergarten again (maybe I AM!)

[MJP]

Americans .. We know you are the world police the peacekeeper ... But effin hell ,, why cant you just mind your own business ? Why do you have to stick your nose in ! You have got problems in your own country that needs taking care of. No wonder thais increasingly showed alot of dislikes against foreigners, specially western tourist as if they have a sense of entitlement . In my opinion countries like russia , china , north, cuba korea, parts of middle east showed dislike and indignance towards americans for that same reason.. Like an annoying parent telking you how to live your life

Well, perhaps they know something.

Put this and this . . .

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/795969-martial-law-to-be-strictly-enforced/

. . . together.

Perhaps I'm adding 1 + 1 and coming up with 9. Dunno. But the future for Thailand right now looks decidedly . . .