Staying in Thailand for online work, what is the situation now?

[yellowboat]

Cambodia is a much easier option visa wise than Thailand, and the Internet is faster. Accroding to Thai law you are considered to be working and not a bonafide tourist. Cambodia does not see you as working. Also, if you want software written, Saigon is an interesting place.

Thailand is just not the same any more.

[Pattaya46]

rubbish. Vientienne has internet.

??? Who said there was no Internet in Vientiane ?

What I said is that there are many "online works" you can't do with just a notepad or notebook, and/or that you can only do at your desk, in your home or office, with a descent work configuration (multi-screens, multi-computers, ...)

BTW if there is of course Internet available at Vientiane, it's quality is not so good and reliable. Just ask online poker players what they think about it...

[rwdrwdrwd]

They do not break the rule that employment is prohibited, but they break the rule that working without a work permit is prohibited.

Alien Working Act B.E. 2551 (2008)

Only if their activity is considered to be work. It certainly is not clear what 'work' is from the definition in that Act, and it's therefore a stretch to declare that someone who earns money offshore for any specific online activity is 'working' for the purpose of the act without any precedent demonstrating that as the interpretation taken by the court. As opposed to, say, someone 'sending an email' or 'balancing their portfolio', or indeed 'reading a book' or 'walking down the street'.

For every case that goes to court, the judge - not the members of Thaivisa - will decide individually whether the accused is guilty or not.

Precisely

I wonder if we will be reading the outcome of the case of the 17 foreigners recently arrested in Chiang Mai for allegedly "providing online English classes to people in China". In the meantime, if anybody can post links to translations of past court decisions about foreigners "staying in Thailand for online work", I am sure that readers would be interested in perusing them.

It won't be relevant, even when/if it happens, these foreigners were hired within Thailand by an entity operating an office in Thailand and being paid in country in Baht. They were not individuals that have independent offshore sources of income, they were hired in country by a company in Thailand that happened to have foreign clients.

I'm all ears about any past court decisions, despite searching extensively, I cannot find a single one, either in Thailand or anywhere else around the world.

Edited February 1, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[yellowboat]

For every case that goes to court, the judge - not the members of Thaivisa - will decide individually whether the accused is guilty or not.

Precisely

I wonder if we will be reading the outcome of the case of the 17 foreigners recently arrested in Chiang Mai for allegedly "providing online English classes to people in China". In the meantime, if anybody can post links to translations of past court decisions about foreigners "staying in Thailand for online work", I am sure that readers would be interested in perusing them.

It won't be relevant, even when/if it happens, these foreigners were hired within Thailand by an entity operating an office in Thailand and being paid in country in Baht. They were not individuals that have independent offshore sources of income, they were hired in country by a company in Thailand that happened to have foreign clients.

I'm all ears about any past court decisions, despite searching extensively, I cannot find a single one, either in Thailand or anywhere else around the world.

They were working in Thailand. Thailand makes no destinction paid or unpaid and they do not care where the money comes from, they want you to have a work permit or you are asked to pay somebody off if caught. People building boats in their backyard are consideered to be working illegally if they do not have a work permit. The rules are silly.

[jpinx]

The cost of staying on double entry tourist visa is perhaps 7,000 - 17,000 Bt an year, depending on location. Compare to the "bargain" of 100,000 an year, paid in full for 5 years, not refundable.

The cost of the Tourist Visa option is far more than that in this case. You forgot the 2 or 3 days where he cannot work because of his visarun to Vientiane or some other place abroad. These are lost days for his work/business. And he has at least to make 2 or 3 visaruns a year.

Everyone calculates to support their view A visa run from Bangkok with the On Nut Tesco guys (not sure if I can mention their name?) is probably the cheapest for just getting a new entry stamp. Add the costs of getting a few extensions from Wattana, and however many times he'd need to get a new visa from Savanakhet or where-ever. That would involve a hotel as well. How much lost income for many days out of work in a year? Then add the hassle factor -- sometimes the visa runs don't go all that smoothly.

Anyway -- each to their own and I hope the OP sorts out a suitable solution, though it has to be said that Cambodia sounds cheap and cheerful. I was there some years ago and like it well enough.

[theonetrueaussie]

bottom line...Stay in cambodia or find a friendlier place. I know when my rental agreement runs out I will be heading straight for korea and japan!!

[rwdrwdrwd]

They were working in Thailand. Thailand makes no destinction paid or unpaid and they do not care where the money comes from, they want you to have a work permit or you are asked to pay somebody off if caught. People building boats in their backyard are consideered to be working illegally if they do not have a work permit. The rules are silly.

I agree that they were considered to be working in Thailand, simply due to the fact they had answered a Thai job advert, were being paid in Thailand in Baht, and were attending a Thai based office for a third party to perform their duties for an Employer which has clearly been shown to be considered as 'working' by many prior court cases. The fact the end clients happened to be in China and duties were performed using the internet is a bit of a red herring in terms of parallels with people that earn offshore money due to online activity - in this case there was an Employer in between, certainly operating in the manner of a Thai company if not registered as one.

What I don't agree with is that any form of activity that earns income outside of Thailand is necessarily considered to be work for the purpose of the Act we're discussing. The problem is that the definition of 'work' does not define 'work'. There is no direction whatsover beyond it including 'exerting energy' and 'using knowledge'. Given this, either any physical or mental activity is 'work' (including 'walking', 'breathing' or 'smiling'), or guidance has to be taken from prior court decisions.

This is not even getting on to where the line is drawn between 'posting on a forum', 'posting on Facebook', 'posting on a blog', 'sending an email', 'writing a book', 'updating your own website' or 'updating somebody else's website'. Perhaps they are all 'working', we can't really tell from the Act itself what activity is, and what activity is not, all we can look at is prior application of the legislation.

What prior application shows is that:

[A] - If you are getting paid in Thailand, you are DEFINITELY 'working'.

- For any unpaid mental or physical activity whatsoever you might be 'working'.

Seems to me that act is structured in such a manner that anyone can be pulled in to court for anything whatsoever. Hence, precedents are the only real guidance on interpretation.

Edited February 1, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[paz]

The cost of staying on double entry tourist visa is perhaps 7,000 - 17,000 Bt an year, depending on location. Compare to the "bargain" of 100,000 an year, paid in full for 5 years, not refundable.

The cost of the Tourist Visa option is far more than that in this case. You forgot the 2 or 3 days where he cannot work because of his visarun to Vientiane or some other place abroad. These are lost days for his work/business. And he has at least to make 2 or 3 visaruns a year.

Not everyone that works online is paid per day or per hour. One can also travel on weekends. Staying on Tourist visa is not convenient, but not very expensive.

[Zumteufel]

If you wish to work in Thailand, a work permit is needed. It really is that simple. And if you plan to stay here long term, starting a company is something that enables you to sleep better at night (at least it did for me - I'm working online as well, no Thai customers).

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The rules are as they are.

And yes, I don't know of people having problems/being arrested for violating those rules, but those rules are there.

which rules? (i hope not the one that defines all action including breathing as working.. )

i was under the impression this is a grey area, did something change?

It remains grey as long as the online worker doesn't openly discuss what they are doing.

By bringing the focus of attention onto themselves, then the colour changes......................

For any country's authorities to focus on internet access, IP traffic and content is expensive and time consuming. But, this is not saying that it doesn't happen because it does, but for more important reasons and more specific targets than simple online business.

Still OP, doesn't help with your visa situation.

[gk10002000]

Elite Visa is the best option to stay in Thailand for the OP, in my opinion. Ed Visa might be the second choice since the OP implied he was interested in staying in Thailand, learning about it etc. That might be a good option for the first year

[Maestro]

We are digressing. We should not be talking about certain types of online activities, eg sending an email, not being work.

This topic is about work, about work being done online; the OP has made this the topic of this discussion. It is not for us who are replying in this topic to suggest that whatever unspecified activity the OP had in mind when he started the topic is not work.

Therefore, let us get back to WORK, back to the topic, back to talking about work and nothing but work.

[jpinx]

If the OP was operating a server in another country, on behalf of a customer in another country and was being paid in another country, the only thing he's actually doing in Thailand is using an internet connection. I know it's grey, but I honestly don't believe that the OP would be at any risk unless he starts talking about what he's doing on a forum like this or in a bar, etc. If he annoys his thai neighbours/girlfriend -- that might trigger a complaint too. Hopefully he will not post any more in here -- thereby reducing the "footprint" about his intentions, but equally hopefully he will read all these comments

[Colabamumbai]

I do not mean to be rude, but you are better off where you are. I have visited Thailand since 1973 and have lived here more than 5 consecutive years now, and Cambodia seems like a better option.

There's a well thought out and profound assessment. 5 years living within easy reach of Cambodia and yet ...

And yet my talents are still wanted and needed here.

[elviajero]

I have an O visa which states "Employment Prohibited" which, in my opinion, is key. Although employment would always involve work, work doesn't always involve employment. As the remark on the visa specifies employment I don't think it's a grey area at all, and as long as someone isn't engaged in employment within Thailand they do not break the rule.

...

They do not break the rule that employment is prohibited, but they break the rule that working without a work permit is prohibited.

Alien Working Act B.E. 2551 (2008)

Ah yes the act that defines working as 'working', then repeatedly mentions:

Section 7, 'career opportunities of Thai people' and 'national development' implying that requirements stipulated upon alien work are done so when it involves something that might take away jobs from Thai people or directly affect Thailand by way of the work's physical presence

Section 8, limiting the number of 'craftsmen' doing 'works in the Kingdom' and refers to those who 'employ' aliens under contract

Section 9, the restricted jobs list which again is stuff like unskilled craftsmen, manual laborers, not people with amazon affiliate blogs and adsense sites lol

Sections 15-20, again refers to aliens being 'employees' of a Thai 'employer', and said entity deducting part of the alien's 'wages' towards a repatriation fund, implying 'work' entails being paid in Baht

Clear as mud.

Not one instance of the word 'online' or 'offshore' on any of the 15 pages. Lots of instances of 'Baht'

Persona non grata in Thailand are defined as those who enter the Kingdom to take up employment as laborers or practice other forms of manual work that require no special skill or training' http://www.thaivisa.com/392-0.html

It's common sense that the alien labor act doesn't apply to someone being paid USD in paypal for their ebook sales and them transferring that offshore sourced money into Thailand to spend and support their lifestyle. In fact you're also persona non grata if you have 'no appropriate means of living once in the Kingdom' (category 2 on the above link')

Besides Jingthing has twice the posts you do and says it's fine to work online

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/794216-17-foreign-english-teachers-arrested-in-chiang-mai-for-working-illegally/page-5#entry8975527

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/794216-17-foreign-english-teachers-arrested-in-chiang-mai-for-working-illegally/page-18#entry8979947

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/794216-17-foreign-english-teachers-arrested-in-chiang-mai-for-working-illegally/page-18#entry8980414

I agree that the acts clear intention is to protect Thai jobs and lay out the rules for Thai companies employing foreigners. But because they don't define working beyond 'working' it seems that anyone working in the Kingdom needs a work permit regardless of who (Thai or foreign) is supplying the work. Working online to produce income is working by any definition and without a work permit is illegal.

And when I help out my in-laws, unpaid, on their farm (land I paid for, in my wife's name that I can't own) I'm breaking the law and could face 5 years in a Thai prison. Unless of course I agree to leave my wife and son and exit the country within 30 days!!

I don't beleive the act was meant to cover such a wide net. It needs amending, and to acknowledge that, in this day and age, aliens can live in Thailand and run business's abroad that has no negative affect on Thailand.

I'm sure a Judge would apply common sense and interperate the act as it was intended, but I wouldn't want to test that

[jspill]

Easy then go and walk into your DOL / immigration department and tell them you work on line etc etc and get a letter off them then ?

One needs a piece of paper to work, so if someone truely doesn't need a WP for on line work I am sure your local DOL will give you as bit of paper stating such, scan it and post on TV when your done, there's a good chap, if your convictions on this matter are so strong and it is legal, then getting a definitive answer from your DOL should be easy then

If I walked into my local DOL I don't doubt that I could potentially encounter the Thai version of you, someone who thinks the internet is all porn and gambling. But then if I was ever brought before a judge it seems likely he'd decide differently, as there's never in history been an arrest and prosecution purely for remote freelancing online.

Thread from yesterday in the the ask a lawyer section saying its a 'very grey area':

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/796319-remotely-working-for-foreign-company-while-on-vacation/

That's a far cry from posters here saying it's 100% illegal, 'simple as that' and blah blah with no authority to do so.

Edited February 1, 2015 by jspill

[Arkady]

Thai authorities don't want foreigners staying long-term on short-term tourist visas for obvious reasons. They have no means to check they have sufficient funds for long stay, as they do with people on NON-B visas or retirement and marriage extensions. They also don't want foreigners working in Thailand without work permits and without paying tax and particularly don't want to harbour foreign criminals. Most other countries in the world take a similar view and have immigration and work permit laws accordingly. The choices are either to pay to skirt the system by buying an elite card, set up a Thai company to work legally, work on tourist visas but risk one day not being able to come back, or living and working somewhere else.

[Arkady]

Easy then go and walk into your DOL / immigration department and tell them you work on line etc etc and get a letter off them then ?

One needs a piece of paper to work, so if someone truely doesn't need a WP for on line work I am sure your local DOL will give you as bit of paper stating such, scan it and post on TV when your done, there's a good chap, if your convictions on this matter are so strong and it is legal, then getting a definitive answer from your DOL should be easy then

My position isn't that it's 100% legal, I just dispute that it's 100% illegal. It's a grey area because of the loose language in the alien labor act, it being impossible to get a work permit to operate alone on the internet, etc. If I walked into my local DOL I don't doubt that I could potentially encounter the Thai version of you, someone who thinks the internet is all porn and gambling. But then if I was ever brought before a judge it seems likely he'd decide differently, as there's never in history been an arrest for freelancing online.

Thread from yesterday in the the ask a lawyer section saying its a grey area:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/796319-remotely-working-for-foreign-company-while-on-vacation/

That's a far cry from posters here saying it's 100% illegal, 'simple as that' and blah blah with no authority to do so.

The definition of work in the 2008 Working of Aliens Act is extremely broad,

‘"Work" means engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefit.’

Doing stuff on the internet like Facebook for fun is obviously not going to be interpreted as work in a Thai court. However, working online and being paid offshore obviously would, assuming they had evidence of this. In most cases the police and the courts are not going to have sufficient evidence of this and no one will know what you are doing, unless you tell them yourself. However, I would think there was probably enough evidence in the case of the virtual school operating in Chiang Mai to serve students in China.

Anyway the thread is more about getting visas for long-term stay, rather than the definition of work which is clearly a catch-all that was originally intended to include people who worked for cash but pretended to be working for free as well as volunteers with NGOs which most countries want to control in some way. Online workers are not much different as far as the law is concerned, except that they have the advantage of being able to work discretely from home, unless they are part of some sort of organised business like the Chinese school or other types of scam.

[Boatfreak]

If you have the money a Thai Elite 5 year PE visa that give unlimited one year entries could be an option. Just pay 500k baht for the 5 year option.

I'll be in a similar situation soon, and whilst 500k up-front can be hard to get, the effective cost of 100k/year for peace and mind is looking more and more appealing.

If I recall the "PE" is actually better than it used to be, in that it now grants you a full one year extension of stay - i.e. no trips to immigration every 3 months? Seriously sounds more appealing every time I think about it.

But what guarantees that the next governement or the next general does not decide to cancel these Elite Visa without refund?

[tuonsai]

Thai authorities don't want foreigners staying long-term on short-term tourist visas for obvious reasons. They have no means to check they have sufficient funds for long stay, as they do with people on NON-B visas or retirement and marriage extensions. They also don't want foreigners working in Thailand without work permits and without paying tax and particularly don't want to harbour foreign criminals. Most other countries in the world take a similar view and have immigration and work permit laws accordingly. The choices are either to pay to skirt the system by buying an elite card, set up a Thai company to work legally, work on tourist visas but risk one day not being able to come back, or living and working somewhere else.

Thanks for the responses.

For me the issue is not being afraid of being caught working, but afraid of investing 6-12 months

in Thailand and facing a situation where there's no path ahead, unless I put down a sum which I don't have or take classes which I don't need.

If this were to happen my investment of time and energy would go to waste and I would leave the country disappointed.

As an above poster said, they're giving him a warning on his fourth visa in Vientiane that he will need to show proof of income and residence for his next one. That's really not clear what they are looking for there.

Some people could have gotten that warning on earlier visas too. That probably means he won't be able to continue on a tourist visa after 12 months total. But this time could easily decrease at any moment, they could start giving this warning on the second visa and checking on the third, then rejecting the third visa, i.e. giving you 6 months in Thailand as a tourist unless you prove you really are a tourist, which could be difficult. It seems like worst case I would have to leave permanently in 6 months, best case I would have to leave in 12, unless I sign up for the ed visa (which they're also cracking down on) or pay the elite visa, which is not an option. I guess the only realistic option is planning to live there for 6 month stretches on tourist visas, and somewhere else for another six months? Or is it? Would being out of the country for six months "reset" my tourist status? Nothing seems certain.

Edited February 1, 2015 by tuonsai

[jspill]

As an above poster said, they're giving him a warning on his fourth visa in Vientiane that he will need to show proof of income and residence for his next one. That's really not clear what they are looking for there.

Some people could have gotten that warning on earlier visas too. That probably means he won't be able to continue on a tourist visa after 12 months total. But this time could easily decrease at any moment, they could start giving this warning on the second visa and checking on the third, then rejecting the third visa, i.e. giving you 6 months in Thailand as a tourist unless you prove you really are a tourist, which could be difficult. It seems like worst case I would have to leave permanently in 6 months, best case I would have to leave in 12, unless I sign up for the ed visa (which they're also cracking down on) or pay the elite visa, which is not an option. I guess the only realistic option is planning to live there for 6 month stretches on tourist visas, and somewhere else for another six months? Or is it? Would being out of the country for six months "reset" my tourist status? Nothing seems certain.

People have stayed decades on tourist visas.

More info on the Vientiane warning, they just want to see proof of income originating from outside Thailand to 'show you're not working'. Hmm kind of like working remotely and being paid offshore...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715011-red-stamp-in-vientiane-advice-needed/

More info on there being no limit on back to back tourist visas, you just may have to show proof of income or pick a different consulate:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/788273-is-there-any-limit-on-back-to-back-tourist-visas/

Personally I wouldn't worry about it, online workers have been here for years and likely will be for years to come. I wouldn't choose e.g. Cambodia and massively sacrifice quality of living based on some fear that after 12 months you'll fine yourself unable to stay here.

Simply replacing your passport would solve that in the near-zero likelihood of it happening. Consulates don't check records of old stamps issued across passports. The full page Thai stickers fill up passports rather quickly anyway.

[jimi]

I do online work, so employment in Thailand or making a company really isn't something I'm looking to do. Unfortunately I'm not rich either to get the elite visa. It's a shame that Thailand, while being the world's biggest "prostitute" to foreign tourists, seems to want to get rid of many foreigners who are there just wanting to live normal lives, learn their language, etc.

Thanks for the replies.

Normal life would be working...visa available, retired....visa available, visit family...visa available, learn language...visa available, holiday...visa available, start a business...visa available.....probably one of the easiest countries for obtaining a visa providing you are legit.

Visa available for working? Not really, for many people. Let's say one works for a company overseas. And that company has no ties to Thailand in any way, but the nature of the work makes it possible for the employee in question to work online from Thailand, and the company doesn't mind. What visa would would give him/her the right to do this legally? What kind of work permit would he/she be eligible for?

[jimi]

If your customers are overseas and pay you there I wouldn't worry for a second about my profitable spare time activities. I run my companies by reading emails, chatting, calling, saying yes or no, etc. I wouldn't call that work. Thinking can't be monitored. I use the 50+ option to stay here. That is not available to you. If I was 30 and had no capital to invest, I would get a work permit from my Thai network doing something of value for them that can be done from home. Fairly easy to do, but you need Thai friends. If you work in the IT industry this is a no-brainer.

Not sure I understand you correctly, are you saying he should get a work permit for some easy-to-do and low-paid job, just to avoid the tourist visa?

And work in the IT industry in Thailand doesn't necessarily give a good income. One of the reasons I think many people like to work online is that they can get a western income and western benefits, which can be hard to find in Thailand, especially if one wants to choose for himself where in Thailand he wants to live (and it might be on a island, or a smaller town, or in the country side).

[zierf1]

It's called under the table work for a reason. And it's really nobody's business how you get money in your ATM. Just don't tell anyone and keep it a secret. Those guys in Chiang Mai must have been really stupid and were probably working in the open and telling people what they did.

[elviajero]

Thai authorities don't want foreigners staying long-term on short-term tourist visas for obvious reasons. They have no means to check they have sufficient funds for long stay, as they do with people on NON-B visas or retirement and marriage extensions. They also don't want foreigners working in Thailand without work permits and without paying tax and particularly don't want to harbour foreign criminals. Most other countries in the world take a similar view and have immigration and work permit laws accordingly. The choices are either to pay to skirt the system by buying an elite card, set up a Thai company to work legally, work on tourist visas but risk one day not being able to come back, or living and working somewhere else.

Thanks for the responses.

For me the issue is not being afraid of being caught working, but afraid of investing 6-12 months

in Thailand and facing a situation where there's no path ahead, unless I put down a sum which I don't have or take classes which I don't need.

If this were to happen my investment of time and energy would go to waste and I would leave the country disappointed.

As an above poster said, they're giving him a warning on his fourth visa in Vientiane that he will need to show proof of income and residence for his next one. That's really not clear what they are looking for there.

Some people could have gotten that warning on earlier visas too. That probably means he won't be able to continue on a tourist visa after 12 months total. But this time could easily decrease at any moment, they could start giving this warning on the second visa and checking on the third, then rejecting the third visa, i.e. giving you 6 months in Thailand as a tourist unless you prove you really are a tourist, which could be difficult. It seems like worst case I would have to leave permanently in 6 months, best case I would have to leave in 12, unless I sign up for the ed visa (which they're also cracking down on) or pay the elite visa, which is not an option. I guess the only realistic option is planning to live there for 6 month stretches on tourist visas, and somewhere else for another six months? Or is it? Would being out of the country for six months "reset" my tourist status? Nothing seems certain.

If I were you I'd go for the tourist visa route. Being away six months doesn't reset, but as it stands I reckon you're good for 3 or 4 back to back tourist visas which would give you 1.5 to 2 years. I used to use 2 passports and alternated visa applications between them. You could do that or simply get a new passport when the warning comes. Doing either will probably give you 3 to 4 years without hassle.

Visa rules are always changing here, but in my experience, there's always an option so I doubt you'll ever be forced to leave the country.

Thailand is a fantastic place to live, but it can also be frustrating and take some getting used to so, for that reason, don't put permanent roots down too quickly. Also your age is against you as it was for me when I first arrived. You're under 50, not married and don't qualify for a work permit so immigration is going to be a headache for you until you meet one of those criteria. Personally I think the elite visa is a complete rip off and only good for those with money to burn.

[stevenl]

I do online work, so employment in Thailand or making a company really isn't something I'm looking to do. Unfortunately I'm not rich either to get the elite visa. It's a shame that Thailand, while being the world's biggest "prostitute" to foreign tourists, seems to want to get rid of many foreigners who are there just wanting to live normal lives, learn their language, etc.

Thanks for the replies.

Normal life would be working...visa available, retired....visa available, visit family...visa available, learn language...visa available, holiday...visa available, start a business...visa available.....probably one of the easiest countries for obtaining a visa providing you are legit.

Visa available for working? Not really, for many people. Let's say one works for a company overseas. And that company has no ties to Thailand in any way, but the nature of the work makes it possible for the employee in question to work online from Thailand, and the company doesn't mind. What visa would would give him/her the right to do this legally? What kind of work permit would he/she be eligible for?

None, he/she would work illegally in Thailand or have to work elsewhere.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Edit - really can't be arsed with the back and forth..

OP - you simply will not get an accurate answer on this forum regarding whether you're allowed to do it or not. Only opinion.

Yes if you are considered to be working, the fact is that you require a work permit, however what you consider to be working may not necessarily be the same interpretation as a Thai court would take. Works both ways.

It's up to you to determine if you feel the law that defines 'work' as 'work' is clear, and whether or not the lack of precedents in terms of anyone being prosecuted, ever, (seemingly) worldwide, for working remotely when payment is made offshore is relevant. Then balance up the opinion you have, based on available evidence, with your tolerance for risk.

I'm off to work on my six pack.

Edited February 1, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[jimi]

Nonsense.

For many, the best aspect of online working is the ability to make your work fit around your life not the other way round

Having a laptop, tablet or even a smartphone means you're never really out of the office unless you want to be.

Nonsense? Certainly not.

"online working" covers a lot of very different kinds of work. If your work consists in coding sites with very complex architecture by example, there is no way you can work with just a laptop, and there is no way you can concentrate enough during such trip to make this kind of work. From a development point of view, they are lost days, and as "time is money"...

I am a software developer myself, and I strongly disagree with you. There are many points I want make, the biggest ones being:

• If one has a good size screen on the laptop, a good mouse and a good external keyboard, it is perfectly feasible to work like that.
• A developer doesn't just type code. Complex projects requires thinking, discussing, drawing up ideas etc. This doesn't require a stationary computer with three screens.
• Most people don't consider the occasional lazy weekend as lost revenue. So why should one consider the occasional 2 day trip that way? Why not treat it like a mini vacation instead?

I'm not saying that it is necessarily comfortable to work with just a laptop, certainly not for longer periods. But I certainly disagree with your claim that there is no way it can be done.

Also, I'm not saying that it is the best option to go for visa runs (I have only done that once, and I don't even remember if it was a hassle or not). I just disagree with your points.

[nzexpat]

These keyboard cowboys have options !

1 Be legal with a "proper" visa (+/- extensions of stay ) and work permit

OR

2. Be illegal and run the risk by existing on inappropriate short term visas !

No need for pages of "debate"

: > )

[jimi]

These keyboard cowboys have options !

1 Be legal with a "proper" visa (+/- extensions of stay ) and work permit

OR

2. Be illegal and run the risk by existing on inappropriate short term visas !

No need for pages of "debate"

: > )

You make it sound like such a setup as in your nr 1 above is feasible for anyone. If one works for a non-Thai company, and has a pay level and work benefits that one doesn't want to loose, how does one get that work permit you talk about?

I'm not saying that you are incorrect about the actual options that are available. I just think that it sounds like you have a somewhat narrow idea of how great the available options are, and you don't seem to like that other people have different opinions on this subject.