Patong is dead.

[spidermike007]

The Russians are broke. As are the Americans, the Brits, the Chinese, and most everyone else. (Except for the Nordic nations).

Brits?...I’m not skint and neither are many of the quality Brit tourists I know that visit Lalaland. No Sir, I think there are many and varied reasons why folk are not going there...kop some of NKM’s sermons for the unfortunate low-down. Arh, the good old days...

Thank you for the sense you made of the absolutely mindless quote Billy the hat made. Wow. What can you say. I know a lot of people in the U.S. with very serious cash. They simply choose not to come here. Many reasons. Sure, 92% of the population is hurting in the west. But, many are doing well. The Chinese have more money than ever, in recent history. The coup really hurt tourism. The continued rising prices here really hurts tourism. Incredibly dumb hotel owners raising prices when occupancy is down really hurts tourism. The lack of law and order here really hurts tourism. A nationalistic leader who puts his foot in his mouth daily really hurts tourism.

"92% of the population is hurting in the west"....ridiculous waffle

I have spent some time there recently, and with the exception of the top 92%, most are not enjoying their lives very much. Most have experienced diminishing lifestyles, due to the lack of salary increase, the additional hours and responsibilities due to corporate downsizing, and far higher costs of living. And if you are renting, you are really getting squeezed out of the big markets. Yes, I reiterate, the top 8% are doing quite well. The rest, well they are coping.

[Jimi007]

Brits?...I’m not skint and neither are many of the quality Brit tourists I know that visit Lalaland. No Sir, I think there are many and varied reasons why folk are not going there...kop some of NKM’s sermons for the unfortunate low-down. Arh, the good old days...

Thank you for the sense you made of the absolutely mindless quote Billy the hat made. Wow. What can you say. I know a lot of people in the U.S. with very serious cash. They simply choose not to come here. Many reasons. Sure, 92% of the population is hurting in the west. But, many are doing well. The Chinese have more money than ever, in recent history. The coup really hurt tourism. The continued rising prices here really hurts tourism. Incredibly dumb hotel owners raising prices when occupancy is down really hurts tourism. The lack of law and order here really hurts tourism. A nationalistic leader who puts his foot in his mouth daily really hurts tourism.

"92% of the population is hurting in the west"....ridiculous waffle

I have spent some time there recently, and with the exception of the top 92%, most are not enjoying their lives very much. Most have experienced diminishing lifestyles, due to the lack of salary increase, the additional hours and responsibilities due to corporate downsizing, and far higher costs of living. And if you are renting, you are really getting squeezed out of the big markets. Yes, I reiterate, the top 8% are doing quite well. The rest, well they are coping.

I've been at my house in Santa Cruz, California since September 2014. The economy around here and the Bay Area are doing very well! Property prices are up, employment is up, rents are up, gas is down, but food prices are up and we have a drought that isn't helping that. People have money, my beach town is packed with tourists everyday. Good thing I bought my house here in 1976!

Phuket has been taking a downturn in westerners because it isn't that much fun anymore. Right when you get off the plane you get the assault by tour companies and taxi guys. But once I get to my house in Rawai, it's nice and quiet again and I don't have to deal with all the tourist crap. I lived in Patong back in 2005 and it started to really go downhill! Rawai was much nicer, but not so great anymore. Same problems as Patong, overbuilding, no significant infrastructure improvements, but still way better than Patong!

[xylophone]

Quote Lashay: "Yet still it's the same old, every soi/complex pounding out overly loud club dance remixes (which started when Tiger 2 became a success, but now even that is starting to fail), little to differentiate between them except the building and prices and absolutely nothing to attract the older punters, quite the opposite actually. Even though many bars want change, the master contract holders are stuck in the past (and their own ego's) and unwilling to change and doubt they will

If Bangla wants to save it's self, it needs not just change, but variety. But the big Thai owners have had it so easy for so long (build it and they will come) they actually don't understand their own industry and think they can continue as always"

Quote Jimi007: "Phuket has been taking a downturn in westerners because it isn't that much fun anymore. Right when you get off the plane you get the assault by tour companies and taxi guys. But once I get to my house in Rawai, it's nice and quiet again and I don't have to deal with all the tourist crap".

A few more good points and when you read them in conjunction with some other other posts, I think that's just about nailed it.

Interestingly enough, when Soi Eric was the place to be, some of the bar owners there were lamenting the fact that the "overly loud club music" was not suited to the demographics of the folks visiting their bars, and they were always pleased when the DJ switched to some good old rock and roll type classics, or even more modern but well-known songs, because that's what the punters wanted, but nothing changed.

And the same is still happening, and even the thumping music in Tiger 2 has become so boring and loud that people are not happy to be in that environment any more and are showing it with their reluctance to visit the place. Yet the music pumps out and things haven't changed on that score, only the fact that punters don't visit there as often as they used to.

In a previously mentioned Soi, there are often more older, and even many younger folk who go to the end of it to listen to the Filipino band, so about three or four bars at the end do benefit from this, yet when they take a break and the thumping club music begins, the punters drift away.............at least the Soi owner has listened to the bar owners and ensured that the Filipino band play six nights a week, along with the occasional guest singer from the crowd (especially an older guy who sings a couple of classics from time to time....he's great) which makes the atmosphere a lot more lively.

And yes, I agree, variety will make a difference, and was probably the reason that Scruffy Murphys was so popular.......a range of different beers, old-fashioned pub style layout with some good old-fashioned food available, a live "Irish style" band and a friendly atmosphere.

As long as every bar looks the same, serves the same beer, charges the same prices and has "average" girls trying to con a drink off you, with a Thai bar owner who really cannot hold a conversation with you, then things will go downhill, as they have, yet as you quite rightly say, they won't listen because they know best and "it's always been that way". Well times have changed.

And a good point from JImi007, when he states that the "crap" begins the moment you step off the plane and for those of us who know what the game is all about, we can bypass it, but for others, it is no fun.

[KarenBravo]

The malaise isn't just the bars.

I went over to Patong yesterday at about four in the afternoon. First time in three months, or so.

I rode from the south end of beach road to Soi Bangla and I only saw 30 to 40 tourists, most of them Chinese, or Korean. Quite shocking how empty the place was.

Met a friend who is part owner in a successful hotel that has been here since the late eighties.

He said that last high season was the worst ever.....and they have a lot of repeat guests. He figured profits were down 20%. He guestimates that other hotels were down 50%.

He, like many others are dreading next high season.

[phuketlive]

A friend told me the same, high season down by 50% ...

No russians, chinese looking for a 300 bahts room ...

[Lashay]

.at least the Soi owner has listened to the bar owners and ensured that the Filipino band play six nights a week,

LMAO, you need to talk to the other owners besides the 2/3 at the back who get some little benefit from the band (and not much as the two bars that closed you mentioned were at the back), rest have wanted the band gone pretty much since it started. The 6 days a week is just the owner trying to rent out the ones at back (as he cannot sell them) and to hell with the people at the front who paid him millions, as they are locked into 9 years contracts due to key money anyway.

Just think about it for a second, 20 plus bars paying for a band that less than 10% benefit from, for the others it is quite the opposite, further away the worse the band sounds and emptier they get, reached such bad point that first bar cut themselves off from the soi sound system totally (only ones that were in position to do so) and rest of big bars now turn down/off their sound when band is playing. Does that sound like listening to the bar owners?

You are right though, when DJ comes on it is horrible as well...but guess what, everyone has been demanding they (especially the one before 12:30) change/go for over year, with no luck.

Most owners want what the band plays later on in the night, (until 11 is normally slow love songs/ballads, more suitable for a restaurant) but the original music, not a crappy band reading the words of the songs off their ipads and screaming instead of singing the high notes

If people want to hear decent a band New York Live music is the place to go, but then beer there is 120-180 vs the bars at back of soi 80 baht.

[stevenl]

9 year contracts, are these still (or again?) given out there?

[xylophone]

Looks like we agree on some things, and disagree on others, but then that's the nature of forums such as these.

The reason the first bar cut off the sound system was twofold, one because by the time the music reached the speaker at that end of the Soi, no matter what was on, it was pretty crappy, so the owner wanted to play his own music, which he initially did. Now he has live bands (and in the opinion of many of the patrons, they are not as good as the band at the back of the Soi). I have to agree that despite many complaints to the Soi owner about the quality of the sound, nothing was done, nor with the DJ either, so you are right in that respect.

As far as I am aware, there were not too many bar owners who took up the nine year lease option, with most of them railing against it in telling the owner that it was just not feasible, especially as he wanted nine years key money upfront. Perhaps one or two might have done, but the general feeling was it was a no go.

It would seem to be a no-win situation for the rest of the bars then, because not all of them like the crappy "club dance remixes etc" and seemingly not many of them like the band either, so what is the answer?

And I'm not sure what you mean by this, "Most owners want what the band plays later on in the night, (until 11 is normally slow love songs/ballads, more suitable for a restaurant) but the original music not a crappy band reading the words of the songs off their ipads and screaming instead of singing the high notes".

If most owners want what the band plays later on in the night, and of course it cannot be original music because that was only done by the original artists, so they are singing the original music, but they are not the original singers. I don't agree with all that the band sing because I can't abide songs from the likes of AC/DC (which always seem to me like screaming) however the lady singer has a great voice and range and her version of the Whitney Houston song, "I will always love you" is quite simply stunning.

Not only that, the farangs who do congregate at the bottom end of the Soi seem to enjoy the music being played.

As a matter of interest where is the "New York Live Music" establishment?. I and other folk I know certainly don't mind paying over 120 baht for a beer provided the entertainment is good and I'm not sure that the beer at the back of the Soi is actually 80 baht, not that I pay much attention to it because I'm not a big beer drinker.

Before I sign off, what would be the answer to the situation in your opinion?

[NamKangMan]

Looks like we agree on some things, and disagree on others, but then that's the nature of forums such as these.

The reason the first bar cut off the sound system was twofold, one because by the time the music reached the speaker at that end of the Soi, no matter what was on, it was pretty crappy, so the owner wanted to play his own music, which he initially did. Now he has live bands (and in the opinion of many of the patrons, they are not as good as the band at the back of the Soi). I have to agree that despite many complaints to the Soi owner about the quality of the sound, nothing was done, nor with the DJ either, so you are right in that respect.

As far as I am aware, there were not too many bar owners who took up the nine year lease option, with most of them railing against it in telling the owner that it was just not feasible, especially as he wanted nine years key money upfront. Perhaps one or two might have done, but the general feeling was it was a no go.

It would seem to be a no-win situation for the rest of the bars then, because not all of them like the crappy "club dance remixes etc" and seemingly not many of them like the band either, so what is the answer?

And I'm not sure what you mean by this, "Most owners want what the band plays later on in the night, (until 11 is normally slow love songs/ballads, more suitable for a restaurant) but the original music not a crappy band reading the words of the songs off their ipads and screaming instead of singing the high notes".

If most owners want what the band plays later on in the night, and of course it cannot be original music because that was only done by the original artists, so they are singing the original music, but they are not the original singers. I don't agree with all that the band sing because I can't abide songs from the likes of AC/DC (which always seem to me like screaming) however the lady singer has a great voice and range and her version of the Whitney Houston song, "I will always love you" is quite simply stunning.

Not only that, the farangs who do congregate at the bottom end of the Soi seem to enjoy the music being played.

As a matter of interest where is the "New York Live Music" establishment?. I and other folk I know certainly don't mind paying over 120 baht for a beer provided the entertainment is good and I'm not sure that the beer at the back of the Soi is actually 80 baht, not that I pay much attention to it because I'm not a big beer drinker.

Before I sign off, what would be the answer to the situation in your opinion?

"what would be the answer to the situation in your opinion?" - the bar owners should have a meeting with the owner of the Soi / complex.

At this meeting, they should be able to all submit a play list, and the DJ should play the play list of all the bar owners, randomly. At this meeting, a song is played, and all the bar owners negotiate on an acceptable level of volume, and the DJ should never go over that level of volume.

Another idea is each bar has a pen and paper and the staff invite the customer to write a request. The request is then given to the DJ and eventually played. A nice touch for the customers.

Currently, we have a young Thai DJ, who thinks he's the next David Guetta, who plays what he wants, and not what is for the benefit of the bar owners, and the demographic of the customers, and at an unacceptable level of volume.

When the music gets too loud, I leave, and I tell the owner why. The staff can barely hear my drink order.

I really miss Scruffy's. Air conditioned, good selection of beverages, live music at an appropiate volume, a good atmosphere, and a good location.

Edited July 2, 2015 by NamKangMan

[Lashay]

Quote stevenl: "9 year contracts, are these still (or again?) given out there?"

Last place i know that gave/forced them, most signed up a year before soi opened (before things turned really bad for Thai tourism). He still pushes the 9 years but he has only had one taker since the soi opened, rest just pay (high) rent.

All other soi's are now 1-3 years, many dropping key money completely

Quote xylophone: "As far as I am aware, there were not too many bar owners who took up the nine year lease option, with most of them railing against it in telling the owner that it was just not feasible, especially as he wanted nine years key money upfront. Perhaps one or two might have done, but the general feeling was it was a no go."

Whole first half of the soi is 9 year lease holders except one, smaller bars in 2nd half, some 9 year, couple of 3 years, rest rent only

Quote xylophone: "And I'm not sure what you mean by this, "Most owners want what the band plays later on in the night, (until 11 is normally slow love songs/ballads, more suitable for a restaurant) but the original music not a crappy band reading the words of the songs off their ipads and screaming instead of singing the high notes"."

Can understand, it's not very clear, basically popular hits of the last 40 years, ie real songs instead of club remixes (which are designed to get people up and dancing, little else), everything from Rock, Pop, Reggie so forth. Things you would normally hear in any bar in farang land

Many of these the band play on their 2nd set but they sound pretty crap, especially further down the soi, what DJ should be playing is the original recordings of the same type of music. If the DJ played the right music there would be zero need for band. Middle of the road variety with widest appeal is what is needed because at end of the day it is the music for 20 odd bars, not one/two bars with target audience. And at a comfortable volume, as a DJ once told me years ago, in a bar music should be felt, not heard. If they are hearing it you are doing something wrong.

Quote xylophone: "Not only that, the farangs who do congregate at the bottom end of the Soi seem to enjoy the music being played."

While the customers in the bars in the front leave due to "That god awful racket" (to summarize many customer comments)

Now don't get me wrong, it could be a bit better is sound system was better calibrated for the band up front, but really not much. A live band you cannot really see is a very poor substitute for a professional studio recording.

Quote xylophone: "As a matter of interest where is the "New York Live Music" establishment?. I and other folk I know certainly don't mind paying over 120 baht for a beer provided the entertainment is good and I'm not sure that the beer at the back of the Soi is actually 80 baht, not that I pay much attention to it because I'm not a big beer drinker."

Main street Bangla, just past 7-11 if coming from Tiger. All black outside. 8-9 member band (Thai/Malaysian?). Good band (for Thailand) and very good entertainers, which can be just as important as singing for a bar/club band.

Moonsoon at start of Seadragon is also ok, but my personal opinion is not as good

Red Hot is still ok, but gone downhill in last 8 months, bamboo used to be good, but now gone due to landlord asking what would have been outrageous key money even in the boom times for contract renewal

Heros are also doing a small live band regularly, while not the best singers, they are good entertainers and good at matching music to the audience and their dj seems to be learning as well, which is probably one of main reasons they are now one of the busiest bars on main street most nights

All these are miles ahead of the soi band, actually nearly every band on Bangla is miles better (except the one in the first bar on the soi, who are more karaoke than anything)

And yep, beer, while some are 100, others are 80, hell one of those that just closed was 60 (good example of what i said about prices being to low, you make so little you still go under even with customers). Some at front are getting so desperate they are now offering beer at 79.

Quote xylophone: "what would be the answer to the situation in your opinion?"

That soi? Think at this point it is beyond hope unless someone with a clue buys it (heard it's for sale, he has made his money already with the 9 year buyers,but who would want it with all the sitting tenants with long contracts is anyone's guess). He even hired a farang manager half way though the high season and then promptly told him (after he tried to change things) he had no authority over DJ, Band and Security. So he obviously did not stay long.

Just other night saw soi owner sitting in one of the bars,first band playing (and singing that god awful rendition of ' you, I won't do what you tell me' by Rage Against The Machine), then overly loud headache inducing DJ, surrounded by empty bar after empty bar.

He had a big smile on his face.

In the bigger Bangla picture, lot harder as it is going to require someone with some real knowledge of worldwide nightlife industry to become either a major contract owner or at least be fully put in charge by one. Can think of no other place in the world where in nightlife area everywhere is playing the same music and doing the exact same things. You normally have jazz bars, reggae bars, dance bars, cheap bars, high end bars, Caribbean bars, rock bars, themed bars. In other words, variety.

And problem here is, even if someone does do something large and original (for Bangla), if they are successful, within two years the whole of bangla will have copied them (as case was with Tiger music,before music was stuck in in the 60-80's popular hits section) and you will be back to same problem, just to a different tune.

To my mind, the real problem in bangla/patong/phuket, is the transportation issues keep the tourists bottled up in a small zone. Because of this, in that zone business property costs are high, it dissuades people from taking a business risk.

So, in my opinion, the single biggest change that they could make, that would have the biggest impact on the whole island, in very sector of business, would be solving the public transport/tuk tuk issues. The ripple effects of that would change the whole island forever.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Lashay

[phuketlive]

"Currently, we have a young Thai DJ, who thinks he's the next David Guetta, who plays what he wants, and not what is for the benefit of the bar owners, and the demographic of the customers, and at an unacceptable level of volume."

haha, like this here yes, they just want to do what they want, thinking also they know what has to be done anyway...

About noise, a problem is that thai like when its loud... i have seen it in other places, but they act like whatever ! they dont care if the customers dont like it as long as THEY like it.

[Lashay]

"what would be the answer to the situation in your opinion?" - the bar owners should have a meeting with the owner of the Soi / complex.

At this meeting, they should be able to all submit a play list, and the DJ should play the play list of all the bar owners, randomly. At this meeting, a song is played, and all the bar owners negotiate on an acceptable level of volume, and the DJ should never go over that level of volume.

Done multiple times, ignored every time. You forget that he has them by the balls due to key money. They cannot walk away without huge loss for them, huge gain for him Edited July 2, 2015 by Lashay

[KarenBravo]

Of course they can walk away.

If the business is losing money, better to close, call the key money a loss and save the monthly rent.

Think of it this way.....the key money is just a license to lose more money. It's gone whichever way you look at it.

You think running the business at a loss is better?

[phuketlive]

Saw they closed Bamboo Bar, too bad, something different...

Looks like they are building bars like all the other ones on bangla, good luck for those who will rent that now...

[Lashay]

Of course they can walk away.

If the business is losing money, better to close, call the key money a loss and save the monthly rent.

Think of it this way.....the key money is just a license to lose more money. It's gone whichever way you look at it.

You think running the business at a loss is better?

That's logic, but when you have 7 to 25 million in key money (9 year contracts remember), your house (most have bank loans) on the line, not so easy to go by logic. Hope for a better tomorrow will keep you in there

[KarenBravo]

Of course they can walk away.

If the business is losing money, better to close, call the key money a loss and save the monthly rent.

Think of it this way.....the key money is just a license to lose more money. It's gone whichever way you look at it.

You think running the business at a loss is better?

That's logic, but when you have 7 to 25 million in key money (9 year contracts remember), your house (most have bank loans) on the line, not so easy to go by logic. Hope for a better tomorrow will keep you in there

Oh dear..........not a good situation to be in.

I'm sure that 90% of the businesses on this island just operate to support the land-lord.

[Lashay]

Saw they closed Bamboo Bar, too bad, something different...

Looks like they are building bars like all the other ones on bangla, good luck for those who will rent that now...

If who i think has taken that over actually has, it might prove interesting to keep your eye on it. Not only is he not thai but he runs also owns quite a few other very successful nightlife places around.

[NamKangMan]

Quote stevenl: "9 year contracts, are these still (or again?) given out there?"

Last place i know that gave/forced them, most signed up a year before soi opened (before things turned really bad for Thai tourism). He still pushes the 9 years but he has only had one taker since the soi opened, rest just pay (high) rent.

All other soi's are now 1-3 years, many dropping key money completely

Quote xylophone: "As far as I am aware, there were not too many bar owners who took up the nine year lease option, with most of them railing against it in telling the owner that it was just not feasible, especially as he wanted nine years key money upfront. Perhaps one or two might have done, but the general feeling was it was a no go."

Whole first half of the soi is 9 year lease holders except one, smaller bars in 2nd half, some 9 year, couple of 3 years, rest rent only

Quote xylophone: "And I'm not sure what you mean by this, "Most owners want what the band plays later on in the night, (until 11 is normally slow love songs/ballads, more suitable for a restaurant) but the original music not a crappy band reading the words of the songs off their ipads and screaming instead of singing the high notes"."

Can understand, it's not very clear, basically popular hits of the last 40 years, ie real songs instead of club remixes (which are designed to get people up and dancing, little else), everything from Rock, Pop, Reggie so forth. Things you would normally hear in any bar in farang land

Many of these the band play on their 2nd set but they sound pretty crap, especially further down the soi, what DJ should be playing is the original recordings of the same type of music. If the DJ played the right music there would be zero need for band. Middle of the road variety with widest appeal is what is needed because at end of the day it is the music for 20 odd bars, not one/two bars with target audience. And at a comfortable volume, as a DJ once told me years ago, in a bar music should be felt, not heard. If they are hearing it you are doing something wrong.

Quote xylophone: "Not only that, the farangs who do congregate at the bottom end of the Soi seem to enjoy the music being played."

While the customers in the bars in the front leave due to "That god awful racket" (to summarize many customer comments)

Now don't get me wrong, it could be a bit better is sound system was better calibrated for the band up front, but really not much. A live band you cannot really see is a very poor substitute for a professional studio recording.

Quote xylophone: "As a matter of interest where is the "New York Live Music" establishment?. I and other folk I know certainly don't mind paying over 120 baht for a beer provided the entertainment is good and I'm not sure that the beer at the back of the Soi is actually 80 baht, not that I pay much attention to it because I'm not a big beer drinker."

Main street Bangla, just past 7-11 if coming from Tiger. All black outside. 8-9 member band (Thai/Malaysian?). Good band (for Thailand) and very good entertainers, which can be just as important as singing for a bar/club band.

Moonsoon at start of Seadragon is also ok, but my personal opinion is not as good

Red Hot is still ok, but gone downhill in last 8 months, bamboo used to be good, but now gone due to landlord asking what would have been outrageous key money even in the boom times for contract renewal

Heros are also doing a small live band regularly, while not the best singers, they are good entertainers and good at matching music to the audience and their dj seems to be learning as well, which is probably one of main reasons they are now one of the busiest bars on main street most nights

All these are miles ahead of the soi band, actually nearly every band on Bangla is miles better (except the one in the first bar on the soi, who are more karaoke than anything)

And yep, beer, while some are 100, others are 80, hell one of those that just closed was 60 (good example of what i said about prices being to low, you make so little you still go under even with customers). Some at front are getting so desperate they are now offering beer at 79.

Quote xylophone: "what would be the answer to the situation in your opinion?"

That soi? Think at this point it is beyond hope unless someone with a clue buys it (heard it's for sale, he has made his money already with the 9 year buyers,but who would want it with all the sitting tenants with long contracts is anyone's guess). He even hired a farang manager half way though the high season and then promptly told him (after he tried to change things) he had no authority over DJ, Band and Security. So he obviously did not stay long.

Just other night saw soi owner sitting in one of the bars,first band playing (and singing that god awful rendition of ' you, I won't do what you tell me' by Rage Against The Machine), then overly loud headache inducing DJ, surrounded by empty bar after empty bar.

He had a big smile on his face.

In the bigger Bangla picture, lot harder as it is going to require someone with some real knowledge of worldwide nightlife industry to become either a major contract owner or at least be fully put in charge by one. Can think of no other place in the world where in nightlife area everywhere is playing the same music and doing the exact same things. You normally have jazz bars, reggae bars, dance bars, cheap bars, high end bars, Caribbean bars, rock bars, themed bars. In other words, variety.

And problem here is, even if someone does do something large and original (for Bangla), if they are successful, within two years the whole of bangla will have copied them (as case was with Tiger music,before music was stuck in in the 60-80's popular hits section) and you will be back to same problem, just to a different tune.

To my mind, the real problem in bangla/patong/phuket, is the transportation issues keep the tourists bottled up in a small zone. Because of this, in that zone business property costs are high, it dissuades people from taking a business risk.

So, in my opinion, the single biggest change that they could make, that would have the biggest impact on the whole island, in very sector of business, would be solving the public transport/tuk tuk issues. The ripple effects of that would change the whole island forever.

"then overly loud headache inducing DJ, surrounded by empty bar after empty bar. He had a big smile on his face." - of course he was happy.

He signs bar owners up to a long lease, with big key money, they go broke, can't sell their bar, breach there lease agreement, and the owner gets to sell the bar to another stupid farang.

It's all about turning over that key money.

However, what these Thai landlords will soon realize is, that old saying, "There's another fool flying in right now" will not be like "the good old days" because more and more, the only ones flying in are Chinese, and they are not interested in buying a bar here.

These Thai landlords will eventually be left with vacant property, thus, reducing their income stream.

[xylophone]

Quote stevenl: "9 year contracts, are these still (or again?) given out there?"

Last place i know that gave/forced them, most signed up a year before soi opened (before things turned really bad for Thai tourism). He still pushes the 9 years but he has only had one taker since the soi opened, rest just pay (high) rent.

All other soi's are now 1-3 years, many dropping key money completely

Quote xylophone: "As far as I am aware, there were not too many bar owners who took up the nine year lease option, with most of them railing against it in telling the owner that it was just not feasible, especially as he wanted nine years key money upfront. Perhaps one or two might have done, but the general feeling was it was a no go."

Whole first half of the soi is 9 year lease holders except one, smaller bars in 2nd half, some 9 year, couple of 3 years, rest rent only

Quote xylophone: "And I'm not sure what you mean by this, "Most owners want what the band plays later on in the night, (until 11 is normally slow love songs/ballads, more suitable for a restaurant) but the original music not a crappy band reading the words of the songs off their ipads and screaming instead of singing the high notes"."

Can understand, it's not very clear, basically popular hits of the last 40 years, ie real songs instead of club remixes (which are designed to get people up and dancing, little else), everything from Rock, Pop, Reggie so forth. Things you would normally hear in any bar in farang land

Many of these the band play on their 2nd set but they sound pretty crap, especially further down the soi, what DJ should be playing is the original recordings of the same type of music. If the DJ played the right music there would be zero need for band. Middle of the road variety with widest appeal is what is needed because at end of the day it is the music for 20 odd bars, not one/two bars with target audience. And at a comfortable volume, as a DJ once told me years ago, in a bar music should be felt, not heard. If they are hearing it you are doing something wrong.

Quote xylophone: "Not only that, the farangs who do congregate at the bottom end of the Soi seem to enjoy the music being played."

While the customers in the bars in the front leave due to "That god awful racket" (to summarize many customer comments)

Now don't get me wrong, it could be a bit better is sound system was better calibrated for the band up front, but really not much. A live band you cannot really see is a very poor substitute for a professional studio recording.

Quote xylophone: "As a matter of interest where is the "New York Live Music" establishment?. I and other folk I know certainly don't mind paying over 120 baht for a beer provided the entertainment is good and I'm not sure that the beer at the back of the Soi is actually 80 baht, not that I pay much attention to it because I'm not a big beer drinker."

Main street Bangla, just past 7-11 if coming from Tiger. All black outside. 8-9 member band (Thai/Malaysian?). Good band (for Thailand) and very good entertainers, which can be just as important as singing for a bar/club band.

Moonsoon at start of Seadragon is also ok, but my personal opinion is not as good

Red Hot is still ok, but gone downhill in last 8 months, bamboo used to be good, but now gone due to landlord asking what would have been outrageous key money even in the boom times for contract renewal

Heros are also doing a small live band regularly, while not the best singers, they are good entertainers and good at matching music to the audience and their dj seems to be learning as well, which is probably one of main reasons they are now one of the busiest bars on main street most nights

All these are miles ahead of the soi band, actually nearly every band on Bangla is miles better (except the one in the first bar on the soi, who are more karaoke than anything)

And yep, beer, while some are 100, others are 80, hell one of those that just closed was 60 (good example of what i said about prices being to low, you make so little you still go under even with customers). Some at front are getting so desperate they are now offering beer at 79.

Quote xylophone: "what would be the answer to the situation in your opinion?"

That soi? Think at this point it is beyond hope unless someone with a clue buys it (heard it's for sale, he has made his money already with the 9 year buyers,but who would want it with all the sitting tenants with long contracts is anyone's guess). He even hired a farang manager half way though the high season and then promptly told him (after he tried to change things) he had no authority over DJ, Band and Security. So he obviously did not stay long.

Just other night saw soi owner sitting in one of the bars,first band playing (and singing that god awful rendition of ' you, I won't do what you tell me' by Rage Against The Machine), then overly loud headache inducing DJ, surrounded by empty bar after empty bar.

He had a big smile on his face.

In the bigger Bangla picture, lot harder as it is going to require someone with some real knowledge of worldwide nightlife industry to become either a major contract owner or at least be fully put in charge by one. Can think of no other place in the world where in nightlife area everywhere is playing the same music and doing the exact same things. You normally have jazz bars, reggae bars, dance bars, cheap bars, high end bars, Caribbean bars, rock bars, themed bars. In other words, variety.

And problem here is, even if someone does do something large and original (for Bangla), if they are successful, within two years the whole of bangla will have copied them (as case was with Tiger music,before music was stuck in in the 60-80's popular hits section) and you will be back to same problem, just to a different tune.

To my mind, the real problem in bangla/patong/phuket, is the transportation issues keep the tourists bottled up in a small zone. Because of this, in that zone business property costs are high, it dissuades people from taking a business risk.

So, in my opinion, the single biggest change that they could make, that would have the biggest impact on the whole island, in very sector of business, would be solving the public transport/tuk tuk issues. The ripple effects of that would change the whole island forever.

Hmmm, you make some good points as does NKM in his suggestions, however others I can't subscribe to.

I do know in the early days that he was pushing nine year leases and I also know of some who signed up early, who flatly refused to be bound by nine years, just paying three years key money with the potential for a full nine years. As KarenBravo has said, walking away could be a possible option.

I suspect you know a lot more than I do because of your "knowledge", however one could argue that anyone who would pay nine years key money upfront to rent a bar in a Soi that had just died (yes, Soi Eric was just about dead even before it was "finished") when every sign (many of which are mentioned in this thread) was pointing to the fact that bars like this were on their way out and the whole situation was changing, and not for the better, really has to live with the consequences of not realising this (and I don't mean to be disrespectful).

And if indeed the music from the band sounds good a short distance from where the band are playing and that seems to be the conclusion of the farangs who are there, then surely if all the customers hear at the other end is "a god-awful racket" then that really does point to problems with the sound system and not the band?

Also I'm afraid our interpretation of what is a good band differs quite a bit because I've heard the band you are talking about in the New York Live Music establishment (used to be the Absolute Bangla bar) and whether this particular singer was on a short-term contract or not, I have no idea but he rarely hit a high note and he was certainly screaming out the words rather than singing them. Notwithstanding that the place is full of jumping, bumping, grinding, fist waving youths and artificial coloured smoke, and not really where I and folk of my age would like to be.........sitting in a bar with some reasonable to good music playing that we can appreciate, being able to hear yourself speak and having a conversation with the bar owner.

IMO the band at Bamboo were also very average and the same at Red Hot...........anyway I suspect no matter what band was playing at the end of the Soi in question, the sound system would still make it "a god-awful racket" at one end and there would still be disgruntled bar owners.

Quote: "Can think of no other place in the world where in nightlife area everywhere is playing the same music and doing the exact same things. You normally have jazz bars, reggae bars, dance bars, cheap bars, high end bars, Caribbean bars, rock bars, themed bars. In other words, variety"

You make an excellent point when you say this and I really think this is part of the problem because when every bar is offering the same beer, the same girls, the same old bar games, the same old crap, then there has to be something which differentiates them. Very often it can be the farang "owner" who can converse with the farangs, however now even that is probably not enough. As you have said, the music could be the differentiating factor.

I know about 18 bar owners In Patong and many of them will agree that they have repeat business from farangs because they can sit and talk and have a laugh and a joke, and of course they are not drowned out by music, which seems to be the order of the day at the moment.

[NamKangMan]

Of course they can walk away.

If the business is losing money, better to close, call the key money a loss and save the monthly rent.

Think of it this way.....the key money is just a license to lose more money. It's gone whichever way you look at it.

You think running the business at a loss is better?

That's logic, but when you have 7 to 25 million in key money (9 year contracts remember), your house (most have bank loans) on the line, not so easy to go by logic. Hope for a better tomorrow will keep you in there

Oh dear..........not a good situation to be in.

I'm sure that 90% of the businesses on this island just operate to support the land-lord.

"I'm sure that 90% of the businesses on this island just operate to support the land-lord." - I agree.

Most business owners are just slaves to greedy Thai landlords, and financially locked in.

Edited July 2, 2015 by NamKangMan

[Lashay]

He signs bar owners up to a long lease, with big key money, they go broke, can't sell their bar, breach there lease agreement, and the owner gets to sell the bar to another stupid farang.

It's all about turning over that key money.

However, what these Thai landlords will soon realize is, that old saying, "There's another fool flying in right now" will not be like "the good old days" because more and more, the only ones flying in are Chinese, and they are not interested in buying a bar here.

These Thai landlords will eventually be left with vacant property, thus, reducing their income stream.

As i said above, majority he is screwing over are thai. Days of majority of bangla bars being farang owned (or even farang backed) are long gone. Even many of the main street bars are thai owned now (things might have gone better in that soi if majority had been farang, thai's don't like kicking up a fuss as much)

Many thought that was his game, but now most have concluded he is just an idiot with a over sized ego and a huge chip on his shoulder.

And looking at how things have been over last couple of weeks, totally, utterly dead, any bar off main street lucky to get more than handful of customers, even some middle of tiger 2 bars doing less than a thousand baht a night, if things don't change quickly the collapse might come quicker than anyone predicted as many bar owners drained their reserves over the last horrible 18 months

[Lashay]

Also I'm afraid our interpretation of what is a good band differs quite a bit because I've heard the band you are talking about in the New York Live Music establishment (used to be the Absolute Bangla bar) and whether this particular singer was on a short-term contract or not, I have no idea but he rarely hit a high note and he was certainly screaming out the words rather than singing them. Notwithstanding that the place is full of jumping, bumping, grinding, fist waving youths and artificial coloured smoke, and not really where I and folk of my age would like to be.........sitting in a bar with some reasonable to good music playing that we can appreciate, being able to hear yourself speak and having a conversation with the bar owner.

Front singer is now a thai female (tomboy), with another thai girl and think malaysian guy also doing backup/lead. Was in there few nights ago (after been sujected to soi band for an hour) it was quite a relief.

Remember that bloody smoke, not seen it in long while.

But yes, it is a place to dance as well, pretty much the point of a live band. Sounds like you prefer something more like a cocktail/piano/jazz bar type of thing (something else missing from Bangla).

If just good sounds and conversation is what you want there is no need for a live band (just good dj..or hell mixtape), it would just be a waste of money. Bands are there to put on a show.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Lashay

[phuketlive]

Saw they closed Bamboo Bar, too bad, something different...

Looks like they are building bars like all the other ones on bangla, good luck for those who will rent that now...

If who i think has taken that over actually has, it might prove interesting to keep your eye on it. Not only is he not thai but he runs also owns quite a few other very successful nightlife places around.

Will see then, location is good but if its just bars like the other ones.

[NamKangMan]

He signs bar owners up to a long lease, with big key money, they go broke, can't sell their bar, breach there lease agreement, and the owner gets to sell the bar to another stupid farang.

It's all about turning over that key money.

However, what these Thai landlords will soon realize is, that old saying, "There's another fool flying in right now" will not be like "the good old days" because more and more, the only ones flying in are Chinese, and they are not interested in buying a bar here.

These Thai landlords will eventually be left with vacant property, thus, reducing their income stream.

As i said above, majority he is screwing over are thai. Days of majority of bangla bars being farang owned (or even farang backed) are long gone. Even many of the main street bars are thai owned now (things might have gone better in that soi if majority had been farang, thai's don't like kicking up a fuss as much)

Many thought that was his game, but now most have concluded he is just an idiot with a over sized ego and a huge chip on his shoulder.

And looking at how things have been over last couple of weeks, totally, utterly dead, any bar off main street lucky to get more than handful of customers, even some middle of tiger 2 bars doing less than a thousand baht a night, if things don't change quickly the collapse might come quicker than anyone predicted as many bar owners drained their reserves over the last horrible 18 months

"majority he is screwing over are thai" - I've always had my suspicions about this.

I actually think many of these so called Thai bar owners are not owners at all, they are employees.

The idea being, it's a lot easier to sell a bar that is operational. A bar with "the lights on" - so to speak.

A lot harder to sell a bar that sits closed, and in darkness, with not one customer, and gathering dust.

A nice little market ploy, that the bar "needs a farang" to run it properly.

"if things don't change quickly the collapse might come quicker than anyone predicted" - I was one of those who predicted "the crash."

It was never "if" - just "when."

Corruption and greed only go in one direction, and they never turn back, and all those who suffer along the way are just collateral damage, and Phuket has a lot more collateral damage than other areas in Thailand.

[Sharp]

Saw they closed Bamboo Bar, too bad, something different...

Looks like they are building bars like all the other ones on bangla, good luck for those who will rent that now...

If who i think has taken that over actually has, it might prove interesting to keep your eye on it. Not only is he not thai but he runs also owns quite a few other very successful nightlife places around.

Will see then, location is good but if its just bars like the other ones.

Malaysian tenant, it's going to be one big bar with a live band so I'm told and not like his other establishments in soi Sea Dragon he runs

[DrDave]

Front singer is now a thai female (tomboy), with another thai girl and think malaysian guy also doing backup/lead. Was in there few nights ago (after been sujected to soi band for an hour) it was quite a relief.

Remember that bloody smoke, not seen it in long while.

But yes, it is a place to dance as well, pretty much the point of a live band. Sounds like you prefer something more like a cocktail/piano/jazz bar type of thing (something else missing from Bangla).

If just good sounds and conversation is what you want there is no need for a live band (just good dj..or hell mixtape), it would just be a waste of money. Bands are there to put on a show.

Is the tomboy singer back at New York Live again? She was really good, but left several months ago - told my wife she was going to work in PhangNa. At the time it seemed that there was some friction between her and the other female singer. The chubby Malaysian (I think) / Rasta guy who sings sometimes has improved, but is nowhere near ready for prime time. The guitar player is very good, as are the rest of the musicians. Last time we were in there (2-3 weeks ago), it was packed with young Chinese - something I had never seen before. As I mentioned in another post, they were ordering double rounds, and seemed to be stiffing the servers on tips. For those not familiar with NY Live, it's a fairly large venue on the south side of Bangla, but you can't see it during the day because vendors selling some sort of crap are setup in front of it all day, completely obliterating it from sight.

Bamboo - hadn't been there in 6 months or so, but at that time, it was dead, the band wasn't very good, and the beers were way overpriced. Wasn't surprised that it has closed.

Red Hot - on the corner of Bangla and 200Pii has a good Filipino "show band", and the customers (tourists on holiday) seem to enjoy them. Beer is a little more expensive that NY Live, at around 150 baht.

Monsoon - has really improved recently. In the past, they had a fairly weak Filipino band, which has since been replaced with another, much better Filipino (I think) band. Last visit was a few weeks ago, and they had a western tout in the street promoting bottles of Chang for 79 baht. First couple of rounds were 79 baht, then as the night went on, the price went up, but only modestly. Probably the best value on Bangla for beer and a live band. I thought the first band was good, but after they finished their set, another band took over and the place went absolutely crazy.

With that said, I really miss the old Coyote bar in Seadragon (before it was remodeled) - tiny little bar that always had a 4 piece band playing classic rock. Those days are gone forever, I'm afraid.

[TacoHell]

Business owners with the fortitude to survive and change through this temporary crisis are licking their chops. Competitors closing.

This downturn will see huge and hopefully the right kinds of investment in Phuket.

If all the sex bars closed in Phuket, does anyone really care? Not really.

[jamie obda]

Quote Lashay; "Strangely not many bars yet, but got feeling most of them know there are no buyers at the moment so they are either trying to survive until high season or walking away.....".

You make some good points in your post and I picked out the sentence above because although there may not be many bars with "for sale" signs up, I do know that in one particular Soi almost all of the bar owners would be willing to sell at a knockdown price!!

Even last night I was sitting at a bar owned by a friend, and the bars either side of him were empty, with one owner actually walking away because he was making no money, and the second owner not having enough money to pay the rent, so the owner of the Soi closed the bar.

Another bar was paying his girls a base salary, however has let most of the girls go now because the business wasn't paying and its unlikely to now anyway.

As if to add more confusion and "hard times" for some bar owners, the army has decreed that bars cannot put small chairs and tables outside of their bar area, which a lot of bars relied on for extra custom, and the local police are ensuring that this is the case, thereby reducing the potential takings for the bar owner, yet they have no problem with turning up every month to ask for their regular tea money, and even some bars are finding it difficult to pay that.

This low season is sure to see changes in Patong especially as regards to farang ownership of bars and other businesses, however to quote a real estate agent, "there is always another plane landing at the airport upon which is a farang with a lot of money and few brains and all I have to do is find them" (or words to that effect).

Just the other day I overheard a farang with his Thai lady trying to negotiate the purchase of a guesthouse so that they could "earn a living and support themselves here"............so they are out there, however nowhere near as many as before and as the reality sets in, that this place is over developed, has poor infrastructure, is overpriced and run and policed by crooks, then maybe, just maybe, they will cease to come and so will the quality tourists.

Which soi?

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[xylophone]

Saw they closed Bamboo Bar, too bad, something different...

Looks like they are building bars like all the other ones on bangla, good luck for those who will rent that now...

If who i think has taken that over actually has, it might prove interesting to keep your eye on it. Not only is he not thai but he runs also owns quite a few other very successful nightlife places around.

Will see then, location is good but if its just bars like the other ones.

Malaysian tenant, it's going to be one big bar with a live band so I'm told and not like his other establishments in soi Sea Dragon he runs

If that's the case, then I know the guy and he is a good operator, however even his establishments in Soi Sea Dragon are suffering from a lack of punters, so let's hope he does something different here.

I believe there is always room for a really good establishment with a good live band offering, especially if it is slightly "different" from the rest of the pack.

[KarenBravo]

Business owners with the fortitude to survive and change through this temporary crisis are licking their chops. Competitors closing.

This downturn will see huge and hopefully the right kinds of investment in Phuket.

If all the sex bars closed in Phuket, does anyone really care? Not really.

Spoken like a true management consultant.

Temporary crisis? You think?

Edited July 3, 2015 by KarenBravo