Patong is dead.

[xylophone]

Well low season is well and truly here and as if in keeping with this, one can rent a room in Nanai Road for 300 baht a night, which is the lowest I've ever seen and they are probably hoping that customers will dine in their newly opened Italian restaurant (or should I say newly, newly reopened) but as yet I've seen nobody eating in the place!

 

Some bars in Bangla on Saturday and Tuesday were experiencing some good custom, but then again a lot of them weren't although I'd have to say that it was not bad at all for low season when this is supposedly going to be the lowest of the low seasons. Seems to be extremely variable according to some bar owner friends.

 

I spent Tuesday evening at a friends bar and I was doing some people watching, this especially as just a few days earlier I'd been introduced to a person who was "fronting" for a new establishment which will be supposedly opening in October and I was interested in seeing the local demographics, down and dirty as they say.

 

What I saw and what I believe I already knew doesn't bode well for this new establishment because it is aiming for the higher class clientele who would be able to avail themselves of a lounge bar, restaurant (with European menu by the looks of things) and nightclub within the same complex. Despite that it is going to be located in one of the "less salubrious" part of town.........??

 

So looking around Bangla and the bars with the above in mind, I really couldn't see anyone who would appear to fit the bill. There were overweight, tattooed and pierced Aussie bogan's aplenty, a few Chinese parties hogging one beer or a soft drink with hordes of them also moving in unison up and down Bangla, but not visiting a bar. And of course there were the usual Indians or Pakistanis wandering around sharing a lemonade and trying to secure the services of a bar girl, to be shared amongst the group, for 500 baht!

 

Outside of that there were some every day average folk in the bars, and more than a fair smattering of younger folk, but nowhere did I see the sort of clientele that this new establishment seemed to be aiming at. Maybe I've got it completely wrong, but I did go on to their website and although the marketing of it wasn't that special (mixed messages) it did try to convey something a little classy.

 

My experience previously, and especially that night where I was particularly focused on this, has led me to believe that although there may be places here which do cater for the upmarket clientele such as "the ninth floor" restaurant and maybe a few restaurants in the top hotels, I really can't recall seeing any "classy folk" in Patong for many years, whether it be in Bangla, nice restaurants or Jungceylon!

 

As I mentioned many posts ago, perhaps Patong has now got what it deserves and instead of being built into a classy venue and "playground", it is a mecca for bogans, drunks, cheapskates and cheap travellers in general.

 

I really can't see this new establishment succeeding, but would love to be proven wrong.

[eisfeld]

51 minutes ago, xylophone said:

a mecca for bogans, drunks, cheapskates and cheap travellers in general.

 

Isn't that exactly the reputation that Patong has had for a while now? I certainly would describe it that way and even before I visited it the first time, that's the description people gave me.

[LivinginKata]

Just today talking with one of my guests who now owns a number of bars in Bangla. He tells me that there is no way he is paying the usual key money at the end of his 3 year contracts.  These days plenty of owners are eager to negotiate just to get rental income. He thinks the days of the key money are over.

[xylophone]

31 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

 

Isn't that exactly the reputation that Patong has had for a while now? I certainly would describe it that way and even before I visited it the first time, that's the description people gave me.

 

You are probably right, however if it is at all possible it has gone downhill since my first visit 12 yrs ago and what I was trying to convey is that it could have been so much more....... 

[xylophone]

23 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

Just today talking with one of my guests who now owns a number of bars in Bangla. He tells me that there is no way he is paying the usual key money at the end of his 3 year contracts.  These days plenty of owners are eager to negotiate just to get rental income. He thinks the days of the key money are over.

 

Agree as other bar owners have said the same.........but as a real estate agent here told me a few years ago, "there is always another farang arriving on the plane who has little idea and few brains and who will buy a bar/guest house/restaurant no matter what, and it's my job to find them".

 

This esp if they meet "the love of their life" and want to please them. As for key money, well there are a few "landlords" who will try to negotiate, but what they lose in key money they try to add on to the rent! Always another fool available!

[Lashay]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

, I really can't recall seeing any "classy folk" in Patong for many years, whether it be in Bangla, nice restaurants or Jungceylon!

 

As I mentioned many posts ago, perhaps Patong has now got what it deserves and instead of being built into a classy venue and "playground", it is a mecca for bogans, drunks, cheapskates and cheap travellers in general.

 

I really can't see this new establishment succeeding, but would love to be proven wrong.

Don't think Patong ever has been or ever will a destination for 'classy folk's'. The whole sex of sale thing puts those types off. It's only real claim to 'superiority' has been better class/type of customer than Pattaya while fully functioning and lively all year around,unlike other towns on Island/most tourist destinations in rest of country.

 

 

 

56 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

Agree as other bar owners have said the same.........but as a real estate agent here told me a few years ago, "there is always another farang arriving on the plane who has little idea and few brains and who will buy a bar/guest house/restaurant no matter what, and it's my job to find them".

 

This esp if they meet "the love of their life" and want to please them. As for key money, well there are a few "landlords" who will try to negotiate, but what they lose in key money they try to add on to the rent! Always another fool available!

While there will always be fools looking to be parted with their cash, from the amount of places sitting empty for extended periods  I think they are getting thinner on the ground as the numbers add up less and less.

 

As to the removal of key money meaning higher rent, see no issue with that, in most cases key money was just 50- 70% of rent in advance anyway. But now the renter is not locked in due massive up front cash from the get go, so if failing they can walk away, which should make landlords (especially in complexes/sois) more cooperative as they will not be sitting on big piles of keymoney waiting on next buyer rather they start losing from day one  of vacancy.

[Underthescope]

Amazing how much has been renovated and rebuilt even all over Patong lately. But traffic lights are still down - they put the on/off switch inside the concrete :)

But I would say that there are plenty of tourists still coming and alot of investments being made for the future.

[eisfeld]

With that new "roundabout" on the southern end, there'll be plenty of more people injured or dead in the future. It's too tiny and not even centered so people cut on the inside when turning right! How can they mess up something like that? Completely ridicolous.

 

Oh and the newly paved road coming from Kamala also is already heavily deformed and feels like riding on waves.

[LivinginKata]

14 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

With that new "roundabout" on the southern end, there'll be plenty of more people injured or dead in the future. It's too tiny and not even centered so people cut on the inside when turning right! How can they mess up something like that? Completely ridicolous.

 

 

Months ago I mentioned that 'roundabout' was off center, and what did they do .... move it more off center. Large vehicles cannot execute a turn into Nanai Road. In my small car I always take the correct turn then have to avoid m/bikes taking the inside route. To be honest I don't blame the m/bkes as nothing is clear about this junction.  Nightmare ...

 

edit - and years ago they paid for traffic lights to be installed. Sometimes on, mostly off.  So now lights and mm2 roundabout.

Edited September 27, 2016 by LivinginKata

[xylophone]

16 hours ago, Das Manure said:

Amazing how much has been renovated and rebuilt even all over Patong lately. But traffic lights are still down - they put the on/off switch inside the concrete :)

But I would say that there are plenty of tourists still coming and alot of investments being made for the future.

 

I'm sure that the folk who invested in the Ace condominiums and The Park Condominiums are not that amazed at what has happened because it doesn't seem like they will get their money back any time soon!

 

I don't know about many investments being made for the future, because I think these investments, such as they are, are being made for the "now" in order to try and get some money out of a flagging tourist venue. In addition, when one "investment" is made, another one done previously suffers and this is no more evident than in the amount of small to medium size hotels/guesthouses which are on the market because someone has built yet another, but larger place. It is in fact a merry-go-round.

 

In order to cater for the huge influx of Chinese tourists, rich and powerful people in high places have built huge tourist souvenir venues and the car parks in these places are often filled with Chinese tour buses. How long will it be before these poor unsuspecting tourists realise that they are being ripped off and they cease to visit?

 

In my opinion, investments for the future here in Patong should be focused on building better roads,  repairing the ones which are in a sad state of repair, and that includes most of them, improving the drainage, improving the one-way system, getting rid of many of the tuk tuks and of course stop building stupid underpasses which cost a fortune and line many people's pockets, yet remain poorly constructed.

 

You can be assured that any investments made in Patong are made purely out of greed, tainted with corruption and not really aimed at providing a memorable holiday experience, neither are they an investment for the future. 

 

 

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

<snip>

In order to cater for the huge influx of Chinese tourists, rich and powerful people in high places have built huge tourist souvenir venues and the car parks in these places are often filled with Chinese tour buses. How long will it be before these poor unsuspecting tourists realise that they are being ripped off and they cease to visit?

 

 

But they are only here for a few days, taken everywhere by bus, tour guide tells me they are getting a great bargain. Guide pockets his commission, tourists are happy ....

[xylophone]

8 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

But they are only here for a few days, taken everywhere by bus, tour guide tells me they are getting a great bargain. Guide pockets his commission, tourists are happy ....

 

Seems that way doesn't it, that is until the tourists find out they can buy the same latex and other stuff cheaper in the likes of Robinson's or Tesco's or Homepro for that matter......

 

And I'm not sure that they are "an investment for the future" either, this because already the Thai government is cracking down on "zero baht tourists" and increasing the cost of visas so this might be relatively short lived.........and for every one of those tourist emporiums which has many buses parked outside, I have seen others which have been empty, time and time again.

[LivinginKata]

59 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

Seems that way doesn't it, that is until the tourists find out they can buy the same latex and other stuff cheaper in the likes of Robinson's or Tesco's or Homepro for that matter......

 

And I'm not sure that they are "an investment for the future" either, this because already the Thai government is cracking down on "zero baht tourists" and increasing the cost of visas so this might be relatively short lived.........and for every one of those tourist emporiums which has many buses parked outside, I have seen others which have been empty, time and time again.

 

But the bus does not take them to likes of Robinsons or Tescos or HomePro ... those on the group tour have no idea of local prices. Those indepenant Chinese travelers do ...

 

The empty 'emporiums' are those that are not paying high enough commissions to the guides/operators. It's all a house of cards soon to fall down.

[AJBangkok]

For all the talk about zero baht tourists a chunk load of money is still coming in. I agree it's not finding its way into the traditional pockets but someone is raking it in.

 

 

[Lashay]

5 hours ago, AJBangkok said:

For all the talk about zero baht tourists a chunk load of money is still coming in. I agree it's not finding its way into the traditional pockets but someone is raking it in.

 

 

Except this is an estimated figure mainly based on arrivals combined with estimated expenditure per person.

 

They have been estimating average chinese spend is 5k+ per day per person but as revealed last week when they set a minium price for tours, bulk of Chinese are spending far far less.

 

Always be very careful with macroeconomic figures, especially when from country's without good data collection/taxation systems as the bulk of data is just estimated on back of very limited data.

[madmitch]

I drove along Patong Beach Road for the first time in a while yesterday. Whether or not Patong was dead with regard to numbers of people I couldn't say but it's certainly not dead when it comes to vehicle numbers: the crawl along the Beach Road; the line of tuktuks on the right; pedestrians attempting to inconvenience drivers by having the gall to cross the road; drivers reversing into angled parking spots that have never had the angle changed to accommodate the one way traffic flow; and new, bright yellow signs for "Meter Taxi Stands".  Yes, meter taxi stands. I've never noticed these before, nor did I notice any meter taxis using them, just tuktuks, yellow stickered/green plate taxis and even the odd minibus.

 

Is this new? Is it for real? Are meter taxis really operating in Patong?

[NamKangMan]

On 30/09/2016 at 1:32 PM, AJBangkok said:

For all the talk about zero baht tourists a chunk load of money is still coming in. I agree it's not finding its way into the traditional pockets but someone is raking it in.

 

 

 

I read an interesting article in Th Bangkok Post a few weeks ago.  Due to Forum rules, I can not post a link.  However, the article stated, due to the crackdown on Chinese nominee businesses, particularly the well document seizure of assets from a Phuket company, Chinese tourism declined by 20%.

 

That's quite a loss of money.

 

So, if they keep raiding these Chinese companies, it's possible the Chinese operators may take there package holiday makers elsewhere. 

 

If the Thai authorities on Phuket continue to treat the Chinese businesses, in the same way they have treated the foreigners in business in the past, and with the Chinese being one of the last markets available to Phuket, then, it's all over for Phuket.  

 

[NamKangMan]

On 03/10/2016 at 2:41 AM, NamKangMan said:

 

I read an interesting article in Th Bangkok Post a few weeks ago.  Due to Forum rules, I can not post a link.  However, the article stated, due to the crackdown on Chinese nominee businesses, particularly the well document seizure of assets from a Phuket company, Chinese tourism declined by 20%.

 

That's quite a loss of money.

 

So, if they keep raiding these Chinese companies, it's possible the Chinese operators may take there package holiday makers elsewhere. 

 

If the Thai authorities on Phuket continue to treat the Chinese businesses, in the same way they have treated the foreigners in business in the past, and with the Chinese being one of the last markets available to Phuket, then, it's all over for Phuket.  

 

 

 

Further to this post, this thread is running on the Pattaya forum.  A possible downturn of 50%.

 

 

[xylophone]

Lots of mixed messages in all sorts of posts regarding this, including your one from Pattaya (thank you) and the benefits, or not, of this "slowdown" could be argued forever!

 

If most of the money was finding its way back to China in the first place, then places like Patong will not suffer too much, however it appears that Pattaya is suffering? I don't see too much of a downturn here (although I'm not sure that I would notice a 20% downturn) because places like Big C are still busy with these people filling their trolleys full of dried noodles, dried seaweed, dried fruit and spices etc and creating a noisy mayhem into the bargain, and many can be found eating their dried fruit in Starbucks, gathered around in large groups and creating all sorts of havoc with their shouting and screaming, let alone allowing their kids to run around in the place like it was a playground.

 

If you add to that their total disregard to common sense when walking several abreast in the road, as well as their insane activities on the scooters, then much of this is still to be seen, so how much of a slowdown has there really been?

 

I would like to thought that this slowdown, allied with the low season being here would have meant things would have changed for the better with regards to life in Patong and one of these things in particular is the traffic, which doesn't seem to have improved one iota and just yesterday travelling  from Kalim into Patong at around 1 p.m. there was a traffic queue from the dolphin roundabout back for about 1 km.

 

I've also been caught in traffic jams at the traffic lights where the new middle road meets Phra Baramee Road and along the Beach Road, and this is all supposedly in the low season, so what conclusions to draw?

 

Has the influx of Chinese tourists made Patong a better place? Certainly not in my opinion as it has taken it to a new lower-level, and I doubt whether much money is being made here outside of jetski operators and the like and possibly Big C, with most of the money going back to China in one way or another.

 

The traffic situation here is bad and has been getting slowly worse and certainly the influx of these tourists (although supposedly falling, but certainly in more numbers than before) and their buses has not helped, nor have they helped road safety here with their idiotic shenanigans on scooters.

 

So, if these cheap tourists are not the saviours of the Thailand tourist industry and much of the money is going back to China, then no one will miss them, so the downturn, here especially, is basically due to the fact that Patong, if not dying, is certainly not the drawcard it used to be.

 

To support this theory a little anecdotal evidence from folks I know who own guest houses and businesses here would be the fact that they've had cancellations due to a number of things – – the recent bombings in Phuket and Pattaya coupled with the bombings at the shrine in Bangkok and in the south creating a situation that Thailand is not that stable/safe. Warnings from various embassies regarding the safety of travel in Thailand, poor press about Thailand in general and the fact that other destinations are promoting themselves and looking better value.

 

So what to make of all this – – the Chinese tourists are not the saviours of tourism here; less folk are travelling here because of the perceived safety of the place; bad press with regards to Thailand, beatings, thugs etc; word-of-mouth with regards to Patong going downhill and becoming less farang friendly; corruption being the number one pastime.....and so on.

 

I was about to pose the question, if this is the case, then why is the traffic so bad and I think I pretty well answered it myself. Despite the falloff in Chinese tourists, more are coming here than did before; cheap flights have brought in low-end travellers from other countries (and they are easy to spot); and corruption means that more taxis and tuk tuks are allowed on the roads, when there is absolutely no space for them to park and operate and of course the old perennial with regards to the state of the roads here in Patong and the ludicrous one-way system.

 

Oh well, rant over.............

 

 

[lumply]

On 31 January 2015 at 4:37 PM, 2fishin2 said:

Murican and I aint broke

 

Nor I

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎31‎.‎01‎.‎2015 at 5:34 PM, billythehat said:

Brits?...I’m not skint and neither are many of the quality Brit tourists I know that visit Lalaland. No Sir, I think there are many and varied reasons why folk are not going there...kop some of NKM’s sermons for the unfortunate low-down. Arh, the good old days...

EXACTLY.

I won't go to, or recommend Phuket because the place has serious problems that have nothing to do with the economic situation overseas. They have been able to keep the truth hidden for a while, but eventually it always comes out. Can't keep the reality hidden when google exists.

 

PS, I visited many times in the early 90s, but it isn't like that anymore. Self inflicted wound.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎05‎.‎10‎.‎2016 at 1:02 PM, xylophone said:

Lots of mixed messages in all sorts of posts regarding this, including your one from Pattaya (thank you) and the benefits, or not, of this "slowdown" could be argued forever!

 

 

 

I would like to thought that this slowdown, allied with the low season being here would have meant things would have changed for the better with regards to life in Patong and one of these things in particular is the traffic, which doesn't seem to have improved one iota and just yesterday travelling  from Kalim into Patong at around 1 p.m. there was a traffic queue from the dolphin roundabout back for about 1 km.

 

 

The traffic situation here is bad and has been getting slowly worse and certainly the influx of these tourists (although supposedly falling, but certainly in more numbers than before) and their buses has not helped, nor have they helped road safety here with their idiotic shenanigans on scooters.

 

 

 

 

Quote edited for brevity.

 

Pattaya sounds much the same. Too much traffic and lots of people, but businesses are suffering.

 

Plenty of people that don't sit in bars and take the bargirls out. The bars are really suffering because there is an obvious lack of mongers. However, IMO, that is because the prices have gone up too much, and the service has gone down. Completely self inflicted. They are trying to drive mongers out of Pattaya and seem to be succeeding.

[KarenBravo]

Yes, all self-inflicted.

See the "have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too" attitude from TAT. Appealing for quality tourists, yet, succeeding in bringing the cheapest tourists in unprecedented numbers to Thailand.

As to the bar scene and if you're a monger, the main two reasons for coming here are gone. The prices for a "pleasurable evening" are on par with Europe. Also, the women in the trade are now just as greedy as all the other Patong businesses. The GFE which made this country different has gone the way of the Dodo.

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Quote edited for brevity.

 

Pattaya sounds much the same. Too much traffic and lots of people, but businesses are suffering.

 

Plenty of people that don't sit in bars and take the bargirls out. The bars are really suffering because there is an obvious lack of mongers. However, IMO, that is because the prices have gone up too much, and the service has gone down. Completely self inflicted. They are trying to drive mongers out of Pattaya and seem to be succeeding.

 

Really don't know anything about Pattaya as have only been there once many years ago, however as KarenBravo has said, TAT have succeeded in bringing the cheapest tourists here and also the bar scene has rapidly died due to the GFC and rising prices here, not to mention the attitude of the girls.

 

But what I can't understand is although small businesses are struggling, many bars and small businesses are for sale and many bar owners are saying that things have got to change otherwise they will walk away, why are more bars and the like are being built?

 

What was once a large car park off Soi Sansabai is being turned into, "Patong Night Bazaar" with lots of very small stalls up for rent, along with a few bars; the Valero guesthouse on Nanai seems to have changed hands and is now "delicious residence"; a small bar opposite Chang Residence has opened up, next to one that closed about two months ago because it wasn't doing any business; the "Fries and sausages" kiosk at the back of Jungceylon, near Starbucks, has also been sold and not surprising because it did very little business, but someone has bought it??

 

That's what makes this place such an enigma – – why is all this happening when many small businesses are struggling and the place is supposedly dying?

[Bulldozer Dawn]

I was unfortunate enough to have to return to Patong for a few days last week.  I had some American friends over who work in the UAE.  We did a stroll down Bangla at about 7pm.  My friends wife is very well educated, and very well travelled (Army Brat).  She was visibly frightened by the wall to wall hiphopslims that now make up 95% of Patong's visitors.  Bar girls must be doing it so tuff now.  Mohamed ain't going to pay for any sick buffalo.

[Asiantravel]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

 

Really don't know anything about Pattaya as have only been there once many years ago, however as KarenBravo has said, TAT have succeeded in bringing the cheapest tourists here and also the bar scene has rapidly died due to the GFC and rising prices here, not to mention the attitude of the girls.

 

But what I can't understand is although small businesses are struggling, many bars and small businesses are for sale and many bar owners are saying that things have got to change otherwise they will walk away, why are more bars and the like are being built?

 

What was once a large car park off Soi Sansabai is being turned into, "Patong Night Bazaar" with lots of very small stalls up for rent, along with a few bars; the Valero guesthouse on Nanai seems to have changed hands and is now "delicious residence"; a small bar opposite Chang Residence has opened up, next to one that closed about two months ago because it wasn't doing any business; the "Fries and sausages" kiosk at the back of Jungceylon, near Starbucks, has also been sold and not surprising because it did very little business, but someone has bought it??

 

That's what makes this place such an enigma – – why is all this happening when many small businesses are struggling and the place is supposedly dying?

 

 

" why are more bars and the like are being built?  "

 

same with shophouses in Pattaya. There are empty shophouses all over the place in Pattaya but does this the people from building even more? Not at all

 

[xylophone]

27 minutes ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

She was visibly frightened by the wall to wall hiphopslims that now make up 95% of Patong's visitors

 

Some hyperbole here (95%) I suspect, but those folks are def on the increase and those along with other cheap visitors from India and Pakistan are for sure not going to pay for anything if they can help it, let alone a buffalo!!!

 

And yes the girls are doing it tough and I know this because I have spoken to quite a few of the bargirls and the Bangla freelancers, not to mention girls I know who work in the massage business.

 

Feel sorry for some "recent starters" because they came here looking to make a living and are making just about nothing, whereas the older/wiser ones seem able to scrape through....just.

[GiantFan]

Pulled the plug on themselves.

[KarenBravo]

Sod 'em all....

[NamKangMan]

21 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Yes, all self-inflicted.

See the "have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too" attitude from TAT. Appealing for quality tourists, yet, succeeding in bringing the cheapest tourists in unprecedented numbers to Thailand.

As to the bar scene and if you're a monger, the main two reasons for coming here are gone. The prices for a "pleasurable evening" are on par with Europe. Also, the women in the trade are now just as greedy as all the other Patong businesses. The GFE which made this country different has gone the way of the Dodo.

 

 

"Appealing for quality tourists, yet, succeeding in bringing the cheapest tourists in unprecedented numbers to Thailand." - it doesn't help that the performance of the TAT is based purely on the amount of tourists they can attract to Phuket, not the REAL average daily spend of those tourists, which is where their "quality" can be judged.  Not to mention, a lot of the profits from Chinese tourism being repatriated back to China.

 

Phuket has something for everyone, and there is a place for the Chinese package holiday market here, but the TAT has never addressed the reasons why it has lost so much market share of the western tourism market, which is traditionally more lucrative, and continues to lose this market in increasing numbers.  That said, most of the main reasons for this rapid decrease are out of the TAT's control. 

 

Currently, the TAT's only answer is to replace the lost western tourists numbers with increasing Chinese tourists numbers, but in doing this, you do not see a corresponding increase in the flow of money into the Phuket economy, particular through the hospitality industry here.  Thus, Phuket has a contracting economy, which is something that will eventually affect ALL expats here, most likely in the "choice" of goods and services available here, and their cost.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by NamKangMan