Patong is dead.

[KarenBravo]

So.....if someone says on the internet that the market ruined the street you'll believe it, but you won't believe two people that have posted here saying that?

Did you ever see Patpong in the early to mid 80's before the market was established?

I think you'll find that the market changing the character of the street for the worst is common knowledge amongst expats..........but, then again, I guess not.

Edited February 8, 2015 by KarenBravo

[uptheos]

I went back to Patong two years ago after many years.

Absolutely hated the place, will never return or recommend it.

[hansgruber]

It's been dead a long time and it was never really busy in the first place.

If any place has suffered from the change to family tourism, it's Kata Centre.

It used to be very busy 10 years ago. Shops commanded huge key money because nothing else was in the area. Now I can count 15 vacant shops for rent. 10 years ago before kata centre was there it was jungle all the way up to Rico steak house.

Just had a row of bars where opposite the start of club med. That's it.

Over development killed Thaina Rd.

Going back even further when red rose bar and that zone existed.

But now the key money demanded is even higher than when the street was busy and successful. Usual Thai business logic. And when a business does well the landlords increase the rent to try to make up some of the overall loss of income and so the existing tenants pull out as well (Happened with Dukes).

The only successful business on Thaina Road now appears to be Doctor Chusak!

Chusak is full from open til close.

I can count 15 shops for rent in that street now when 10 years ago it was impossible to find one available.

It's a shame Dukes was pushed out due to rent increase, other restaurants next to him thrived off Duke's clientele so once he went, other businesses died.

Maybe the new resort being built behind Kata Pharmacy will lift the street out of its rut.

[elgenon]

So.....if someone says on the internet that the market ruined the street you'll believe it, but you won't believe two people that have posted here saying that?

Did you ever see Patpong in the early to mid 80's before the market was established?

I think you'll find that the market changing the character of the street for the worst is common knowledge amongst expats..........but, then again, I guess not.

I was there starting in 1983. "Common knowledge" ? Some people liked it, some didn't. Like anything else. Why would it lead to a decline in the bars? Don't get it. Though I get you don't like it.

Funny we are doing this side discussion.

FYI An American owns Bacarra and a bunch of bars in Soi Cowboy and other places. He recently bought Nana Plaza and owns most of the bars there. The bars haven't folded there because of the Asians. Any bar that is doing well i.e. the Rainbows is due to Asians. Can they last? I hope they do. Let's recruit more farangs. I am sure you know there are many girls who won't even go with a farang. And many who try to look Japanese.

[KarenBravo]

If you were there in 1983, then you would know that Patpong went rapidly down-hill when the market came in the late 80's (from a mongering point of view, not a shoppers).

Don't know why you're warbling about Asian customers. What's that got to do with the subject?

Edited February 8, 2015 by KarenBravo

[LivinginKata]

It's been dead a long time and it was never really busy in the first place.

If any place has suffered from the change to family tourism, it's Kata Centre.

It used to be very busy 10 years ago. Shops commanded huge key money because nothing else was in the area. Now I can count 15 vacant shops for rent. 10 years ago before kata centre was there it was jungle all the way up to Rico steak house.

Just had a row of bars where opposite the start of club med. That's it.

Over development killed Thaina Rd.

Going back even further when red rose bar and that zone existed.

But now the key money demanded is even higher than when the street was busy and successful. Usual Thai business logic. And when a business does well the landlords increase the rent to try to make up some of the overall loss of income and so the existing tenants pull out as well (Happened with Dukes).

The only successful business on Thaina Road now appears to be Doctor Chusak!

Chusak is full from open til close.

I can count 15 shops for rent in that street now when 10 years ago it was impossible to find one available.

It's a shame Dukes was pushed out due to rent increase, other restaurants next to him thrived off Duke's clientele so once he went, other businesses died.

Maybe the new resort being built behind Kata Pharmacy will lift the street out of its rut.

Thaina road decline saddens me. My first visit to Phuket almost 19 years ago on a short work break and I landed up at the original Peach Hill hotel at the Kata center end of Thaina. I ate in the old Anchor bar, the Bluefin, and the Dive Cafe (now a 7-11). Only the Bluefin survives, I still eat there and year on year see more for rent signs going up. For sure the centre of 'interest' has expanded dramatically in Kata, I guess that road oppisite the market is the new Thaina Road, and look how many years many brand new shop houses were empty. Many still empty.

[madmitch]

So.....if someone says on the internet that the market ruined the street you'll believe it, but you won't believe two people that have posted here saying that?

Did you ever see Patpong in the early to mid 80's before the market was established?

I think you'll find that the market changing the character of the street for the worst is common knowledge amongst expats..........but, then again, I guess not.

I was there starting in 1983. "Common knowledge" ? Some people liked it, some didn't. Like anything else. Why would it lead to a decline in the bars? Don't get it. Though I get you don't like it.

Funny we are doing this side discussion.

FYI An American owns Bacarra and a bunch of bars in Soi Cowboy and other places. He recently bought Nana Plaza and owns most of the bars there. The bars haven't folded there because of the Asians. Any bar that is doing well i.e. the Rainbows is due to Asians. Can they last? I hope they do. Let's recruit more farangs. I am sure you know there are many girls who won't even go with a farang. And many who try to look Japanese.

FYI Baccara is owned by a French guy called Patrick and I'm pretty sure that Nana Plaza's main landowners are a Thai/Indian family.

A bit off topic however!

[KarenBravo]

Actually, you were correct, but, a an infamous boiler room group bought the land from the Nana family two, or three years ago with their ill-gotten gains.

[falkan]

@ Starbucks right now and It's packed with people around Jungceylon

[Sharp]

So.....if someone says on the internet that the market ruined the street you'll believe it, but you won't believe two people that have posted here saying that?

Did you ever see Patpong in the early to mid 80's before the market was established?

I think you'll find that the market changing the character of the street for the worst is common knowledge amongst expats..........but, then again, I guess not.

I was there starting in 1983. "Common knowledge" ? Some people liked it, some didn't. Like anything else. Why would it lead to a decline in the bars? Don't get it. Though I get you don't like it.

Funny we are doing this side discussion.

FYI An American owns Bacarra and a bunch of bars in Soi Cowboy and other places. He recently bought Nana Plaza and owns most of the bars there. The bars haven't folded there because of the Asians. Any bar that is doing well i.e. the Rainbows is due to Asians. Can they last? I hope they do. Let's recruit more farangs. I am sure you know there are many girls who won't even go with a farang. And many who try to look Japanese.

WRONG.... A Consortium including an American, British,Irish and Indian have brought the lease on the above.

[Valentine]

So.....if someone says on the internet that the market ruined the street you'll believe it, but you won't believe two people that have posted here saying that?

Did you ever see Patpong in the early to mid 80's before the market was established?

I think you'll find that the market changing the character of the street for the worst is common knowledge amongst expats..........but, then again, I guess not.

I was there starting in 1983. "Common knowledge" ? Some people liked it, some didn't. Like anything else. Why would it lead to a decline in the bars? Don't get it. Though I get you don't like it.

Funny we are doing this side discussion.

FYI An American owns Bacarra and a bunch of bars in Soi Cowboy and other places. He recently bought Nana Plaza and owns most of the bars there. The bars haven't folded there because of the Asians. Any bar that is doing well i.e. the Rainbows is due to Asians. Can they last? I hope they do. Let's recruit more farangs. I am sure you know there are many girls who won't even go with a farang. And many who try to look Japanese.

WRONG.... A Consortium including an American, British,Irish and Indian have brought the lease on the above.

If they used money from a boiler room operation shouldn't they be investigated? Rhetorical question & off topic but something similar most likely happens for purchases in Patong as well.

[spidermike007]

Interesting. Samui is as busy as I have ever seen it. Places are packed out. Of course the bar scene is in decline, as it has been for years. But the restaurants and hotels seems to be doing just fine. A friend of mine owns a resort with 10 villas, and he is fully occupied.

Traffic is getting worse all the time, and development is rampant right now. Villas going up everywhere. I predict Samui will look like the Legian area of Bali within 5 to 10 years. Utter gridlock. A tropical version of Manhattan. Zero in the way of planning. Nothing is really improving. The island is going downhill very quickly. Not too far behind Phuket. Very typical of the utter lack of leadership on Samui. No regulation, no law enforcement, no interest from the government, nor the army.

I think it is possible Patong has simply lost its appeal. It is a truly hellish place on earth. Bangla road is horrific. The prices are stunningly high, for everything. Possible they simply priced themselves out of the market?

[KarenBravo]

It's not the business owners that are pricing themselves out of the market. It's the land-lords with their ever increasing rents that force the prices up.

[Sharp]

So.....if someone says on the internet that the market ruined the street you'll believe it, but you won't believe two people that have posted here saying that?

Did you ever see Patpong in the early to mid 80's before the market was established?

I think you'll find that the market changing the character of the street for the worst is common knowledge amongst expats..........but, then again, I guess not.

I was there starting in 1983. "Common knowledge" ? Some people liked it, some didn't. Like anything else. Why would it lead to a decline in the bars? Don't get it. Though I get you don't like it.

Funny we are doing this side discussion.

FYI An American owns Bacarra and a bunch of bars in Soi Cowboy and other places. He recently bought Nana Plaza and owns most of the bars there. The bars haven't folded there because of the Asians. Any bar that is doing well i.e. the Rainbows is due to Asians. Can they last? I hope they do. Let's recruit more farangs. I am sure you know there are many girls who won't even go with a farang. And many who try to look Japanese.

WRONG.... A Consortium including an American, British,Irish and Indian have brought the lease on the above.

If they used money from a boiler room operation shouldn't they be investigated? Rhetorical question & off topic but something similar most likely happens for purchases in Patong as well.

You obviously know the score!!

[NamKangMan]

It's not the business owners that are pricing themselves out of the market. It's the land-lords with their ever increasing rents that force the prices up.

I agree KB. The high rents are a large portion of the accommodation, food and beverage prices.

It's the ever greedy Thai landlords that are pricing Phuket out of the market, and there is very little a foreign business owner can do about it, other than to look for an alternative premises to rent, or "walk away" at the end of the lease.

I have spoken to two ex-bar onwers that simply let the lease run out and quit the business - didn't even try to sell. The Thai landlord was not even open to negotiations. So, it's certainly not the foreign bar owners making all the money.

"They" (the Thai landlords) were always going to push the commercial rental market here to breaking point, and I think they have found that point, especially in relation to the western market, with many holidaying elsewhere now.

[elgenon]

If you were there in 1983, then you would know that Patpong went rapidly down-hill when the market came in the late 80's (from a mongering point of view, not a shoppers).

Don't know why you're warbling about Asian customers. What's that got to do with the subject?

Duh. It has to do with the health of the bars which is what you are talking about. Or am I wrong?

[elgenon]

So.....if someone says on the internet that the market ruined the street you'll believe it, but you won't believe two people that have posted here saying that?

Did you ever see Patpong in the early to mid 80's before the market was established?

I think you'll find that the market changing the character of the street for the worst is common knowledge amongst expats..........but, then again, I guess not.

I was there starting in 1983. "Common knowledge" ? Some people liked it, some didn't. Like anything else. Why would it lead to a decline in the bars? Don't get it. Though I get you don't like it.

Funny we are doing this side discussion.

FYI An American owns Bacarra and a bunch of bars in Soi Cowboy and other places. He recently bought Nana Plaza and owns most of the bars there. The bars haven't folded there because of the Asians. Any bar that is doing well i.e. the Rainbows is due to Asians. Can they last? I hope they do. Let's recruit more farangs. I am sure you know there are many girls who won't even go with a farang. And many who try to look Japanese.

WRONG.... A Consortium including an American, British,Irish and Indian have brought the lease on the above.

If they used money from a boiler room operation shouldn't they be investigated? Rhetorical question & off topic but something similar most likely happens for purchases in Patong as well.

You obviously know the score!!

I am just repeating what a long time rich resident has told me and what several momasans have told me. IMHO momasons know what goes on. It is imperative for their well being. But I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

I have gone into several bars and asked about the owner and it has been the same guy. An American accountant. Doesn't matter to me. I just want to bars to stay open. Which IMHO looks shaky. He keeps changing the names of the bars,if you have noticed,. But the same owner.

[elgenon]

Interesting. Samui is as busy as I have ever seen it. Places are packed out. Of course the bar scene is in decline, as it has been for years. But the restaurants and hotels seems to be doing just fine. A friend of mine owns a resort with 10 villas, and he is fully occupied.

Traffic is getting worse all the time, and development is rampant right now. Villas going up everywhere. I predict Samui will look like the Legian area of Bali within 5 to 10 years. Utter gridlock. A tropical version of Manhattan. Zero in the way of planning. Nothing is really improving. The island is going downhill very quickly. Not too far behind Phuket. Very typical of the utter lack of leadership on Samui. No regulation, no law enforcement, no interest from the government, nor the army.

I think it is possible Patong has simply lost its appeal. It is a truly hellish place on earth. Bangla road is horrific. The prices are stunningly high, for everything. Possible they simply priced themselves out of the market?

Sometimes greedy people can't control themselves and end up doing themselves harm?

[hansgruber]

Even Chalong is charging excessive rents. A normal 3 floor town shop on Choafa east they try and ask for 40 to 50k a month rent. It's absurd.

[spidermike007]

Interesting. Samui is as busy as I have ever seen it. Places are packed out. Of course the bar scene is in decline, as it has been for years. But the restaurants and hotels seems to be doing just fine. A friend of mine owns a resort with 10 villas, and he is fully occupied.

Traffic is getting worse all the time, and development is rampant right now. Villas going up everywhere. I predict Samui will look like the Legian area of Bali within 5 to 10 years. Utter gridlock. A tropical version of Manhattan. Zero in the way of planning. Nothing is really improving. The island is going downhill very quickly. Not too far behind Phuket. Very typical of the utter lack of leadership on Samui. No regulation, no law enforcement, no interest from the government, nor the army.

I think it is possible Patong has simply lost its appeal. It is a truly hellish place on earth. Bangla road is horrific. The prices are stunningly high, for everything. Possible they simply priced themselves out of the market?

Sometimes greedy people can't control themselves and end up doing themselves harm?

True that. It is very possible Thailand will simply end up pricing itself out of the tourist market. There are alot of alternatives. I am seeing very basic, unimproved restaurants starting to charge 100 baht for a simple curry or noodle dish. Who knows where this will end? One of the reasons many visit here is the good values. If hotels and restaurants continue raising their rates, without adding value in terms of environment and service, business could really drop off, in the long term. Inflation here is high, as the price of fruits, vegetables, meats, fish, taxis, admission fees, movie tickets, etc, etc, is really on the rise. Plus the oncoming ASEAN considerations could have a dramatic effect on Thailand. My guess is that Thailand will attempt to ignore many aspects of this treaty, and they run the risk of becoming a local pariah as a result. These are interesting times for Thailand. Much care needs to be taken, to preserve what they have. And I do not see much care being taken by those in charge. I certainly do not see much in the way of vision and strategy. The neighbors are catching up. They are trying harder. They seem to have more intelligent people in charge of the ministries, which is not a difficult thing to accomplish, considering the shocking lack of talent in Thai politics.

[Valentine]

Had an interesting conversation at the bank talking about food prices. His opinion was even if food prices here are high local Phuket people are still willing to pay as long as the food is tasty. He said where he comes from the locals will not pay high prices for food even if it is very tasty, they will simply go elsewhere. This might explain the high prices we see now, even in basic restaurants.

[schlog]

With the HR5859 the Nato/US/EU are one step closer to a big war in the Ukraine. This will not only be restricted on the Ukraine and the EU.

At this point we will only see Chinese/Koreans here and no more Russians/European/Western. 2015 will be a thrilling year for HKT and Patong.

[Felt 35]

Had an interesting conversation at the bank talking about food prices. His opinion was even if food prices here are high local Phuket people are still willing to pay as long as the food is tasty. He said where he comes from the locals will not pay high prices for food even if it is very tasty, they will simply go elsewhere. This might explain the high prices we see now, even in basic restaurants.

I'm not so sure about locals not going elsewhere also in Phuket. Well educated and salaried Thai friends quit often inform me when long established local restaurants not are to recommend anymore. Tasty = fat and even cheap cocking oil, i.e. make most things tasty, not good. Owners are more greedy and lazy, and live like a foreigner on holiday, and as with tourist replaced quality with quantity and top it up with staff who jump jobs, replaced with inexperienced but cheaper staff from neighbour countries and possible less hygienic standards do not bide well for keeping up the customer base.

[simon43]

A normal 3 floor town shop on Choafa east they try and ask for 40 to 50k a month rent. It's absurd.

Makes the 15k that I pay per month (fixed for the next 13 years), for the half rai of land where I built my last hotel seem quite a bargain

[Goldtown23]

have the tourists gone elsewhere,after we heard about the Beach Vendors,with their loungers,and umbrellas etc been taken off the beacH??

We have been coming to Thailand,since 1991,and are now in our 70's.Part of our enjoyment,was spending the days lounging on the deck chairs,under umbrellas,when we first arrieved.This saved us from burning,without some shade.Although we are from the Gold Coast,of Australia,and used to the heat,we dont lay out on our beaches,without some sort of shade.Does anyone have any idea if the vendors will be allowed back,or do we just look for a Resort,with the biggest pool?We were hoping to have another 3 weeks in May,but are re-thinking now.We love Thailand,and the Thais.Oh,well,maybe a cruise.J&B

[steelepulse]

have the tourists gone elsewhere,after we heard about the Beach Vendors,with their loungers,and umbrellas etc been taken off the beacH??

We have been coming to Thailand,since 1991,and are now in our 70's.Part of our enjoyment,was spending the days lounging on the deck chairs,under umbrellas,when we first arrieved.This saved us from burning,without some shade.Although we are from the Gold Coast,of Australia,and used to the heat,we dont lay out on our beaches,without some sort of shade.Does anyone have any idea if the vendors will be allowed back,or do we just look for a Resort,with the biggest pool?We were hoping to have another 3 weeks in May,but are re-thinking now.We love Thailand,and the Thais.Oh,well,maybe a cruise.J&B

Vendors are back, plenty of umbrellas to be purchased also, so no one needs to worry about getting burned in the sun.

[Xircal]

Phuket airport added a new terminal few years back and it seems that it's still expanding. For me that sounds that there are more flights to and from Phuket.

Some time ago I send an query to flightradar24 to ask if it would be possible to extract data from their database, how many flights and how large planes are landing to Phuket, but I never got an reply back from them. That data would not have revealed how full the flights are, but it would have given an independent indication if there has been increase or decrease of pax capacity.

Here are a few stats which might answer your query: http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/thailand-aviation-growth-slows-in-2014-as-international-traffic-drops-and-domestic-numbers-surge-206133

Finnair is supposed to have started a direct flight to Phuket from Helsinki using an Airbus 340-300, but I couldn't find anything on their own site. Here's the news report though: http://www.traveldailynews.com/news/article/59938/finnair-to-introduce-scheduled-phuket

[madmitch]

Phuket airport added a new terminal few years back and it seems that it's still expanding. For me that sounds that there are more flights to and from Phuket.

Some time ago I send an query to flightradar24 to ask if it would be possible to extract data from their database, how many flights and how large planes are landing to Phuket, but I never got an reply back from them. That data would not have revealed how full the flights are, but it would have given an independent indication if there has been increase or decrease of pax capacity.

Here are a few stats which might answer your query: http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/thailand-aviation-growth-slows-in-2014-as-international-traffic-drops-and-domestic-numbers-surge-206133

Finnair is supposed to have started a direct flight to Phuket from Helsinki using an Airbus 340-300, but I couldn't find anything on their own site. Here's the news report though: http://www.traveldailynews.com/news/article/59938/finnair-to-introduce-scheduled-phuket

It's operational and it's on their site. I looked it up as I have friends arriving on that flight on Monday. Flight number AY037.

Edited February 13, 2015 by madmitch

[NamKangMan]

Phuket airport added a new terminal few years back and it seems that it's still expanding. For me that sounds that there are more flights to and from Phuket.

Some time ago I send an query to flightradar24 to ask if it would be possible to extract data from their database, how many flights and how large planes are landing to Phuket, but I never got an reply back from them. That data would not have revealed how full the flights are, but it would have given an independent indication if there has been increase or decrease of pax capacity.

Here are a few stats which might answer your query: http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/thailand-aviation-growth-slows-in-2014-as-international-traffic-drops-and-domestic-numbers-surge-206133

Finnair is supposed to have started a direct flight to Phuket from Helsinki using an Airbus 340-300, but I couldn't find anything on their own site. Here's the news report though: http://www.traveldailynews.com/news/article/59938/finnair-to-introduce-scheduled-phuket

I would like to see some accurate statistics from tourists visiting Krabi, and surrounding islands, possibly even Samui, on the tourists who use Phuket Airport, but do not stay on Phuket for their holiday, or, only stay one night, in transit.

The Phuket Airport might be busier, but that doesn't necessarily mean Phuket is busier.

[simon43]

I would like to see some accurate statistics from tourists visiting Krabi, and surrounding islands, possibly even Samui, on the tourists who use Phuket Airport, but do not stay on Phuket for their holiday, or, only stay one night, in transit.

I have no stats, but can give you a general summary of the onward destinations of those who stay at my airport hotels. (About 50% are flying out early the next day, so I'm not sure where their last location in Thailand was).

But for the other 50%, I'd say that a growing number are not going onward to a destination in Phuket, such as Patong or Karon beach. Many are heading straight to Rassada port the next day go to Phi-Phi for a quick stopover, and then the ferry on to Lanta or Ao Nang.

A growing number are taking the ferry from Bang Rong pier to Koh Yao Noi and Yai.

Many take the bus from Meung Mai up to Khao Lak and others take the bus to Krabi/Ao Nang.

Eg - snapshot for today: 20% were flying out from the airport, 20% going up to Khao Lak, 20% going to Phi-Phi, 20% going to Koh Yao and 20% heading to Patong/Karon.

Wherever they are going, I am happy with my small business

So I definitely agree that although Phuket Airport is busy (and getting busier), the island of Phuket is not the main beneficiary of these travellers.

Now... why don't tourists want to visit Phuket anymore???

Edited February 13, 2015 by simon43