Patong is dead.

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, phuketjock said:

You, as usual, are talking nonsense.

You don't own anything here, you don't do any business here, in short everything 

you say is hearsay and secondhand info.

You, sir have no idea what you are talking about so until you do have some hard 

and fast experience about actually owning and doing business in Patong your 

opinion is nothing more than an opinion and supposition no facts involved.

 

Play the post, not the poster.

 

Do you have anything to contribute, other than personal attacks????

 

Why don't you "attack" me by posting content that shows property is moving and business is booming????

 

Geez, even LIK, who has property and a business here, said he believes the place is "failing."   Now, is his comment "hearsay" or first hand information????

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, phuketjock said:

There you go again supposition, supposition to fit your case, who said anything about my missus selling up after I am gone.

I have just about exhausted the time I am willing to spend on your clown like behaviour. have a nice day.

 

 

 

Is English your first language?

 

See the question marks??????????  How are questions suppositions??????????

 

I stated leaving a property to a spouse who is from Phuket may be of benefit, but QUESTIONED the benefit of leaving a property to a spouse who is not. 

 

Do you care to comment on this, or just continue your pathetic personal attacks?

 

 

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, phuketjock said:

I don't believe I was addressing you, are you a digital bodyguard?

I have no problem with anyone giving their opinion but I take umbridge when they 

represent their opinion as facts when they have no experience whatsoever in the

subject they claim to be expressing their " opinion " on.

It is difficult to make sense when you don't know what you are talking about.

 

For your information, I have experience in business and property.  I have made a fair bit of money from property over the years, just not on Phuket.

 

I am well aware how the property market functions, or is supposed to function. 

 

You are welcome to post anything that shows the Phuket property market is doing well.

 

 

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

If you are only posting with NKM on a personal basis, you should use the PM and not a public forum.

 

We are all entitled to an opinion and I think the NKM's posts make far more sense than many others. He seems to have his finger on the pulse.

 

Just noticed, it looks like the kindergarten kids are home now.

 

I welcome any and all PM's.  Make them as abusive as you like. 

[phuketjock]

17 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Play the post, not the poster.

 

Do you have anything to contribute, other than personal attacks????

 

Why don't you "attack" me by posting content that shows property is moving and business is booming????

 

Geez, even LIK, who has property and a business here, said he believes the place is "failing."   Now, is his comment "hearsay" or first hand information????

Haha Now you are using someone else's post to bolster your factless posts.

You cannot conjur up something that does not exist like your knowledge of 

business and property in PATONG.

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by phuketjock

[NamKangMan]

1 minute ago, phuketjock said:

Haha Now you are using someone else's post to bolster your factless posts.

You cannot conjur up something that does not exist like your knowledge of 

business and property in PATONG.

 

For someone in business here, you are on TV a lot, yet, business is booming. 

 

You said I have no right to comment because I do not own a property or a business here, so I drew your attention to comments made by someone who does, and because you don't like the reality, you resort to more person attacks.

 

Post something to show property and business are doing well here. 

 

 

[phuketjock]

4 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

For someone in business here, you are on TV a lot, yet, business is booming. 

 

You said I have no right to comment because I do not own a property or a business here, so I drew your attention to comments made by someone who does, and because you don't like the reality, you resort to more person attacks.

 

Post something to show property and business are doing well here. 

 

 

On the contrary I said anyone and everyone has every right to post their opinion on

TV . There is nothing personal about my posts, if you wish to identify with them in 

such a way that is you prerogative.

How my business is or is not doing is just that, my business, and it's highly unlikely 

that I would conform to any request by the likes of yourself.

[xylophone]

Round and round we go, but the obvious is plain to see!

 

For every business owner posting on here who is "doing well/ok" I can introduce you to another 10 who aren't...........from the biggest supermarket here to the biggest food and beverage chain, to medium sized/small restaurants, down to bars; IT IS NOT GOOD!

 

Get away from personal slights and see it for what it is..............many bars closing (look down old Tiger) bars in Soi freedom closed, restaurants closing, guest houses desperate for a client at 260 baht a night, more small shops than ever closing AND houses unsold for 10 years. then add the developments gone bust and those whose full quota was never sold. The signs are as plain as the nose on your face.

 

Sure there will be a few who have made money on property and land in the past (me included) but that was then, this is now and it is not pretty.

[madmax2]

Plenty of people here have bought property throughout the years and not overpaid for it 

Even in the last few years we and others like us have bought property at a price that we would not lose money on it if we ever decided to sell it, we will make reasonable capitol gains on it without over pricing the property

 some people who bought 10 or more years ago are sitting on a nest egg and cannot possibly lose money even if they sell at a discount price, but why should they if happy living here

Property goes thru booms and busts, and in my opinion the balloon is about to bust but this will not effect the majority of people who new what they were doing and did not believe what agents told them when trying to sell overpriced property here   

[LivinginKata]

27 minutes ago, xylophone said:

<snip>

For every business owner posting on here who is "doing well/ok" I can introduce you to another 10 who aren't...........from the biggest supermarket here to the biggest food and beverage chain, to medium sized/small restaurants, down to bars; IT IS NOT GOOD!

 

 

 

But how many of those 'business owners' actually own the land their property stands on. I would suggest that anyone 'owning' their land will be just fine. Those on a 3 year lease will not be so fine. Now I well  know that we Farangs cannot own any land and it's a struggle to keep in control of any assets..

 

Now the upfront price of buying the land/property is beyond the reach of most small business owners thus most have to lease ... disaster in waiting ...

[xylophone]

28 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 

But how many of those 'business owners' actually own the land their property stands on. I would suggest that anyone 'owning' their land will be just fine. Those on a 3 year lease will not be so fine. Now I well  know that we Farangs cannot own any land and it's a struggle to keep in control of any assets..

 

Now the upfront price of buying the land/property is beyond the reach of most small business owners thus most have to lease ... disaster in waiting ...

As you say leases are the norm here and the vast majority of farangs in business operate that way, so when the money dries up they are stuffed. 

 

The Thai landlords work on the bigger fool principle and unfortunately they are still around but not in the numbers they were before.....so something has to give. The signs are there for those who want to see them, other folk argue they are not.

 

As I mentioned a few posts ago empty shops, bars, restaurants and guest houses are testament to this, and in numbers far greater than I have ever seen before....why the deniers?? Reality bites!

[NamKangMan]

18 hours ago, phuketjock said:

On the contrary I said anyone and everyone has every right to post their opinion on

TV . There is nothing personal about my posts, if you wish to identify with them in 

such a way that is you prerogative.

How my business is or is not doing is just that, my business, and it's highly unlikely 

that I would conform to any request by the likes of yourself.

 

"How my business is or is not doing is just that, my business," - fair play.

 

Can you post anything to show the sectors of property, retail, or hospitality are doing well on Phuket?

[NamKangMan]

16 hours ago, xylophone said:

Round and round we go, but the obvious is plain to see!

 

For every business owner posting on here who is "doing well/ok" I can introduce you to another 10 who aren't...........from the biggest supermarket here to the biggest food and beverage chain, to medium sized/small restaurants, down to bars; IT IS NOT GOOD!

 

Get away from personal slights and see it for what it is..............many bars closing (look down old Tiger) bars in Soi freedom closed, restaurants closing, guest houses desperate for a client at 260 baht a night, more small shops than ever closing AND houses unsold for 10 years. then add the developments gone bust and those whose full quota was never sold. The signs are as plain as the nose on your face.

 

Sure there will be a few who have made money on property and land in the past (me included) but that was then, this is now and it is not pretty.

 

Your observations are the same as mine, yet, these observations have been called an "opinion" by some on this forum. 

 

I agree, some have made money, and some are probably still making some money, although I would suggest, not as much money as in the past, but as I have said, each "For Sale" sign and business closure tells a story, and that story is not a happy one for Patong, or Phuket. 

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Here is a new line of debate if anyone is interested.

 

I should be able to contribute something to the discussion...I am a published author on the topic of analysis of variance in primary and secondary destination images.

 

There is a good deal of talk about how the Chinese are now propping up tourist numbers in Patong.

 

However, I would like to see the stats on RETURN visits by Chinese.

 

In the past many visitors from Germany, Scandi, Australia, UK and other such countries revisited regularly each year, and in some cases for decades. 

 

There are lots of Chinese arriving, but how many of them are going to come back a second time?   Sooner or later this relatively new source of visitors will run dry.

[NamKangMan]

16 hours ago, madmax2 said:

Plenty of people here have bought property throughout the years and not overpaid for it 

Even in the last few years we and others like us have bought property at a price that we would not lose money on it if we ever decided to sell it, we will make reasonable capitol gains on it without over pricing the property

 some people who bought 10 or more years ago are sitting on a nest egg and cannot possibly lose money even if they sell at a discount price, but why should they if happy living here

Property goes thru booms and busts, and in my opinion the balloon is about to bust t this will not effect the majority of people who new what they were doing and did not believe what agents told them when trying to sell overpriced property here   

 

Interesting post MM2.

 

"we would not lose money on it if we ever decided to sell it" - but could you sell it, should you want to or need to? 

 

They are just no buyers around, and thousands, yes, thousands of properties, that have been on the market for years, would be competing against your property for a buyer, and they are still building more.  Why would yours be sold in a timely fashion, regardless of whether you made some money on the sale or not?

 

"and in my opinion the balloon is about to bust but this will not effect the majority of people who knew what they were doing" - I agree the property bubble here will soon bust.  I disagree that the bust will not effect the majority of people, even the ones that did not pay an over inflated price. 

 

Once again, when a housing market collapses, it's very difficult to sell, and the price an individual asks for the property must reduce considerably to attract a buyer.  A bust effects the price of all properties for sale, not just select properties.

 

I know a lot of expats are happy living in their own home here, with no intention of selling.  This is fine, but I did touch on what, exactly, do they think they will be leaving their spouses upon their demise, particularly those expats that believe their house will be their spouse's "pension." 

 

Once the expat has passed on, someone, at some stage, will look to sell the property, and I suggest not only will it take a long time to sell, attracting fees and taxes along the way, but the sale price will be significantly reduced than what many expats currently believe their property is worth, and this is something that is relevant to those who paid a fair market price and for those who paid an over inflated price.

[NamKangMan]

16 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

But how many of those 'business owners' actually own the land their property stands on. I would suggest that anyone 'owning' their land will be just fine. Those on a 3 year lease will not be so fine. Now I well  know that we Farangs cannot own any land and it's a struggle to keep in control of any assets..

 

Now the upfront price of buying the land/property is beyond the reach of most small business owners thus most have to lease ... disaster in waiting ...

 

I have always said it's the greedy Thai landlords that are making Phuket uncompetitive in the tourist market in South East Asia.

 

Their high rents are passed onto the consumer, thus, making Phuket an expensive holiday when compared to their competition, and the most expensive place in South East Asia, Singapore aside. 

 

We all knew they would push the tourist dollar to breaking point, and we are now seeing the results of this. 

 

They justified this by saying Phuket is targeting high end tourists, all the while, filling the void with high numbers of cheap Chinese package holiday tourists.  

 

"disaster in waiting" - I don't think the wait will be that long. 

[Bulldozer Dawn]

I was looking at some more bare land yesterday.  As I have mentioned earlier on there is a somewhat of a flood coming on the market at the moment from Thai Mom and Pop owners.  I was speaking to one older Thai guy yesterday that has four parcels for sale.  He said he is trying to sell because he is concerned that the baht will crash soon (wants to buy gold) and that the government, now that it has introduced the new land tax, will seek to increase it every few years.

 

In my investor news live stream this morning there is a note that property owners will have to pay for the appraisals required to commence the new land tax payments.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Bulldozer Dawn

[Bulldozer Dawn]

The other observation that I would make, is that mob mentality here in Thailand is much more pronounced than in western countries.  Thus, I would assume, if the current flood of Thais selling land does turn into a rush for the exit...the change will happen very quickly, and it is going to be a blood bath.  

Edited May 25, 2017 by Bulldozer Dawn

[chrisandsu]

25 minutes ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

I was looking at some more bare land yesterday.  As I have mentioned earlier on there is a somewhat of a flood coming on the market at the moment from Thai Mom and Pop owners.  I was speaking to one older Thai guy yesterday that has four parcels for sale.  He said he is trying to sell because he is concerned that the baht will crash soon (wants to buy gold) and that the government, now that it has introduced the new land tax, will seek to increase it every few years.

 

In my investor news live stream this morning there is a note that property owners will have to pay for the appraisals required to commence the new land tax payments.

Surely the baht crashing would help him sell ? Not unless the older thai guy is planning on sending money to his farang gfs sick cow ? ? Honestly though I have pulled all saleable assets out of thailand , I just bought land inn my home country . Land I can own ...

[phuketjock]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"How my business is or is not doing is just that, my business," - fair play.

 

Can you post anything to show the sectors of property, retail, or hospitality are doing well on Phuket?

You really do need to try and take in what you are reading.

From my previous post which I assume you did read, but not very well it seems.

 "and it's highly unlikely that I would conform to any request by the likes of yourself."

Go lick your wounds some more and hopefully it will sink in.      

[phuketjock]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Interesting post MM2.

 

"we would not lose money on it if we ever decided to sell it" - but could you sell it, should you want to or need to? 

 

They are just no buyers around, and thousands, yes, thousands of properties, that have been on the market for years, would be competing against your property for a buyer, and they are still building more.  Why would yours be sold in a timely fashion, regardless of whether you made some money on the sale or not?

 

"and in my opinion the balloon is about to bust but this will not effect the majority of people who knew what they were doing" - I agree the property bubble here will soon bust.  I disagree that the bust will not effect the majority of people, even the ones that did not pay an over inflated price. 

 

Once again, when a housing market collapses, it's very difficult to sell, and the price an individual asks for the property must reduce considerably to attract a buyer.  A bust effects the price of all properties for sale, not just select properties.

 

I know a lot of expats are happy living in their own home here, with no intention of selling.  This is fine, but I did touch on what, exactly, do they think they will be leaving their spouses upon their demise, particularly those expats that believe their house will be their spouse's "pension." 

 

Once the expat has passed on, someone, at some stage, will look to sell the property, and I suggest not only will it take a long time to sell, attracting fees and taxes along the way, but the sale price will be significantly reduced than what many expats currently believe their property is worth, and this is something that is relevant to those who paid a fair market price and for those who paid an over inflated price.

Please post a list of at least three thousand properties that have been on sale for years and

the number of years that they have been on sale for. Or of course a link to same. In PATONG 

of course, as that's what the thread is all about.

What the heck I will make it easy for you just two thousand will be enough.    

Edited May 25, 2017 by phuketjock
addition

[steelepulse]

I'll just interject here about the "thousands of listings on property websites".  Fact of the matter is most sites never update anything sold, rented or taken off the market.  

 

 

[xylophone]

55 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

What the heck I will make it easy for you just two thousand will be enough

Wouldn't be too smug about your challenge, although I think there was a certain amount of hyperbole in the ops numbers.........but look at the number of apts/condos thrown up here in the last few years: The Art, The Lofts, The Deck, The Charm, Phuket Villas, The Emerald, Bayshore Ocean view, The Scene, Unity and others whose names escape me.

 

Then add in the houses which have been for sale for an age and you have  a huge resale market and a glut of sellers. Not taking sides but resale property prices here are very depressed........as was my friend when he only got 1.55m baht for his 62 sq m 1 bed apt, which he'd been trying to sell for 2 yrs!!!

 

And the house I sold for 5.25 m 6 yrs ago I could have bought back at 60% of that recently............the sad fact is that there is a property glut, glut of sellers and few buyers and real estate agents will tell you that on the quiet (I know a few).

 

So with bars, restaurants and small businesses closing like never before and spend down (and this direct from the owners and managers) and businesses suffering, all of which is plain to see, what is there left to debate........accept the obvious, it's on your doorstep, unless you don't go out much!

[Old Croc]

When I first came here I rented a villa in Rawai, renovated and with a swimming pool.

A couple of years later I recognised the same place up for rent on a large, well known agency site. The ad pre-dated the renovations, which included several extra rooms , repainting and the new pool. It must have been on their website for years, complete with outdated pictures and price. I've never contemplated using that agency and have advised others to steer clear.

 

More recently I found a neighbor's house prominently displayed on another company site, with an extensive pictorial, and made the mistake of asking his wife if they were moving. She was very taken aback. I took a closer look at the pics and realised they were taken at least 6 years earlier.

As stated, they do not remove old advertisements here. Counting what's displayed on these sites to gain an insight into the market is a fools errand.

[phuketjock]

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Wouldn't be too smug about your challenge, although I think there was a certain amount of hyperbole in the ops numbers.........but look at the number of apts/condos thrown up here in the last few years: The Art, The Lofts, The Deck, The Charm, Phuket Villas, The Emerald, Bayshore Ocean view, The Scene, Unity and others whose names escape me.

 

Then add in the houses which have been for sale for an age and you have  a huge resale market and a glut of sellers. Not taking sides but resale property prices here are very depressed........as was my friend when he only got 1.55m baht for his 62 sq m 1 bed apt, which he'd been trying to sell for 2 yrs!!!

 

And the house I sold for 5.25 m 6 yrs ago I could have bought back at 60% of that recently............the sad fact is that there is a property glut, glut of sellers and few buyers and real estate agents will tell you that on the quiet (I know a few).

 

So with bars, restaurants and small businesses closing like never before and spend down (and this direct from the owners and managers) and businesses suffering, all of which is plain to see, what is there left to debate........accept the obvious, it's on your doorstep, unless you don't go out much!

That will explain why the land office is so busy then nothing changing hands???

[Flustered]

3 hours ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

Here is a new line of debate if anyone is interested.

 

I should be able to contribute something to the discussion...I am a published author on the topic of analysis of variance in primary and secondary destination images.

 

Is that Sir Humphrey "speak" for different holiday location reviews?

 

Sorry, absolutely no offense intended....555

[Old Croc]

It means he contributes to TripAdvisor.

[Peterw42]

19 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

When I first came here I rented a villa in Rawai, renovated and with a swimming pool.

A couple of years later I recognised the same place up for rent on a large, well known agency site. The ad pre-dated the renovations, which included several extra rooms , repainting and the new pool. It must have been on their website for years, complete with outdated pictures and price. I've never contemplated using that agency and have advised others to steer clear.

 

More recently I found a neighbor's house prominently displayed on another company site, with an extensive pictorial, and made the mistake of asking his wife if they were moving. She was very taken aback. I took a closer look at the pics and realised they were taken at least 6 years earlier.

As stated, they do not remove old advertisements here. Counting what's displayed on these sites to gain an insight into the market is a fools errand.

Yes, you are 100% right, lots of properties are listed on multiple sites and they sold years ago.

A lot of it comes from the ridiculous multi layer commission sharing. An agent has a listing and if you can bring a buyer to the agent then you get a cut of the commission, this leads to people creating websites and listing properties that belong to other agents, then people start listing your properties on their website etc etc. The chain can be 3-4 agents and sub-agents between the buyer and the actual seller.

Additionally, each agent often adds to the price, leading to some of the overpricing. So you can end up with multiple listings for the same property at several different prices.

[phuketjock]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, you are 100% right, lots of properties are listed on multiple sites and they sold years ago.

A lot of it comes from the ridiculous multi layer commission sharing. An agent has a listing and if you can bring a buyer to the agent then you get a cut of the commission, this leads to people creating websites and listing properties that belong to other agents, then people start listing your properties on their website etc etc. The chain can be 3-4 agents and sub-agents between the buyer and the actual seller.

Additionally, each agent often adds to the price, leading to some of the overpricing. So you can end up with multiple listings for the same property at several different prices.

Could this possibly be where some of the doom and gloomers on this thread are finding their

grossly exaggerated figures from??? 

[Bulldozer Dawn]

42 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

That will explain why the land office is so busy then nothing changing hands???

Of course, if you had any real experience in Thailand you would now that just because a Government office is looking busy, does not mean that any work is getting done.  Efficiency is always displaced in favor creating conditions that help to elicit tea money.