Thailand's transgender people aren’t just 'Ladyboys' anymore

[webfact]

STILL STIGMATIZED
Thailand's Transgender People Aren’t Just 'Ladyboys' Anymore
Jay Michaelson

Thailand’s new constitution may protect transgender people from discrimination—but not in the way that you think.

BANGKOK: -- Thailand made headlines last month for proposing that its new constitution should prohibit discrimination on the basis of gender identity and gender expression. That would put the Southeast Asian nation ahead of 32 U.S. states and all but a few countries.

What does this mean? And why Thailand? The answers to these questions are easily misunderstood, because sexual orientation and gender identity (SOGI in international-policy-speak) mean different things in different cultural contexts. In this case, third-gender Thai people are both recognized and stigmatized. Traditional attitudes are both problem and solution.

First, this is a significant step forward. “This is a historic move in Thailand and a breakthrough for the Thai transgender community and Thai activists,” said Joe Wong of the Asia Pacific Transgender Network (APTN), a regional organization based in Bangkok.

And yet the widely-reported notion that Thailand is explicitly protecting “third gender” people is not quite accurate, according to activists.

Ajarn Ronnapoom, President of the Transgender Alliance (ThaiTGA), told The Daily Beast that while the 2007 constitution prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex, the new proposal would include sex and gender (phet) generally—not “third gender” specifically.

Full story: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/08/the-best-place-to-be-trans-is-a-dictatorship.html

-- THE DAILY BEAST 2015-02-09

[A1Str8]

They are not ladyboys. They are men.

[Crazy chef 1]

and in many(not all) cases thieves...

[NongKhaiKid]

Does this mean the Pattaya newspapers etc will now carry headlines such as ' Indians robbed by Third Gender People on Beach Rd ' ?

[jalansanitwong]

The swelling numbers of katoeys is a disaster.. I wouldnt be surprised if theyve contributed to the decline in western tourist numbers.

Theyre thieving boys with tits. Nothing to do with ladies. Bar girls havent got much to do with ladies either.

Edited February 9, 2015 by jalansanitwong

[stopthegreed]

They are not ladyboys. They are men.

Correct, They are MEN, who have had their bodies chopped to bits to look like women. And its all in the chase for Money.

They wait like predators, not surfacing until after midnight to take advantage of the drunken Farangs.

[bangkokheat]

looks like the tat are chasing transgender tourists

[soalbundy]

They are not ladyboys. They are men.

and very confused men at that

[Mencken]

Whatever, its their country.

Barring gay men from enteting the country and especially working with children +2.

Don't they have enough toilets and parks to pick up strangers and enough glory holes to visit at home? Why come here to exploit young men half and one third their age?

I needva shower...ugh.

[Greer]

The very tiny percentage of katoeys that go into the sex industry and then commit crimes, is not an accurate depiction of the majority at all - it's just the ones that the Pattaya (or other areas) bar-attending members of TV meet when they are too drunk to know the difference till it's too late (is all the loud bleating due to a sore bum?)... Haha!

Thailand has a very large population of the transgender group, and that also includes woman who wish to be male (aka "toms").

I sometimes wonder if a transgender male who wishes to be female, is actually not actually "gay" as such. Think about it... Mentally these people consider themselves already to be female, although inconveniently enough, they are trapped in a male body - so a desire for male company would in terms of their mental status, be perfectly normal - ignoring the hardware aspects, so to speak.

As far as the gay group is concerned, I know a number of gay people, both male and female, and I have no issue at all with them - because it really makes no difference to me what they do in bed, or who their other friends are...and why should it?

[englishoak]

I confess ive never known a country with so many.... well cant call it anything but masses of sexually confused people i guess.

Each to their own, live and let live n all that but boy theres a huge proportion in Thailand compared to anywhere else ive lived or been, open or otherwise.

Have no problem with there being a 3rd gender simply because it really does seem sometimes its 1 in 3 anyway. In fact it wouldnt surprise me if there were more transsexuals than gay in Thailand, least thats how it seems on the surface.

Id love to know the scientific reason for this. ( if there is one )

[manarak]

In Thailand, the most common transgender-like category is the kathoey, who are individuals born biologically male, but who may take on female gender identity (i.e. conceive of themselves as female), gender expression (i.e., express/present themselves as female), or sexual characteristics (i.e. undergo gender confirmation/sexual reassignment surgery). The colloquial English translation of kathoey is “ladyboy.”

Again a confused Western journalist.

No, "Kathoey" is not a word reserved for biological males who conceive of themselves as females. There is a full range of gender identites, kathoey covers everything from effeminate gay, to what people call "shemales" (i.e. kathoeys happy with their in-between status and their appendage) until "transgenders", i.e. people who conceive of themselves as females...

Why can't this myth of "female trapped in a male body" no be done away with ? It's true only for a minority.

[Fullstop]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

They are not ladyboys. They are men.

So..What's a ladyboy then?

[spermwhale]

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I confess ive never known a country with so many.... well cant call it anything but masses of sexually confused people i guess.

Each to their own, live and let live n all that but boy theres a huge proportion in Thailand compared to anywhere else ive lived or been, open or otherwise.

Have no problem with there being a 3rd gender simply because it really does seem sometimes its 1 in 3 anyway. In fact it wouldnt surprise me if there were more transsexuals than gay in Thailand, least thats how it seems on the surface.

Id love to know the scientific reason for this. ( if there is one )

Yes I agree. I too have wondered why there are so many. And even more confusing to me is that so many gays think that they have to dress like women. In all my time living in California I met and worked with plenty of gay men and women, but I only met one transgender.

I think in Thialand, there is great pressure to dress and act like a lady if a boy is acting "girlish." I've talked to teacher friends of mine that say even effeminate boys at the ripe old age of six are already being called "she" by their class mates.

They are almost pressured or pushed into it and convinced that this is the way they should be since they are gay. Not to mention Thai TV which seems to require that every show have at least one cross-dresser.

I don't get it.

Still the bottom line for me is I don't care. The quality of the person is what matters and their heart.

Edited February 9, 2015 by spermwhale

[bluebluewater]

It's kinda tit for tat on this thread . . .

Calling Dr. Bendover! Calling Dr. Bendover!

[AlQaholic]

I have nothing against Third gender people. Let them be happy the way they are as long as they do not bother me or try in any way to pretend to be something they are not towards me.

That being said, why are all Lotus cash registers populated almost exclusively with these third gender people and why are they all fat and ugly? anyone has an answer to that? I can only assume the managers of all lotus stores are transgender too.

Edited February 9, 2015 by AlQaholic

[DM07]

Many of you seem to be quiet butt -hurt about the ladyboy- issue!

(Yes, the butt- hurt pun was intended!)

Also many of you seem to have problems with bar- girls.

I wonder, where that comes from?

[binjalin]

Live and let live BUT it is a FACT that many (not all) ladyboys, or whatever you want to call them, are aggressive and nasty. I hate walking past a group of them and have seen them go 'bazzerk' on many occasions and they can be really spiteful.

I avoid them at all costs for these reasons not because I am biased against them. BTW Tom's can be just the same - jealous and spiteful nutcases. They can call them what they want but they are chicks with d***s at the end of the day and they can't change their chromosomes even if they get the chop.

[h90]

They are not ladyboys. They are men.

And if you would agree that it is a gender change than they would be women but not a 3rd gender.

But of course they are genetically men.

[trogers]

What does a third gender looks like when turned 40 and older?

[binjalin]

What does a third gender looks like when turned 40 and older?

a gender bender?

[h90]

I have nothing against Third gender people. Let them be happy the way they are as long as they do not bother me or try in any way to pretend to be something they are not towards me.

That being said, why are all Lotus cash registers populated almost exclusively with these third gender people and why are they all fat and ugly? anyone has an answer to that? I can only assume the managers of all lotus stores are transgender too.

Well, they can pretend what they want towards me, as long as they don't cause any troubles.

Fat and ugly, I was in a BigC Extra yesterday....not downtown a bit outside and I must tell most people there were fat and ugly....men, women, ladyboys, toms and the few farangs. I felt like back home in Farangland. Surely McDonalds, KFC and Coke is changing the visual appearance of the Thais the same way as it did the Americans....

[h90]

What does a third gender looks like when turned 40 and older?

Look the 40+ American, German, Australian, Thais (first, second, third or fourth gender).......it mostly looks terrible unless they are taking care themself. I can't see any differences. Just a few have a lucky genetic, pumping in Estrogen into male system surely makes you easily fat.

[ratcatcher]

What does a third gender looks like when turned 40 and older?

Here's starter.

[car720]

The swelling numbers of katoeys is a disaster.. I wouldnt be surprised if theyve contributed to the decline in western tourist numbers.

Theyre thieving boys with tits. Nothing to do with ladies. Bar girls havent got much to do with ladies either.

So what woman anywhere has?

[car720]

I have nothing against Third gender people. Let them be happy the way they are as long as they do not bother me or try in any way to pretend to be something they are not towards me.

That being said, why are all Lotus cash registers populated almost exclusively with these third gender people and why are they all fat and ugly? anyone has an answer to that? I can only assume the managers of all lotus stores are transgender too.

Well, they can pretend what they want towards me, as long as they don't cause any troubles.

Fat and ugly, I was in a BigC Extra yesterday....not downtown a bit outside and I must tell most people there were fat and ugly....men, women, ladyboys, toms and the few farangs. I felt like back home in Farangland. Surely McDonalds, KFC and Coke is changing the visual appearance of the Thais the same way as it did the Americans....

Does anyone else notice that we never really hear much on TVF about Toms and Dees?

[Bluespunk]

Whatever, its their country.

Barring gay men from enteting the country and especially working with children +2.

Don't they have enough toilets and parks to pick up strangers and enough glory holes to visit at home? Why come here to exploit young men half and one third their age?

I needva shower...ugh.

So do I after reading your post.

[car720]

What does a third gender looks like when turned 40 and older?

Look the 40+ American, German, Australian, Thais (first, second, third or fourth gender).......it mostly looks terrible unless they are taking care themself. I can't see any differences. Just a few have a lucky genetic, pumping in Estrogen into male system surely makes you easily fat.

Ok, An interesting one for a change.

This runs to an hypothesis that I have about aging in men and middle age spread as well.

So you believe that the over use of Estrogen in these cases leads to fat in later life?

[metisdead]

Posts containing inappropriate language have been removed as well as the replies.

[samsensam]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

They are not ladyboys. They are men.

Correct, They are MEN, who have had their bodies chopped to bits to look like women. And its all in the chase for Money.

They wait like predators, not surfacing until after midnight to take advantage of the drunken Farangs.

Glad to see just how close-minded and ignorant many of the posters on this site are. I've worked in many offices in Thailand and have seen transgenders working in important, professional positions. Maybe because you whoremongers only see the ones working in the night life and that's the extent of your knowledge, you wouldn't know that the majority of transgenders are not in the sex trade. They are working people like you and me.

I once met with the minister of commerce and he even had a transgender assistant. My and my childrens' dentist is transgender .. yes a dentist.

really sickens me to read this tripe.

I can't hit like enough times.

absolutely. the view of trangender seems to reflect a person's lifestyle. if you hang around the gogo/bar/prostitute scene then TGs are viewed in a negative way or simply as thieves.

i have a number of TG friends. all are intelligent, well educated and hard working members of society. some often travel abroad on business and to promote LGBTG rights at conferences and other events.