Yingluck warned over rice scheme: PM

[Baerboxer]

she's just a total lier and crook and front for Taksin his crew and resort robbing Thialnd blind. I really hope she and many rot for a long time or for ever in Jail

All total scumbags

and for those who posted I'm full of hate yes i hate what Taksin she and rest have done ansi hate way poor are taken in totally by them

Just because she looks good does not mean she's not as evil as Pol pot Mugabwie Saddam or any of them

Wake up Taksin forang worshipers and admit you are and were totally misguided pathetic naive useful idiots as Stalin said

What on earth are you ranting about. Thaksin akin to Stalin? You are demeaning the people who suffered at the Stalin's hands.

Incredible view of the world you have.

What on earth are you on? The poster makes reference to a quote by Stalin about idiots being useful. It's you who seeks to suggest otherwise.

[Robby nz]

Other than the losses already mentioned there are adverse implications of the scheme that haven't even been mentioned.

For those who are interested there is some serious reading in reports by research institutes such as the TDRI report by Dr Nipon Poapongsakorn :

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/tdri-says-yinglucks-rice-pledging-scheme-causes-almost-trillion-baht-loss

One of his interesting conclusions is :

He identified higher cost of rice planting, higher use of irrigation water than the water management plan of the Royal Irrigation Department that will become a water shortage problem for this year.

So it would seem that the scheme could well be a contributor to the lack of irrigation water the farmers have now.

There is the 14 page freedom barometer report :

http://freedombarometer.org/assets/pdfs/Freedom-Barometer-Special-Report-Thailands-Agrarian-Policy.pdf

Then there is another from the TDRI which I cant link to but you can find by searching for : TDRI details apparent costs od rice pledging programme, including Bt 111 billion in corruption.

TDRI details apparent costs of rice pledging programme, including Bt111 billion in corruption

Edited February 14, 2015 by Robby nz

[Baerboxer]

you really (REALLY) believe that 700 billion figure? wow... just WOW... just shows the junta brainwashing machine is :

Working as Intended

You just have to check the revolving (not so revolving) fund and what was put into it and the debt there.

But indeed the general has to get in line with those who warned her. Big international institutions like the world bank, IMF, and Moodies did so too. Everyone warned her everyone with some brains. Then when the accounting came out that there were losses the PTP wanted to sue the person coming out with this data and bullied her.

No everything was alright.. nothing to see here. The remark about the 2 trillion bath off books loan is correct. This was needed to make this mess go away.

I hope she will sit in jail for a long time for all the grief she caused and the deaths to the farmers too. Not to mention the losses.

In a civilized country she would have budgeted for the program and then all was alright. However she never included enough money in the budget. This was because there was a max deficit already and then the other vote buying schemes could not go through. So it is a loss.. had she budgeted for it it would not have been a loss it would have been in budget.

Minor correction.

The "However she never included enough money in the budget. " should be "she never put any reservation for possible RPPS losses in the National Budget"

And why should she? It was a self financing scheme, and might even make a profit. She has said many times, including when reading a prepared statement at her impeachment, that there were no problems in the scheme, no corruption, everything was spot on. All she has to do is produce all the accounts, inventory records, G2G deal contracts, and cash flow statements to support her assertions. Not just the usual parade of fools who are happy to lie under oath, but real hard facts that can be audited.

When she does this at her trial we're all going to have egg on our faces!

[howzat]

Ten out of ten to the original poster knowing the difference between principal and principle and getting the spelling correct. Amazing Thailand!

Anything else in his post worthy of mentioning?

[Nuddy]

I need my two bobs worth as well as all the others above.

The more projects you have the more 30%s that are out there.

I suppose that Yingluck and her mob set a record for that and the elite envied their loss.

However it seems the General is setting new levels of Govt projects.

I love the new projects and look forward to the fast trains

Regards

[Thai at Heart]

Of course she and her brother knew there were serious problems with the price pledging scheme but Thaksin (who was behind this like he was behind everything Yingluck did) didn't care. First his push for amnesty was shot down, then his shady, corrupt rice scheme. Follow the money and you will see that this corruption travels from the top to the bottom. Billions of baht has been skimmed off all up and down the program.

There was not any provable leakage of billions of baht. There was a loss because they paid a subsidised price. She isn't accused of corruption, she is accused of negligence.

They have one deal of not supplying to Iran for which someone is in jail, and faked b to b deals. The bulk of the loss is in structural loss not corruption

Structural losses in a self-financing scheme? Sounds like you accuse Ms. Yingluck of deceiving and defrauding the Nation of 700 billion Baht.

His above claim was that 700 bn was stolen through corruption. 99% of the 700bn is still sitting going mouldy in the warehouse.

The 700bn wasnt stolen, it was in vast majority lost on paper so far in the system. It has gone into the economy.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Thai at Heart

[rubl]

Of course she and her brother knew there were serious problems with the price pledging scheme but Thaksin (who was behind this like he was behind everything Yingluck did) didn't care. First his push for amnesty was shot down, then his shady, corrupt rice scheme. Follow the money and you will see that this corruption travels from the top to the bottom. Billions of baht has been skimmed off all up and down the program.

There was not any provable leakage of billions of baht. There was a loss because they paid a subsidised price. She isn't accused of corruption, she is accused of negligence.

They have one deal of not supplying to Iran for which someone is in jail, and faked b to b deals. The bulk of the loss is in structural loss not corruption

Structural losses in a self-financing scheme? Sounds like you accuse Ms. Yingluck of deceiving and defrauding the Nation of 700 billion Baht.

His above claim was that 700 bn was stolen through corruption. 99% of the 700bn is still sitting going mouldy in the warehouse.

The 700bn wasnt stolen, it was in vast majority lost on paper so far in the system. It has gone into the economy.

For one the other poster mentioned billions of Baht being stolen. That's not the same as 700 billion Baht.

Furthermore there's only 17 million tonnes of rice remaining in stock out of probably 38 million tonnes (three years RPPS, 30% loss from paddy to rice). So there is loss on paper but most seems to have been realised as the remaining lot of of poor quality.

BTW 'gone in the economy'? Next you'll tell me it will trickle down, I guess ?

[samii]

Coup... A regular complete shutdown of the pie making factory to upgrade equipment and ensure more pies can be produced while making changes to the distribution network.

Not complete shutdown ... They make now "Happy Pies", which are meant to increase happiness

[Robby nz]

As has been said he is going to have to get in line to register his warning for there are many before him, such as :

The Senate : 2012-10-17
Rice Scandal: Thai Senators Want Court To Examine Rice Deals, http://www.thaivisa....ine-rice-deals/

And again : 2012-10-23
Senate Panel Slams Rice-Pledging Failings, Calls For Urgent Review, http://www.thaivisa....-urgent-review/

Abhisit 2012-10-17
End Distortion Of Rice Trade: Abhisit Tells Govt, http://www.thaivisa....sit-tells-govt/

Finance officials : 2012-10-22
Finance Officials Troubled By Massive Farm Scheme Debts Call For Changes: Thailand, http://www.thaivisa....anges-thailand/

Rice Exporters association : 2012-10-24
Thai Rice Mountain Casts Shadow Over World Market, http://www.thaivisa....r-world-market/

And, 2012-11-12
Rice Pledging Scheme Vehemently Criticised Again, http://www.thaivisa....iticised-again/

The USA : 2012-10-19
Thailand Will Dump Rice: U S Group

http://www.thaivisa....rice-u-s-group/

And again : 2012-11-09
The United States will challenge Thailand over its rice subsidies at a World Trade Organization http://www.reuters.c...umerGoodsSector

The UK didn't like what was going on either :
2012-11-26
Pledging Policy Sees U K Importers Shun Thai Rice, http://www.thaivisa....shun-thai-rice/

Those are only some of the 2012 ones there are many others but Yingluck and PT refused to heed all warnings ;

2012-11-14
Govt will not heed warnings on rice subsidy scheme, http://www.thaivisa....subsidy-scheme/

Thaksin even defended the scheme....And, well he thinks PT acts:

2012-09-25

Thaksin Defends Controversial Rice-Pledging Programme, http://www.thaivisa....ging-programme/

2013 saw many more warnings but those were also ignored of dismissed.

[rubl]

Coup... A regular complete shutdown of the pie making factory to upgrade equipment and ensure more pies can be produced while making changes to the distribution network.

Not complete shutdown ... They make now "Happy Pies", which are meant to increase happiness

Whereas Ms. Yingluck of the topic was into rice cakes and porkies

[tbthailand]

she's just a total lier and crook and front for Taksin his crew and resort robbing Thialnd blind. I really hope she and many rot for a long time or for ever in Jail

All total scumbags

and for those who posted I'm full of hate yes i hate what Taksin she and rest have done ansi hate way poor are taken in totally by them

Just because she looks good does not mean she's not as evil as Pol pot Mugabwie Saddam or any of them

Wake up Taksin forang worshipers and admit you are and were totally misguided pathetic naive useful idiots as Stalin said

What on earth are you ranting about. Thaksin akin to Stalin? You are demeaning the people who suffered at the Stalin's hands.

Incredible view of the world you have.

And yet the opposition to Thaksin are regularly labelled as "Fascists" by equally ignorant Thaksin partisans. Face it folks on both sides, no comparisons with those monsters Hitler and Stalin are appropriate here. Get real!

fascism |ˈfaSHˌizəm| (also Fascism)noun

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.• (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

so in other words, ...

if the shoe fits, ....

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Face it folks on both sides, no comparisons with those monsters Hitler and Stalin are appropriate here. .....

Yet!

[ldiablo]

"As army chief he felt obligated to support every government in implementing it's policies". What a contradiction that is. Is that how you support the government,with a coup.

[rubl]

"As army chief he felt obligated to support every government in implementing it's policies". What a contradiction that is. Is that how you support the government,with a coup.

Which government? The remnant unclear status not-caretaking bunch of hand picked Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acting government?

I think Gen. Prayut was kind to get Suthep c.s. so the 'government' could talk with him as they so frequently had said to want to if only they could find him.

[Alwyn]

In what World does an army General see fit to advise a PM on anything other than military affairs? She should have sacked him then and there and Thailand would still be a great place to live

[Skywalker69]

Imagine a PM who gets her government to enact a self-financing scheme which loses 700 billion Baht in barely two-and-a-half year. Of course those who prosecute her must be of the same cloth. Next we'll hear details on those prosecuting just being annoyed not to have got a share.

In the mean time Ms. yingluck will get a chance to explain, give all answers she didn't want to give yet, surprise us with her innocence. That is assuming she'll remain in the country and assuming she has any answers. Very unfortunate that she want on record so many times stating so many beautiful things which now seem closer to imagination or even lies.

Hard time for Yingluck supporters. Any dirty trick is being dusted off to be used it would seem.

you really (REALLY) believe that 700 billion figure? wow... just WOW... just shows the junta brainwashing machine is :

Working as Intended

Still counting, it would seem it will be a tad higher than 700,000,000,000.00 Baht

Let's not forget the interest on the debt to pay the banks to pay the farmers because the Yingluck Thaksin government didn't set enough money aside. Let's also not forget that now, Bt. 700 billion can't be spent on all kinds of good things like education, infrastructure, etc. because it has gone into the pockets of a few large landowners, rice mill owners, warehouse owners, and a few lucky farmers, etc. The poorest rice farmers didn't qualify for the program. The damage from this theft will hurt Thailand for generations. Thaksin got the money and Yingluck got left holding the bag empty rice sack. Do you think for one minute the Narcissist cares?

Also let´s not forget the costs for storage the rice from the sceme.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Skywalker69

[rubl]

In what World does an army General see fit to advise a PM on anything other than military affairs? She should have sacked him then and there and Thailand would still be a great place to live

In 2012 the MoD didn't call Gen. Prayut on this and in the general didn't want to become MoD so Ms. Yingluck took the chair. It was commented that time that she had such good relation with him.

[ldiablo]

At the end of the day rubl it was still a democratically elected government unlike what Thailand has in place today.

[Robby nz]

At the end of the day rubl it was still a democratically elected government unlike what Thailand has in place today.

No it was not.

The democratically elected Govt was dissolved and what was left was 26 caretaker cabinet ministers all of whom had been appointed by a convicted criminal on the run.

[brucec64]

What on earth are you ranting about. Thaksin akin to Stalin? You are demeaning the people who suffered at the Stalin's hands.

Incredible view of the world you have.

And yet the opposition to Thaksin are regularly labelled as "Fascists" by equally ignorant Thaksin partisans. Face it folks on both sides, no comparisons with those monsters Hitler and Stalin are appropriate here. Get real!

fascism |ˈfaSHˌizəm| (also Fascism)noun

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.• (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

so in other words, ...

if the shoe fits, ....

I count at least 11 points that totally fit, and 3 possibles...

14 POINTS OF FASCISM

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

[brucec64]

At the end of the day rubl it was still a democratically elected government unlike what Thailand has in place today.

No it was not.

The democratically elected Govt was dissolved and what was left was 26 caretaker cabinet ministers all of whom had been appointed by a convicted criminal on the run.

You obviously have no knowledge of the democratic process, or are just being deliberately obstinate, or you would not make a comment like this.

In any democratic process, there has to be a mechanism for transitioning from one government to the next during an election. The caretaker government at the time was fully within the scope of the democratic process in place at the time, and would have been soon followed by the next elected government if not for the illegal election blocking by the PDRC.

Now, there is no democratic process in place, and the one that will soon be in place will be a highly bastardized versus of democracy.

[trogers]

In what World does an army General see fit to advise a PM on anything other than military affairs? She should have sacked him then and there and Thailand would still be a great place to live

And in what world does a government steal from the country and raise a hidden army with war weapons to kill civilians, including infants?

[scorecard]

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His above claim was that 700 bn was stolen through corruption. 99% of the 700bn is still sitting going mouldy in the warehouse.

The 700bn wasnt stolen, it was in vast majority lost on paper so far in the system. It has gone into the economy.

How's that, I and I guess thousands of others Thai and non-Thai. would love to hear the details.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

At the end of the day rubl it was still a democratically elected government unlike what Thailand has in place today.

No it was not.

The democratically elected Govt was dissolved and what was left was 26 caretaker cabinet ministers all of whom had been appointed by a convicted criminal on the run.

You obviously have no knowledge of the democratic process, or are just being deliberately obstinate, or you would not make a comment like this.

In any democratic process, there has to be a mechanism for transitioning from one government to the next during an election. The caretaker government at the time was fully within the scope of the democratic process in place at the time, and would have been soon followed by the next elected government if not for the illegal election blocking by the PDRC.

Now, there is no democratic process in place, and the one that will soon be in place will be a highly bastardized versus of democracy.

And how does your attempt at diverting the discussion fit to the disussion and the points of the other posters?

It doesn't.

Another graduate of the robert spin and twist class.

Edited February 14, 2015 by scorecard

[Alwyn]

In what World does an army General see fit to advise a PM on anything other than military affairs? She should have sacked him then and there and Thailand would still be a great place to live

In 2012 the MoD didn't call Gen. Prayut on this and in the general didn't want to become MoD so Ms. Yingluck took the chair. It was commented that time that she had such good relation with him.

Let me re-phrase the question then. In what country does a general or a Minister of Defence see fit to advise their PM on anything else other than military matters

[Alwyn]

In what World does an army General see fit to advise a PM on anything other than military affairs? She should have sacked him then and there and Thailand would still be a great place to live

And in what world does a government steal from the country and raise a hidden army with war weapons to kill civilians, including infants?

Thailand for one and historically so, not just the previous government. But you didn't answer the question, did you? Just a b/s deflection

[Alwyn]

At the end of the day rubl it was still a democratically elected government unlike what Thailand has in place today.

No it was not.

The democratically elected Govt was dissolved and what was left was 26 caretaker cabinet ministers all of whom had been appointed by a convicted criminal on the run.

eh?

[brucec64]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

At the end of the day rubl it was still a democratically elected government unlike what Thailand has in place today.

No it was not.

The democratically elected Govt was dissolved and what was left was 26 caretaker cabinet ministers all of whom had been appointed by a convicted criminal on the run.

You obviously have no knowledge of the democratic process, or are just being deliberately obstinate, or you would not make a comment like this.

In any democratic process, there has to be a mechanism for transitioning from one government to the next during an election. The caretaker government at the time was fully within the scope of the democratic process in place at the time, and would have been soon followed by the next elected government if not for the illegal election blocking by the PDRC.

Now, there is no democratic process in place, and the one that will soon be in place will be a highly bastardized versus of democracy.

And how does your attempt at diverting the discussion fit to the disussion and the points of the other posters?

It doesn't.

Another graduate of the robert spin and twist class.

Your response is more nonsensical than the last. Please explain how my response to the previous post is faulty.

[tbthailand]

At the end of the day rubl it was still a democratically elected government unlike what Thailand has in place today.

No it was not.

The democratically elected Govt was dissolved and what was left was 26 caretaker cabinet ministers all of whom had been appointed by a convicted criminal on the run.

yes it was.

and it was constitutional.

and the next step was to hold elections.

oops... elections, that would have been a strategic blunder for the opponents of the government... quick - plan B...

[ldiablo]

So Robby nz. What you are trying to say is that the government under Yinluck who won an election in 2011 was not an elected government. I think you need to take some critical thinking courses because you certainly don't understand much.

Edited February 14, 2015 by ldiablo