'Democratic culture is being eroded'

[connda]

Switzerland has Democracy. Pretty much everything else is a sham. What's paraded around as 'democracy' is just various forms of governance, usually beneficial to a small segment of society, that tend to be autocratic and corrupt.

Be careful of what you wish for.

[Eric Loh]

Got to disagree with Khun Pornkwan when he said that normalcy has not returned due to martial law. Not just this martial law but Thailand democracy has never returned to normal with repeated coups. It seem more like Thailand has been governed more by the military than civilian. We just have glimpse of democracy peeping out of the iron curtain periodically.

[rickirs]

“CONTINUED long-term imposition of martial law will further corrode democratic culture and negatively affect the economy”

The combination of the PDRC anti-government protests and the Junta takeover have destroyed what was once one of Asia’s most vibrant economies. Thailand’s GDP growth was by far the weakest of all Asean member nations for 2014. Thus far for 2015, the Junta has continued to mismanage the economy with no intentions of implementing substantial government investment stimulus to jumpstart the economy. GDP growth for 2015 is likely to be nominal if not flat.

The cost to the Thai economy was about $15 billion USD from September 2013 through 2014* in lost GDP growth. For 2015 Thailand will likely lose another $12 billion. Sum total loss would be equivalent to about Bt800 billion.

If the Junta continues its rule into 2016, whether directly or through “proxies”, you can expect a worsening of the economy with GDP losses equal to or greater than in 2015.

With the Junta “saving” the Thai People from democracy, the economic cost will be only matched by their loss of civil liberties and rights which should otherwise be priceless. Unfortunately, the military will unlikely share in the nation’s suffering.

* “Thai Economy Loses $12 billion in 2014 – What’s Ahead for 2015?” – John Le Fevre, January 15, 2015.

[Shaunduhpostman]

The presumption that Thailand, perhaps because it has held a few elections in the past, has a democratic culture is pretty off-base, so the idea that it has been eroded is probably somewhere on the way towards ludicrous if I may be permitted to make such an ungenerous assertion.

Most who have lived here and have any perspective know very well as to why I might say such a thing, so no need to bang on, you could write a lengthy book on the state of the democratic culture in Thailand, I reckon.

I don't mean to Thai bash, but just to tell it as I see it, Thailand has many other great and wonderful aspects, as we also well know, or else we would have gone home, but a democratic culture is not one of them in anyone's estimation. I suppose pretending all is well and has been well is a good temporary survival mechanism, but I hope when things improve the writer can find strength to face the music. A statement that democracy has been eroded smacks of the shrill accusations and battle cries of the Shin propaganda machine.

That said, I agree with the article that it is very disappointing that the Junta is asking that academics ask permission to discuss things. Though it is old news. Really though, is it asking much for some quaint discussion that probably less than 500 people will ever hear and even fewer take to heart? But I can't say as I ever felt the Shins were great fans of discussion either. So much for the notion that there is a democratic culture going on, so may 100 flowers bloom in this international climate of democracy, good will, and honest hard working and thoughtfull leaders and citizens alike all heaving to around the globe to save us from the evil clutches of corporations, terrorists, overeaching national security states, theiving finacial institutions not to mention pernicious and ubiquitous technologies that would snatch our very souls away if their creators believed in or even posessed such things. Go democracy! Save us from being chem trailed into extinction, from totalitarian extraterrestrials, from earthly governments that want our very DNA mapping, save us from nano technology, from international multi-media disinformation induced delusions about any of the aforementioned! Hurrah!

[tif]

Selective amnesia - look at the headlines from a year ago.

The headlines from this time last year were mostly about one of the most corrupt politicians in Thai history marching around Bangkok to "fight corruption."

They were then (like now) often pointing to the minority of the population dictating the majority, as the PDRC thugs brought down democracy through terror.

Finally back then (as now) the biggest proponents on TV of this were pensioners living in issan, married to former sex workers. Seems little has changed.

What 'terror'? Compare and contrast with 2010 whereby rockets were launched at Sala Daeng and gas tankers set on fire. Hyperbole much? And no, I am most certainly not a 'pensioner living in Issan'.

[soalbundy]

I do agree with Sombat but i am a bit confused about '' Democratic culture'' when did that come about.

[Chris Lawrence]

Bangkok is a feudal system. It is running Thailand.

No worse then the shin dictatorship.

What has the shins got to do with my post, Rob? "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" I hope you are not one that believes in this quote?

[casualbiker]

I don't see the point of 'going on about it'. I am assuming the vast majority on TVF are ex-pats like myself so we have no dog in the hunt. And we who are from Western countries were democracy has cast it's shadow for decades or longer see democracy differently to Thai's and other Asian's.

Democracy or the lack of it means different things to different people. But when 99.999% of the population are not effected, why worry.

Its always funny to see people of the old reginme calling it democratic.. it certainly was not.. it had an armed wing of terrorist. It constantly broke the rules of true democracies. I am ok with how it is now this bunch of rules is less worse as the previous ones. These are a bit less corrupt.

You are lying. Thaksin govt. by BY FAR THE LEAST corrupt in the history of Thailand, according to Transparency International.

I believe you feel ok now, when Thais are oppressed, tortured and killed this gives lots of happiness to some farangs who want to exploit the misery and desperation of Thailand to live cheap and feel rich and powerful in a country of misery and suffering.

This is from Transparency's own FAQ " Can country/territory scores in the 2010 CPI be compared to those in past editions of the CPI?

The index is based on rankings of countries/territories calculated using a changing set of source surveys. The CPI is therefore not the appropriate tool for comparisons over time. Additionally, the number of sources and countries included has varied over time since the CPI’s inception in 1995. Certain source surveys have been added or discontinued. In an effort to improve the index over the last 15 years, TI has also made slight modifications to the methodology. As a consequence, the CPI cannot be used for accurate trend analysis"

[Baerboxer]

I don't see the point of 'going on about it'. I am assuming the vast majority on TVF are ex-pats like myself so we have no dog in the hunt. And we who are from Western countries were democracy has cast it's shadow for decades or longer see democracy differently to Thai's and other Asian's.

Democracy or the lack of it means different things to different people. But when 99.999% of the population are not effected, why worry.

Its always funny to see people of the old reginme calling it democratic.. it certainly was not.. it had an armed wing of terrorist. It constantly broke the rules of true democracies. I am ok with how it is now this bunch of rules is less worse as the previous ones. These are a bit less corrupt.

You are lying. Thaksin govt. by BY FAR THE LEAST corrupt in the history of Thailand, according to Transparency International.

I believe you feel ok now, when Thais are oppressed, tortured and killed this gives lots of happiness to some farangs who want to exploit the misery and desperation of Thailand to live cheap and feel rich and powerful in a country of misery and suffering.

Thais are oppressed, tortured and killed - sounds like how a Thaksin puppet regime behaves.

They also have a habit of lying about everything - including figures, deals, transparency and say only what suits themselves.

[Baerboxer]

Bangkok is a feudal system. It is running Thailand.

No worse then the shin dictatorship.

What has the shins got to do with my post, Rob? "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" I hope you are not one that believes in this quote?

Hope your're not one who breaks forum rules and posts in a language other than English?

[soalbundy]

Bangkok is a feudal system. It is running Thailand.

No worse then the shin dictatorship.

What has the shins got to do with my post, Rob? "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" I hope you are not one that believes in this quote?

Hope your're not one who breaks forum rules and posts in a language other than English?

Showing off his knowledge of gaelic

[ikke]

Selective amnesia - look at the headlines from a year ago.

The headlines from this time last year were mostly about one of the most corrupt politicians in Thai history marching around Bangkok to "fight corruption."

They were then (like now) often pointing to the minority of the population dictating the majority, as the PDRC thugs brought down democracy through terror.

Finally back then (as now) the biggest proponents on TV of this were pensioners living in issan, married to former sex workers. Seems little has changed.

Thaksin wasn't marching around BKK he is far to gutless to come back to the country to face the criminal charges against him.

You seem to have got yourself a little mixed up, the thugs were the ones who were shooting and firing grenades at the protesters on a nightly and sometimes daily basis.

Pity that you have to liken all posters on here to yourself, but then I suppose that's all you understand and where you get your red bias from.

To stay on topic, point is that Suthep is the root cause , he was and still is the cancer of this country , and because of him, and only because of him, the economy went fast down, and a junta with no clue about economy isn't going to change that.

His last sentence can be softer, this proponents here on TV have mostly nothing to do with economy.....

[Emster23]

Will it erode or corrode? Maybe time to hit the road.... expecting the now dictatorship to instill democratic values is like asking a hooker to teach school girls about benefits of abstinence..

[Chris Lawrence]

Showing off his knowledge of gaelic

Bangkok is a feudal system. It is running Thailand.

No worse then the shin dictatorship.

What has the shins got to do with my post, Rob? "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" I hope you are not one that believes in this quote?

'Let them eat cake'

[soalbundy]

After reading all these posts i now realize how eroded i've become.

[Robby nz]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I find the article heading humorous. I think democracy eroded along time ago and that is why the military was able to took over.

The article is hardly any kind of an analysis but more of a generalization about any situation. Sure it will affect something in the long term negatively, but it will affect other things in a positive way. Depending which business you are in. So we have to weigh the out come. I don't know what other junta have this much autonomy to the people.

The only thing that I see affected are the very people who created this mess and caused the military to take over, The politicians.

Indeed, I don't see anyone anywhere I go that is affected by martial law, but then I don't associate with politicians or trouble makers.

The OP says there are 20 people detained......Out of 65 million.

While the other 64.9999, whatever million go about their normal business.

20 , 200, 2000, Its still people being detained without trial for what they believe in.

Are you sure that the 20 who are still detained are only there because of what they believe in ?

I ask this because I don't know who they are or why they are still there.

What I do know is that there are many who have been called in and talked to than sent on their way back home, these include some, who it could be said that because of their past actions, may have evil intent.

Therefor it would seem likely that those detained may well be there because of what they have done rather than just what they believe in.

[aussieinthailand]

I find the article heading humorous. I think democracy eroded along time ago and that is why the military was able to took over.

The article is hardly any kind of an analysis but more of a generalization about any situation. Sure it will affect something in the long term negatively, but it will affect other things in a positive way. Depending which business you are in. So we have to weigh the out come. I don't know what other junta have this much autonomy to the people.

The only thing that I see affected are the very people who created this mess and caused the military to take over, The politicians.

Indeed, I don't see anyone anywhere I go that is affected by martial law, but then I don't associate with politicians or trouble makers.

The OP says there are 20 people detained......Out of 65 million.

While the other 64.9999, whatever million go about their normal business.

Yo Robby nz, Hey cuz,

Just woundering if you count only the political persons being held or do you also put into that equasion any of the people thatare detianed for thier "A A"?

also do you know that the uni students that sangsonge and gave out free books ( the onethats baned currently) are still being held and there are more and more uni students come and calling for thier releace, as for some here saying most people are unaffected,well sorry to inform you but all those that voted for the XPM yeah they are affected. by they waysee many touristsin Kho Tao, Samui at the moment? yeah eventhe ones that wanted YL out are very muchaffected.

and last but not least even you are as you need to cencer yourself or you could be in some serious striff in LOS at the moment.

Cheers cuz

Sorry for the missed space and typo's beer googlesand sticky keys

Edited February 15, 2015 by aussieinthailand

[Robby nz]

I find the article heading humorous. I think democracy eroded along time ago and that is why the military was able to took over.

The article is hardly any kind of an analysis but more of a generalization about any situation. Sure it will affect something in the long term negatively, but it will affect other things in a positive way. Depending which business you are in. So we have to weigh the out come. I don't know what other junta have this much autonomy to the people.

The only thing that I see affected are the very people who created this mess and caused the military to take over, The politicians.

Indeed, I don't see anyone anywhere I go that is affected by martial law, but then I don't associate with politicians or trouble makers.

The OP says there are 20 people detained......Out of 65 million.

While the other 64.9999, whatever million go about their normal business.

and 64.999999999999 cannot vote .000000000000000001 are 'given' their posts by the Junta but you are not a fan of democracy as it's not 'your country' Thais I know are downcast and 'waiting' because they ALL know this is about something we cannot discuss here

As usual hiding behind They all know" and "Those we cant discuss"

[Thai at Heart]

Coup caused political analysis to go to pot

[robblok]

Bangkok is a feudal system. It is running Thailand.

No worse then the shin dictatorship.

What has the shins got to do with my post, Rob? "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" I hope you are not one that believes in this quote?

I believe that Thailand never had a democracy and given the things the Shins have done im sure I am right. Whoever is in power will go after their enemies, the army does it the Shins did it. Whoever is in power will try to stay in power.. army and Shins again do the same thing.

I just feel the army is less bad as the Shins so I support them. So far they have done a lot more and are far more honest as the Shins and friends. They are far from perfect but the best there is at the moment. Maybe in 100 years Thailand will have a real democracy. What they had was just window dressing and would not have passed any tests back in the west. So I don't feel that it gives the previous government any moral high ground. We can only hope what will happen after the army.. but probably more of the same of whoever is in power.

[binjalin]

I find the article heading humorous. I think democracy eroded along time ago and that is why the military was able to took over.

The article is hardly any kind of an analysis but more of a generalization about any situation. Sure it will affect something in the long term negatively, but it will affect other things in a positive way. Depending which business you are in. So we have to weigh the out come. I don't know what other junta have this much autonomy to the people.

The only thing that I see affected are the very people who created this mess and caused the military to take over, The politicians.

Indeed, I don't see anyone anywhere I go that is affected by martial law, but then I don't associate with politicians or trouble makers.

The OP says there are 20 people detained......Out of 65 million.

While the other 64.9999, whatever million go about their normal business.

and 64.999999999999 cannot vote .000000000000000001 are 'given' their posts by the Junta but you are not a fan of democracy as it's not 'your country' Thais I know are downcast and 'waiting' because they ALL know this is about something we cannot discuss here

As usual hiding behind They all know" and "Those we cant discuss"

Why am I hiding? you think I don't WANT to discuss? we have all been warned by the mods and cannot discuss these things.

It is YOU who are manipulating the fact that it is against TVF rules to discuss these things to make it appear I am 'hiding' and do not want, like most in the country, to have an open debate

Shame on you trying to goad me into being banned,

Shame on you for using the TVF rules to obfuscate and SHAME on you for such cheap tricks because you have no real argument to support the junta

[MaxLee]

"'Democratic culture is being eroded'"

There never was democracy, just Election-Collections with one ruling party, justifying their term of DemoThaksinocracy

[dominique355]

I don't see the point of 'going on about it'. I am assuming the vast majority on TVF are ex-pats like myself so we have no dog in the hunt. And we who are from Western countries were democracy has cast it's shadow for decades or longer see democracy differently to Thai's and other Asian's.

Democracy or the lack of it means different things to different people. But when 99.999% of the population are not effected, why worry.

Sounds like: "I am healthy, I don't need any medical assistance. So why build hospitals and develop drugs?"

[emilymat]

The west is no longer a democracy anyway . we have been deceived in a real democracy everyone is equal this is no longer is the case in western countries .

I think you are confusing democracy with communism from your post...

[Robby nz]

Selective amnesia - look at the headlines from a year ago.

The headlines from this time last year were mostly about one of the most corrupt politicians in Thai history marching around Bangkok to "fight corruption."

They were then (like now) often pointing to the minority of the population dictating the majority, as the PDRC thugs brought down democracy through terror.

Finally back then (as now) the biggest proponents on TV of this were pensioners living in issan, married to former sex workers. Seems little has changed.

Thaksin wasn't marching around BKK he is far to gutless to come back to the country to face the criminal charges against him.

You seem to have got yourself a little mixed up, the thugs were the ones who were shooting and firing grenades at the protesters on a nightly and sometimes daily basis.

Pity that you have to liken all posters on here to yourself, but then I suppose that's all you understand and where you get your red bias from.

To stay on topic, point is that Suthep is the root cause , he was and still is the cancer of this country , and because of him, and only because of him, the economy went fast down, and a junta with no clue about economy isn't going to change that.

His last sentence can be softer, this proponents here on TV have mostly nothing to do with economy.....

Suthep was not and is not the root cause of anything.

The Amnesty bill was the root cause of the protests which is what the people came out and protested against, those people included those from the north with PT affiliations.

Suthep merely emerged as a leader of one of the BKK factions of the protests after the protests were underway.

You have been conned into accepting him as a scapegoat.

Yes the economy went downhill but this can not be only blamed on the protests for PT had left things in a mess when they dissolved the house with among other things 'forgetting' to allow for funds to pay the rice farmers, household and national debt being at the highest level ever and international economic downturn.

If you were to check out who is at present finance minister you will find out he is very well respected in international circles for his knowledge of finance and he does not tell white lies.

Things have started to level off now and are on the rise in spite of continuing international problems with economies and Russian tourist numbers down, the rice mountain is being sold off which will help

There are still many external factors which there is no control over, such as the continuing drought but we are only half way through the second month of the year so we wait and see what the next few months brings.

Please don't try to make excuses for him.

[Robby nz]

Indeed, I don't see anyone anywhere I go that is affected by martial law, but then I don't associate with politicians or trouble makers.

The OP says there are 20 people detained......Out of 65 million.

While the other 64.9999, whatever million go about their normal business.

and 64.999999999999 cannot vote .000000000000000001 are 'given' their posts by the Junta but you are not a fan of democracy as it's not 'your country' Thais I know are downcast and 'waiting' because they ALL know this is about something we cannot discuss here

As usual hiding behind They all know" and "Those we cant discuss"

Why am I hiding? you think I don't WANT to discuss? we have all been warned by the mods and cannot discuss these things.

It is YOU who are manipulating the fact that it is against TVF rules to discuss these things to make it appear I am 'hiding' and do not want, like most in the country, to have an open debate

Shame on you trying to goad me into being banned,

Shame on you for using the TVF rules to obfuscate and SHAME on you for such cheap tricks because you have no real argument to support the junta

The normal troll post we are used to seeing from you.

[Thian]

I don't understand why the EU, USA, Japan think martial law is a problem. Since the army is in control things are getting better very fast. Without the army it would never happen here.

In this pace Thailand might become a "normal" and healthy country in a few years, corruption has to be stopped and that's what the general is doing right now.

So let the general do his job and let the other nations take care of their own problems. I feel much better in Bangkok since the army is here.

[yellowboat]

Bangkok is a feudal system. It is running Thailand.

No worse then the shin dictatorship.

Never seen an elected dictator. Universal suffrage is far from perfect, but people usually get the government that deserve. As much as you and other despise them, the Shinawatra are hardworking and intelligent. More so than any other Thai family. They paid attention to those in the countryside while other privilege families stayed home. There are reasons to dislike them but why can't some other family challenge them ?

Edited February 15, 2015 by yellowboat

[JAG]

Indeed, I don't see anyone anywhere I go that is affected by martial law, but then I don't associate with politicians or trouble makers.

The OP says there are 20 people detained......Out of 65 million.

While the other 64.9999, whatever million go about their normal business.

and 64.999999999999 cannot vote .000000000000000001 are 'given' their posts by the Junta but you are not a fan of democracy as it's not 'your country' Thais I know are downcast and 'waiting' because they ALL know this is about something we cannot discuss here

As usual hiding behind They all know" and "Those we cant discuss"

Why am I hiding? you think I don't WANT to discuss? we have all been warned by the mods and cannot discuss these things.

It is YOU who are manipulating the fact that it is against TVF rules to discuss these things to make it appear I am 'hiding' and do not want, like most in the country, to have an open debate

Shame on you trying to goad me into being banned,

Shame on you for using the TVF rules to obfuscate and SHAME on you for such cheap tricks because you have no real argument to support the junta

The normal troll post we are used to seeing from you.

Can't deny his point so call him a troll?

[Paulc01]

Bangkok is a feudal system. It is running Thailand.

No worse then the shin dictatorship.

Never seen an elected dictator. Universal suffrage is far from perfect, but people usually get the government that deserve. As much as you and other despise them, the Shinawatra are hardworking and intelligent. More so than any other Thai family. They paid attention to those in the countryside while other privilege families stayed home. There are reasons to dislike them but why can't some other family challenge them ?

Iran, Venezuela, Turkey. Egypt (Morsi). And, of course, Germany, Hitler. That's just a beginning of a list of elected dictators.