Leaving Thailand for good

[slerickson]

You know, this particular misperception is an ongoing argument on TV. And it is usually made by people with mediocre job histories, and/or a miserable existence in their homeland, making retiring to Asia and "enjoying" forty baht meals out, 150 baht massages, and 1000 baht "girlfriends," a good deal.

All the foods I like are available here at no up charge. In Thailand they carry a 300% up charge---even before Villa or Foodland grab their own take.

On Friday, I bought a very nice Chilean Malbec, on sale, for $4.19. That's 125 baht. IN LOS, the same wine was close to 700 baht. I bought an excellent cheese on special, thick smoked bacon for a dollar a pound, and a steelhead trout filet for $4 (fresh, not farmed). That's far less than what I paid at Villa.

My gym does not require a membership, and so has no pesky salesman. It has a flat rate of $15 per month. I, like all members, have a key, making it available 24/7.

When I use UPS or FedEx here, they are reliable and reasonable. Nothing gets stolen, or nailed for extra fees.

When I pay a serviceman here to do work on my vehicle, or my lawnmower, or my plumbing or electric, it is almost always done expeditiously, safely and right, the first time. This, as opposed to going through a series of workers who not only don't get it right, but often make a problem worse.

In LOS, I never had my '65 Honda motorbike running correctly, because the mechanics were incompetent or dishonest. Or both. This increases a tradesman's "bargain" rates considerably, making them no longer a bargain.

One time when I went to pick up my bike after some work, I noticed the original Honda seat was replaced by junk, and my seat was on the bike of the mechanic's buddy. When I pointed this out, they did this: . When I insisted they put it back on my bike, they became confrontational. I had to pay a cop to get my seat back. I don't think I have never had that experience at a Honda bike shop in the USA.

I bought a new gas BBQ last week at Home Depot. Regular cost was $99. On sale for $69. What's a gas BBQ in Thailand? I know the answer: about 10,000 baht for junk. The price goes up from there. The dumbbells I bought in LOS? One there cost as much as six here.

If I buy something at most stores here, there is a no-questions-asked return policy. I have returned to the local Smith's Supermarket, a number of items I found unsatisfactory. Always a smile when handing back my money. As such, I am a loyal customer. In November after returning to the States, I was checking out some groceries, and the bill was fifty-some dollars. I jokingly asked the checker if he had any coupons. He reached in his apron pocket, and swiped one across the scanner, and my bill dropped to $32. This is now a regular occurrence.

Gas where I live is almost half the price it is in Thailand. It is lower in other states.

In Thailand used vehicles carry a ridiculous price. Last week, I bought a '66 Chevy Bel Air. It had sat in an old lady's garage for years, and has 38,000 original miles. I paid $3700 for it. Now I have my eye on a '65, fully restored Chev pickup. $7000. Far less than a used pickup in average condition in Thailand. Both are investments that will never lose me money.

The Asian market I shop in Salt Lake City, actually has lower prices than back at Rhek Thum's "fresh market." And they are the same brands.

Here the tennis courts are free, and in good condition.

Here, cops don't stop me when I'm driving legally, unlike Thailand where they attempt to extort money. And here, Avis doesn't even think of extorting me for a pre-existing scratch, when I return a rental to the airport, just because I speak English.

My dentist here does not try to drill out non-existent cavities, nor pull a cracked tooth that can be repaired (if you have good training), nor spends a mere 15 minutes "cleaning" my teeth. Here it takes a solid hour,and is done right, so I only have to go twice a year rather than every couple of months.

This summer I'm out to buy a piece of land and build a vacation home. It's mine when I'm done, though my wife's name will also be on it. And where we are building, land is cheaper per acre than the rubber tree land where I lived in Rhek Thum. Don't believe me? Do your due diligence and research it, and you'll find my claim holds water.

Most of the nutritional products I take that keep me free of those expensive American doctor bills, are not available in Thailand. The few that are, are substantially lower in price here than in LOS. After feeling like crap the past few years, I am once again healthy and have my vitality back. That has great economic value.

The firearms I buy to go hunting and target shooting are at the very least, 1/3 the price they are in Thailand. The books I read are cheaper when new at the store, and a once-read paperback bought at a garage sale is 10 baht.

The tools I will use to build my house, Makita, Ryobi, and Milwaukee, are much less expensive here in the States. And if they break, the warranty work is done locally and in days. Usually they just hand over a new tool. The building material selection is far more diverse here, enabling both short-term and long-term savings.

Are there exceptions? Are there things cheaper in LOS?

Sure. Instant water heaters, air conditioners, unhygienic meals out, short-time"girlfriends," and massages. There are others, such as contact lenses, but as a whole do not measure up to a genuine savings.

Many items may be cheaper, but are built so cheaply they have a crap service life. Water pumps, clothing, and electrical items are a good example. Speaking of clothing, I bought new Levis last month. On sale, plus a coupon, $22 a pair. Good luck with that in LOS.

Want to retire to a warm climate that has reasonable prices? Try Port Charlotte, Florida. Check out the land and housing prices, and all the free services and discounts for seniors. Thailand does not even come close.

I think that is a pretty fair assessment and comparison. I am single 57 and have worked in many USA states. FL is my permanent home but I am often working out of state on a contract. I have been to Thailand 14 times, sometimes staying for over two months on a trip. I can punch out and retire but I just am not ready to do that yet. I would be bored in Thailand. I don't want to inherit a family or start a family. I worked hard to get where I am financially and I like having the option to stay or go. Thailand does and will require you to compromise on a lot of things that you take for granted in the USA. For some people, that is a non-issue. For others, the little things can add up and make the place very frustrating.

.

That's a good point. I too worked hard to get where I am, and my earning potential, and what I am again earning now that I'm back in the States, is quite good. Retirement for me was boring, debilitating even.

But many of those contending Thailand is cheaper, had low earning ability and "retired" to a third world country on a tight pension. I don't criticize that, but it does not mean LOS is cheaper than the States. It means you are giving things up.

And I lived in Chiang Mai. A truly "nice" apartment and all the amenities someone listed, can not be had for 45,000 baht a month. The nice condos cost 25-30k a month alone. Hell, just the Starbucks he claims to drink every day would be costing him 4000 baht a month.

All the guys who say Thailand is cheaper, always focus on the rent.

What a crock! I just moved here from Portland, OR where yes the rent is ridiculous, but I find it difficult to come up with anything that costs more in Thailand. Forget Sbucks and go for local coffee shops, Toyota dealer service, Island snorkeling trip, Chang beer, dining out, emergency room visit, motorbike rental, maid service, on and on and all are much cheaper here. Not to mention many things are in fact better in quality.

[lostoday]

All the guys who say Thailand is cheaper, always focus on the rent.

What a crock! I just moved here from Portland, OR where yes the rent is ridiculous, but I find it difficult to come up with anything that costs more in Thailand.

Why wouldn't one focus on the rent/housing as it is the largest budgetary item? If you didn't focus on the rent you be still living at home with mom.

[JB300]

Found a typical household budget breakdown... http://budgeting.thenest.com/typical-percentages-household-budgets-3299.html... And thought I'd annotate it with #my# (YMWV... Your Mileage #Will# Vary) best guess of a Thailand Budget.

Housing (34% - covers mortgages & lots of taxes etc... that you wouldn't need to pay so I'd guess 15%)

Housing costs normally take the biggest bite out of your budget. The Bureau of Labor Statistics’ annual report on consumer expenditures showed that 34 percent of Americans’ spending goes towards housing costs. Roughly 60 percent of the average housing expense covers mortgage or rent costs, real estate taxes and homeowner’s insurance, while the rest goes towards utilities, furnishings and maintaining the home. Potential lenders use this budget line item to determine how much mortgage you can qualify for. BankRate.com states that potential lenders limit your basic housing expense, including mortgage payment, real estate taxes and homeowner’s insurance, to 28 percent of gross annual income.

Transportation (17% covering 2 cars, would suggest this is more like 10% for Thailand)

Transportation is normally the second-largest expense in a household budget, although this amount can vary quite a bit depending on your personal situation. The BLS report shows that the average American two-car household’s transportation expense accounts for over 17 percent of the overall budget. This expense may run as low as 10 percent or as high as 20 percent if you work from a home-based office, live in a metro-center with public transportation or have a long working commute.

Food (15-20%, feels more like 15% for Thailand)

A big chunk of most household budgets goes towards food. Although budgeting 15 to 20 percent of your expenditures towards food is acceptable, food spending for most Americans is closer to 13 percent of their overall expenditures. At-home food consumption accounts for almost 60 percent of all food spending, while Starbucks and the local cafe eat up the remaining 40 percent.

Savings, Insurance and Health Care (5-10%... 15% including Visa costs feels about right)

Life insurance, health care expenses, retirement savings, personal savings and cash contributions can take a toll on your budget, but they are the most important line items in your budget. Life insurance and retirement amounts to over 10 percent of the average household budget, health care comes in at roughly 6 percent and cash contributions almost 4 percent. Although Americans sometimes falter when it comes to personal savings, you should budget 5 to 10 percent of your budget towards it. Debt specialists Care One recommends taking a “pay yourself first” attitude when it comes towards savings to be sure you have enough reserves built up in case the unforeseen happens.

Personal Expenses (16%... 100% of whatever's left sounds better so 45% )

According to the BLS, roughly 16 percent of the average American’s spending goes towards clothing, personal services, education, reading, entertainment, tobacco, alcoholic beverages and other miscellaneous expenses. Be careful when calculating your entertainment expenses to not include meals eaten away from home, as they should be incorporated into your food budget.

Edited April 24, 2015 by JB300

[fey]

People who keep saying that the price of certain female entertainment is so much cheaper in Thailand. Are getting the same things in the USA

If you dont. Believe it, go to the Miami back page and look at the escort. And message and the women seeking men pages, and you will see plenty Asian girls, right here, in the USA

There is no longer a need to go to Thailand. Just for that, not that I do, but I did, at first....

I sure didnt come to Thailand. To see Temples but I saw a dozen of them.anyway, in Bali and Laos too..... What I was looking for was the temple priestesses, but all I saw was tourists

using escort ads in the us your taking a huge risk. robbery or worse. were talking real bad stuff, not just a girl taking your phone or stealing. not at all the same as thailand. the risk of being setup or stung by law enforcement is huge as well and very common.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Even at 60 baht per Chang, you are still talking $12.00 for a 6 pack, which is higher for Thai cheap beer than it is for fresh breeds in the US.

A 6/ pack of Hoegaarden in the USA is $9.00

In Thailand, its $5.00 per bottle

You cannot live a good upper middle class style life in Thailand, for less than you can in the US,

The US is less and you get more.

The difference is the sheer numbers of poor uneducated women being pimped in bars and massage parlors

But they are flooding the US now, and I see Asian massage joints here now like you see 7-11 there

[beachproperty]

Even at 60 baht per Chang, you are still talking $12.00 for a 6 pack, which is higher for Thai cheap beer than it is for fresh breeds in the US.

A 6/ pack of Hoegaarden in the USA is $9.00

In Thailand, its $5.00 per bottle

You cannot live a good upper middle class style life in Thailand, for less than you can in the US,

The US is less and you get more.

The difference is the sheer numbers of poor uneducated women being pimped in bars and massage parlors

But they are flooding the US now, and I see Asian massage joints here now like you see 7-11 there

Don't know why you (and others) continue to post regarding costs of living in Thailand vs USA. You've never lived here and Thailand is a BIG country with varying costs throughout. You mentiond upper middle class living....well

Upper-middle-class workers typically have post-graduate degrees and work at high-level, white-collar positions. Household income for these workers is often above $100,000. According to the Census bureau, upper-middle-class, or professional class workers, earn enough to be in the top one-third of American incomes.Sep 13, 2012

Where Do You Fall in the American Economic Class System ...

money.usnews.com/.../where-do-you-fall-in-the-american-economic-class-s...

$100,000 dollars a year in Thailand DOES provide a very nice living....even if a soapy king, sex tourist like you doesn't believe it. I'm living proof as are many others that live here on less than that very nicely!

But getting back to the original topic.....I'm here to the end, as this is where my life is now with my Thai wife and family.

For the Thread on Living the high life in Thailand go to:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/808975-how-much-do-i-need-to-retire-in-thailand-with-a-fairly-high-standard-of-living/page-13

Edited April 24, 2015 by beachproperty

[benalibina]

Even at 60 baht per Chang, you are still talking $12.00 for a 6 pack, which is higher for Thai cheap beer than it is for fresh breeds in the US.

A 6/ pack of Hoegaarden in the USA is $9.00

In Thailand, its $5.00 per bottle

You cannot live a good upper middle class style life in Thailand, for less than you can in the US,

The US is less and you get more.

The difference is the sheer numbers of poor uneducated women being pimped in bars and massage parlors

But they are flooding the US now, and I see Asian massage joints here now like you see 7-11 there

Don't know why you (and others) continue to post regarding costs of living in Thailand vs USA. You've never lived here and Thailand is a BIG country with varying costs throughout. You mentiond upper middle class living....well

Upper-middle-class workers typically have post-graduate degrees and work at high-level, white-collar positions. Household income for these workers is often above $100,000. According to the Census bureau, upper-middle-class, or professional class workers, earn enough to be in the top one-third of American incomes.Sep 13, 2012

Where Do You Fall in the American Economic Class System ...

money.usnews.com/.../where-do-you-fall-in-the-american-economic-class-s...

$100,000 dollars a year in Thailand DOES provide a very nice living....even if a soapy king, sex tourist like you doesn't believe it. I'm living proof as are many others that live here on less than that very nicely!

But getting back to the original topic.....I'm here to the end, as this is where my life is now with my Thai wife and family.

For the Thread on Living the high life in Thailand go to:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/808975-how-much-do-i-need-to-retire-in-thailand-with-a-fairly-high-standard-of-living/page-13

For a moment I thought........hmmm....just a flashback......let it return.....for some entertainment.

[slerickson]

Even at 60 baht per Chang, you are still talking $12.00 for a 6 pack, which is higher for Thai cheap beer than it is for fresh breeds in the US.

A 6/ pack of Hoegaarden in the USA is $9.00

In Thailand, its $5.00 per bottle

You cannot live a good upper middle class style life in Thailand, for less than you can in the US,

The US is less and you get more.

The difference is the sheer numbers of poor uneducated women being pimped in bars and massage parlors

But they are flooding the US now, and I see Asian massage joints here now like you see 7-11 there

Good someone posts an example.

Large Chang is 1.67 usd here, now. Chang is over 4 in U.S.

Micro brews in U.S. Run about triple that.

No idea what Hoegarden is but I its be stupid to buy here if it's too expensive.

This

[ScarpoFongness4U]

I posted from my experience of living the way I wanted to live in Thailand

In a new, two bedroom condo hotel, in the Penthouse, with only one other condo on the floor, a sun deck area with new tables chairs umbrellas and a gym on another floor that brought in young people

I wanted to eat western food and they had a restaurant downstairs and breakfast was brought to my room every morning

I could walk to the buffet I liked or I could be brought by their spiffy tuk tuk

They let me play my guitar thru the amp, and I liked that apparently their walls were so thick, no one ever complained, again because the condo next to me was often vacant

That was 60,000/baht a month, and worth every baht

They were very nice to my soapy princess and always washed her car if it needed and always walked her to the door, and brought her car to her...

After I moved in with her, into what was a beautiful guard gated home development, recently built, I frequently had dinner at at the promenade and mingled well with the locals

I refer to what it costs to live in Thailand, in the city, in upper middle class fashion and I say again

I can live that way, and have for the last 30 years, in south Florida in better form than I can in Thailand, for less money

Notice the word I, in front of everything I, said

Ps.

I was also seeing what many here call the nice Thai girls, educated, with great jobs, earning 60,000 to 80,000 baht a month plus commission on sales/ and,

I prefer the soapy, and the last few girls I was with whom I found in the dance clubs of Patpong

Notice, I said I, again, not you

[beachproperty]

I posted from my experience of living the way I wanted to live in Thailand

In a new, two bedroom condo hotel, in the Penthouse, with only one other condo on the floor, a sun deck area with new tables chairs umbrellas and a gym on another floor that brought in young people

I wanted to eat western food and they had a restaurant downstairs and breakfast was brought to my room every morning

I could walk to the buffet I liked or I could be brought by their spiffy tuk tuk

They let me play my guitar thru the amp, and I liked that apparently their walls were so thick, no one ever complained, again because the condo next to me was often vacant

That was 60,000/baht a month, and worth every baht

They were very nice to my soapy princess and always washed her car if it needed and always walked her to the door, and brought her car to her...

After I moved in with her, into what was a beautiful guard gated home development, recently built, I frequently had dinner at at the promenade and mingled well with the locals

I refer to what it costs to live in Thailand, in the city, in upper middle class fashion and I say again

I can live that way, and have for the last 30 years, in south Florida in better form than I can in Thailand, for less money

Notice the word I, in front of everything I, said

Ps.

I was also seeing what many here call the nice Thai girls, educated, with great jobs, earning 60,000 to 80,000 baht a month plus commission on sales/ and,

I prefer the soapy, and the last few girls I was with whom I found in the dance clubs of Patpong

Notice, I said I, again, not you

....your prior post prominently stated "You cannot live a good upper middle class style life in Thailand, for less than you can in the US," ..and you continue to say "you" ...meaning anyone

I just pointed out that anyone can ....easily on $100,000/yr (cost of middle class life in USA) in Thailand ....Guess YOU missed that point!

Also as a sex tourist your costs are considerably higher than your upper middle class expat living in Thailand. Guess you forgot your just a tourist ....ie living in a condo/Hotel. How much would that same condo/hotel room cost you in Miami (remember its a short term rental!)? $10,000 dollars/month?

This post just confirms your lack of knowledge of Thailand and that it is more than limited, but extremely narrow in view.

Edited April 25, 2015 by beachproperty

[bannork]

Flaungs <deleted> in Thailand and still missing it judging by the number of posts from those in exile.It's a bit like leaving a woman for some reason yet still stalking her on facebook.
I went back to Blighty 2 weeks ago for a visit, the trees were still leafless, yet on my return to los I looked out of the window from the train from the airport and saw nothing but hues of green from brilliant to dark. Oh joyous Thailand, it just makes you happy to be alive.

[Toknarok]

How many expats, especially those living in cities, have maids. I've no idea but I'll bet it's a good percentage. Where in the US could you employ a full time maid for 10K baht a month? Emply legally, not some paperless illegal immigrant.

[jonnyramone]

Funny that most of the people claiming to live in thay style choose some of the most western cities (Pattaya,Phuket,Chang Mai). I don't think there are so many gentlemen here that want to live like thais...

[NCFC]

How many expats, especially those living in cities, have maids. I've no idea but I'll bet it's a good percentage. Where in the US could you employ a full time maid for 10K baht a month? Emply legally, not some paperless illegal immigrant.

Plenty of expats in Thailand would be happy to earn 10k baht a month if it meant they could stay there.

[VIPinthailand]

oh yeah... USA houses are very strong and very safe.... I feel safer in the USA.

USA quality #1.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Greensburg_kansas_tornado.jpg

hey, I can see pieces of your high quality house flying over my head.

problem with some guys here, they are out of the reality. they don't realise that life in Americka has dramatically changed .

Edited April 25, 2015 by VIPinthailand

[sirineou]

oh yeah... USA houses are very strong and very safe.... I feel safer in the USA.

USA quality #1.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Greensburg_kansas_tornado.jpg

hey, I can see pieces of your high quality house flying over my head.

Nonsense

what do you think would happen to a Thai ,or for that matter any other neighborhood in the world hit by a EF5 category tornado

I find it difficult to think that there is any one who would argue that building codes in Thailand are stronger than the US

or their endorsement better than the US

I dont even know why people are still arguing over the US vs Thailand living cost issue,

Nobody loves Thailand and the Thai people more than I do, if you would go back and look at my posting history, one could describe me as a Thai apologist, I dont like that description, I like to think my self as a realist

and the reality is that

the only thing that is less expensive in Thailand are things that derive their value from Thai labor which is cheap right now

I emphasize "right now" because Thai labor costs in Thailand are rising.

Other things are less expensive due to the nonexistent or unenforced consumer protection.but that front end saving in price comes with a back end cost

So Imported goods are often more expensive, due to the scale of economies but some of that cost is offset by current lower labor costs and a willingness to exchange a safety for a lower price

For me price is not the issue, I love Thailand, my wife is Thai, her family is here, so regardless of the cost we are here to stay, BUT at the same time I am getting older, health issues are emerging, so an exit strategy is prudent

So as much time as work will permit in Thailand the rest in the US, later on when I retire, I will re-examine the situation, but I suspect , six months in the US six months in Thailand would be the best for me

For others in a different stage of their lives or different situation a different formula might be more prudent.

edit typo

Edited April 25, 2015 by sirineou

[MaeJoMTB]

oh yeah... USA houses are very strong and very safe.... I feel safer in the USA.

USA quality #1.

hey, I can see pieces of your high quality house flying over my head.

Nonsense

what do you think would happen to a Thai ,or for that matter any other neighborhood in the world hit by a EF5 category tornado

I find it difficult to think that there is any one who would argue that building codes in Thailand are stronger than the US

or their endorsement better than the US

I live in a concrete floored/walled house with a steel frame roof.

I might lose some windows and tiles, but confident the house and lower floor would remain intact.

Wood Vs Tornado reminds me of the three little pigs story.

Don't care about building codes, wood don't cut it.

Edited April 25, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[lostoday]

the only thing that is less expensive in Thailand are things that derive their value from Thai labor which is cheap right now

I emphasize "right now" because Thai labor costs in Thailand are rising.

Other things are less expensive due to the nonexistent or unenforced consumer protection.but that front end saving in price comes with a back end cost

A lot of things in Thailand are cheaper because of climate. One does not really need heat or AC. A lot of things are cheaper because of multiple growing seasons. And many other things but you get the idea.

Labor rates are going up all over the world. Thailand will retain its percentage rate in comparison with most other countries. No reason to think about parity of Thai wages with the USA or UK as it will never happen.

The US dollar will always be worth at least 25 times more than the Thai baht because things always move in tandem and not alone.

There are forces working in Thailand that insist there is a large class division and I don't see that changing.

[sirineou]

oh yeah... USA houses are very strong and very safe.... I feel safer in the USA.

USA quality #1.

hey, I can see pieces of your high quality house flying over my head.

Nonsense

what do you think would happen to a Thai ,or for that matter any other neighborhood in the world hit by a EF5 category tornado

I find it difficult to think that there is any one who would argue that building codes in Thailand are stronger than the US

or their endorsement better than the US

I live in a concrete floored/walled house with a steel frame roof.

I might lose some windows and tiles, but confident the house and lower floor would remain intact.

Wood Vs Tornado reminds me of the three little pigs story.

Don't care about building codes, wood don't cut it.

Building material use in a particular area are represent of the availability of these material in that area, weather conditions, and other variables.

Yellow pine and Doug Fir are in abundance in the US, they provide a stable cost effective, well insulated, durable envelope that lasts hundreds of years

The damage caused to them by an EF5 category tornado is not representative of their quality,

an EF5 tornado packs winds estimated to be in excess of 320 km/ph I dont think there are any structures that will fare well in such a situation, certainly not the village town or city you live in.

But if you want to argue that construction codes, enforcement and quality is better in Thailand go ahead,

[sirineou]

the only thing that is less expensive in Thailand are things that derive their value from Thai labor which is cheap right now

I emphasize "right now" because Thai labor costs in Thailand are rising.

Other things are less expensive due to the nonexistent or unenforced consumer protection.but that front end saving in price comes with a back end cost

A lot of things in Thailand are cheaper because of climate. One does not really need heat or AC. A lot of things are cheaper because of multiple growing seasons. And many other things but you get the idea.

Labor rates are going up all over the world. Thailand will retain its percentage rate in comparison with most other countries. No reason to think about parity of Thai wages with the USA or UK as it will never happen.

The US dollar will always be worth at least 25 times more than the Thai baht because things always move in tandem and not alone.

There are forces working in Thailand that insist there is a large class division and I don't see that changing.

Certainly don't need heat, but I would respectful disagree about ac. I guess it depends where in Thailand you are , but in most places you do .

In Thailand we have wall units and most people run them some of the time because of the cost

In my Florida home in the US where the weather is similar to Thailand I have central ac/heat that runs 24/7

if the temperature raises above 74F the ac kicks in automatically if in the winter drops below 74F it reverses cycle and the heat kicks in, my electric which includes hot water, light and cooking, and running a large number of electronics, averages 5212 bht per month

Try running your ac 24/7 in every room in Thailand

Thailand is an emerging economy, if it is to developed it has to make the transition from a low wage economy to a high quality economy, such as every other developed country, if it will ever reach parity with the US is arguable, but higher wages that will eliminate most of the low wage cost advantage is inevitable if Thailand is to develop.

Unless of course you want to argue that Thailand will never develop.

[MaeJoMTB]

Unless of course you want to argue that Thailand will never develop.

I will take that argument.

I suspect very few countries in the world will develop much more now.

In fact, what is likely is the west will go backward and civilization will fall.

[MaeJoMTB]

But if you want to argue that construction codes, enforcement and quality is better in Thailand go ahead,

No, I will argue that tornado's don't knock down brick and concrete buildings as easily as wood houses.

"As for construction of homes versus tornadoes. Most tornadoes are weak and can peel off shingles or parts of roofs along with siding, etc. A brick house is definitely better than a stick-built 2X4 sheetrock and stapled particle board house with vinyl siding. Brick clearly is stronger and a brick home also doesn't suffer hail damage or small flying debris damage as easily. The most storms are violent thunderstorms with gale-force or storm-force winds and brick definitely is better than a conventional siding house. However, as versatile said, a powerful tornado f3 and f4 can destroy both kinds of homes if hit right and a regular house with siding can be punctured much more easily. I wouldn't feel safe in a strong storm in one. An f5 can not only wipe the house off the foundation, but it can peel asphalt off of roads and even in some cases lift slab foundations. Nothing survives a direct hit by an f5. Even hundred year old trees can be sucked out of the ground by a tornado that strong, roots and all. Only being underground in a shelter can save you.

The only construction that has been proven to have escaped destruction in a direct tornado hit is a concrete dome"

On the other hand,

Wood is probably better in an earthquake.

Edited April 25, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[JB300]

Whether country A or Country B is cheaper depends on your personal circumstances & how you live your life.

As an example, I left Singapore at the end of Feb after 6 1/2 years & can only say that it was #considerably# cheaper living there for me than living in the North West of the UK.

Only Major Expense in Singapore was housing which including all utilities was around £2000 per month Vs I own my home in UK so cost me around £5-600 per month in utilities, council tax, insurance etc...

Offset against this was a saving of around £1,200 per month as I wasn't running 2 cars & almost £2,500 per month (yes almost £30,000 pa) in less tax/no N.I. So I was quids in.

However, If I'd wanted to run a single (decent) car in Singapore, I probably would have been better off in the UK.

But obviously Singapore has recently been voted the most expensive city in the world so my personal experience can't be valid can it [emoji15]

Edited April 25, 2015 by JB300

[sirineou]

But if you want to argue that construction codes, enforcement and quality is better in Thailand go ahead,

No, I will argue that tornado's don't knock down brick and concrete buildings.

and with out changing the subject of this thread you would be wrong both in the civilization comment and in the structural assessment of concrete buildings

in the event of an F5 tornado, winds in excess of 320 km/ph will be generated, The first thing that will happen would be that your windows will blow in , either from the wind or from projectiles, then your roof will lift, and your brick , breeze block or supper block, non load bearing walls will collapse, leaving you with the columns,

You of course being in Thailand and not having a basement to escape to, will not care very much about it, as you would be dead

[lostoday]

A lot of things in Thailand are cheaper because of climate. One does not really need heat or AC. A lot of things are cheaper because of multiple growing seasons. And many other things but you get the idea.

Labor rates are going up all over the world. Thailand will retain its percentage rate in comparison with most other countries. No reason to think about parity of Thai wages with the USA or UK as it will never happen.

The US dollar will always be worth at least 25 times more than the Thai baht because things always move in tandem and not alone.

There are forces working in Thailand that insist there is a large class division and I don't see that changing.

Certainly don't need heat, but I would respectful disagree about ac. I guess it depends where in Thailand you are , but in most places you do .

In Thailand we have wall units and most people run them some of the time because of the cost

In my Florida home in the US where the weather is similar to Thailand I have central ac/heat that runs 24/7

if the temperature raises above 74F the ac kicks in automatically if in the winter drops below 74F it reverses cycle and the heat kicks in, my electric which includes hot water, light and cooking, and running a large number of electronics, averages 5212 bht per month

Try running your ac 24/7 in every room in Thailand

Thailand is an emerging economy, if it is to developed it has to make the transition from a low wage economy to a high quality economy, such as every other developed country, if it will ever reach parity with the US is arguable, but higher wages that will eliminate most of the low wage cost advantage is inevitable if Thailand is to develop.

Unless of course you want to argue that Thailand will never develop.

I lived in Thailand and Florida when the majority of the natives did not have AC. About 50% of homes built in the 1960's in Florida still did not have central AC. We got a TV a few years before we got AC.

MY electric bill runs under 2000 baht and I run the AC almost 24/7 (not in every room only in the rooms I use). I been here a long time and don't need the cold temps most Farangs do.

Thailand and the US have been separated by the same wage ratio for the past 50 years. I see no reason it will change. Thai current events support this theory.

Edited April 25, 2015 by lostoday

[sirineou]

A lot of things in Thailand are cheaper because of climate. One does not really need heat or AC. A lot of things are cheaper because of multiple growing seasons. And many other things but you get the idea.

Labor rates are going up all over the world. Thailand will retain its percentage rate in comparison with most other countries. No reason to think about parity of Thai wages with the USA or UK as it will never happen.

The US dollar will always be worth at least 25 times more than the Thai baht because things always move in tandem and not alone.

There are forces working in Thailand that insist there is a large class division and I don't see that changing.

Certainly don't need heat, but I would respectful disagree about ac. I guess it depends where in Thailand you are , but in most places you do .

In Thailand we have wall units and most people run them some of the time because of the cost

In my Florida home in the US where the weather is similar to Thailand I have central ac/heat that runs 24/7

if the temperature raises above 74F the ac kicks in automatically if in the winter drops below 74F it reverses cycle and the heat kicks in, my electric which includes hot water, light and cooking, and running a large number of electronics, averages 5212 bht per month

Try running your ac 24/7 in every room in Thailand

Thailand is an emerging economy, if it is to developed it has to make the transition from a low wage economy to a high quality economy, such as every other developed country, if it will ever reach parity with the US is arguable, but higher wages that will eliminate most of the low wage cost advantage is inevitable if Thailand is to develop.

Unless of course you want to argue that Thailand will never develop.

I lived in Thailand and Florida when the majority of the natives did not have AC. About 50% of homes built in the 1960's in Florida still did not have central AC. We got a TV a few years before we got AC.

MY electric bill runs under 2000 baht and I run the AC almost 24/7 (not in every room only in the rooms I use). I been here a long time and don't need the cold temps most Farangs do.

Thailand and the US have been separated by the same wage ratio for the past 50 years. I see no reason it will change. Thai current events support this theory.

This was true 75 years ago many things did not exist in the US, including me but that is not the case now

and we are comparing conditions now

You might be right about the wage ratios between the US and Thailand, I dont profess any particular expertise in the subject, all I can say is that wages in the US, have being on the decline, where they have being rising in Thailand, this can not be very good for the ratio., but this could be a temporary condition, that is why I say that when I a ready to retire full time, in five years I will reconsider the situation

But I think you and me are essentially making the same point,

as you said, at least in the case of e/c, you are paying less, but by your admission, you are getting less

every room in the house US vs one room in the house Thailand

If you are willing to accept less then Thailand is cheaper, but then so would be the US.in some cases

in other cases in the US you dont have the choice of accepting less.

More is mandated and if you want less you are out of luck, and that is an other thing to consider in this discussion.

[kannot]

Flaungs <deleted> in Thailand and still missing it judging by the number of posts from those in exile.It's a bit like leaving a woman for some reason yet still stalking her on facebook.

I went back to Blighty 2 weeks ago for a visit, the trees were still leafless, yet on my return to los I looked out of the window from the train from the airport and saw nothing but hues of green from brilliant to dark. Oh joyous Thailand, it just makes you happy to be alive.

Until it goes wrong then yes

[lostoday]

Thai houses have advantages. No hot water tanks. No hot water to wash with. No dish washers. Room air conditioners.

Many places in Thailand you don't need a car. Almost everywhere in the US. Motor scooters and motor cycles are more efficient as is public transportation. 10 forms of public transportation; 1. Motor scooter taxi, tuk tuk, song taus, vans, bus, taxi, subway, elevated and train.

Thai government subsidizes; electric, water, gas and oil and health care among other things has a; being poor and powerless is cool campaign going on.

Edited April 25, 2015 by lostoday

[kannot]

How many expats, especially those living in cities, have maids. I've no idea but I'll bet it's a good percentage. Where in the US could you employ a full time maid for 10K baht a month? Emply legally, not some paperless illegal immigrant.

Have you ACTUALLY tried to get staff in the last few years?

I have and 10k doesnt cut it anymore Im afraid, had a kid recently he was working as a security guard on the BTS 18k a month he quit saying it was long hours and he was tired, he came to work for me on our land and lasted 6 weeks before saying the work was to hard, him and his girlfriend were getting 18k for both of them + free house food, motorcycle and free fuel and 1 day a week off.

Looks now like 12k is the rate for a man round by me and builders workers ask 500 a day even though they still have little skills if any.

[SpokaneAl]

My Thai wife of 40 years and I just returned a couple of days ago to our home in the U.S. after six months in Thailand. We also have a home in Thailand and we split our time between both countries with six months or so in each.

It is always nice to return to the U.S. where infrastructure, roads, laws, and the quality of our home and community are light years beyond that in Thailand. I also appreciate in how easy it is to get things done, resolve issues whether they involve public services, private companies or just taking care of day to day stuff.

I also tend to forget how nice it is to just, once again, to be able to blend into crowds and not stand out everywhere I go as the Falang.

While we have a very nice home in Thailand with a/c, a car and a scooter, my wife always says to enjoy and adapt in Thailand one must enjoy camping.

In the states it is good to be back with our son, although his work schedule makes visits a bit on the sporadic side. In the states I have a boatload of friends and acquaintances.

However, in Thailand, while I have few friends, we have a very close immediate family and a large extended family. In Thailand I dearly love our family relationships and just live for doing the daily small things together.

Returning to the U.S. means returning to a sense of normalcy, comfort and convenience. It also means a sadness at saying goodbye to my Thai family.

For us is is not a question of which place is cheaper. We will continue splitting our time between the two countries, and as the years go by, I find myself as a man split between two cultures and countries.

That day in the future when health issues could drive us to saying a forever goodbye to our beloved Thai family will be a sad one indeed.

Meanwhile, my wife and I, as we move into our mid 60s, grow more introspective about life and try to enjoy each day, celebrate living, and appreciate each other and our amazing family spread between the two countries and cultures.

Edited April 25, 2015 by SpokaneAl