Harsh Overstay Rules - Ever Enforced?

[ExpatOilWorker]

You are required to sign the attached document when getting a Non-O extension, but are these rather harsh rules really enforced to the letter?

[ubonjoe]

Those rules proposed by immigration have never been approved by a higher authority and probably will never be. Immigration offices should of already stopped having people sign that acknowledgement.

This has been discussed many times already.

[Whitty772]

These rules are posted up in Lop Buri Immigration. I would not take a chance they are not law.

[Mario2008]

The ae posted at many immigration offices, but as said they are not approved yet and the question is if they ever will.

[Pib]

The ae posted at many immigration offices, but as said they are not approved yet and the question is if they ever will.

Don't guess all immigration offices know that...or maybe they are still trying to figure out how to remove their posting (removing a tack, tape or staple can get tricky)....or maybe they feel there is still a chance they will get approved.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Pib

[ubonjoe]

It has been around 9 months since immigration first came out with the proposed rules and still no approval of them. Not very likely they will approved.

I think they were shot down because the only way to do it would be to change the immigration act of 1979 which sets the maximum fine of 20k baht as the only penalty.

[Evolare]

Yupp they are used as intimidation In the immigration offices. Has no merit there are plenty of people with serious overstay that have left and come back without problem.

[gilo]

11 year overstay no ban and today was granted another extension from a tourist visa with no mention or any questions of the overstay. Just wished a happy Chinese new year.by the nice lady I/O in CW. Arrived and got ticket stamped 8.55 and I was in taxi back to condo at 9.30 with extension stamp.

Edited February 19, 2015 by gilo

[jacky54]

should be enforced to stop the abuse of the rules.

[ubonjoe]

should be enforced to stop the abuse of the rules.

How can something be enforced that is not a rule, regulation or law. The only punishment allowed is the 20k baht max fine.

[Lekong]

The immigration laws are so lax here. In China over stay is equivalent to a five year ban and a penalty of 5000 yuan. I paid this in 2012 December. When I reported myself as an over stayer, the immigration said since I was there for 6 years as an illegal immigrant, they needed to investigate me for 1 to 2 months and they did for a month and a half before giving me a 10 day visa to leave China. Here, one can over stay, get a visa and go to a neighboring country, pay the penalty at the airport and get another visa to come back in as if nothing has happened. Very very easy and good here.

[Eff1n2ret]

It has been around 9 months since immigration first came out with the proposed rules and still no approval of them. Not very likely they will approved.

I think they were shot down because the only way to do it would be to change the immigration act of 1979 which sets the maximum fine of 20k baht as the only penalty.

I had to sign this form when I applied for a retirement extension the other day, as well as another one acknowledging the liability to a fine for overstaying, neither of which I have seen in previous years. Presumably if the ban periods had any legal force they could combine all the penalties on one form. They might argue that your signature denotes acceptance of such penalties, but unless the system is legally in place to enforce them the form probably doesn't mean very much.

[ubonjoe]

The form means nothing it is just an acknowledgement of the purported rules. I signed one over 6 months ago when I applied for my extension.

[jacky54]

should be enforced to stop the abuse of the rules.

How can something be enforced that is not a rule, regulation or law. The only punishment allowed is the 20k baht max fine.

It can be enforced if a rule and not law, this is Thailand not a rational state. Eg the 'law' forbidding booze sales at certain times was a only rule until recently but widely enforced. The 20k fine and one your way has been far too often abused as witnessed by poster boasting about doing so on here many times.

[ScotBkk]

should be enforced to stop the abuse of the rules.

How can something be enforced that is not a rule, regulation or law. The only punishment allowed is the 20k baht max fine.

It can be enforced if a rule and not law, this is Thailand not a rational state. Eg the 'law' forbidding booze sales at certain times was a only rule until recently but widely enforced. The 20k fine and one your way has been far too often abused as witnessed by poster boasting about doing so on here many times.

Does it bother you? Do you have sleepless nights over it? Do you think it should become law to relieve your stress? Does it interfere with your sex life? Do you feel ashamed to be a Farang that does everything correct and above board in your current and past life? Do you think you should take up this loophole with the relevent authorities?

I'm not bothered myself and many people see this as an advantage if they come upon bad times and helps keep families together rather than being banned from the country. You need to get a grip with yourself not many have the same view as you my friend.

Live and Let Live !!!!

[ubonjoe]

A off topic and abusive post along with a reply to it has been removed. And one comment about moderation.

[thaibreaker]

The immigration laws are so lax here. In China over stay is equivalent to a five year ban and a penalty of 5000 yuan. I paid this in 2012 December. When I reported myself as an over stayer, the immigration said since I was there for 6 years as an illegal immigrant, they needed to investigate me for 1 to 2 months and they did for a month and a half before giving me a 10 day visa to leave China. Here, one can over stay, get a visa and go to a neighboring country, pay the penalty at the airport and get another visa to come back in as if nothing has happened. Very very easy and good here.

You reported yourself as an overstayer, paid the fine, and they gave you a 10 days visa to leave after a while?

And Thailand is the one having lax immigration laws?

Tell that to the tens of thousands of overstayers who have been thrown in jail at IDC for weeks, months and years, before they have to come up with a way to get out of there by themselves. I ensure you, that is no pleasant drive. If you are caught overstaying in Thailand, or turn yourself in any other places than at the border or airport on your way out of the country, you are arrested and treated almost like an animal. Believe me, been there, done that. It is simply not worth it. Definitely not.

Edited February 19, 2015 by thaibreaker

[ubonjoe]

The problem with the current overstay rule is the measly 20,000 baht fine. It only takes 40 days to get to it.

I think the best thing they could do is raise it. I think a 100,000 baht maximum fine might be a greater deterrent and have the fine by the day be incremental based upon the number of days. Perhaps for less than 30 days keep it at the current 500 baht a day and after that raise it to 1000 baht.

[thaibreaker]

The problem with the current overstay rule is the measly 20,000 baht fine. It only takes 40 days to get to it.

I think the best thing they could do is raise it. I think a 100,000 baht maximum fine might be a greater deterrent and have the fine by the day be incremental based upon the number of days. Perhaps for less than 30 days keep it at the current 500 baht a day and after that raise it to 1000 baht.

I agree with that. And a change of amount should be possible without a major approval by higher authority.

That would make people think twice about overstaying.

But at the same time, they should increase the fine set by the judge if caught too. A 3000 bath fine, and a few days of uncomfort at the IDC, may unfortunately be seen as an option for some, and it shouldn`t. The gap between that and paying an eventual 100.000 bath fine will be too big.

On the other hand, it shouldn`t be impossible to get out of the IDC either, so the fine must still be low.

Definitely a good idea yes.

Edited February 19, 2015 by thaibreaker

[ubonjoe]

The problem with the current overstay rule is the measly 20,000 baht fine. It only takes 40 days to get to it.

I think the best thing they could do is raise it. I think a 100,000 baht maximum fine might be a greater deterrent and have the fine by the day be incremental based upon the number of days. Perhaps for less than 30 days keep it at the current 500 baht a day and after that raise it to 1000 baht.

I agree with that. And a change of amount should be possible without a major approval by higher authority.

That would make people think twice about overstaying.

But at the same time, they should increase the fine set by the judge if caught too. A 3000 bath fine, and a few days of uncomfort at the IDC, may unfortunately be seen as an option for some, and it shouldn`t. The gap between that and paying an eventual 100.000 bath fine will be too big.

On the other hand, it shouldn`t be impossible to get out of the IDC either, so the fine must still be low.

Definitely a good idea yes.

It would still require an amendment to the immigration act of 1979 is the problem. You would think it would not be that hard to do an amendment to update it but it has not been changed since it was written.

They could write in a minimum fine to prevent a judge from setting the fine to low.

[paz]

If the fine was set to have an high minimum, IDC would be full of poor people (we're not talking westerners) unable to pay, and that would unsustainable for the department of Immigration that runs the centers, even before the matter of human rights. The judges would have to fine accordingly to the person.

I think fines are discounted with detentions a 200 Bt a day. Suppose a common fine of Bt 5,000, that's 25 days and then the illegal immigrant from the region can be loaded on a locked bus and shipped home. But what do with an indigent foreigner fined Bt 100,000 ? 500 days in detentions then he become a liability if he can;t pay a plane ticket. I don't think the Thai gov.t is happy having the people that has been staying in IDC for years or wants to increase their number.

[thaibreaker]

If the fine was set to have an high minimum, IDC would be full of poor people (we're not talking westerners) unable to pay, and that would unsustainable for the department of Immigration that runs the centers, even before the matter of human rights. The judges would have to fine accordingly to the person.

I think fines are discounted with detentions a 200 Bt a day. Suppose a common fine of Bt 5,000, that's 25 days and then the illegal immigrant from the region can be loaded on a locked bus and shipped home. But what do with an indigent foreigner fined Bt 100,000 ? 500 days in detentions then he become a liability if he can;t pay a plane ticket. I don't think the Thai gov.t is happy having the people that has been staying in IDC for years or wants to increase their number.

I see your point. And an immidiate effect would be that more people can`t afford to pay their overstay, and have no other choice than to go along with it until caught upon. But an eventual new rule like this would be set in advance, for new overstayers only, I guess. To try to decrease the number of people who go on overstay in the first place.

A 100.000 bath fine at the immigration does of course not mean a 100.000 bath fine set by a judge at IDC. It will be much lower than that, if they change it at all. A 20.000 bath fine would may be appropriate.

If you are caught, and the fine is 10000 bath or 3000 bath for westerners, I don`t think that will make much difference in numbers staying there. A 20.000 bath fine maybe the same. Most people are not aware of the amount today anyway. A bigger fine may keep some people there longer, but the whole change could also mean fewer on overstay in the first place.

People usually get the help they need to get home, or they are further from it than that. And for citizens of neighboring countries, the amount can remain the same. These are usually people working at construction sites or people from Myanmar or Cambodia trying to make a living some other way.

Edited February 19, 2015 by thaibreaker

[ubonjoe]

If the fine was set to have an high minimum, IDC would be full of poor people (we're not talking westerners) unable to pay, and that would unsustainable for the department of Immigration that runs the centers, even before the matter of human rights. The judges would have to fine accordingly to the person.

I think fines are discounted with detentions a 200 Bt a day. Suppose a common fine of Bt 5,000, that's 25 days and then the illegal immigrant from the region can be loaded on a locked bus and shipped home. But what do with an indigent foreigner fined Bt 100,000 ? 500 days in detentions then he become a liability if he can;t pay a plane ticket. I don't think the Thai gov.t is happy having the people that has been staying in IDC for years or wants to increase their number.

The intent of the higher fine is to deter people from overstaying because the fine is so low now and is much less than a flight home for many people.

They could set the minimum at 20k baht which would be 100 days in detention.

Most people stuck in detention are there because they don't have the money for a flight home.

[HansIsaan]

If the fine was set to have an high minimum, IDC would be full of poor people (we're not talking westerners) unable to pay, and that would unsustainable for the department of Immigration that runs the centers, even before the matter of human rights. The judges would have to fine accordingly to the person.

I think fines are discounted with detentions a 200 Bt a day. Suppose a common fine of Bt 5,000, that's 25 days and then the illegal immigrant from the region can be loaded on a locked bus and shipped home. But what do with an indigent foreigner fined Bt 100,000 ? 500 days in detentions then he become a liability if he can;t pay a plane ticket. I don't think the Thai gov.t is happy having the people that has been staying in IDC for years or wants to increase their number.

The intent of the higher fine is to deter people from overstaying because the fine is so low now and is much less than a flight home for many people.

They could set the minimum at 20k baht which would be 100 days in detention.

Most people stuck in detention are there because they don't have the money for a flight home.

Sorry Joe, but didn't you just make the point to lower the fines?

Edited February 19, 2015 by HansIsaan

[ubonjoe]

If the fine was set to have an high minimum, IDC would be full of poor people (we're not talking westerners) unable to pay, and that would unsustainable for the department of Immigration that runs the centers, even before the matter of human rights. The judges would have to fine accordingly to the person.

I think fines are discounted with detentions a 200 Bt a day. Suppose a common fine of Bt 5,000, that's 25 days and then the illegal immigrant from the region can be loaded on a locked bus and shipped home. But what do with an indigent foreigner fined Bt 100,000 ? 500 days in detentions then he become a liability if he can;t pay a plane ticket. I don't think the Thai gov.t is happy having the people that has been staying in IDC for years or wants to increase their number.

The intent of the higher fine is to deter people from overstaying because the fine is so low now and is much less than a flight home for many people.

They could set the minimum at 20k baht which would be 100 days in detention.

Most people stuck in detention are there because they don't have the money for a flight home.

Sorry Joe, but didn't you just make the point to lower the fines?

That was part of a discussion about judges lowering the fine when a person is detained for an overstay. For example it would be a 100k baht max fine with a minimum of 20k baht that judge could lower it to,

[ExpatOilWorker]

I am the OP. Please close this thread.

[tif]

should be enforced to stop the abuse of the rules.

How can something be enforced that is not a rule, regulation or law. The only punishment allowed is the 20k baht max fine.

Jacky54 needs to go home. And take the rest of his idiot delusional chums with him.

[Suradit69]

Those rules proposed by immigration have never been approved by a higher authority and probably will never be. Immigration offices should of already stopped having people sign that acknowledgement.

This has been discussed many times already.

'Immigration offices should of [sic] already stopped having people sign that acknowledgement.

Signed the form in December when doing retirement extension at Jomtien.

Harsh Overstay Rules - Ever Enforced?

"Harsh" compared to what. I think in most countries you'd probably be detained and deported if found to be in the country illegally.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Suradit69

[bapoboy]

Those rules proposed by immigration have never been approved by a higher authority and probably will never be. Immigration offices should of already stopped having people sign that acknowledgement.

This has been discussed many times already.

'Immigration offices should of [sic] already stopped having people sign that acknowledgement.

Signed the form in December when doing retirement extension at Jomtien.

Harsh Overstay Rules - Ever Enforced?

"Harsh" compared to what. I think in most countries you'd probably be detained and deported if found to be in the country illegally.

Yes that's true, Thailand it's a free country, and that's why so many pepole love this place..

do thailand loose any money if pepole overstay, i have overstay before 1 month and i don't even know i overstay, i spend alot of money in this country, so i'm not sure they loose anything, i pay 15.000thb in fine on airport and they smile and i went home, never have any problem to come back here....

[jspill]

"Harsh" compared to what. I think in most countries you'd probably be detained and deported if found to be in the country illegally.

That refers to the proposed 1-10 year blacklisting obviously. Which could separate families. Detainment and deportation without blacklisting isn't harsh.

I am the OP. Please close this thread.

The thread is excellent and on point, all moderators and veteran posters, only troll posts were deleted. You don't get to decide when the thread closes.

Edited February 19, 2015 by jspill