Question for the Brits

[CaptHaddock]

My wife has both Thai and US passports. We are planning to visit the UK. Will she be able to exit Thailand on her Thai passport and enter the UK on her US passport? I ask because although she routinely does this when traveling to the US, she was recently unable to do so traveling to Laos. If she can do this going to London she will not have to get a visa as a Thai citizen. Needless to say, she cannot exit Thailand on her US passport since she has no visa or entry stamp in that passport never having used it to enter Thailand.

A pointer to the relevant regulation would be appreciated.

[Briggsy]

What passport did she enter Thailand on? She should exit Thailand on the same passport.

She can enter the UK on her US passport.

https://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/usa/tourism

Does she plan to illegally work in the UK? Might the immigration officer believe this is the case? She should also take supporting documents, such as onward travel plans and details of finances if the answer to either of the two questions is 'Yes'.

[CaptHaddock]

Thanks, no work, legal or otherwise. Just tourists. Thanks for the link, also, but it is only general and does not cover the specific case of "switching passports in flight" (terminology of Bangkok Air rep.)

[Eff1n2ret]

Thanks, no work, legal or otherwise. Just tourists. Thanks for the link, also, but it is only general and does not cover the specific case of "switching passports in flight" (terminology of Bangkok Air rep.)

I don't think you'll find anything in the Immigration Rules or UK Statutes that specifically allows for or forbids what you call "switching passports". The UK treats dual nationals in the same way as the US, and when seeking entry to the UK as a visitor holding a US passport, she will probably only need to answer a couple of questions about the duration and purpose of her visit, particularly if you're travelling as a couple.

If you've already travelled between Thailand and the US, you probably don't need telling that at checkin, the airline will want to see the US passport (which should have the same name as her ticket), as they need to be assured of her right to travel to the UK without a visa. Then at the BKK departures immigration desk she should show her Thai passport.

[Derek M]

US Citizens do not require a visa to visit the UK as a tourist? or did I miss something? non schengen visa?

[CaptHaddock]

US Citizens do not require a visa to visit the UK as a tourist? or did I miss something? non schengen visa?

US citizens do not need a visa to visit the UK as a tourist. See the link above.

[skatewash]

A good explanation of the process of traveling with two passports: http://www.stylehiclub.com/cruising-flying/step-step-guide-to-traveling-with-two-passports/

Generally, use the native passport (or passport that will get you the favored treatment, e.g., one for which a visa is not required) of the country you are in whenever dealing with officials of that country. The exception to this is that you need to show airlines (when booking and at the airport) the passport of the destination country to demonstrate your right to travel to that country.

You will have an easier time if you only ever show one passport to any particular entity. Possessing two passports, while certainly legal, is an anomaly and you generally don't want to be an anomaly when dealing with officials of any sort, so don't show both passports to them.

Also, remember you always want to leave a country with the same passport with which you entered the country.

[skatewash]

Thanks, no work, legal or otherwise. Just tourists. Thanks for the link, also, but it is only general and does not cover the specific case of "switching passports in flight" (terminology of Bangkok Air rep.)

The general rule is that you must leave a country on the passport you used to enter the country. If you have two passports you are at liberty to switch passports while between countries (say on an airplane, for example).

It's actually one of those things that is simpler in practice than it is to explain in theory.

In your specific case, she should leave Thailand on her Thai passport. Enter UK on her US passport. Leave UK on her US passport. Enter Thailand on her Thai passport.

This way she uses the same passport to leave each country that she used to enter it, so entirely legal to do so. Plus she enjoys the beneficial treatment of being treated as a US citizen (rather than Thai) while in the UK, and the same beneficial treatment of being treated as a Thai citizen (rather than US) in Thailand.

Now, to book the airline ticket in Thailand to go to the UK she should be using her US passport (the passport on which she intends to enter the UK). Likewise she should show airline personnel at check in for the UK flight her US passport (the passport on which she intends to enter the UK).

For the return back to Thailand from the UK, she should show the airline personnel in the UK her Thai passport, since that is the one on which she intends to enter Thailand. Airlines are concerned with knowing that when they deliver this passenger to her desired destination she will be welcomed with open arms (and not forced to return to where the flight originated possibly at the airline's expense).

Best to avoid showing anyone that you possess two passports. Use one at a time. Showing anyone you have two passports just raises questions and concerns that don't need to be raised in the first place.

[CaptHaddock]

My question was whether anyone has any specific information about whether Britain allows a visitor to "switch passports in flight" as described above, not about general use of two passports.

The answer to my question is: no, no one here has any idea whether Britain permits it or not.

Edited March 15, 2015 by CaptHaddock

[skatewash]

My question was whether anyone has any specific information about whether Britain allows a visitor to "switch passports in flight" as described above, not about general use of two passports.

The answer to my question is: no, no one here has any idea whether Britain permits it or not.

OK, may I ask you a question then?

Your wife arrives in the UK, gets off the plane and presents her US passport to the first UK immigration official she meets. To the UK immigration official she is just a US citizen, who traveled to the UK from Thailand (having purchased her ticket using her US passport details while in Thailand). Isn't that right?

The UK immigration official will believe he is dealing with a US citizen, which your wife is in fact. The fact that your wife also happens to be a Thai citizen is of no importance to him at all. How would he even know she is Thai? The passport she presented to him is a US passport.

Yes, questions would arise if she were to show both passports to the UK immigration official. Questions would arise if she were to mention that she is a dual citizen (US and Thai). It would eventually get straightened out I'm sure, but why go through the rigmarole? She's simply a US citizen traveling to the UK from Thailand. End of story.

In my opinion, it's not about whether the UK allows a visitor to "switch passports in flight" but whether the UK allows a US citizen to enter the UK on a US passport when that US citizen happens to arrive on a plane from Thailand. How will the UK immigration official ever know that your wife "switched passports in flight?" The UK allows a US citizen to enter the UK without a visa if the US citizen presents a valid US passport. Your wife is that US citizen. The fact that she also carries a Thai passport in her purse is of no concern to anyone unless she tells them about it.

[CaptHaddock]

This is not a question that calls for reasoning from first principles. I was asking whether anyone had actual experience with attempting to switch passports in flight before arriving in Britain or not. The UK either permits this or does not. Laos does not. Laos permits a US citizen to enter the country, but not if she boarded the plane using another passport. Not principle is involved. It is not possible to reason out the answer. You either know what the British will permit or you don't. You don't.

Thanks anyway.

[arkom]

Like you wife I also have both Thai and U.S. passports and always use both when traveling. Left Thailand with Thai passport and entered Germany with US passport with no problems.

I am actually going to the UK in May and will be using my Thai passport to leave and U.S. passport to enter and know a lot of Thai's that also do this.

[skatewash]

This is not a question that calls for reasoning from first principles. I was asking whether anyone had actual experience with attempting to switch passports in flight before arriving in Britain or not. The UK either permits this or does not. Laos does not. Laos permits a US citizen to enter the country, but not if she boarded the plane using another passport. Not principle is involved. It is not possible to reason out the answer. You either know what the British will permit or you don't. You don't.

Thanks anyway.

The reason your wife couldn't enter Laos as a US citizen is because she didn't board the plane using her US passport. Had she done so she would have had no problem entering Laos as a US citizen.

Step 3: Check in at the Airport

Authority:

Airline

Passport to Show: The One You’ll Use at Your Destination

Here we do the same thing as step two. We show the airline the passport we plan to use when we reach our destination country. It doesn’t matter if that passport does not allow you to be in the country you are departing from. That is not their concern.

Example: Michael checks in to his flight in the USA using his Italian passport.

Different countries don't have different rules about this. If you show the proper passport at the proper time it works. If you don't, it doesn't.

[CaptHaddock]

This is not a question that calls for reasoning from first principles. I was asking whether anyone had actual experience with attempting to switch passports in flight before arriving in Britain or not. The UK either permits this or does not. Laos does not. Laos permits a US citizen to enter the country, but not if she boarded the plane using another passport. Not principle is involved. It is not possible to reason out the answer. You either know what the British will permit or you don't. You don't.

Thanks anyway.

The reason your wife couldn't enter Laos as a US citizen is because she didn't board the plane using her US passport. Had she done so she would have had no problem entering Laos as a US citizen.

Step 3: Check in at the Airport

Authority:

Airline

Passport to Show: The One You’ll Use at Your Destination

Here we do the same thing as step two. We show the airline the passport we plan to use when we reach our destination country. It doesn’t matter if that passport does not allow you to be in the country you are departing from. That is not their concern.

Example: Michael checks in to his flight in the USA using his Italian passport.

Different countries don't have different rules about this. If you show the proper passport at the proper time it works. If you don't, it doesn't.

It's true that had my wife boarded the plan in BKK using her US passport she would have been able to enter Laos without a problem as indeed I pointed out in my first post. She could not do that because she had not entered Thailand using her US passport and so had neither a visa not an entry stamp in the US passport permitting her to enter Thailand legally. She could not board the plane using her Thai passport because that passport was due to expire in five months and Laos will not permit you to enter unless your passport is good for at least six months. Hence the question, could she exit Thailand using her Thai passport and enter Laos using her American passport. The airline told us that Laos would not permit her to "switch passports in flight" and she would be refused entry to Laos. Therefore, the airline refused to let her board the plane and her fare was not refunded. This, even though other countries do permit "switching passports in flight."

So, different countries very much DO have different rules about this despite the general descriptions you find on the internet and despite your evidently unshakeable belief that what google provides is complete and irrefutable knowledge about the world.

You might want to brush up those reading comprehension skills a bit.

[CaptHaddock]

Like you wife I also have both Thai and U.S. passports and always use both when traveling. Left Thailand with Thai passport and entered Germany with US passport with no problems.

I am actually going to the UK in May and will be using my Thai passport to leave and U.S. passport to enter and know a lot of Thai's that also do this.

Thanks very much Arkom for your straightforward answer to my question!

[skatewash]

Dear Captain, you seem to be fixated on the notion that you need to "switch passports in flight," when in fact that erroneous understanding is what is causing your problem, and is directly contrary to the advice I referenced in reply #7.

During the departure process in Thailand (and also every other country in the world) there are two groups of authorities you need to satisfy.

1) Airline personnel who are only interested in whether you are allowed to go where you want to go, but could care less about how you got to where you are now. In your case, they want to know your wife will be allowed to enter the UK on her US passport. The way you ensure that is to purchase the air tickets using the details of her US credentials, check-in at the airport with her US passport, and when boarding the plane show her US passport. As far as the airline is concerned she is a US citizen traveling from Thailand on their aircraft to the UK, pure and simple. The airline personnel have no need to know your wife is also a Thai citizen, to them she is merely a US citizen. She purchased her ticket referencing her US passport, checked-in with US passport, boarded plane with US passport. She will get off the plane in the UK showing people there her US passport.

You will notice that there is no "switch passports in flight" in this scenario. During this process her Thai passport remains safely ensconced in her purse. There is no reason to show it to any airline personnel. It is enough for them to know that she is a US citizen traveling on a US passport, which is, of course, the only passport she should show them. Yes, she is coming from Thailand, but guess what, Americans have been known to travel to Thailand, and it's not unheard of them to travel from Thailand to the UK. Happens all the time.

2) The second group of interest are the government immigration officials. In your case, they are Thai. Their concern is that the person before them (your wife) is leaving the country (Thailand) using the same passport she used to enter it (namely, her Thai passport). She shows them her Thai passport because she is a Thai citizen leaving Thailand. The fact that she is also a US citizen is immaterial, and as such doesn't enter the discussion. Thais are allowed to exit Thailand to travel to other countries. Happens all the time. You may notice that the government immigration officials are not terribly interested in where she's going, just that she was allowed to be where she is now (in Thailand) and that she is properly leaving the country using the same passport she used when entering the country (i.e., her Thai passport).

So, not only does you wife not need to "switch passports in flight," she doesn't even need to "switch passports in Thailand." She leaves Thailand as a Thai citizen using her Thai passport, which is the same passport she used to enter Thailand. There has been no switch, all is copacetic.

It is all explained in this link (much better than I can): http://www.stylehiclub.com/cruising-flying/step-step-guide-to-traveling-with-two-passports/

You seem to want someone to say, "yes this works, I did exactly this when going from Thailand to the UK last Wednesday" without apparently realizing that isn't really the issue and not going to help you (or your wife) very much. Of interest isn't that it works, of interest is how it works. Of course it works. The problem is that you have to do it correctly. The devil, they say, is in the details. Show the proper passport to the proper authorities at the proper time. The link referenced above explains how to do it correctly. I've endeavored (apparently unsuccessfully, I might add) to explain how to do it in your particular case.

The example you cite about your wife traveling to Laos shows the importance of doing it right. She should have purchased a ticket to Laos using her US credentials, checked in at the airport using her US passport, boarded the plane showing her US passport, and she would have been recognized on arrival in Laos as what she legitimately is, a US citizen. But she didn't do that and so it shouldn't be surprising it didn't work. Unfortunately, the erroneous lesson you learned from that experience is that countries and airlines have different rules and you must know the rules a particular country has for this to work. That is simply a misapprehension.

Now, I must go off to work on my reading comprehension (thank you for the reminder). Your wife must be a very patient soul indeed. Bless you both, and hope you have a very enjoyable and stress-free trip to the UK.

[Colonel Klink]

I cannot point you to a specific regulation and doubt there is one, but I do this all the time; enter Thailand on one passport and go from Thailand to UK on another.

[CaptHaddock]

Skate,

I was pleased to finish reading the first paragraph of your last post since I realized that it is the last paragraph of your I will ever read.

You might try out your friend google on "Dunning Krueger effect."

Best of luck in all your future endeavors.

[Thongkorn]

If she uses her Thai passport to go to the UK , From Thailand it must have a Visa stamp in it or they will not let her board the plane.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Thongkorn

[JimGant]

Skate's links are interesting, but I don't agree with all their conclusions:

Check in at the Airport

Passport to Show: The One You’ll Use at Your Destination
Here we do the same thing as step two. We show the airline the passport we plan to use when we reach our destination country. It doesn’t matter if that passport does not allow you to be in the country you are departing from. That is not their concern.
Example: Michael checks in to his flight in the USA using his Italian passport.

The wife (dual US/Thai), when heading to Thailand, always checks in at US airports with her US passport. Why? Because the reservation was made using her US passport info, and subsequent tracking info used by Immigration is also tied to her US passport. There is no record of her Thai passport anywhere in the US system, which is as it should be. Yes, sometimes the airline asks about why no Visa -- then she produces her Thai passport.

So, the guidance above would be wrong when departing the US.

Departing Thailand? Yes, make the reservation with the US passport, and show that when checking-in with the airline. Only Immigration will need to see the Thai passport. (The airline doesn't care that there is no Thai Immigration stamp in the passport, which if they did, could easily be explained by showing the Thai passport.)

I'm sure you'll have a great vacation in the UK. Let us know if UK Immigration had any curiosity at all about no Thai departure stamp in her US passport (not a show stopper, of course, with a dual citizen explanation). Just wonder how sharp they are.

Edited March 17, 2015 by JimGant

[maprao]

To the poster who asked. Yes Britain allows you to change passports in the air. I do it all the time

[chaam]

The airline is the problem. Your wife will be allowed to enter the UK, no problem on her US Passport. All immigration are concerned with is that you have a valid document to travel, i.e her passport.

My wife was travelling from London - BKK. She has dual nationality, Thai/British but had never used both passports before. At check in at Heathrow they asked for her passport, so she produced her British passport. Because we were going for to Thailand for over 30 days they asked her where her tourist visa was in the British passport, which you need for stays in excess of 30 days. My wife explained that she didn't need a visa because she had her Thai passport and would be using this to enter Thailand. The airline stated that you must enter at the destination airport using the same passport you checked in with as the passport number is linked to your booking/ticket. My wife was made to check in using her Thai passport, which we weren't happy about but were left with no other option.

Whilst we were in departures I contacted the UK Border Agency/immigration at Heathrow from an internal phone in departures. I explained the situation to them and they were quite happy for my wife to use her passports as she had planned to but went on to say that they have no control over the airlines policy.

On the return journey from Bangkok, my wife departed using her Thai passport and entered the UK on her British passport,no problem.

[Eff1n2ret]

Skate's links are interesting, but I don't agree with all their conclusions:

Check in at the Airport

Passport to Show: The One You’ll Use at Your Destination

Here we do the same thing as step two. We show the airline the passport we plan to use when we reach our destination country. It doesn’t matter if that passport does not allow you to be in the country you are departing from. That is not their concern.

Example: Michael checks in to his flight in the USA using his Italian passport.

The wife (dual US/Thai), when heading to Thailand, always checks in at US airports with her US passport. Why? Because the reservation was made using her US passport info, and subsequent tracking info used by Immigration is also tied to her US passport. There is no record of her Thai passport anywhere in the US system, which is as it should be. Yes, sometimes the airline asks about why no Visa -- then she produces her Thai passport.

So, the guidance above would be wrong when departing the US.

Departing Thailand? Yes, make the reservation with the US passport, and show that when checking-in with the airline. Only Immigration will need to see the Thai passport. (The airline doesn't care that there is no Thai Immigration stamp in the passport, which if they did, could easily be explained by showing the Thai passport.)

I'm sure you'll have a great vacation in the UK. Let us know if UK Immigration had any curiosity at all about no Thai departure stamp in her US passport (not a show stopper, of course, with a dual citizen explanation). Just wonder how sharp they are.

I completely agree with all that . My missis has her married surname in her UK passport but has her Thai passport in her original Thai surname. She always presents her UK passport at airline check-in, whether travelling BKK-LHR or LHR-BKK, because the airline requires the passport to carry the same name as the ticket. I think that once or twice at LHR the airline have asked about her status in Thailand, so she shows her Thai passport and there's never been the problem alleged by Chaam.

The OP seems to think we're all know-nothings because nobody can tell him whether UK regulations specifically permit or forbid what he calls "switching passports". He may search from now till Doomsday for any regulation on the subject, because there isn't one. It is a simple principle of English law that whatever is not specifically forbidden is allowed.

[skatewash]

Skate's links are interesting, but I don't agree with all their conclusions:

Check in at the Airport

Passport to Show: The One You’ll Use at Your Destination

Here we do the same thing as step two. We show the airline the passport we plan to use when we reach our destination country. It doesn’t matter if that passport does not allow you to be in the country you are departing from. That is not their concern.

Example: Michael checks in to his flight in the USA using his Italian passport.

The wife (dual US/Thai), when heading to Thailand, always checks in at US airports with her US passport. Why? Because the reservation was made using her US passport info, and subsequent tracking info used by Immigration is also tied to her US passport. There is no record of her Thai passport anywhere in the US system, which is as it should be. Yes, sometimes the airline asks about why no Visa -- then she produces her Thai passport.

So, the guidance above would be wrong when departing the US.

I don't believe the guidance is wrong. The part quoted is just one step (step 3 out of 8 steps at http://www.stylehiclub.com/cruising-flying/step-step-guide-to-traveling-with-two-passports/). Applying the general guidelines to the specific situation you reference, the advice would have been as follows, assuming a starting point in the US, a destination in Thailand, and a dual US/Thai citizen:

Step 1) The US would be identified as the home country and Thailand as the destination country.

Step 2) Traveler books a ticket to Thailand using her Thai passport details.

Step 3) Traveler checks in at the US airport using her Thai passport.

Step 4) Traveler shows her US passport when departing US immigration at the airport.

Step 5) Traveler shows her Thai passport on arrival at immigration in Thailand.

Step 6, 7, and 8) are the reverse of 3, 4, and 5 with US and Thai reversed and cover the return trip from Thailand to the US (again, assuming the US is the traveler's home country as identified in Step 1.)

That's what the advice would have been, and I don't believe it is wrong. It's different then what you did and I'll concede that what you did worked as you say it did/does.

What you did does maintain consistent tracking information on the flight from the US to Thailand (bought ticket and checked in using her US passport credentials), which is an important requirement. However, it basically delivers the traveler to Thai immigration as a US citizen who traveled as a US citizen. The traveler then shows Thai immigration her Thai passport and presumably all is well. It seems to me the Thai immigration official could tell the traveler "you traveled on a US passport, but you are entering Thailand on a Thai passport, so you have both passports, is that right?" Now, I'm not saying the issue wouldn't be easy to resolve by the traveler merely showing the immigration official that, yes, she does in fact have both passports. But personally, I would not like to run into an immigration officer who doesn't know that that's perfectly OK, has to think about it some, perhaps wants to check with a supervisor.

Again, I'm not saying you did anything wrong or illegal in the slightest. Just that you expose the traveler to questions and concerns (all readily resolved perhaps) that don't necessarily have to crop up at all.

The advice given from the referenced link on the other hand would have delivered the traveler to Thailand as a Thai citizen having traveled as a Thai citizen (that is, airline manifest information would have indicated that she was a Thai citizen if the immigration official cared to notice that). In other words, traveling per the advice given by the link the Thai immigration official would have no knowledge the traveler in question is a dual national citizen. Therefore, no possible questions would arise. She would present her Thai passport and sail through immigration.

Now, obviously what you did works, so I'm not in a position to say you shouldn't do it. If it works, do it. But I will point out that it has the potential to raise concerns and issues that can be completely avoided by doing it the way I'm recommending. Only the traveler has to know that they are a dual national, the immigration officials in each country don't have to know that. I'm for keeping things as simple as possible because sometimes even simple things don't work as smoothly as they are supposed to. When I go through immigration I want it to be run-of-the-mill, no hiccups, no drama. The recommended way of doing this helps make this outcome more likely in my opinion.

I think it's interesting to look at why the way you presented does work in this case. It's sort of a special case: you have a Thai national returning to her home country. In other words, even though technically (according to the airline manifest) she arrives as a US citizen, once there Thai immigration officials don't question this as long as she can show a Thai passport. So in a sense they let it slide, don't make an issue of it. I've heard, but don't know for sure, that a Thai citizen can even gain entry into Thailand on an expired passport. I think it's the case that Thai immigration officials might cut some slack for someone who can prove they are Thai citizen.

I would like to contrast this scenario with the one raised in the OP. That is, a dual national who is visiting a third-country: US-Thai national visiting the UK. In that scenario I think it is critical that the traveler travel from Thailand to the UK as a US citizen so as to qualify for the favorable treatment US citizens are afforded as compared to Thai citizens.

The guideline recommendations referenced above were created to work in all situations, when the traveler is traveling back to one of her own countries, but also when she is traveling to a third (non-home) country. It also works in the case of a traveler traveling back and forth between her home countries, but I'm willing to concede it might not be absolutely necessary in this special case (other ways may work, as you point out in your example). However, I do believe the recommended guidelines preclude possible concerns being raised and associated delays and is therefore a preferable way of going about it.

[JimGant]

Whatever.