Riding Laws for Larger Cycles

[seedy]

I detect this topic going the way of the one yesterday.

Any Troll / Flaming will result in immediate suspension.

[Gweiloman]

We have discussed this several times. And even we werent able to agree on what kind of bikes should be allowed on tollways. Over 250cc and above? Too many bikes then. 400cc and above? Still too many. Over 600cc? Why 600cc, a 150cc can go fast enough too. Some even said only 800cc and above. Of course mostly owners of such bikes.

Making such privilege for expensive big bikes would raise a lot of anger from poor people. Hard to accept that the rich can ride their expensive bikes for weekend fun on tollways while the working class people have to stay on crowded streets just because their bikes lack a few cc. And so on and on...

There are more important issues in Thailand to solve imo. But they should get rid of this left lane nonsense. And allow bikes on flyovers/bridges. That would be a good start imo. But all in all i can not complain. I had a lot more trouble in my homecountry with traffic police and traffic rules.

Do you really believe what you are posting? Or are you just taking the (DELETED)?

Not sure where you ride but I doubt if you actually are riding in those parts of Thailand that actually has tollways - you know, like in and around Bangkok?

For a biker, there is very little (if any) difference between the road and traffic conditions on a tollway as opposed to a highway / expressway without tolls. The same vehicles (cars, pickups, SUV's, trucks, lorries) traverse these roads. A particular section may be designated a tollway - that only means that there is a toll charge. There is nothing different on these tollways compared to normal highways. Vehicles the same, drivers the same, road conditions the same.

I can understand why some elevated roads and bridges are closed to bikers. The consequence of an accident on such roads will be much higher. Fair enough. To disallow bikes from underpasses is totally ridiculous and symptomatic of Thainess.

Gweilo, i remember there once was a time it was possible to do a discussion with you. It always was difficult but nowadays all you want to do is lecturing and spreading doubts about other posters integrity. And i can see absolutely no relation to the content of my post in your comment.

As i said we already have discussed this topic several times. And its clear that it is a "hot iron" for all "real bikers with big bikes". But things are as they are. If its important for you and you want to change something, than do something other than writing angry posts to people who think its less important. For example make a banner "Free tollways for free bikers", put it on your bike and ride it so people can see it. Or contact ll2, he wanted to contact all important people to make a change happen. Forum talk rarely changes the world.

I'm more than happy to discuss such topics to the death because in Thailand, that's all we can do. We will never be able to influence any law changes.

Your original post doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. First of all, there must be a reason (rightly or wrongly) as to why bikes are not allowed on tollways in Thailand whereas they are in most other countries. I don't know what the reason is and I doubt any poster knows for sure either. So by deductive reasoning, it would seem to be that it was deemed dangerous for the bikes as they can't keep up with the flow of traffic. If that was indeed the reason, obviously it's not valid for bikes that are able to keep up and even travel quicker than the normal flow of traffic.

(DELETED)

You then go on to say that making such privilege for expensive big bikes would raise a lot of anger from poor people. No offence but this is rubbish. Road traffic laws are there for road safety purposes (in most countries and even occasionally in Thailand) - not to pander to rich people. A high class apartment has one or more swimming pools, gym, sauna etc. Does this raise anger from those who can't afford it?

You said it yourself - while the working class people have to stay on crowded streets - so the solution is to also drive more powerful bikes onto these crowded streets, crowding it more? From a safety perspective, would you say that it's safer for a powerful bike to be on the frontage road as opposed to the main road?

You feel that it's bikes should be allowed on flyovers/bridges. I don't disagree. But I did put up a reason why it can be dangerous. I would even venture that it's more dangerous on a flyover / bridge than on a toll way (not talking about the DM tollway because this is a dangerous road in the first instance).

(DELETED)

Edited March 11, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[Gweiloman]

Maybe there are some safe tollroads, but all the ones I have been on were not somewhere I would ride a bike of any capacity.

I'm curious as to what you consider safe and unsafe tollroads and how this differs from non tolled highways and expressways. After all, the vehicles and drivers are the same. Regardless of speed limits, the drivers are still driving the same speeds be it on a tollway or not. Or do you think that Thai drivers drive one way on a section of a highway that is tolled and drive differently on those sections (of the same highway) that are not tolled?

Well the last time I was on a toll road it was pitch dark and very busy, headlights all over the place, trucks chasing cars driving at 140-160kph, weaving all over the place, overtaking on both sides, tailgating big time, the lot. I was so glad I was in my big truck where at least these nutters gave me a passing glance, in case they scratched their own vehicles, but even that was a token gesture. Who was drunk, who was on yaba, god only knows, who could even drive?

Now some of you guys are probably pretty good riders, others just think they are, others are not competent at all and most (DELETED) don't even have a bloody license....and you want to put this lot on these roads? Perhaps you think Thai roads are not dangerous enough?

There are no motorway patrols to police any of this, they are all static busy collecting bribe money and will chase no one, as it is too much trouble.

This equality thing is a bit of idealism really, they are not the same, but they are already equal, with a bike you can already cut through traffic jams, so leave the tollroads to the big boys and enjoy the B roads.

So in reality, no different from any other major road in Bangkok, highway or toll or otherwise.

You mentioned that you were driving on a pitch black tollway. I could be wrong but as far as I can remember, all the tollways that I have been on are fairly well lit - Hwy 7 between Suvanarbhumi and Pattaya, Hwy 9 Bang Pa In / Kanchanaphisek and so on.

Most riders tend not to ride in the dark due to unpredictable road conditions but if I had to travel between Bkk and Pattaya at night, I reckon I would be a lot safer on Hwy 7 which is well lit as opposed to the frontage road of Bang Na Trat.

Not sure where you live or do most of your riding but I doubt it is Bangkok or you wouldn't tell us to enjoy the B roads because B roads in Bkk are very unlike those in the North.

[wantan]

I'm more than happy to discuss such topics to the death because in Thailand, that's all we can do. We will never be able to influence any law changes.

Your original post doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. First of all, there must be a reason (rightly or wrongly) as to why bikes are not allowed on tollways in Thailand whereas they are in most other countries. I don't know what the reason is and I doubt any poster knows for sure either. So by deductive reasoning, it would seem to be that it was deemed dangerous for the bikes as they can't keep up with the flow of traffic. If that was indeed the reason, obviously it's not valid for bikes that are able to keep up and even travel quicker than the normal flow of traffic.

You also said "Some even said only 800cc and above. Of course mostly owners of such bikes". This is obviously a dig at owners of such bikes and really pulled your post down.

You then go on to say that making such privilege for expensive big bikes would raise a lot of anger from poor people. No offence but this is rubbish. Road traffic laws are there for road safety purposes (in most countries and even occasionally in Thailand) - not to pander to rich people. A high class apartment has one or more swimming pools, gym, sauna etc. Does this raise anger from those who can't afford it?

You said it yourself - while the working class people have to stay on crowded streets - so the solution is to also drive more powerful bikes onto these crowded streets, crowding it more? From a safety perspective, would you say that it's safer for a powerful bike to be on the frontage road as opposed to the main road?

You feel that it's bikes should be allowed on flyovers/bridges. I don't disagree. But I did put up a reason why it can be dangerous. I would even venture that it's more dangerous on a flyover / bridge than on a toll way (not talking about the DM tollway because this is a dangerous road in the first instance).

(DELETED)

You quoted my post, so i responded. This doesnt mean i want to discuss the thing "to death" with you. As i said, imo its not so important. But please do not put words and/or intentions into my mouth.

(DELETED)

No, this is no "dig". Thats a fact. You can search for the older threads and read all about it if you dont believe.

You use very vague terms like "safety" and "powerful bikes" and you use them as if they were hard facts. Its just a claim of you and some others that high cc bikes on toll roads would be safer than low cc bikes. If people would stick to traffic laws (and that should be the base for any discussions) then a 150cc bike would be as safe as a 1000cc bike. Some even would say a low cc bike would be safer, because less risk the rider starts racing on public streets.

If people not stick to traffic laws, well then its just chaos and we all should better drive a tank or at least a SUV or stay at home.

And if you dont want to consider the power of political movements and the difficult time Thailand is in at the moment - what can i say, seems we are very different in our way of thinking about problems and their solutions.

Edited March 11, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[AllanB]

Maybe there are some safe tollroads, but all the ones I have been on were not somewhere I would ride a bike of any capacity.

I'm curious as to what you consider safe and unsafe tollroads and how this differs from non tolled highways and expressways. After all, the vehicles and drivers are the same. Regardless of speed limits, the drivers are still driving the same speeds be it on a tollway or not. Or do you think that Thai drivers drive one way on a section of a highway that is tolled and drive differently on those sections (of the same highway) that are not tolled?

Well the last time I was on a toll road it was pitch dark and very busy, headlights all over the place, trucks chasing cars driving at 140-160kph, weaving all over the place, overtaking on both sides, tailgating big time, the lot. I was so glad I was in my big truck where at least these nutters gave me a passing glance, in case they scratched their own vehicles, but even that was a token gesture. Who was drunk, who was on yaba, god only knows, who could even drive?

Now some of you guys are probably pretty good riders, others just think they are, others are not competent at all and most (DELETED) don't even have a bloody license....and you want to put this lot on these roads? Perhaps you think Thai roads are not dangerous enough?

There are no motorway patrols to police any of this, they are all static busy collecting bribe money and will chase no one, as it is too much trouble.

This equality thing is a bit of idealism really, they are not the same, but they are already equal, with a bike you can already cut through traffic jams, so leave the tollroads to the big boys and enjoy the B roads.

So in reality, no different from any other major road in Bangkok, highway or toll or otherwise.

You mentioned that you were driving on a pitch black tollway. I could be wrong but as far as I can remember, all the tollways that I have been on are fairly well lit - Hwy 7 between Suvanarbhumi and Pattaya, Hwy 9 Bang Pa In / Kanchanaphisek and so on.

Most riders tend not to ride in the dark due to unpredictable road conditions but if I had to travel between Bkk and Pattaya at night, I reckon I would be a lot safer on Hwy 7 which is well lit as opposed to the frontage road of Bang Na Trat.

Not sure where you live or do most of your riding but I doubt it is Bangkok or you wouldn't tell us to enjoy the B roads because B roads in Bkk are very unlike those in the North.

Living in the North East, I haven't driven on many tollways, but when I have they seem to be driving a lot faster than none toll roads and far more wildly. You pay money to get on faster, was my guess and this one was fast and it was dark.

As I have said bikes can get through traffic, so IMO leave these roads to the cars and trucks.....but as I say I live in Isaan, where there aren't any.

So, I will but out of this one and leave it to the guys who ride them regularly to debate.

[wantan]

^

> So, I will but out of this one and leave it to the guys who ride them regularly to debate.

Sad thing is that we are NOT allowed riding them! Yes bikes can go through traffic a lot easier than cars, but have you ever ridden from one end of Bangkok to the other? At the end you are finished and not able to ride any further, at least i am

But i doubt they will change traffic laws now. It would be wiser to first reduce the daily traffic chaos and anarchy on public streets before risking to make it worser. For sure noone wants speeding big bikes going +250kmh between already speeding cars...

[H1w4yR1da]

Sad thing is that we are NOT allowed riding them! Yes bikes can go through traffic a lot easier than cars, but have you ever ridden from one end of Bangkok to the other? At the end you are finished and not able to ride any further, at least i am

I have ridden 'from one end of Bangkok to the other' numerous times. Usually for service work on the bike or returninf from a long trip and yes, it's not a pleasant experience. But may I suggest that if a ride like that 'finishes' you, you're not very bike fit.

Riding regularly, especially on a big bike, builds up muscles you need to handle the ride as well as stamina.

I live far south Bangkok, bordering Samut Prakan and have often ridden across Bangkok after returning from lengthy rides up country.

A ride back from say Buriram, past Saraburi, Rangsit etc. of around 4 hours and then having to face a journey through the length of Bangkok to get home does tire you.

But nowhere near 'finished'

[H1w4yR1da]

You quoted my post, so i responded. This doesnt mean i want to discuss the thing "to death" with you. As i said, imo its not so important. But please do not put words and/or intentions into my mouth.

Errr, he didn't put any words into your mouth. He said 'HE' could discuss the thing to the death.

I can't see anything he wrote that implied you intended to do as such. A little paranoid, methinks.

If people would stick to traffic laws (and that should be the base for any discussions) then a 150cc bike would be as safe as a 1000cc bike. Some even would say a low cc bike would be safer, because less risk the rider starts racing on public streets.

Rubbish! When the traffic laws include such nuggets as bikes having to stay in the left lane etc. then IMO they're not all to be taken seriously. I'd rather break the law than place myself in a dangerous situation. Which is exactly what the left lane is for bikes.

As to your comment about 1000cc bikes being more inclined to race on public streets than low cc bikes, I got to admit, I had a bit of a laugh. It just shows your inexperience.

How long have you been here? Have you seen the Dek Wan with their skooies on their scooters racing in their hundreds on major highways?

In all my years riding big bikes in LOS, I've yet to see superbikes racing on public streets. Going fast? Yes. Racing? No.

Larger bikes have the power to get out of a negative situation that smaller cc bikes would just have to accept. Also riders of larger bikes are mostly geared up. Many scooter riders here don't even like to wear a helmet.

And you obviously have never ridden a big bike or with big bikes.

(DELETED)

Edited March 12, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[H1w4yR1da]

No I'm a fat old <deleted> as well.

Unfortunstely, the GSXR doesn't help the gut at all. Good for upper body strength though.

But as you seem a little defensive, i'll leave off.

[Gweiloman]

You quoted my post, so i responded. This doesnt mean i want to discuss the thing "to death" with you. As i said, imo its not so important. But please do not put words and/or intentions into my mouth.

(DELETED)

No, this is no "dig". Thats a fact. You can search for the older threads and read all about it if you dont believe.

You use very vague terms like "safety" and "powerful bikes" and you use them as if they were hard facts. Its just a claim of you and some others that high cc bikes on toll roads would be safer than low cc bikes. If people would stick to traffic laws (and that should be the base for any discussions) then a 150cc bike would be as safe as a 1000cc bike. Some even would say a low cc bike would be safer, because less risk the rider starts racing on public streets.

If people not stick to traffic laws, well then its just chaos and we all should better drive a tank or at least a SUV or stay at home.

And if you dont want to consider the power of political movements and the difficult time Thailand is in at the moment - what can i say, seems we are very different in our way of thinking about problems and their solutions.

"Some even would say a low cc bike would be safer, because less risk the rider starts racing on public streets."

Yes, some would............

"If people not stick to traffic laws, well then its just chaos and we all should better drive a tank or at least a SUV or stay at home."

I see. Glad to hear that traffic laws in Thailand are being strictly adhered to .........

"And if you dont want to consider the power of political movements and the difficult time Thailand is in at the moment"

I didn't realise that the political situation in Thailand today is having such an impact on traffic laws. One does learn something new everyday

[Shurup]

No, it's an interesting topic, unfortunately not many posters left on this forum worthy of any discussion. Those who don't see the flaws in current bike laws (including all of the: left lane, tollways and under/overpass) aren't real riders or very narrow minded. While it can be argued that overpass carries some potential dangers for the bike riders, the remaining 3 don't. No logic can explain why these laws are still in effect in modern Thailand other than laziness or some hidden agenda (tea money).

Besides,

Edited March 12, 2015 by seedy
off topic

[DILLIGAD]

Maybe many live/ride in areas without tollways/ over&underpasses so it's not a first-hand regular problem?

[wantan]

No, it's an interesting topic, unfortunately not many posters left on this forum worthy of any discussion. Those who don't see the flaws in current bike laws (including all of the: left lane, tollways and under/overpass) aren't real riders or very narrow minded. While it can be argued that overpass carries some potential dangers for the bike riders, the remaining 3 don't. No logic can explain why these laws are still in effect in modern Thailand other than laziness or some hidden agenda (tea money).

Besides,

Yes there is a complott against big bikes driven by tea money and laziness. Some rich guys with Porsche and Ferrari pay for having the tollways on their own

I did not reply to HR as his post was too complicated for me to respond. I still try to get all the fine details of what he wrote. For such easy (but valid) points like yours i am always good for a reply.

You seem to have missed my post where i stated that i dont like the bike ban on tollways either. But i have learned to accept some limitations when living in a civilisation. You talk about "a modern Thailand". Imo there is still a long way to go till we reach that, at least in my interpretation of the term. Imo we are not even on the way now. They are still fighting (and some still disagree) about people having to stop at red lights and wearing a helmet and stick to speed limits and and and...

In an other thread about this i said that in germany you are allowed to use the Autobahn with a 100cc bike. Even less is allowed. And these are streets were one can go 300kmh legally. So in Thailand, where the speed limit is - i dont know the number, sorry - a 150cc bike should not be allowed? Is this the modern Thailand you talk about? Where high cc bikes have to fight on the streets to not be killed by speeding cars? Where guys like you say its safer to go faster than the average traffic? Where will this end if everyone is going faster than the others "for safety reasons"? I dont believe in this and i dont believe the guys making statements about how much safer big bikes are. Does this make me a "not real biker"? I dont care, i dont live my life to fit in such role

[cromagnon]

Being the original poster of this thread, it's sad to see what it's deteriorated into. One guy even threw politics into it, somehow claiming that allowing larger cc cycles onto tollways and onto the right lane would pit the "haves" against the "have-nots". Another takes offense to the word "biker" as used by Americans for avid motorcycle enthusiasts. This is pathetic.

After reading all the posts here, there is at least one guy who gets it and obviously rides cycles in Thailand enough to know what he's talking about. Gweiloman. My advice to you, sir, is not to waste your time going back and forth with individuals who post useless and flawed material. We ride large cycles, and we ride them in the real world, not some fantasy theoretical world.

One guy doesn't know why Thais don't separate larger cc cycles from smaller, and claims we can't know. Well, we can give it an educated guess. Thais realize that smaller cc cycles make up the VAST majority of cycles on the road; therefore their laws, in their mind, will be good enough because they apply to the masses. Since large cc cycles are a minority, they don't give them much thought. This is the Thai way.....ignore the problem and hope it goes away. Or is it just laziness? I dunno. But there are definitely a few Thais out there who get it.

I was pulled over by a cop once while riding my Honda CB650F Naked while cruising the right lane. He wanted to cite me and told me that it's not wise to ride the right lane because "cars in the right lane drive 150 kph". I could write a book on the stupidity and even irony of his statement, but it's "Thai thinking".

Still I do agree that riding in (NORTHERN) Thailand is easier and better than riding in the West, where laws are now enforced with extremeness, and costs of tickets astronomical.

The purpose of this thread once again is to get something done, not discuss the pros and cons. I know this forum will not accomplish the actual changing of a law, but I was wondering if there was actually anything we could do to initiate such laws which would enable large cc bikes to have the same rights as cars, which they should. I have not see one idea thrown into the fray; only agreement and disagreement.

My thought was that there might be some farang-based group which has some interface with the government in these matters. If there is, I'll enlist and contribute more than my share. For those who are not interested in changing the law, why would you want to combat it?? If you believe it's unsafe to ride large cc motorcycles on tollways and in the right lane, you are free NOT to. But please let others have FREEDOM and get out of our way instead of trying to protect people from themselves. That's the type of "big brother" thinking I'd like to leave behind in the West :-)

[wantan]

Being the original poster of this thread, it's sad to see what it's deteriorated into. One guy even threw politics into it, somehow claiming that allowing larger cc cycles onto tollways and onto the right lane would pit the "haves" against the "have-nots". Another takes offense to the word "biker" as used by Americans for avid motorcycle enthusiasts. This is pathetic.

After reading all the posts here, there is at least one guy who gets it and obviously rides cycles in Thailand enough to know what he's talking about. Gweiloman. My advice to you, sir, is not to waste your time going back and forth with individuals who post useless and flawed material. We ride large cycles, and we ride them in the real world, not some fantasy theoretical world.

One guy doesn't know why Thais don't separate larger cc cycles from smaller, and claims we can't know. Well, we can give it an educated guess. Thais realize that smaller cc cycles make up the VAST majority of cycles on the road; therefore their laws, in their mind, will be good enough because they apply to the masses. Since large cc cycles are a minority, they don't give them much thought. This is the Thai way.....ignore the problem and hope it goes away. Or is it just laziness? I dunno. But there are definitely a few Thais out there who get it.

I was pulled over by a cop once while riding my Honda CB650F Naked while cruising the right lane. He wanted to cite me and told me that it's not wise to ride the right lane because "cars in the right lane drive 150 kph". I could write a book on the stupidity and even irony of his statement, but it's "Thai thinking".

Still I do agree that riding in (NORTHERN) Thailand is easier and better than riding in the West, where laws are now enforced with extremeness, and costs of tickets astronomical.

The purpose of this thread once again is to get something done, not discuss the pros and cons. I know this forum will not accomplish the actual changing of a law, but I was wondering if there was actually anything we could do to initiate such laws which would enable large cc bikes to have the same rights as cars, which they should. I have not see one idea thrown into the fray; only agreement and disagreement.

My thought was that there might be some farang-based group which has some interface with the government in these matters. If there is, I'll enlist and contribute more than my share. For those who are not interested in changing the law, why would you want to combat it?? If you believe it's unsafe to ride large cc motorcycles on tollways and in the right lane, you are free NOT to. But please let others have FREEDOM and get out of our way instead of trying to protect people from themselves. That's the type of "big brother" thinking I'd like to leave behind in the West :-)

Who would change the laws if not politicians or "the government"? So why not talk about politics and political movements who would use every argument they can get against the others?

Riding bikes is a nice thing. But you were the one who started a thread about "riding laws", and now you complain that people discuss them? Imo you just complain because some people dont say what you wanted to hear. Its not that easy to change things. Its not just printing a new book with some changed laws. You cannot just change one thing and leave all others as they are. First car drivers would have to accept bikes, then you can open new spaces for bikes. But the problem is that there is already enough chaos with all the cars and its getting worser every year.

You can contact ll2, he wanted to start some movement and use all the contacts he has, like bosses from Honda and so on. If you dont want to discuss then do something.

You are wrong, most (including me) here want that laws change. And we all want a safer ride. But one has to be realistic. Its not that easy. If you set a limit like xxx cc you need better reasons for it than just saying that there fewer bikes in this class. And saying that bigger bikes are safer is just a claim that first needs to be proofed imo. Just saying "i feel safer on a bigger bike" isnt enough. And saying that on a big bike its more easy to break the speed limit and go faster as the cars - well thats an interesting argument for discussing changes to traffic laws. One could say: Why having laws in the first place if breaking them is safer?

Its the riders of bigger bikes who keep on harping about how unsafe smaller bikes are. I would feel as safe on the tollway on a small bike as i do on other main streets on the same bike. If its a tollway where cars are speeding i would stay in the left lane, behind some truck or pick-up. I sure would find a way to survive.

[Shurup]

^ mostly agree but there has to be CC limits or else the tollways will get cluttered scooter-food carts and old farmers riding their 2 smoke in all 3-4 lanes of traffic

[Gweiloman]

[wantan]

^ mostly agree but there has to be CC limits or else the tollways will get cluttered scooter-food carts and old farmers riding their 2 smoke in all 3-4 lanes of traffic

Very hard to handle imo. Imo there would be the need for an official sticker on the bike saying "This bike is allowed to do ..." (e.g. riding on tollways). Without sticker there would be endless discussions like "But my bike has xxx cc i swear, i have a big bore kit, i have some kind of special bike", whatever.

Imo it would be wiser to limit the sticker to those bikes that fulfill some requirements like:

- no selfmade modifictations

- working brakes, lights, horn, etc. everything a vehicle needs to be safe

- maybe a special test for the rider to make sure he is fit for "fast roads"

- owning and wearing a helmet

- bike is able to go faster than 80kmh

Something like that. But i doubt it would work in Thailand. People not even want to wear a helmet here. They would find a way to buy the sticker for whatever crap bike they own...

[Shurup]

You see, there is a way.

As an option they could provide eligible bikes with those wireless Easy Pass devices (motorcycle specific, kind of like in Singapore) and dedicate (or build one) gate at every plaza for the bikes only.

Having an easy pass would rule out the possibility of counterfeit stickers, etc. and would speed up the payment process as it's not so easy to fish for change in your pocket while wearing riding gloves.

[Shurup]

NonPrimaryRoute_MinimumSpeedLimitByLane_WithCrawlerLane.png

That's the way it should be, but as easy as it is to get licensed in Thailand, not everyone is aware of such rule.

I heard there were some changes in testing and examination when one goes to get a new (or re-new) a license, I heard it takes longer and harder to get it, but then @Hili said is was the same as before? So no changes and drivers/riders will no smarten up.

[Gweiloman]

Maybe many live/ride in areas without tollways/ over&underpasses so it's not a first-hand regular problem?

Yes, very true. But for those of us that live in Bangkok, it's a real pain in the posterior. Going North, South, East or West out of Bkk, there are many forbidden roads and bridges.

It's a constant struggle to choose the most optimum route, taking into account that we are usually wearing full gear so time spent stuck in traffic is not pleasant. Splitting lanes is not so easy on a big bike and of course, the bikes do generate quite a bit of heat as well.

Apart from that, even regular commuting on a scooter can be unpleasant. For eg, the Ratchadaphisek road from Petchaburi up to Lat Phrao. There are 3-4 underpasses which goes below busy junctions with long traffic lights. Bikes have to stay on the main road which means that you can get caught at a traffic light under the blazing sun for as long as two minutes. There are 3-4 such intersections on that stretch alone.

So while this is not important for some posters, it is important for others. We need to understand and respect the different situations in different parts of the country and not issue carte blanche statements as to what are the most important laws.

[H1w4yR1da]

I did not reply to HR as his post was too complicated for me to respond. I still try to get all the fine details of what he wrote.

......Where guys like you say its safer to go faster than the average traffic? Where will this end if everyone is going faster than the others "for safety reasons"? I dont believe in this and i dont believe the guys making statements about how much safer big bikes are. Does this make me a "not real biker"? I dont care, i dont live my life to fit in such role

My post was far from complicated. You didn't want to reply to it because I made your 'arguments' look a little (DELETED)

Whether you believe some statements made by big bike riders is neither here nor there. You're not a rider of big bikes so you have no experience or relevant opinion to offer.

Why you're even commenting on a thread dedicated to the discussion of 'larger cycles' is strange, as you've showed your open disdain for them and their riders in the past.

As to the term 'real biker'? AFAIK, you're the only one that has mentioned that here?

Edited March 12, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[Gweiloman]

Yes, so very true and I fully agree especially in those cases where the poster is intentionally trying to disrupt threads as opposed to making positive contributions.

Unfortunately, the only thing that we as ordinary members can do is to report such undesirable elements to the mods and hope that the mods take the appropriate action. That way, the forum can return to being what it was like a few years ago when I first joined and there was constant active discussions on numerous thread. It was very helpful to me then as a novice rider with very little experience of riding, especially in Thailand.

[Gweiloman]

No, it's an interesting topic, unfortunately not many posters left on this forum worthy of any discussion. Those who don't see the flaws in current bike laws (including all of the: left lane, tollways and under/overpass) aren't real riders or very narrow minded. While it can be argued that overpass carries some potential dangers for the bike riders, the remaining 3 don't. No logic can explain why these laws are still in effect in modern Thailand other than laziness or some hidden agenda (tea money).

I was riding back from Fashion Island yesterday, on the Nawamin Road yesterday after having lunch with 4 university students from Kasem Bundit university (God, I love their university blouses don't you? They must have bought them years ago when they were still smaller as it always seems to tight for them today).

Anyways, for those that don't know this road, it's a 3 lane dual carriageway (if you know what I mean). Left lane mostly trucks and parked vehicles. Middle lane, buses that will cut into the left lane without indication to drop off or pick up a passenger. If you happen to be alongside the bus at that moment, having been covering your brakes would help.

Needless to say, even though I was only on my PCX, I was riding on the middle and right lane. Came upon a police block on the left lane only. Cop saw me, waved and me and wanted to cross over two lanes to try and apprehend me. Sadly though, there was a rather fast vehicle on left and I guess the cop decided that 200 baht was not worth getting his brains splashed all over the road. As a recompense, I gave him a big smile and wave as I passed him. I think my smile might have brightened his day.

[wantan]

You see, there is a way.

As an option they could provide eligible bikes with those wireless Easy Pass devices (motorcycle specific, kind of like in Singapore) and dedicate (or build one) gate at every plaza for the bikes only.

Having an easy pass would rule out the possibility of counterfeit stickers, etc. and would speed up the payment process as it's not so easy to fish for change in your pocket while wearing riding gloves.

There always is a way - at least theoretically. But it would be a very long way and many things to do before it could happen imo.

Even if you limit it too new big bikes over 650cc (it would raise a lot of trouble by owners of older and smaller bikes, but OK lets forget this for a moment), how do you want to make sure, that the brakes still work in, lets say, 5 years? Its just a matter of time till there are some unsafe big bikes on tollroads/highways. You know what some thais like to do with their bikes, they modify it till you cannot see what it once was. So you need some kind of reliable regulary checks (e.g. TÜV, or similar) and a reliable control systems (e.g. Police).

If you change laws its better to first think about consequences. Its not just laziness that nothing changes, its the state this country is in that makes any changes so difficult.

[andrewrooney]

You see, there is a way.

As an option they could provide eligible bikes with those wireless Easy Pass devices (motorcycle specific, kind of like in Singapore) and dedicate (or build one) gate at every plaza for the bikes only.

Having an easy pass would rule out the possibility of counterfeit stickers, etc. and would speed up the payment process as it's not so easy to fish for change in your pocket while wearing riding gloves.

There always is a way - at least theoretically. But it would be a very long way and many things to do before it could happen imo.

Even if you limit it too new big bikes over 650cc (it would raise a lot of trouble by owners of older and smaller bikes, but OK lets forget this for a moment), how do you want to make sure, that the brakes still work in, lets say, 5 years? Its just a matter of time till there are some unsafe big bikes on tollroads/highways. You know what some thais like to do with their bikes, they modify it till you cannot see what it once was. So you need some kind of reliable regulary checks (e.g. TÜV, or similar) and a reliable control systems (e.g. Police).

If you change laws its better to first think about consequences. Its not just laziness that nothing changes, its the state this country is in that makes any changes so difficult.

Your argument about working brakes/unsafe vehicles would also apply equally to cars, pickup trucks etc. Why single out bikes?

[Hili]

NonPrimaryRoute_MinimumSpeedLimitByLane_WithCrawlerLane.png

That's the way it should be, but as easy as it is to get licensed in Thailand, not everyone is aware of such rule.

I heard there were some changes in testing and examination when one goes to get a new (or re-new) a license, I heard it takes longer and harder to get it, but then @Hili said is was the same as before? So no changes and drivers/riders will no smarten up.

Yes i just renewed my 5 year driving licsense. Process was as always (with the same old lame equipment)

- Stupid video

- Color blindness test

- Reaction test

- Stereoscopic vision test

- Pay

- Done

Maybe the rules for doing a NEW licsense changed; however i just renewed my so i dont know about this.

[Gweiloman]

NonPrimaryRoute_MinimumSpeedLimitByLane_WithCrawlerLane.png

That's the way it should be, but as easy as it is to get licensed in Thailand, not everyone is aware of such rule.

I heard there were some changes in testing and examination when one goes to get a new (or re-new) a license, I heard it takes longer and harder to get it, but then @Hili said is was the same as before? So no changes and drivers/riders will no smarten up.

Yes i just renewed my 5 year driving licsense. Process was as always (with the same old lame equipment)

- Stupid video

- Color blindness test

- Reaction test

- Stereoscopic vision test

- Pay

- Done

Maybe the rules for doing a NEW licsense changed; however i just renewed my so i dont know about this.

You forgot the depth perception test. When I renewed mine, no need for video and the stereoscopic (peripheral) test machine was not working, haha

[Gweiloman]

You see, there is a way.

As an option they could provide eligible bikes with those wireless Easy Pass devices (motorcycle specific, kind of like in Singapore) and dedicate (or build one) gate at every plaza for the bikes only.

Having an easy pass would rule out the possibility of counterfeit stickers, etc. and would speed up the payment process as it's not so easy to fish for change in your pocket while wearing riding gloves.

There always is a way - at least theoretically. But it would be a very long way and many things to do before it could happen imo.

Even if you limit it too new big bikes over 650cc (it would raise a lot of trouble by owners of older and smaller bikes, but OK lets forget this for a moment), how do you want to make sure, that the brakes still work in, lets say, 5 years? Its just a matter of time till there are some unsafe big bikes on tollroads/highways. You know what some thais like to do with their bikes, they modify it till you cannot see what it once was. So you need some kind of reliable regulary checks (e.g. TÜV, or similar) and a reliable control systems (e.g. Police).

If you change laws its better to first think about consequences. Its not just laziness that nothing changes, its the state this country is in that makes any changes so difficult.

Your argument about working brakes/unsafe vehicles would also apply equally to cars, pickup trucks etc. Why single out bikes?

Also, if I'm not mistaken, isn't it that any vehicle above 3 years old needs to be inspected before the road tax can be renewed?

[wantan]

You see, there is a way.

As an option they could provide eligible bikes with those wireless Easy Pass devices (motorcycle specific, kind of like in Singapore) and dedicate (or build one) gate at every plaza for the bikes only.

Having an easy pass would rule out the possibility of counterfeit stickers, etc. and would speed up the payment process as it's not so easy to fish for change in your pocket while wearing riding gloves.

There always is a way - at least theoretically. But it would be a very long way and many things to do before it could happen imo.

Even if you limit it too new big bikes over 650cc (it would raise a lot of trouble by owners of older and smaller bikes, but OK lets forget this for a moment), how do you want to make sure, that the brakes still work in, lets say, 5 years? Its just a matter of time till there are some unsafe big bikes on tollroads/highways. You know what some thais like to do with their bikes, they modify it till you cannot see what it once was. So you need some kind of reliable regulary checks (e.g. TÜV, or similar) and a reliable control systems (e.g. Police).

If you change laws its better to first think about consequences. Its not just laziness that nothing changes, its the state this country is in that makes any changes so difficult.

Your argument about working brakes/unsafe vehicles would also apply equally to cars, pickup trucks etc. Why single out bikes?

No i do not single out bikes. I would be happy if ALL vehicles on ALL streets would be safe. But sure noone wants to make the situation any worser as it already is. So imo no good idea to let unsafe bikes on highways just because there already are unsafe cars. Maybe i sound a bit pedantic, but i am sure the people who have to make such decision will think about such things. At the end they have the responsibility, and if things go wrong its hard to switch back to the old laws.

Gweiloman said:

> Also, if I'm not mistaken, isn't it that any vehicle above 3 years old needs to be inspected before the road tax can be renewed?

So how come that there is so much crap on the streets/highways/tollways? Guess you will find the answer yourself. Some even claim you can get a bike taxed that not has a valid green book or number plate... not sure its still like this but i would guess so.