NeverSure Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) OK, I did this once before on here a long time ago. If you don't like trivia details, skip it, LOL. A hard disk (HD) is physical hardware that you can hold in your hand after you take it home from the store. When it first rolls off the assembly line it has no software on it - no activation, no partition of which every hard drive must have at least one, and no formatting or drive letter assignment. It's a lump. A hard drive or hard disk drive (HDD) is all software. It goes onto a physical hard disk. Activating, partitioning, and formatting are all software that's put onto the disk. It can all be done by Windows utilities, especially "disk management." You can have up to 24 hard drives in up to 24 partitions on one physical hard disk. You can't have a D or A drive on a hard disk because those are reserved in the bios by the computer for an optical drive and a floppy drive. We call a hard drive that to differentiate it from a thumb drive, floppy drive, etc. That's the reason. Many drives such as optical drives, floppy drives etc. already have the software as firmware and they are and will always be drives when we get them. We have a member whose hard disk is failing. If it fails badly enough he'll lose data and he may no longer have a hard drive (software) on the hard disk (hardware), LOL. Cheers Edited March 13, 2015 by NeverSure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IMHO Posted March 14, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2015 Not sure where you get your info from, but "hard disk", "hard drive", "hard disk drive", and "HDD" (abbr.) are all synonyms and completely interchangeable. Usage has nothing to do with whether or not there's firmware on the device. You can even interchange them all for "disk drive" - though that one is a little ambiguous as it could refer to a floppy disk, or a hard disk. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Semantics. Same, same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kkerry Posted March 14, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2015 This thread is a waste of bandwidth 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 Not sure where you get your info from, but "hard disk", "hard drive", "hard disk drive", and "HDD" (abbr.) are all synonyms. -snip- All you have to do then is explain how it is you can put 24 software hard drives with 24 different hard drive letters on one physical hard disk, but can't put 24 physical hard disks on one software hard drive which has one drive letter, and we'll all understand. Seriously. If they are the same, how can you put 24 HDD's with 24 different drive letters on one physical HD if they all mean the same? The answer is that they don't mean the same. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonw8uk Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Yep, they're all the same thing buddy, regardless of software, partitions or anything; Hard disk = hard drive = hard disk drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonw8uk Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Not sure where you get your info from, but "hard disk", "hard drive", "hard disk drive", and "HDD" (abbr.) are all synonyms. -snip- All you have to do then is explain how it is you can put 24 software hard drives with 24 different hard drive letters on one physical hard disk, but can't put 24 physical hard disks on one software hard drive which has one drive letter, and we'll all understand. Seriously. If they are the same, how can you put 24 HDD's with 24 different drive letters on one physical HD if they all mean the same? The answer is that they don't mean the same. Cheers Is 24 the limit? I don't know, may be Windows specific. If 24 is correct, then yes you can make 24 partitions on your Hard disk = hard drive = hard disk drive. The letter you give it is just an identifier, a name. On a mac I can call a partition 'Neversure' if I want... you're complicating something that isn't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) They aren't the same at all, and it's not true that "it isn't". One more time. You can put 24 hard drives on 1 hard disk so they aren't the same. The first 24 are software which create partitions and drives on a hard disk. Edited March 14, 2015 by NeverSure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 Is 24 the limit? I don't know, may be Windows specific. If 24 is correct, then yes you can make 24 partitions on your Hard disk = hard drive = hard disk drive. The letter you give it is just an identifier, a name. On a mac I can call a partition 'Neversure' if I want... you're complicating something that isn't 24 is the limit because although there are 26 letters in the alphabet the bios reserves A and D for the floppy and optical drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Not sure where you get your info from, but "hard disk", "hard drive", "hard disk drive", and "HDD" (abbr.) are all synonyms. -snip- All you have to do then is explain how it is you can put 24 software hard drives with 24 different hard drive letters on one physical hard disk, but can't put 24 physical hard disks on one software hard drive which has one drive letter, and we'll all understand. Seriously. If they are the same, how can you put 24 HDD's with 24 different drive letters on one physical HD if they all mean the same? The answer is that they don't mean the same. Cheers There is no such thing as a "software hard drive" - it's generally called a Partition, into which you can create logical drives. And a Virtual disk is, well, just that. Edited March 14, 2015 by Chicog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Is 24 the limit? I don't know, may be Windows specific. If 24 is correct, then yes you can make 24 partitions on your Hard disk = hard drive = hard disk drive. The letter you give it is just an identifier, a name. On a mac I can call a partition 'Neversure' if I want... you're complicating something that isn't 24 is the limit because although there are 26 letters in the alphabet the bios reserves A and D for the floppy and optical drives. Partitions/Logical Drives do not need to have drive letters. You can create as many logical drives as you like, but yes, drive letters are a limitation. Edited March 14, 2015 by Chicog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitawatWatawit Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I have this thing. It gets loaded with other things called bytes. My thing can take 500,000,000,000 bytes. But I don't give a monkey's about my thing until it can't take any more bytes. So, then I buy another thing, and I just plug it in and I'm good to go again. I don't care whether it's hard or soft or floppy. It's a thing, and is useful just as long as it works - and when it doesn't, I call in strange, sallow-faced creatures called geeks who fix it. When they're not arguing about what to name my thing, that is. I'm sure many of us do our best to understand technology. But it doesn't help when geek types can't decide what to name their thing and engage in pointless arguments that advance no one's cause. So call it a thing that does certain things, and we'll all be happy. Really, all I know is that there is a hard drive with a memory. It takes other drives which are labelled A, B, C or whatever. They work, do their job. End of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) All you have to do then is explain how it is you can put 24 software hard drives with 24 different hard drive letters on one physical hard disk, but can't put 24 physical hard disks on one software hard drive which has one drive letter, and we'll all understand. Seriously. If they are the same, how can you put 24 HDD's with 24 different drive letters on one physical HD if they all mean the same? The answer is that they don't mean the same. Cheers There is no such thing as a "software hard drive" - it's generally called a Partition. And a Virtual disk is, well, just that. You have to have a partition before you can format it and get a drive letter on it. That's all software X 24 if you want 24 software hard drives in 24 software partitions on one physical hard disk. Lemme come from a different angle. You can remove all of the software from a physical hard disk and that will delete all partitions, all hard drives, and even the activation of the hard disk. Get a command prompt and start diskpart. Select a disk that doesn't contain your %system% drive. Use the clean /all command and all will be gone including the activation of the disk. All of the information that's on a physical hard disk that activates it, creates partition(s), formats it creating drive(s) is software. It's information that's put on the hard disk after it's manufactured. Edited March 14, 2015 by NeverSure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 I'm having fun here. No hard feelings, please? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 My drive can be "a" hard disk/drive or "the" hard disk/drive. Hard drives/disks can also be "a,the" removable drive/disk. Bottom line....this thread is silly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I'm having fun here. No hard feelings, please? If this was a political discussion, Id use different adjectives or pronouns. LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 This thread is not only trying to reclassify a term that already exists, but create a new one. There is no such thing as a "software hard drive"; as previously stated, there are already virtual disks and logical disks. You can use the word drive interchangeably with disk. So yes, this thread is a waste of time, Neversure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Oh and there is no such thing as a "software partition" either.It's a partition. You can leave it unformatted, format it, fill it with logical drives, assign or not assign them a drive letter and fill them with documents.It's still a partition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 "You can't have a D or A drive on a hard disk because those are reserved in the bios by the computer for an optical drive and a floppy drive." That is not accurate as the BIOS knows nothing about drive letters only physical drive numbers. Perhaps you are referring to antique 286/386 computers running Windows 3 or DOS. I've not had a CD as drive D for years, my current system it is drive H. When you format a drive with two partitions, or if you install two drives they become C and D and the CD moves up the drive letter chain. As for A, there was historically also B when dual floppies were common, I can remap those to something else if I wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 How about NTFS? And there are "software" programs that put proprietary "partitions on disks/ drives that cant be accessed without proper software and sometimes passwords. So.....that makes them a "software partition" does it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 "You can't have a D or A drive on a hard disk because those are reserved in the bios by the computer for an optical drive and a floppy drive." That is not accurate as the BIOS knows nothing about drive letters only physical drive numbers. Perhaps you are referring to antique 286/386 computers running Windows 3 or DOS. I've not had a CD as drive D for years, my current system it is drive H. When you format a drive with two partitions, or if you install two drives they become C and D and the CD moves up the drive letter chain. As for A, there was historically also B when dual floppies were common, I can remap those to something else if I wish. You're right. I've said before that I'm retired and not real current on newer stuff. I just looked it up. However it looks as if it's true that if you have a floppy and an optical drive Windows will assign A and D, as default and I forgot that it will assign B to a second floppy. The last desktop computer I built a couple of years ago didn't even have a mobo connector for a floppy. The new case didn't have a place for one either. Back to main thrust of topic, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) How about NTFS? And there are "software" programs that put proprietary "partitions on disks/ drives that cant be accessed without proper software and sometimes passwords. So.....that makes them a "software partition" does it not? Of course it does. All partitions and drives (with drive letters) are created with software. That's where I'm trying to go with this. The disk management tool in Windows will activate, partition, format and assign a drive letter and it's a software utility. It will also let you select or change drive letters. Notice it's managing the disk by putting software on it. You can see its graphic of the disk, right-click on areas and use a menu to use software to make everything you need on that disk. Go into disk management by typing that into the dialogue field when you click Start. Up will come graphics of your hard disks and it will call them, wait for this, disk 0, disk 1, disk 2, etc. Within each disk you can create or delete partitions, resize them, format them, change drive letters, all with software the utility puts on them. You can see what it calls the disks, and you can see the partitions and drives in them. It's a great graphical teacher. Edited March 14, 2015 by NeverSure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 Oh and there is no such thing as a "software partition" either. It's a partition. You can leave it unformatted, format it, fill it with logical drives, assign or not assign them a drive letter and fill them with documents. It's still a partition. A disk doesn't have a partition until you use software to create one. It's software on the disk that creates the partition, the formatting and the drive letter. You don't have to call it a "software partition" but that doesn't change the fact that software has created the partition and it doesn't matter what kind of partition, it's still software that you can wipe with diskpart clean /all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 I've been through this a lot of times with techs. Because the factory puts software on every HD they ship, it isn't obvious that they activated and partitioned it. Many people never experience a HD that has no software and is good only for a boat anchor. Disk management can see a blank hard disk like that but the Windows operating system can't. The disk will be grayed out and will only begin to look "normal" when disk management is used to activate it and create at least one partition. Disk management will also format it and assign or change drive letters. This is all software being put on it to make it usable to Windows. NOW the disk has a hard drive (letter) on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 How about NTFS? And there are "software" programs that put proprietary "partitions on disks/ drives that cant be accessed without proper software and sometimes passwords. So.....that makes them a "software partition" does it not? You can make up all the terms you like. Call it a virtual logical hard disk drive software partition. It doesn't mean it's going to make any more sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 How about NTFS? And there are "software" programs that put proprietary "partitions on disks/ drives that cant be accessed without proper software and sometimes passwords. So.....that makes them a "software partition" does it not? You can make up all the terms you like. Call it a virtual logical hard disk drive software partition. It doesn't mean it's going to make any more sense. In the disk management utility, can you see what Windows calls disks, and what it takes to make any kind of a partition on them with software? I think if a person would take an extra hard disk and install it onto a computer, start diskpart and wipe all of the software from it, then go into disk management and see it, he'd begin to see what I'm saying. He'd see the active, usable disk with a blue line around it, and he'd see his "dead" disk. Next while in disk management if he'd active the disk, he'd realize he's putting software on it. Next if he'd create a partition he'd graphically see it come to life and realize that's software on the disk doing that. Next if he'd format that partition, making it useable and giving it a drive letter, he'd see a hard drive in a partition come to life with software. This is all happening to and on the hard disk with right-clicks of the mouse. The Windows utility is installing software. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 They are all hard disks....no such thing as soft disks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 They are all hard disks....no such thing as soft disks LOL. I haven't ever heard the term soft disk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I don't agree about the letter D: i have had (and have now) a harddrive on that letter. This is in win 8 and previous under 7 and xp.. you can do whatever you want in diskmanagement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 They are all hard disks....no such thing as soft disks LOL. I haven't ever heard the term soft disk. 555 ask your girl, its either hard or soft. Lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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