BuddhistVirus Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 "The term "drive" originally referred to the thing moving the storage media -like a floppy drive is something you put a floppy disk into and it spins it. A tape drive is the thing that drives the tape around the read-write heads. Originally with a hard disk, the drive was separate from the disk platters -you used to load the hard disk into the disk drive. Here the Drive means a moving actuator arm with magnetic heads arranged on it to read and write data to the Hard Disk surface. Now, the drive is built-in. So a hard disk drive is referring to both the disk and the drive at the same time..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 I've read everything you've written. Much of it seems rather confused, and a fair bit of it is flat out wrong. Getting angry or ignoring people won't change that. This is my last response to you on the subject. You are neither asking questions or debating. You're just off in your own world being insulting. I am happy to go back and forth with details on the subject but you aren't doing that. Bye for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Are you going to ignore everyone who points out that you're wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 "The term "drive" originally referred to the thing moving the storage media -like a floppy drive is something you put a floppy disk into and it spins it. A tape drive is the thing that drives the tape around the read-write heads. Originally with a hard disk, the drive was separate from the disk platters -you used to load the hard disk into the disk drive. Here the Drive means a moving actuator arm with magnetic heads arranged on it to read and write data to the Hard Disk surface. Now, the drive is built-in. So a hard disk drive is referring to both the disk and the drive at the same time..." This is the common misconception and thank you for the thoughts. The drive was never the storage media. A floppy drive is such with no floppy in it. The drive has firmware in it and it reserves the A for a drive letter. Consider this. It will show in My Computer as the A drive with no floppy disk in it. The floppy is the media, not the drive or the drive letter. It needs to be this way because unlike a hard disk, the media is swapped out at will and is just storage and information to read. The tape drive is a drive if it doesn't have tape in or on it. Same as a floppy. The same applies to an optical drive with no CD or DVD in it. It still shows as a D drive with no media. All of these types of drives are created with software also, but it's burned into the drive as firmware. You can surf and read the media, but no particular disk is a drive nor does it have a drive on it. This is how they differ from a hard disk which needs that software on the disks which creates the partition(s) and formats and assigns a drive letter. With a hard disk you won't have a visible or usable drive for Windows to see and use until you partition and format, putting that software on the disk. This is how we get a hard drive configured on a hard disk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chicog Posted March 14, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2015 Neversure, a word of advice:When you are already in a hole, it is sensible policy to stop digging. This whole thread is farcical and you are just making yourself look more stupid with every post. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 Neversure, a word of advice: When you are already in a hole, it is sensible policy to stop digging. This whole thread is farcical and you are just making yourself look more stupid with every post. I don't know why, Chicog. Have you ever completely wiped a hard disk with diskpart until it wasn't even active, and then watched it graphically return in disk management to a usable drive as you put software on it? That's all I'm talking about and it shouldn't be difficult. Disk management is graphic in that you see the blue line form to define the partition as the software goes onto the disk to create it. You've formatted a disk and watched it create a drive (letter.) What's so hard about that Chicog? You start with a blank hard disk which is hardware and step by step you run software onto it to activate it, create a partition, format it, have a drive with drive letter and all that you just did was software. That's not digging a hole. That's an accurate description of how software installed on a hard disk creates a partition which can be formatted with software into a drive (letter.) It can be up to 24 partitions and drives. What amazes me is that there's so much resistance to that simple concept. This isn't hard, it's just a new concept for people who grew into computers using the wrong (but common) terms. In all of life it isn't unusual for people to pass terms along incorrectly until they become "knowledge." A perfect example is "CPU". I've heard some people call their entire case and contents for a desktop a CPU so many times it almost got to be the standard term. But as you know the CPU is the relatively small "Intel inside" central processing unit. I've had a similar conversation with people about the correct usage of CPU and received the same resistance even though I knew that I knew what the CPU is. I'm sorry I started the thread but only because of resistance and preconceived ideas. I thought it would be interesting to people because I like to learn. I've written it all down for people to understand the disk and the software drive(s) that go on it and if they want to know it's right there. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 How about your resistance to the idea that you might be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I can see how you've become confused - you've taken the fact that Windows uses the term 'drive letter' and worked from there to reach an incorrect conclusion for the meaning of 'hard drive'. Perhaps if you weren't so arrogant in believing you know more than the rest of us, you might be able to realise this mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnopolo Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I've been through this a lot of times with techs. Because the factory puts software on every HD they ship, it isn't obvious that they activated and partitioned it. Many people never experience a HD that has no software and is good only for a boat anchor. Disk management can see a blank hard disk like that but the Windows operating system can't. The disk will be grayed out and will only begin to look "normal" when disk management is used to activate it and create at least one partition. Disk management will also format it and assign or change drive letters. This is all software being put on it to make it usable to Windows. NOW the disk has a hard drive (letter) on it. They just ain't going to get it no matter how many times you explain it. Go have a beer instead :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) It isn't a drive unless it has a drive letter. No matter how many platters or read/write heads, that doesn't a drive make. Now I can't be completely sure if you're being serious or trolling. Drive letters are a DOS concept, that only Windows inherited... Practically no other OS on Earth uses the concept of drive letters. No Mac has a drive letters, no Unix, no Linux, no Android, no etc etc etc etc etc....... How are the hard drives in these machines usable without drive letters? LOL. BTW: Kudos on choosing such an appropriate user name. Edited March 14, 2015 by IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjie Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 From wikipedia A hard disk drive (HDD) is a data storage device used for storing and retrieving digital information using rapidly rotating disks (platters) coated with magnetic material.[2] An HDD retains its data even when powered off. Data is read in a random-access manner, meaning individual blocks of data can be stored or retrieved in any order rather than sequentially. An HDD consists of one or more rigid ("hard") rapidly rotating disks (platters) with magnetic heads arranged on a moving actuator arm to read and write data to the surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignis Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 what gets me is being unable to fix the drive letter... I have 3 hard drives in present PC all with 2 partitions each... C, D, E. F.G and H So 'C' and 'F' are the partitions on the same drive WHY ? and 'D' and 'H' are partitions on the same drive Why..? when I had more drives [smaller HDD's] in a PC was a great pain, take out a drive of the low letter and all the others move there letter.. Very Very annoying and confusing, if you use a partition just for one thing, it has gone moved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Firmware and software are two different animals. Resistance is futile. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 what gets me is being unable to fix the drive letter... I have 3 hard drives in present PC all with 2 partitions each... C, D, E. F.G and H So 'C' and 'F' are the partitions on the same drive WHY ? and 'D' and 'H' are partitions on the same drive Why..? when I had more drives [smaller HDD's] in a PC was a great pain, take out a drive of the low letter and all the others move there letter.. Very Very annoying and confusing, if you use a partition just for one thing, it has gone moved I'd get Neversure to sort it out for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjie Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 what gets me is being unable to fix the drive letter... I have 3 hard drives in present PC all with 2 partitions each... C, D, E. F.G and H So 'C' and 'F' are the partitions on the same drive WHY ? and 'D' and 'H' are partitions on the same drive Why..? when I had more drives [smaller HDD's] in a PC was a great pain, take out a drive of the low letter and all the others move there letter.. Very Very annoying and confusing, if you use a partition just for one thing, it has gone moved I'd get Neversure to sort it out for you. You will need 7 Software Hard Drives, 3 Hard Disk Drives and at least 2 Firmwares :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravip Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) What are partitions and logical drives? >>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/what-are-partitions-and-logical-drives Edit Disk formatting >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_formatting Edited March 14, 2015 by ravip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) From wikipedia A hard disk drive (HDD) is a data storage device used for storing and retrieving digital information using rapidly rotating disks (platters) coated with magnetic material.[2] An HDD retains its data even when powered off. Data is read in a random-access manner, meaning individual blocks of data can be stored or retrieved in any order rather than sequentially. An HDD consists of one or more rigid ("hard") rapidly rotating disks (platters) with magnetic heads arranged on a moving actuator arm to read and write data to the surfaces. Anyone can edit Wiki. I could change that right now. I started the thread knowing that many people who didn't start with computers before they were mainstream call a hard disk a drive. That's why I thought the thread would be interesting to some. If there is no language to differentiate between the physical hardware and the software that makes it usable then it wouldn't be possible to give an exam on the use of hard disks. How would people know if you were talking about the physical hardware, or the data that's put on it to make it usable? If I were to write a tutorial on how to use diskpart or disk management, we'd need vocabulary to differentiate between disk and drive. Below are screen shots I took of diskpart after the list disk command, and of disk management. In all cases the disks are called disks. My laptop has an external HD, and it shows as disk 1. My internal shows as disk 0. Never do diskpart or disk management call these items a drive. They aren't named drivepart or drive management either, for a reason. Edited March 14, 2015 by NeverSure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 zzzzya.jpg Did you notice all those "software disks" without a drive letter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casindonet Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 A good laugh though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) What are partitions and logical drives? >>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/what-are-partitions-and-logical-drives Edit Disk formatting >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_formatting From your first link which is Microsoft: A partition, sometimes also called a volume, is an area on a hard disk that can be formatted with a file system and identified with a letter of the alphabet. For example, drive C on most Windows computers is a partition. Think about that carefully. It's just what I've been saying. Microsoft agrees. They taught me this. Right there Microsoft makes it clear that the drive is on a disk. From your second link, although wiki isn't dependable, someone got this right: "...and the term "format" is understood to mean an operation in which a new disk medium is fully prepared to store files." They could have accurately added: "...is fully prepared (with software) to store files." Cheers Edited March 14, 2015 by NeverSure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 zzzzya.jpg Did you notice all those "software disks" without a drive letter? Chicog, they aren't drives. They are empty partitions (software) on a disk. They are very small, taking up little space for a reason. There's no data on them nor could there be because they aren't formatted (software) drives (software). All of the partitions on those hard disks are created by putting software on the disks. You really need to stop laughing just long enough to absorb some information that's new to you. Microsoft is calling all of the physical disks disks both in naming their disk utilities, and within the utilities. That's why I posted the screenshots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 zzzzya.jpg Did you notice all those "software disks" without a drive letter? I missed this, Chicog. There's no such thing as a "software disk" you mention. There's a hardware disk. There's a software partition which is what you saw. There can be a software drive in a partition. Those empty software partitions would become drives if I formatted them and assigned them drive letters. I would need to put more software (format) on the disk to create a drive in a partition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoiBiker Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 This is just embarrassing now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 What are partitions and logical drives? >>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/what-are-partitions-and-logical-drives Edit Disk formatting >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_formatting I want to repeat this for those who still don't understand it. From your first link which is Microsoft: "A partition, sometimes also called a volume, is an area on a hard disk that can be formatted with a file system and identified with a letter of the alphabet. For example, drive C on most Windows computers is a partition." Think about that carefully. It's just what I've been saying. Microsoft agrees. They taught me this. Right there Microsoft makes it clear that the drive is created on a disk. What is so hard for some people about the fact that a drive is created on a physical hard disk???? Microsoft just told you it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 This is just embarrassing now. I think the word you are looking for is "cringeworthy"! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 zzzzya.jpg Did you notice all those "software disks" without a drive letter? I missed this, Chicog. There's no such thing as a "software disk" you mention. There's a hardware disk. There's a software partition which is what you saw. There can be a software drive in a partition. Those empty software partitions would become drives if I formatted them and assigned them drive letters. I would need to put more software (format) on the disk to create a drive in a partition. Can you tell me how I can copy one of these disks to my software printer so that I can connect to the Wifternetweb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 zzzzya.jpg Did you notice all those "software disks" without a drive letter? I missed this, Chicog. There's no such thing as a "software disk" you mention. There's a hardware disk. There's a software partition which is what you saw. There can be a software drive in a partition. Those empty software partitions would become drives if I formatted them and assigned them drive letters. I would need to put more software (format) on the disk to create a drive in a partition. Can you tell me how I can copy one of these disks to my software printer so that I can connect to the Wifternetweb? Chicog, I just quoted Microsoft who made it clear that a drive is created on a hard disk. The only people who are making fools of themselves are the ones who don't absorb new information but instead drum on with preconceived notions. They are flying in the face of Microsoft who makes it clear that a drive is created on a hard disk by partitioning and formatting. That is done with utilities called software. I was taught this by Microsoft at classes I took from them near Seattle, Washington. If I had refused to differentiate between hard disk and hard drive I would have failed the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RichCor Posted March 14, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) I am so glad I'm traveling and can't do a proper post. Edited March 14, 2015 by RichCor 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 LOL. I'm in the US and it's 11:00 AM. I already took my break and got a good night's sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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