The difference between a hard disk and a hard drive for dummies (that's me, LOL)

[Chicog]

Chicog, I just quoted Microsoft who made it clear that a drive is created on a hard disk.

The only people who are making fools of themselves are the ones who don't absorb new information but instead drum on with preconceived notions.

They are flying in the face of Microsoft who makes it clear that a drive is created on a hard disk by partitioning and formatting. That is done with utilities called software.

I was taught this by Microsoft at classes I took from them near Seattle, Washington. If I had refused to differentiate between hard disk and hard drive I would have failed the class.

You are the one making a prize idiot of yourself over this.

Do you even know what a Hard Disk Drive originally was?

Edited March 14, 2015 by Chicog

[NeverSure]

Chicog, I just quoted Microsoft who made it clear that a drive is created on a hard disk.

The only people who are making fools of themselves are the ones who don't absorb new information but instead drum on with preconceived notions.

They are flying in the face of Microsoft who makes it clear that a drive is created on a hard disk by partitioning and formatting. That is done with utilities called software.

I was taught this by Microsoft at classes I took from them near Seattle, Washington. If I had refused to differentiate between hard disk and hard drive I would have failed the class.

You are the one making a prize idiot of yourself over this.

Do you even know what a Hard Disk Drive originally was?

I simply can't believe this. I show that Microsoft always calls a hard disk a disk in its utilities and writings, and explains how to create a drive on a hard disk, and it goes right over peoples' heads. Not only don't they believe Microsoft, but they insult me for quoting them.

Do you know what JBOD is? You can use multiple physical hard disks and span them into one volume with just one hard drive letter!!!

Do you get that? The hard disks are not the drives and you can span just one volume (partition) and hard drive (letter) across several physical hard disks!!!

Have you ever seen an array where multiple hard disks became just one volume and hard drive? Apparently not and you're not open to learn that.

You couldn't set up a RAID array or a JBOD array if you didn't have a clear picture in your mind of creating drives on disks.

I am so far ahead of you in experience and knowledge that maybe I'll always talk over your head, and you'll always get insulting because you can't comprehend the reality. ???

[Keesters]

Is 24 the limit? I don't know, may be Windows specific.

If 24 is correct, then yes you can make 24 partitions on your Hard disk = hard drive = hard disk drive. The letter you give it is just an identifier, a name. On a mac I can call a partition 'Neversure' if I want...

you're complicating something that isn't

24 is the limit because although there are 26 letters in the alphabet the bios reserves A and D for the floppy and optical drives.

Strange ... My PC has a D hard disk, hard drive, HDD whatever you want to call it. No bios reserves D that I've ever seen. A & B maybe as two floppy drives used to be the case before hard discs came along. If you only had one floppy it could be referred to as either A or B.

I think you are talking out of your rear end.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Keesters

[NeverSure]

what gets me is being unable to fix the drive letter...

I have 3 hard drives in present PC all with 2 partitions each...

C, D, E. F.G and H

So 'C' and 'F' are the partitions on the same drive WHY ? and 'D' and 'H' are partitions on the same drive Why..?

when I had more drives [smaller HDD's] in a PC was a great pain, take out a drive of the low letter and all the others move there letter.. Very Very annoying and confusing, if you use a partition just for one thing, it has gone moved

I really don't know quite what you're saying and I don't know what OS you have. If you want to change a drive letter, the easiest its to get to your start menu and type disk management into the box. Then click on the disk management icon that appears and the program will open.

Determine which disk the drive you want to change is on, and then right-click on the graphic of that partition which contains the drive letter and choose "change drive letter."

If you have an empty partition and you want to get rid of it the easy way is to right click on it and choose "delete volume." A volume is a partition. If the other partition doesn't automatically expand to take the space, right click on it and choose "extend volume." It will tell you how much you can extend it and do that. It will take up almost all of the disk.

Is that what you're asking?

[NeverSure]

Is 24 the limit? I don't know, may be Windows specific.

If 24 is correct, then yes you can make 24 partitions on your Hard disk = hard drive = hard disk drive. The letter you give it is just an identifier, a name. On a mac I can call a partition 'Neversure' if I want...

you're complicating something that isn't

24 is the limit because although there are 26 letters in the alphabet the bios reserves A and D for the floppy and optical drives.

Strange ... My PC has a D hard disk, hard drive, HDD whatever you want to call it. No bios reserves D that I've ever seen. A & B maybe as two floppy drives used to be the case before hard discs came along. If you only had one floppy it could be referred to as either A or B.

I think you are talking out of your rear end.

People really don't need to be so insulting. Do they?

You are right I already learned that A and D are no longer reserved in the bios. This was pointed out earlier. They used to be when I was working in IT.

[Keesters]

Is 24 the limit? I don't know, may be Windows specific.

If 24 is correct, then yes you can make 24 partitions on your Hard disk = hard drive = hard disk drive. The letter you give it is just an identifier, a name. On a mac I can call a partition 'Neversure' if I want...

you're complicating something that isn't

24 is the limit because although there are 26 letters in the alphabet the bios reserves A and D for the floppy and optical drives.

Strange ... My PC has a D hard disk, hard drive, HDD whatever you want to call it. No bios reserves D that I've ever seen. A & B maybe as two floppy drives used to be the case before hard discs came along. If you only had one floppy it could be referred to as either A or B.

I think you are talking out of your rear end.

People really don't need to be so insulting. Do they?

You are right I already learned that A and D are no longer reserved in the bios. This was pointed out earlier. They used to be when I was working in IT.

Never has D been reserved and I've been working with computers long before there ever was such a thing as IT.

[ignis]

what gets me is being unable to fix the drive letter...

I have 3 hard drives in present PC all with 2 partitions each...

C, D, E. F.G and H

So 'C' and 'F' are the partitions on the same drive WHY ? and 'D' and 'H' are partitions on the same drive Why..?

when I had more drives [smaller HDD's] in a PC was a great pain, take out a drive of the low letter and all the others move there letter.. Very Very annoying and confusing, if you use a partition just for one thing, it has gone moved

I really don't know quite what you're saying and I don't know what OS you have. If you want to change a drive letter, the easiest its to get to your start menu and type disk management into the box. Then click on the disk management icon that appears and the program will open.

Determine which disk the drive you want to change is on, and then right-click on the graphic of that partition which contains the drive letter and choose "change drive letter."

If you have an empty partition and you want to get rid of it the easy way is to right click on it and choose "delete volume." A volume is a partition. If the other partition doesn't automatically expand to take the space, right click on it and choose "extend volume." It will tell you how much you can extend it and do that. It will take up almost all of the disk.

Is that what you're asking?

Now a day have 2 x 1 TB and 1x 640 GB hard drive in my PC, always had Windows, OS for past 3 or so years is Windows 7...... back in the early days something like 4 GB was a big drive [remember upgrading to a massive 6 GB when Windows 95 came out]...

But the letters have always been a mystery.. so why can't 1st Hard drive + partition be 'C' and 'D' why as is at present 'C' and 'F' ? IF I take out of PC the 2nd Hard drive for any reason = the 'F' drive becomes another number... for me has always been the same going back 20 odd years

But when I plug in my 1TB external hard drive always shows 'L'

have been replacing the 'Disc' with a name, so at moment shows Data Backup [E].... Video [G] hoping that the names will always stay even if the letter changes.

have a lot of old hard drives mostly 320 GB, if I unplug the 2nd 1TB hard drive and pop in one of the old HDD's all the numbers are different except 'C' = confusing

[Chicog]

I simply can't believe this. I show that Microsoft always calls a hard disk a disk in its utilities and writings, and explains how to create a drive on a hard disk, and it goes right over peoples' heads. Not only don't they believe Microsoft, but they insult me for quoting them.

NeverSure, I worked with the original IBM "Hard Disk Drive".

It's called a Drive because the storage was removable.

Every bit of terminology that you are confusing or inventing started here.

[Tywais]

^^ When I was working at a university in the US we had all DEC systems and the below was the storage device of the day. Removable platters. Just put the cover on, rotate the handle to lock the platters to it and disconnect from the spindle. Reverse procedure to switch to another set. In this case you could argue the platters were the disk(s) and the spindle and motor system the drive. But one has to know technology and the terminology associated with it metamorphoses over time. What was correct terminology then is not necessarily applicable to current technology.

[Enoon]

I apologise if the question has already been resolved.

There seems to have been a conflation of the terms "drive", "hard disk" and "hard disk drive"

This appears to be how it works on my computer:

Creating a "drive" on a "hard disk" (the disk that holds the data) means "portioning" part of a it so that data in that area may be contained, accessed and used independently of other "drives" (areas).

There may be several drives on a hard disk and It is possible to create specific connections between drives.

On my hard disk I have 3 drives. They are C:, D: and G:.

The hard disk sits in a mechanism that spins and reads it. This mechanism is called the "hard disk drive". The hard disk drive ( with the hard disk contained in it's "bodywork") may be removed from the computer.

Drive (C:, D: or G:) = A portion of the hard disks data area.

Hard DIsk = The disk that contains the data.

Hard Disk Drive = The mechanism that holds,spins and reads the hard disk.

Separate input mechanisms (memory stick, DVD players, etc) are also labelled as "drives", E:, F:, etc.

My computer is ancient and I am, of course, an amateur of only the slightest knowledge.

[Crossy]

My first job involving computers was at a test centre where we had machines based around DEC PDP8-a and PDP8-e computers, both had dual RK05 disk packs.

The drive:-

and the disk:-

IIRC it was something like 1.6 million 12 bit words per disk == 2.4MB on a 14" disk

6743

5031

[Chicog]

I apologise if the question has already been resolved.

There seems to have been a conflation of the terms "drive", "hard disk" and "hard disk drive"

This appears to be how it works on my computer:

Creating a "drive" on a "hard disk" (the disk that holds the data) means "portioning" part of a it so that data in that area may be contained, accessed and used independently of other "drives" (areas).

There may be several drives on a hard disk and It is possible to create specific connections between drives.

On my hard disk I have 3 drives. They are C:, D: and G:.

The hard disk sits in a mechanism that spins and reads it. This mechanism is called the "hard disk drive". The hard disk drive ( with the hard disk contained in it's "bodywork") may be removed from the computer.

Drive (C:, D: or G:) = A portion of the hard disks data area.

Hard DIsk = The disk that contains the data.

Hard Disk Drive = The mechanism that holds,spins and reads the hard disk.

Separate input mechanisms (memory stick, DVD players, etc) are also labelled as "drives", E:, F:, etc.

My computer is ancient and I am, of course, an amateur of only the slightest knowledge.

You're going to be wrong according to NeverSure's Ladybird book of computers.

[Pib]

My first job involving computers was at a test centre where we had machines based around DEC PDP8-a and PDP8-e computers, both had dual RK05 disk packs.

The drive:-

and the disk:-

IIRC it was something like 1.6 million 12 bit words per disk == 2.4MB on a 14" disk

6743

5031

Crossy,

I bet you still have a PDP8 at your house serving as a seedbox. Is this really you below loading up a new program? Those 1960 era machines sure were quite--NOT!!!

[Crossy]

Could be, could be

[RichCor]

Vacuum assist auto-thread/spool Tape Drives are the future. Or so I was told. I miss my tape drive.

I don't think these Hard Drives have a future. The one we had kept walking itself across the floor from the platter vibration. Can't imagine what they'll been like as they get bigger and bigger to access more data.

[Chicog]

Vacuum assist auto-thread/spool Tape Drives are the future. Or so I was told. I miss my tape drive.

I don't think these Hard Drives have a future. The one we had kept walking itself across the floor from the platter vibration. Can't imagine what they'll been like as they get bigger and bigger to access more data.

Got to be joking haven't you?

SanDisk just announced a 200Gb MicroSD card.

[Pib]

Vacuum assist auto-thread/spool Tape Drives are the future. Or so I was told. I miss my tape drive.

I don't think these Hard Drives have a future. The one we had kept walking itself across the floor from the platter vibration. Can't imagine what they'll been like as they get bigger and bigger to access more data.

Got to be joking haven't you?

SanDisk just announced a 200Gb MicroSD card.

SanDisk is late to the party with it's 200GB MicroSD; fake SanDisk 256GB MicroSDs out of China have been selling on Ebay, AliExpress, etc. for a year.

[Chicog]

Yeah like I'd buy fake Sandisks. The real ones cause enough problems.

[NeverSure]

I simply can't believe this. I show that Microsoft always calls a hard disk a disk in its utilities and writings, and explains how to create a drive on a hard disk, and it goes right over peoples' heads. Not only don't they believe Microsoft, but they insult me for quoting them.

NeverSure, I worked with the original IBM "Hard Disk Drive".

It's called a Drive because the storage was removable.

Every bit of terminology that you are confusing or inventing started here.

These were drives without the media in them just as optical and floppies are drives when empty. The software/firmware to run them was in the machine.

You are right. It's a drive because the media is removeable. It isn't related to the modern hard disk beyond an ability to store data. It's more like a big floppy drive with media that isn't floppy.

This is probably how the modern HD got the colloquial name of hard drive but it's just that. The term hard drive for a modern hard disk is nothing more than slang.

Remember. You can take multiple modern hard disks and span them into just one volume and just one drive with just one drive letter. Software to create volumes and drives is on the disk(s). I don't know why you can't or won't understand that.

[SoiBiker]

The windows use of the term 'drive' has no connection with the meaning of 'hard disk drive'.

I don't know why you can't or won't understand that.

[NeverSure]

I apologise if the question has already been resolved.

There seems to have been a conflation of the terms "drive", "hard disk" and "hard disk drive"

This appears to be how it works on my computer:

Creating a "drive" on a "hard disk" (the disk that holds the data) means "portioning" part of a it so that data in that area may be contained, accessed and used independently of other "drives" (areas).

There may be several drives on a hard disk and It is possible to create specific connections between drives.

On my hard disk I have 3 drives. They are C:, D: and G:.

The hard disk sits in a mechanism that spins and reads it. This mechanism is called the "hard disk drive". The hard disk drive ( with the hard disk contained in it's "bodywork") may be removed from the computer.

Drive (C:, D: or G:) = A portion of the hard disks data area.

Hard DIsk = The disk that contains the data.

Hard Disk Drive = The mechanism that holds,spins and reads the hard disk.

Separate input mechanisms (memory stick, DVD players, etc) are also labelled as "drives", E:, F:, etc.

My computer is ancient and I am, of course, an amateur of only the slightest knowledge.

You're going to be wrong according to NeverSure's Ladybird book of computers.

He's right about everything except that the hard disk is not the disks in the enclosure. The hard disk is the complete unit. This is the term that Microsoft uses for its utilities and when explaining how to configure a hard disk. It's also the term that the manufacturers use.

I doubt that anyone has ever heard the platters called "the hard disk."

[NeverSure]

The windows use of the term 'drive' has no connection with the meaning of 'hard disk drive'.

I don't know why you can't or won't understand that.

You've been to school at Microsoft in Redmond. I didn't notice you there.

Going back to the beginning of the IBM PC, all disk utilities in DOS, and all disk utilities developed by Microsoft use the word disk. Fdisk, diskpart, disk manager, chkdsk...

IBM and Microsoft wrote instructions on how to activate, partition, and format disks to create drives (letters.) Microsoft has purchased or developed more disk utilities.

They needed the two different terms to clarify what they were talking about. Using the word "drive" when they meant disk would have caused people to stumble when trying to create a drive in a volume on a disk.

[SoiBiker]

I thought you weren't replying to me any more.

[NeverSure]

"They needed the two different terms to clarify what they were talking about. Using the word "drive" when they meant disk would have caused people to stumble when trying to create a drive in a volume on a disk."

This is why I started this thread about the modern hard disk and differentiated between hard disk and hard drive. I thought people who are into computers and posting in this section would be interested.

[SoiBiker]

Microsoft might prefer to fudge the terminology to make allowances from their decision to use the word 'drive' in a confusing manner, but they don't own the English language. The device is called a hard disk drive.

[NeverSure]

Deleted. Waste of time.

Edited March 15, 2015 by NeverSure

[Enoon]

I apologise if the question has already been resolved.

There seems to have been a conflation of the terms "drive", "hard disk" and "hard disk drive"

This appears to be how it works on my computer:

Creating a "drive" on a "hard disk" (the disk that holds the data) means "portioning" part of a it so that data in that area may be contained, accessed and used independently of other "drives" (areas).

There may be several drives on a hard disk and It is possible to create specific connections between drives.

On my hard disk I have 3 drives. They are C:, D: and G:.

The hard disk sits in a mechanism that spins and reads it. This mechanism is called the "hard disk drive". The hard disk drive ( with the hard disk contained in it's "bodywork") may be removed from the computer.

Drive (C:, D: or G:) = A portion of the hard disks data area.

Hard DIsk = The disk that contains the data.

Hard Disk Drive = The mechanism that holds,spins and reads the hard disk.

Separate input mechanisms (memory stick, DVD players, etc) are also labelled as "drives", E:, F:, etc.

My computer is ancient and I am, of course, an amateur of only the slightest knowledge.

You're going to be wrong according to NeverSure's Ladybird book of computers.

He's right about everything except that the hard disk is not the disks in the enclosure. The hard disk is the complete unit. This is the term that Microsoft uses for its utilities and when explaining how to configure a hard disk. It's also the term that the manufacturers use.

I doubt that anyone has ever heard the platters called "the hard disk."

As I said, I am a rank amateur and had to work it out for myself by looking at the details in my pop-ups and information such as this:

Hard disk drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_driveA hard disk drive (HDD) is a data storage device used for storing and retrieving digital information using rapidly rotating disks (platters) coated with magnetic ...etc

I considered using the term "platter" but it seemed sort of archaic, a bit like 78!

[NeverSure]

I apologise if the question has already been resolved.

There seems to have been a conflation of the terms "drive", "hard disk" and "hard disk drive"

This appears to be how it works on my computer:

Creating a "drive" on a "hard disk" (the disk that holds the data) means "portioning" part of a it so that data in that area may be contained, accessed and used independently of other "drives" (areas).

There may be several drives on a hard disk and It is possible to create specific connections between drives.

On my hard disk I have 3 drives. They are C:, D: and G:.

The hard disk sits in a mechanism that spins and reads it. This mechanism is called the "hard disk drive". The hard disk drive ( with the hard disk contained in it's "bodywork") may be removed from the computer.

Drive (C:, D: or G:) = A portion of the hard disks data area.

Hard DIsk = The disk that contains the data.

Hard Disk Drive = The mechanism that holds,spins and reads the hard disk.

Separate input mechanisms (memory stick, DVD players, etc) are also labelled as "drives", E:, F:, etc.

My computer is ancient and I am, of course, an amateur of only the slightest knowledge.

You're going to be wrong according to NeverSure's Ladybird book of computers.

He's right about everything except that the hard disk is not the disks in the enclosure. The hard disk is the complete unit. This is the term that Microsoft uses for its utilities and when explaining how to configure a hard disk. It's also the term that the manufacturers use.

I doubt that anyone has ever heard the platters called "the hard disk."

As I said, I am a rank amateur and had to work it out for myself by looking at the details in my pop-ups and information such as this:

Hard disk drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_driveA hard disk drive (HDD) is a data storage device used for storing and retrieving digital information using rapidly rotating disks (platters) coated with magnetic ...etc

I considered using the term "platter" but it seemed sort of archaic, a bit like 78!

That has been quoted here before. I can go in and edit that right now. There is no doubt that the term drive has been associated by the unwashed with disk, and it permeates a lot of places, but if we don't differentiate between disk and drive, we'd have a very hard time writing instructions on how to create a partition and a drive (letter) on a hard disk. Think about that.

"...but if we don't differentiate between disk and drive, we'd have a very hard time writing instructions on how to create a partition and a drive (letter) on a hard disk. Think about that."

[SoiBiker]

The unwashed! Hilarious.

As for instructions on how to set up a disk, even microsoft themselves don't use the word 'drive' in the context you do. They call it a 'volume'.

[Gumballl]

They aren't the same at all, and it's not true that "it isn't". One more time.

You can put 24 hard drives on 1 hard disk so they aren't the same.

The first 24 are software which create partitions and drives on a hard disk.

I have to agree with the others. A HDD is a physical piece of hardware, which can vary in size. Typically they come in 5.25" and 3.5" sizes. The software drives you write about are known as partitions.

Windows, perhaps the most antiquated OS still in use, allows for up to 26 partitions, of which two are reserved: A and D. That leaves the operator with the option to create up to 24 partitions, each of which is designated by a single letter of the English alphabet (that is not either A or D).

Other OSes, such as UNIX, Linux and OS X, allow an operator to create numerous partitions. The partitions are identified with a unique string ID, and can be associated with a common name (with or without spaces) to make identification of these partitions even easier for the user.

Anyhow, being that I am in the Software Engineering profession, and have been over 25 years, Hard Drive, Hard Disk Drive and HDD all mean the same thing. Whether one procures an HDD with or without pre-installed software makes no difference in how the device is called.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Gumballl