my dead corpse

[maewang99]

in the countryside in many villages, when someone dies, and if we know they are about to die or are dying, even before they die, everyone in the village in involved. And certainly no later than as soon as someone dies. Until the burning.

I live in a village like that, and I rarely ever go outside my Amphoe for more than 10 years. Only when I have some legal issue or shopping trip to make have I ever left this immediate area. I live here. 100% legally.

My point is that everyone here is a friend and a neighbor. It is a way of life I enjoy.

I always had a small doubt in my mind, that I was afraid to respond to, that no matter how much I wish that after I die that my wife and the people I live with, would carry out the funeral rights for myself as well. Just like as for everyone else.

With great regret that I did not die before I discovered it, I am posting it on Thaivisa.com.

When a farlang dies, unlike a Thai who is or is not also a US national, the village headman must report my death. No surprise there. There is no pretending that a farlang is Thai.

But there will be no village funeral. I will be autopsied by Thai officials and my corpse warehoused until the US Dept. of State receives private funds (this required by US statute, not Dept. of State rules) from someone in the USA, perhaps my estate, if I have one, and they send the necessary funds. I have no idea what happens after that, nor do I have any wish that anything does happen. It will be too late.

As for a village funeral, and the solaces of the people I live with for my Thai wife... that will never happen.

Someone will say that they want every farlang American to get an autopsy. What if I don't? And it's not just about the autopsy.

Someone else is going to tell me that my Thai wife is my "next of kin". She isn't. The US law defers to California in my case and this ain't California. And the autopsy proceeds regardless anyways.

Yeah, so someone else will say tough apples, you shouldn't have decided to live in Thailand where you have no sovereign rights, even to your own corpse. Okay, I'm sorry.

What is it with corpses? I don't even understand my own country. Example Hal Moore and his famous nonsense about being the last boot on the ground. He is no longer one of my heroes because all he does is remind that I don't own my own corpse.

I'm not sure I like this nor how to play this game.

I cannot just up and go to the USA and spend a few weeks there spending money like crazy to settle what happens to my corpse.

Am I wrong about something? What?

And as for someone saying that they think that I think "too much"..... that's because I'm not dead yet.

Edited March 16, 2015 by maewang99

[simon43]

Tell the village headman not to bother informing the embassy until you've already gone up in smoke at the local temple

[Bluetongue]

That's right tell your wife to burn you first, paperwork and bs second. I had no idea this was the case for American's, I hope it is not so for Australians. All I wish is that my wife gives enough time for Aussie family and friends to get here for it, so I will probably get a 7 dayer not the run of the mill three dayer. Morbid I know.

[kannot]

I want to be buried on the land I live at.......doubt theyll allow that, far better to waste fuel and burn me

[JAS21]

I've asked my wife just to do the 3 Day job. Have gently told my childen that as they haven't visited me whilst I'm alive don't bother when I'm dead and that the 3 Day job is what will happen ......

[Chonburiram]

I think you should clear this with your embassy. A normal death certificate signed by a doctor, stating reason of death + a will (including funeral procedures) from you, would be enough.

[bill1369]

Seems the OP has some very genuine concerns but all of the replies are conjecture and guesses. I'd think more expats living here and wishing to remain in Thailand 'after' would be very interested in definitively knowing what happens to their remains.

BTW: I've never had much luck getting information out of the US Embassy. I'm not so sure they will answer a question about this without first figuring out how to charge an exorbitant fee for the info.

[daoyai]

When I had my american friend cremated, (no thai wife) the next of kin in US through US consulate had somehow put me in charge of funeral procedures. After that there were no problems. Autopsies are usually for unatended or questionable circumstances.

[CharlieH]

You have been mis-informed. I think you will find what you describe only happens when the death is suspicious. If you were found shot, stabbed etc, then an autopsy etc would be required.

If you, like some of my friends here, die of illness or natural causes etc then an autopsy is not required and doesnt apply and you will be dealt with as a local, funeral arrangements, burning etc.

This was certainly true for the last two funerals here for ferangs, that I was also involved in dealing with there affairs/paperwork.

[chrisinth]

I am not sure about the legal aspects of natural deaths here.

For a long time i understood that if a foreigner died 'up country' then the body would have to go to Bkk, however, having lived in Phitsanulok for the last 15 years, and having attended more than a dozen burnings, i have never witnessed or heard of the body leaving the province. Once the death certificate and release certificate has been issued from the hospital, it is straight off to the wat.

[NickJ]

Went through it ....natural death no autopsy. Creamation at Wat.........Wharehouse of dead farang.....now that would be creepy.

[TooPoopedToPop]

You have been mis-informed. I think you will find what you describe only happens when the death is suspicious. If you were found shot, stabbed etc, then an autopsy etc would be required.

If you, like some of my friends here, die of illness or natural causes etc then an autopsy is not required and doesnt apply and you will be dealt with as a local, funeral arrangements, burning etc.

This was certainly true for the last two funerals here for ferangs, that I was also involved in dealing with there affairs/paperwork.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[jerojero]

As opposed to your live corpse? Or similar to your defined definition.

[NancyL]

CharlieH is absolutely right about this. Maewang99 -- you have little to worry about. Your death will be handled as if you are Thai i.e. an autopsy will be ordered only if you died under suspicious circumstances. The U.S. Embassy will be notified and they will look to your wife or a close local friend to make arrangements. They don't have the personnel in Bangkok to get involved unless the situation was suspicious.

There will be a Thai death certificate -- produced locally -- that your wife (or the close friend handling arrangements) should arrange to have translated into English and sent to the U.S. Embassy. They will produce a document called a "Report of Death of U.S. Citizen Abroad" which your heirs can use like a U.S. death certificate to close bank accounts, claim life insurance, file for widow's benefits, etc in the U.S.

Don't worry, there's no need for your body or ashes to ever leave the amphur.

Edited March 17, 2015 by NancyL

[Loaded]

CharlieH is absolutely right about this. Maewang99 -- you have little to worry about. Your death will be handled as if you are Thai i.e. an autopsy will be ordered only if you died under suspicious circumstances. The U.S. Embassy will be notified and they will look to your wife or a close local friend to make arrangements. They don't have the personnel in Bangkok to get involved unless the situation was suspicious.

There will be a Thai death certificate -- produced locally -- that your wife (or the close friend handling arrangements) should arrange to have translated into English and sent to the U.S. Embassy. They will produce a document called a "Report of Death of U.S. Citizen Abroad" which your heirs can use like a U.S. death certificate to close bank accounts, claim life insurance, file for widow's benefits, etc in the U.S.

Don't worry, there's no need for your body or ashes to ever leave the amphur.

Your local police office also need to be informed.

The death certificate can be translated by anyone but it needs to be approved by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. They will tell you what changes need to be made, if any, and then stamp the document. It can then be officially accepted as the translation. Maybe the USA embassy offers its own translation authentication service.

The autopsy is optional. However, I suggest that if you have insurance, property or a will in your home country, you give instructions to your next of kin to request one. A death certificate without a cause of death may not be sufficient to initiate probate.

Normally, your next of kin will collect the ashes/remains the next day from the crematorium.

The above is my personal experience.

[peterb17]

I believe the rule is that if you die outside of hospital, then an autopsy is mandatory.

I may be wrong.

In reply to Howitzer - everyone should discuss death , certainly it is a bit nearer at 70. My neighbour is 92 and still whizzes around the world, so could have many years of pleasant life left- 70 is the new 40!

You never know what is around the corner- especially if you ride a bike here-so have all paperwork , wills , etc up to date.

[MrWorldwide]

I'm not taking any chances - I'm confident that they'll happily spread my ashes at the location of my choice in Cambodia without all this bureaucratic nonsense ; just have to make sure they wait till after I've passed to get the show on the road

PS can anyone here write me a note in Khmer ?

[bonobo]

I have attended a number of funerals/cremations for Americans in Thailand, all done according to Thai traditions.

[NancyL]

I believe the rule is that if you die outside of hospital, then an autopsy is mandatory.

I may be wrong.

In reply to Howitzer - everyone should discuss death , certainly it is a bit nearer at 70. My neighbour is 92 and still whizzes around the world, so could have many years of pleasant life left- 70 is the new 40!

You never know what is around the corner- especially if you ride a bike here-so have all paperwork , wills , etc up to date.

If you die suddenly outside a hospital, for no apparent reason, then yes, an autopsy will probably be ordered. But if the cause of death is evident then no autopsy may be ordered.

Yes, police are often called in for a death in the home. If someone is ill and expected to die, then it's a good idea to invite the police to come to the home ahead of death so they understand there is a person in the home who is ill and expected to die -- that s/he is being cared for properly, under proper medical supervision, etc. This pre-death visit should reduce the number of questions that are asked by the police on the day of death and minimize the intrusion to the family.

Edited March 17, 2015 by NancyL

[Xircal]

For US citizens, see: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/death-of-a-us-citizen.html

For the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/406094/Information_Relating_to_Deaths_in_Thailand_February_2015_-_lastest_edition.pdf

P.S. Love the heading above my reply which reads "Replying to my dead corpse".

[pitrevie]

When my English friend died his friend was told the hospital would not release the body until another friend provided his credit card to ensure they got their money if the insurance did not come through. My instructions in this eventuality is that they should be told to keep the corpse and do what they will with it.

I have only one other instruction, no cleric or priest anywhere near me when I am dying, what mumbo jumbo they do afterwards is of no concern to me.

[opalred]

like all thais i had to join burn club in area people come collect every month 20 b towards party

[ravip]

Seems the OP has some very genuine concerns but all of the replies are conjecture and guesses. I'd think more expats living here and wishing to remain in Thailand 'after' would be very interested in definitively knowing what happens to their remains.

BTW: I've never had much luck getting information out of the US Embassy. I'm not so sure they will answer a question about this without first figuring out how to charge an exorbitant fee for the info.

Oooops! I thought this was a 'Thainess' attitude!!!