Today's condos, tomorrow's ghettos?

[StasD]

I consider Niran condo is ghetto many years already. why? the pools smell with urine

[Ripvanwinkle]

Sometimes the management of a condominium wants to make improvements and try to raise the money by increasing the management fees, but are unsuccessful.

The problem is that at a General Meeting 50% of the total voting rights are needed in favour of the proposal to increase the management fees and at a second General Meeting, called within 15 days of the first meeting, one-third of the total voting rights are needed in favour of the proposal.

At many condominiums these percentages can never be achieved. Often, there are not even 50% and one-third of the voting rights represented at the meetings, respectively.

So the management can never find the funds to do repair work and the buildings fall into a state of disrepair.

The problem could be solved by an amendment to the Condominium Act reducing the percentages of voting rights needed. There was a reduction in 2008 by Condominium Act Nr 4 from 75% to 50% for the first meeting and from 50% to one-third at the second meeting, but these reductions have been insufficient to get the votes needed.

[sdanielmcev]

I guess a lot depends on whether you're going to pick up a broom and sweep it yourself.

[zaZa9]

Im aware of condos near me in Phuket that originally sold for 7 million baht 9 years ago

Recently a package of 2 were sold for 4 million - for both!

An ongoing war between the ego-maniacal Thai lady landowner who aims to rort the body corps funds and indeed control it altogether , and the residents , has seen one of the lovely pools emptied , and the tropical rot setting in

Its a poor investment , and is probably indicative of the greater condo market as well

[Larsarus]

Condos do not make ghettos. People do.

[poweratradio]

If they keep spending money on maintenance it shouldn't become a ghetto.

House or Condo if you don't maintain it properly it will become a derelict.

Gee stating the obvious.......

[poweratradio]

Im aware of condos near me in Phuket that originally sold for 7 million baht 9 years ago

Recently a package of 2 were sold for 4 million - for both!

An ongoing war between the ego-maniacal Thai lady landowner who aims to rort the body corps funds and indeed control it altogether , and the residents , has seen one of the lovely pools emptied , and the tropical rot setting in

Its a poor investment , and is probably indicative of the greater condo market as well

Don't have a clue what you might be suggesting here???? There is no single land owner in a Condo Corporation and where is the board members made up of Condo owners in this great price reduction and dereliction of maintenance upkeep. If she is the owners board leader then vote her out and charge her with embezzlement.

[poweratradio]

Sometimes the management of a condominium wants to make improvements and try to raise the money by increasing the management fees, but are unsuccessful.

The problem is that at a General Meeting 50% of the total voting rights are needed in favour of the proposal to increase the management fees and at a second General Meeting, called within 15 days of the first meeting, one-third of the total voting rights are needed in favour of the proposal.

At many condominiums these percentages can never be achieved. Often, there are not even 50% and one-third of the voting rights represented at the meetings, respectively.

So the management can never find the funds to do repair work and the buildings fall into a state of disrepair.

The problem could be solved by an amendment to the Condominium Act reducing the percentages of voting rights needed. There was a reduction in 2008 by Condominium Act Nr 4 from 75% to 50% for the first meeting and from 50% to one-third at the second meeting, but these reductions have been insufficient to get the votes needed.

If repairs are needed and voted in my the majority present then the total ownership should be on the hook equally for the costs with an owner not anteing up foreclosure could be the final result with liens on his shares.

[poweratradio]

It's no guarantee but I would buy a condo built by one of the large, respected, publically traded, Bangkok builders--Sansiri, Lumpini, SC Asset, Supalai, etc. They are in the business of building and, more importantly, selling condos. We used to live in a condo in Pattaya built by a private owner and they owned so many unsold units that they could control the condo board and the budget since they could outvote everyone--and they did. Not a good situation. Suggestions for improvements went in one ear and out the other. Richer than God and really not that concerned as to whether they ever sold the unsold condos or not. I'd avoid a family operation like that. A condo that has a hotel component with a respected hotel like Marriot or Amari might also be a consideration as they might maintain things better.

Hope you have fire insurance because a builder with as many unsold units and not caring about that as you say: has ulterior motives and you better watch out for what that might be..

[poweratradio]

In my experience it comes down to the management of the condo. I personally stay away from Thai company managed condos. Those managed by foreign companies with a demonstrated history do the job well and I have little concerns. Those managed by Thai companies, well there are just too many stories whereby the money is never recovered or not allocated to repair and maintenance as described.

Just my 2 cents and observations over the past 4 years living in condos myself.

Condos are managed by the share holders IE owners. You are one so I don't know what your talking about Thai or foreign managed companies unless they have all the individual owners voting shares by proxy

[Delight]

In my experience it comes down to the management of the condo. I personally stay away from Thai company managed condos. Those managed by foreign companies with a demonstrated history do the job well and I have little concerns. Those managed by Thai companies, well there are just too many stories whereby the money is never recovered or not allocated to repair and maintenance as described.

Just my 2 cents and observations over the past 4 years living in condos myself.

Condos are managed by the share holders IE owners. You are one so I don't know what your talking about Thai or foreign managed companies unless they have all the individual owners voting shares by proxy

For absolute certain Condos are NOT managed by the Co-owners (i.e.Shareholders}

A Condo management structure is identical to a Public Company structure

Board of Directors

C E O

Operational Manager ( if agreed by the Shareholders)

Shareholders (i.e Co -owners )simply pay for the foregoing in exchange for a well managed Condo (hopefully)

[krisb]

Simple, travel around this amazing land. Find a good woman - assuming you are a good man - and you will be condominiun-less. Age dependent, go bush ,but not so far you and your bride cannot have a social life. Crikey, all up to the individual. Think man! What do you want/expect out of the the rest of your life? After writing this I made a fundamental presumption. You were me. Sorry, my unknown friend.

Thanks Tassie Norm!

I'll keep the advice in mind mate.

[jacko45k]

I suppose the same could be said with respect to houses. I recall when I was looking to buy I was shown what looked to be a very nice, tidy up market village, which still had lots available. The same company had other villages around town and they were all numbered presumably sequentially, so I went to look at number one and 2 which happened to be quite nearby.

It looked like Beirut.

Pot holed roads.

Many overgrown gardens.

Pool out of order.

Dogs wandering around freely.

Some houses appeared abandoned.

Even an abandoned car in the street and various stuff 'stored' out front of houses.

Security let me in, actually nobody in the box.

I had an idea that in 5 years time the new one could look similar.... rent not buy popped into my head.

[newnative]

Memo to Poweratradio. Wish it would be an easy thing for condo owners to make changes in management--as you seem to indicate in your posting. I agree with the poster who said foreign management would likely be better than Thai management. Making a change to foreign management (actually any changes) would be difficult I think as only a maximum of 49% of the condos are foreign owned. In some cases the builder still holds the majority of the votes with unsold units and proxys. It's difficult to make changes here as a lot of the owners are only here part time, condo meetings are not held frequently and owners are not encouraged to attend, and its often difficult to even communicate with the co-owners as most condos don't have websites and are reluctant to give out co-owner information like emails and so on.

[Cake Monster]

I would worry more about being the only resident.

And as for buying " off plan " - bad idea at the moment, as the condo may never be finished

[trogers]

Be careful.....I am but a single poor guy in my forties(thai who was educated overseas and worked overseas and am of mixed ethnicity)....I cannot afford the typical middle-class condos that go for about 4 million baht upwards so I decided to buy three units of 22.5(one was 26sqm) sqm condo units at lumpini onnut 46 to convert them into one single big unit. I transferred my unit in September 2014, paid in cash (each was about Bt 920,000 as I took the 7th floor) with all my savings,spent another 2.2 million baht getting the best electrical furnishings, built-ins, curtains, etc ie OLED Curved Tvs, etc. I was so proud of my dwelling which was fully paid for ie no bank loans or morgages) which was a total of 71sqm, with three bathrooms, a living and dinning area, three rooms and three balconies.

Now only six months on, I am regretting and crying everyday.....the main small lobby area where the lifts are , are so filthy. The common corridors are also filthy, and the local garbage that stay here are so noisy and live like pigs. i am ashamed to be have thai blood and really I learn one thing, never help the poor thais....they can never change. The managemnet only sit in the offices and for them, such standards are acceptable!

Never buy condos oe even cheap moo bans, you will suffer and regret later.

Communal living is just that. You cannot change a community. You either adapt, or move. This applies to both condos and moo baan.

Choose your place carefully when you intend to buy. One reason why I choose to buy old condos. You know what you are buying into.

[whiteman]

Buy into a better Estate such as Panya Resort very near Cystal Bay Golf club Sri Racha Chonburi. Panya has been around for over 25 years and still going strong I rai land costs approx 6 million all with water views. All cars are checked in and out and boots and back of trucks have to be opened up b4 you can leave unless you are a resident. At all times there are 3 guards working on the gates both in and out hence there has not been any bother here. The low lifers go rob some other poor bugger.

[trogers]

I used to have a couple of condos in Jomtien and you could see the signs. At first everyone paid the maintenance fee which wasnt expensive but over a few years there were a significant number, mostly but not exclusively Thai's who hadnt paid for a year or more.

We moved to a house at that point. No idea what the condo we were in is like now but I would guess not as good as it should have been

Actually, all buyers of new developments have to pay monies to cover the sinking fund and 24 months of common fees. This is why new projects do not see problems with maintenance in the first few years.

But thereafter,...

If you walk into a project that was completed 15 years ago, or even 30 years ago, the state of the project and the kind of community residing there would be obvious.

[catweazle]

Simple answer to a simple question: YES!

[trogers]

Simple answer to a simple question: YES!

Not necessarily. Depends on the type of community and the vacancy level.

[smudger1951]

As already said not a ghetto but run down due to poor maintenance in tropical climate. The constant construction of huge condo complexes has surely created an oversupply.

[trogers]

As already said not a ghetto but run down due to poor maintenance in tropical climate. The constant construction of huge condo complexes has surely created an oversupply.

Oversupply is the devil causing high vacancy rates. And this country has no system to penalise owners leaving their units vacant, nor developers leaving their units unsold.

[rotary]

Ours started that way then it all changed and they made it better than new but thats not the norm. As other posters have stated its the same with a Mooban.

[chris2004]

As already said not a ghetto but run down due to poor maintenance in tropical climate. The constant construction of huge condo complexes has surely created an oversupply.

Oversupply is the devil causing high vacancy rates. And this country has no system to penalise owners leaving their units vacant, nor developers leaving their units unsold.

Surely if a developer has built a condo and only sold a few units they must be paying a great deal in maintenance fees for the unsold units. This must be a big incentive to sell their units.

[trogers]

As already said not a ghetto but run down due to poor maintenance in tropical climate. The constant construction of huge condo complexes has surely created an oversupply.

Oversupply is the devil causing high vacancy rates. And this country has no system to penalise owners leaving their units vacant, nor developers leaving their units unsold.

Surely if a developer has built a condo and only sold a few units they must be paying a great deal in maintenance fees for the unsold units. This must be a big incentive to sell their units.

? try reading the posts on grievances of co-owners, where the developers are not paying...

[KittenKong]

Surely if a developer has built a condo and only sold a few units they must be paying a great deal in maintenance fees for the unsold units. This must be a big incentive to sell their units.

The developer usually acts as management until all units are sold, and in some cases may stay on as management for quite a lot longer. Quite often they stay until they are actually kicked out, at which time it may become clear that they have been bleeding the sinking fund dry for several years, or that they didnt make a proper contribution to the common fees for their units.

To me a developer acting as management looks like an unacceptable conflict of interests.

[rayongchelsea]

^^^^ plus lack of maintenance. Lack of transparency...it's just simply trouble..

[wpcoe]

There was a thread fairly recently about a developer who specifically wrote (into sales contracts, or some document filed with the Land Office?) that they would pay a significantly lower monthly rate for maintenance fees for unsold units.

[KittenKong]

There was a thread fairly recently about a developer who specifically wrote (into sales contracts, or some document filed with the Land Office?) that they would pay a significantly lower monthly rate for maintenance fees for unsold units.

Yes, there was. The only document that I can see that would allow that would be the condo rules and regs, which are registered with the LO.

I dont know if the latest incarnation of the Condo Act has anything in it to cover that case, or possibly forbid it.

Of course if the developer is also the management and the Juristic Person Manager it wouldn't be very hard for them to "lose" debts on their units in the accounts.

[OnMyWay2]

I like the smaller buildings because they can still have charm even with age.

Most of the massive complexes will eventually look like housing projects. Especially once you get a bunch of people drying their clothes on the balconies.