23 Banks Bombed In South Thailand

[fruittbatt]

Islamaphobia. YOU BET ! ! ! a PERSON DOESN'T WANT TO GENERALIZE ABOUT A CERTAIN GRUOP AND LUMP A FEW BAD APPLES ACTIONS IN WITH THE GENERAL POPULATION OF THAT GROUP.

HOWEVER, THIS GROUP IT SEEMS HAS NO REGRET OR SHAME ABOUT WHAT HARM IS BROUGHT TO OTHERS.

I HAVE SEEN THE THAI POLCE IN ACTION. MOST THAI MEN ARE PASSIVE GOOD PEOPLE. BUT I HAVE SEEN THAI POLICE IN ACTION, ONCE PROVOKED OR REQUIRED TO DO A JOB, NO ONE IS MORE SERIOUS OR DANGEROUS THAN A THAI SOLDIER OR POLICEMEN.

SOI HOPE THE GOVERNMENT USES THIS FEIRCE FIGHTING SPIRIT AND DETERMINATION TO PUT DOWN AND STOP ANY MOVEMENT IN ITS TRACKS.

I HAVE ONE VERY DEAR MID-EAST MUSLIM FREIND, AND I WOULD TRUST HIM WITH MY LIFE MY MONEY ETC... BUT EVERY OTHER ARAB I HAVE MET, I DON'T TRUST -DON'T CARE FOR, AND CAN SEE THEY WOULD NOT STAND UP FOR ME IN A BAD SITUATION WITH OTHER ARABS/MUSLIMS.

THIS GEORGE BUSH GUY HAS MADE ALOT OF MISTAKES, BUT I HOPE HE F----ING CRUSHES THE ISLAMIST FASCHIST THAT NOW THREATEN NEARLY EVERY COUNTRY AND THE ENTIRE WORLD

Keith this is a bigger issue than can be argued from single personal experiences of Arabs or Muslims or Jains or Sikhs or Mormons or Thai cops or whatall. The Thai military is not the solution here...its heavy-handed tactics are very much part of the problem and very much part of the resentment that exists in the South. Your views about George Bush and the Muslim world are pure FOXXXX & CNNNNNNN propaganda...straight from the mouth of the O'Really Malefactor...don't believe all you see on TV...meet many many Thai Muslims and get to know them and get back to us..............

Edited August 31, 2006 by fruittbatt

[meemiathai]

It would be really unfortunate if the only constant in this matter would be our mass reaction to Islam. For the record, I am Christian.

Lucky for you Thailand is not Islamic:

"In March 2006, Abdul Rahman, an Afghan who converted to Christianity, was charged with apostasy because, in a custody dispute, his wife had reported him to the authorities as a Christian. Had he been found guilty, according to the Hanafi school of jurisprudence (which is the form of Sharia in Afghanistan), Rahman would have had three days in which to recant; if he maintained his Christian beliefs, he would have been executed. But after enormous international pressure the judge dismissed his case on the ground that Rahman may have been mentally unstable, and under the procedural rules of Sharia, one cannot be convicted of a Hadd offense—the crimes for which God has affixed a set penalty (adultery, fornication, false charge of adultery, drinking wine, apostasy, theft, and robbery)—unless he is mentally competent. Rahman is now safe in Italy, albeit with his identity hidden for fear of assassination.

This was a quick and easy way out of the problem, because everyone knew that once he was released in Afghanistan, Rahman would have been murdered, likely by his family, and under Islamic law there is no liability for killing an apostate. Knowing this, the Afghan parliament protested Italy’s granting asylum to Rahman, thus robbing the people of Afghanistan of their opportunity for vigilante justice. Abdul Raoulf, a moderate member of the Ulama (legal fraternity), who himself had suffered persecution under the Taliban, said “We will call on the people to pull him into pieces so there’s nothing left.” Another top religious leader stated, “We must set an example, he must be hanged.”[1] Ordinary Afghans agreed. To them, a conversion to Christianity was an affront that had to be avenged. One of Rahman’s neighbors said “There is no way we’re going to allow an Afghan to insult us by becoming Christian.”[2] One resident of Kabul stated, “According to Islamic law, he should be sentenced to death because Christianity is forbidden in our land.”[3]

"

nice chaps.

This shows your absolute lack of understanding of Islam! Islam is a peace-loving religion! In this case the only problem was he was a Christian!

Edited August 31, 2006 by meemiathai

[keithbooth]

Islamaphobia. YOU BET ! ! ! a PERSON DOESN'T WANT TO GENERALIZE ABOUT A CERTAIN GRUOP AND LUMP A FEW BAD APPLES ACTIONS IN WITH THE GENERAL POPULATION OF THAT GROUP.

HOWEVER, THIS GROUP IT SEEMS HAS NO REGRET OR SHAME ABOUT WHAT HARM IS BROUGHT TO OTHERS.

I HAVE SEEN THE THAI POLCE IN ACTION. MOST THAI MEN ARE PASSIVE GOOD PEOPLE. BUT I HAVE SEEN THAI POLICE IN ACTION, ONCE PROVOKED OR REQUIRED TO DO A JOB, NO ONE IS MORE SERIOUS OR DANGEROUS THAN A THAI SOLDIER OR POLICEMEN.

SOI HOPE THE GOVERNMENT USES THIS FEIRCE FIGHTING SPIRIT AND DETERMINATION TO PUT DOWN AND STOP ANY MOVEMENT IN ITS TRACKS.

I HAVE ONE VERY DEAR MID-EAST MUSLIM FREIND, AND I WOULD TRUST HIM WITH MY LIFE MY MONEY ETC... BUT EVERY OTHER ARAB I HAVE MET, I DON'T TRUST -DON'T CARE FOR, AND CAN SEE THEY WOULD NOT STAND UP FOR ME IN A BAD SITUATION WITH OTHER ARABS/MUSLIMS.

THIS GEORGE BUSH GUY HAS MADE ALOT OF MISTAKES, BUT I HOPE HE F----ING CRUSHES THE ISLAMIST FASCHIST THAT NOW THREATEN NEARLY EVERY COUNTRY AND THE ENTIRE WORLD

Keith this is a bigger issue than can be argued from personal experiences of Arabs or Muslims or Jains or Sikhs or Mormons or Thai cops or whatall. The Thai military is not the solution here...its heavy-handed tactics are very much part of the problem and very much part of the resentment that exists in the South. Your views about George Bush and the Muslim world are pure FOXXXX & CNNNNNNN propaganda...straight from the mouth of the O'Really Malefactor...don't believe all you see on TV...meet many many Thai Muslims and get to know them and get back to us..............

[/quote

Thanks Fruitty, I'll make a point of that, but if I die in one of my meeting with a Thai Muslim- I'll kill you. Just kidding.

Good Post Thanks

[fruittbatt]

Lucky for you Thailand is not Islamic:

"In March 2006, Abdul Rahman, an Afghan who converted to Christianity, was charged with apostasy because, in a custody dispute, his wife had reported him to the authorities as a Christian. Had he been found guilty, according to the Hanafi school of jurisprudence (which is the form of Sharia in Afghanistan), Rahman would have had three days in which to recant; if he maintained his Christian beliefs, he would have been executed. But after enormous international pressure the judge dismissed his case on the ground that Rahman may have been mentally unstable, and under the procedural rules of Sharia, one cannot be convicted of a Hadd offense—the crimes for which God has affixed a set penalty (adultery, fornication, false charge of adultery, drinking wine, apostasy, theft, and robbery)—unless he is mentally competent. Rahman is now safe in Italy, albeit with his identity hidden for fear of assassination.

This was a quick and easy way out of the problem, because everyone knew that once he was released in Afghanistan, Rahman would have been murdered, likely by his family, and under Islamic law there is no liability for killing an apostate. Knowing this, the Afghan parliament protested Italy’s granting asylum to Rahman, thus robbing the people of Afghanistan of their opportunity for vigilante justice. Abdul Raoulf, a moderate member of the Ulama (legal fraternity), who himself had suffered persecution under the Taliban, said “We will call on the people to pull him into pieces so there’s nothing left.” Another top religious leader stated, “We must set an example, he must be hanged.”[1] Ordinary Afghans agreed. To them, a conversion to Christianity was an affront that had to be avenged. One of Rahman’s neighbors said “There is no way we’re going to allow an Afghan to insult us by becoming Christian.”[2] One resident of Kabul stated, “According to Islamic law, he should be sentenced to death because Christianity is forbidden in our land.”[3]

"

nice chaps.

There is absolutely no chance of thailand becoming an Islamic country in the forseeable future: pure red herring! AND OTT

[fruittbatt]

Islamaphobia. YOU BET ! ! ! a PERSON DOESN'T WANT TO GENERALIZE ABOUT A CERTAIN GRUOP AND LUMP A FEW BAD APPLES ACTIONS IN WITH THE GENERAL POPULATION OF THAT GROUP.

HOWEVER, THIS GROUP IT SEEMS HAS NO REGRET OR SHAME ABOUT WHAT HARM IS BROUGHT TO OTHERS.

I HAVE SEEN THE THAI POLCE IN ACTION. MOST THAI MEN ARE PASSIVE GOOD PEOPLE. BUT I HAVE SEEN THAI POLICE IN ACTION, ONCE PROVOKED OR REQUIRED TO DO A JOB, NO ONE IS MORE SERIOUS OR DANGEROUS THAN A THAI SOLDIER OR POLICEMEN.

SOI HOPE THE GOVERNMENT USES THIS FEIRCE FIGHTING SPIRIT AND DETERMINATION TO PUT DOWN AND STOP ANY MOVEMENT IN ITS TRACKS.

I HAVE ONE VERY DEAR MID-EAST MUSLIM FREIND, AND I WOULD TRUST HIM WITH MY LIFE MY MONEY ETC... BUT EVERY OTHER ARAB I HAVE MET, I DON'T TRUST -DON'T CARE FOR, AND CAN SEE THEY WOULD NOT STAND UP FOR ME IN A BAD SITUATION WITH OTHER ARABS/MUSLIMS.

THIS GEORGE BUSH GUY HAS MADE ALOT OF MISTAKES, BUT I HOPE HE F----ING CRUSHES THE ISLAMIST FASCHIST THAT NOW THREATEN NEARLY EVERY COUNTRY AND THE ENTIRE WORLD

Keith this is a bigger issue than can be argued from personal experiences of Arabs or Muslims or Jains or Sikhs or Mormons or Thai cops or whatall. The Thai military is not the solution here...its heavy-handed tactics are very much part of the problem and very much part of the resentment that exists in the South. Your views about George Bush and the Muslim world are pure FOXXXX & CNNNNNNN propaganda...straight from the mouth of the O'Really Malefactor...don't believe all you see on TV...meet many many Thai Muslims and get to know them and get back to us..............

[/quote

Thanks Fruitty, I'll make a point of that, but if I die in one of my meeting with a Thai Muslim- I'll kill you. Just kidding.

Good Post Thanks

Cheers Keith...and reckon you are pretty safe ...especially in the North..

[Johpa]

]

Apparently you don't know much about the history of the region! These people have little in common with the Thai people historically, culturally, liguistically etc. The land was ceded to Thailand in 1902. They feel more ties with Malaysia but feel abandoned by them too.

Therefore your simplistic observations that boil down to nothing but an anti-muslim rant just don't make sense!

There is no easy solution to this issue which makes me sad!

The other thing that is bothering me is that the few folks that are doing this are getting more organized and ramping things up pretty quickly

To say that there is "little in common" between the Malays and the Thais is not correct. There is much in common between the larger lowland communities of Southeast Asia. Clearly there was a divergence between the the island populations and the mainland when Islam replaced Hinduism and Buddhism. But there is some commonality in history and culture.

To say that the South feels abandoned by Malaysia for something that happened over a century ago doesn't ring 100% accurate as the South was not always in such duress. It was not all that many years ago that the South was a peaceful laid back region of rice farmers who have always been free to speak Malay and practice Islam. The people in the South got a far better deal from the Bangkok folks than did the Lao in Isaan. But I do agree there is no easy solution to this irredentist problem in light of modern Islamic fundmentalism. To deny the role of the Wahabi (Saudi) sponsored Madrasahs in Malaysia over the past few decades upon the current antagonisms down south is but to bury ones head in the sand.

And please do not interpret this as an anti-Muslim rant.

[fruittbatt]

But I do agree there is no easy solution to this irredentist problem in light of modern Islamic fundmentalism. To deny the role of the Wahabi (Saudi) sponsored Madrasahs in Malaysia over the past few decades upon the current antagonisms down south is but to bury ones head in the sand.

And please do not interpret this as an anti-Muslim rant.

thanks for the new word "irredentist": advocacy of restoration of these states to the territory to Malaysia...

Would you be so kind as to elaborate your claim re the role of the Wahabi Madrasahs...I am genuinely interested in this recent history

[RalphS]

Wouldn't the world be a whole lot more peaceful without the Islam religion. As inoffensive as the religion is supposed to be it's followers seem to contradict it at every opportunity.

I know I will get slammed for this. In my opinion, I would state it a little better, "Wouldn't the world be a whole lot more peaceful without religion?"

[Plus]

Pattani used to be a kingdom on its own, and their language is a not straight Malay, it's a local dialect, Yawi, and it's written in arabic, not roman letters.

Low level insurgency has been going on forever, those PULO or Bersatu leaders interviewed by western press are the previous generation fighters, before them there were others. Pattani sided with British during WWII, not with Japanese, like Thailand, after the war their leader was arrested and killed.

How much trust right now there is in the police and the government ..... among Bangkokians??? How much do you expect in the South? Thailand is viewed as a failed state here (according to Anand), it has been a failed state there for years.

[opothai]

as i have been lambasted in the past for being a racist and a bigot, we shall start as our pc correct friends would wish.

our FRIENDS the muslim community down south are misunderstood and fighting a very worthy cause along with other muslims to create a better world for us to live in.

now who the he+l am i and others to critisize thier actions.

remember other well intentioned people who started persecutions and were not stopped until it was to late.

one thing throughout history and indeed today is if you want to bring a nation or religion together you must create a common goal that can gather pace and get stronger,

our good friends the muslims have secured this over the past 10 years or so because we have let them take the initiative from us by not speaking out and punishing the wrong doers until it is to late,

they now have strenghth, backing, and support from the wide muslim communities through out the world.

now i fear it is to late for a compromise,

the common goal that unites our understanding good friends the muslim is of course any one that is not muslim, easy really.

well JD was that ok,

if we tell things as they really are we get stopped in our tracks for critisizing a MINORITY religious people oh and generalising,

the sad reallity is that now it is not big news it is just taken for GRANTED as normal

god i just love these muslims don't YOU

[ace]

.....no sane person condones the actions of militant extremists who bomb, kill, booby-trap, mine, shoot innocent civilians. It is not "PC" to refuse to brand people according to their religious beliefs.... If every terrorist was labelled according to their religious beliefs the howls of protest from Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and Jews would be long and loud....and equally justified. See Plus's post for a good summary of some of the political and economic reasons for disaffection in the south. ...

I can't let that stand. You are equating Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and Jews with Islamic terrorism? That's wrong, and insulting.

And don't start telling us about "in the 11th century Christians...blah...blah" using that rational I will fly over to Germany tommorow and start the slaughter, then France, Russia..take your pick.

People can fall to far to the "left" as well as the "right".

[dog412]

Lucky for you Thailand is not Islamic:

"In March 2006, Abdul Rahman, an Afghan who converted to Christianity, was charged with apostasy because, in a custody dispute, his wife had reported him to the authorities as a Christian. Had he been found guilty, according to the Hanafi school of jurisprudence (which is the form of Sharia in Afghanistan), Rahman would have had three days in which to recant; if he maintained his Christian beliefs, he would have been executed. But after enormous international pressure the judge dismissed his case on the ground that Rahman may have been mentally unstable, and under the procedural rules of Sharia, one cannot be convicted of a Hadd offense—the crimes for which God has affixed a set penalty (adultery, fornication, false charge of adultery, drinking wine, apostasy, theft, and robbery)—unless he is mentally competent. Rahman is now safe in Italy, albeit with his identity hidden for fear of assassination.

This was a quick and easy way out of the problem, because everyone knew that once he was released in Afghanistan, Rahman would have been murdered, likely by his family, and under Islamic law there is no liability for killing an apostate. Knowing this, the Afghan parliament protested Italy’s granting asylum to Rahman, thus robbing the people of Afghanistan of their opportunity for vigilante justice. Abdul Raoulf, a moderate member of the Ulama (legal fraternity), who himself had suffered persecution under the Taliban, said “We will call on the people to pull him into pieces so there’s nothing left.” Another top religious leader stated, “We must set an example, he must be hanged.”[1] Ordinary Afghans agreed. To them, a conversion to Christianity was an affront that had to be avenged. One of Rahman’s neighbors said “There is no way we’re going to allow an Afghan to insult us by becoming Christian.”[2] One resident of Kabul stated, “According to Islamic law, he should be sentenced to death because Christianity is forbidden in our land.”[3]

"

nice chaps.

There is absolutely no chance of thailand becoming an Islamic country in the forseeable future: pure red herring! AND OTT

even "moderate" malaysia seems to be refusing "conversion" out of islam.

[fruittbatt]

.....no sane person condones the actions of militant extremists who bomb, kill, booby-trap, mine, shoot innocent civilians. It is not "PC" to refuse to brand people according to their religious beliefs.... If every terrorist was labelled according to their religious beliefs the howls of protest from Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and Jews would be long and loud....and equally justified. See Plus's post for a good summary of some of the political and economic reasons for disaffection in the south. ...

I can't let that stand. You are equating Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and Jews with Islamic terrorism? That's wrong, and insulting.

And don't start telling us about "in the 11th century Christians...blah...blah" using that rational I will fly over to Germany tommorow and start the slaughter, then France, Russia..take your pick.

People can fall to far to the "left" as well as the "right".

The issue here is the definiton of what constitutes "terrorism". IMO the actions of the United States and its allies are the most frightening example of terrorism on this planet. Not content with the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and their arming (arms sales: huge earner) of Israel against Lebanon and Palestine, they now seek to rogue-state Iran because it wants to develop nuclear plants. Say whaat? What right do these countries have to intervene in internal politics, to start wars, to leave certain countries even more unstable and vulnerable in the aftermath of war than they were under dictatorial regimes?

I am saying that the US and its allies are a FAR MORE real and dangerous threat to world peace than the Muslims they choose to demonize as a pathetic sideshow to distract attention from what is really going on under our smug Western noses.

The focus on "Muslim" when talking about extremism and terrorism in the South is not merely a description of a person's religion, it is a very politically loaded term in the current context of the West's and many Thais' Islamophobia. It is a way of putting local problems into a much more significant "global" basket, and eliciting anti-Muslim feelings, which, in turn makes the Thai government look like good guys no matter how they approach the problem.

[dog412]

.....no sane person condones the actions of militant extremists who bomb, kill, booby-trap, mine, shoot innocent civilians. It is not "PC" to refuse to brand people according to their religious beliefs.... If every terrorist was labelled according to their religious beliefs the howls of protest from Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and Jews would be long and loud....and equally justified. See Plus's post for a good summary of some of the political and economic reasons for disaffection in the south. ...

I can't let that stand. You are equating Christians and Hindus and Buddhists and Jews with Islamic terrorism? That's wrong, and insulting.

And don't start telling us about "in the 11th century Christians...blah...blah" using that rational I will fly over to Germany tommorow and start the slaughter, then France, Russia..take your pick.

People can fall to far to the "left" as well as the "right".

The issue here is the definiton of what constitutes "terrorism". IMO the actions of the United States and its allies are the most frightening example of terrorism on this planet. Not content with the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and their arming (arms sales: huge earner) of Israel against Lebanon and Palestine, they now seek to rogue-state Iran because it wants to develop nuclear plants. Say whaat? What right do these countries have to intervene in internal politics, to start wars, to leave certain countries even more unstable and vulnerable in the aftermath of war than they were under dictatorial regimes?

I am saying that the US and its allies are a FAR MORE real and dangerous threat to world peace than the Muslims they choose to demonize as a pathetic sideshow to distract attention from what is really going on under our smug Western noses.

The focus on "Muslim" when talking about extremism and terrorism in the South is not merely a description of a person's religion, it is a very politically loaded term in the current context of the West's and many Thais' Islamophobia. It is a way of putting local problems into a much more significant "global" basket, and eliciting anti-Muslim feelings, which, in turn makes the Thai government look like good guys no matter how they approach the problem.

maybe you should "quote" exactly who you believe are not the u.s. allies in this particular scenario. as you state thailand is an ally.the philippines also. japan yes. china ain't going to put up with any of this religious crap. india is getting nailed also. and the poor balinese, well i don't expect you to have compassion for them. russia got it's own problem with these "folks". etc. etc. etc. the only people who agree with islam are islam.

[Nam Kao]

>>>Now is the time. If they want their independence just let tham have it! Once they have it offer no trade or business ties and see how long it takes before they come crawling back.

THEY WANT THE WHOLE WORLD !!

read the Quran

[Rdrokit]

Ok I will have to put my 2 cents in.

First what do these militants want. There own state, won't happen but Thailand can make some concessions. I lived in southern California where the Caucasians are the minority. The Spanish speaking people living there (most from Mexico) were very upset about everything being in English and most of the Spanish speaking people were lost. What happened was that the schools became biligual, the department stores became biligual some of the signage became biligual and Spanish speaking individuals were elected to local goverment posts. Could something like this happen in Southern Thailand? Would it make the militants happy?

[animatic]

Islam per se isn't at fault.

It is just far too often mis-intepreted

to effect a greater power for men or a man,

in their current affairs

than is written in any Koran verses.

The majority of this small minority of violent muslems

are following a long chain of edicts/fatwahs from men,

over centuries, stating with devout belief that

only THEIR interpretaion is correct.

These fatwahs are often in direct conflict with each other.

So local imans on the ground decide to pick and choose

to fit their purposes.

So we see many many different sects and sub-sects ,

besides the often warring <deleted> and Suni divisions.

It has been difficult to get muslems to agree,

ever since Imman Hussein died centuries ago.

These bomb people are half fringe sect zeolots

and half inept political manipulators.

They can't bring about positive change by dialog,

because they just don't have the skills.

And they are continuousaly indoctrinating new prospects,

with little access to alternate thought.

This is not the fault of islamic schools,

but individuals with an axe to grind.

So they try to make the powers that be look Machiavellian,

in a effort to stamp out global islam.

And build their point of view up locally.

While imagining it is a belief truely held world wide.

It would all be so pathetic if so many people weren't

being killed and injured, based on false theology.

Yes there seems an anti-army component to this timing.

But still indiscriminant against all people.

Very much agaisnt the Koran's teachings.

If the south were allowed to elect their own governing choices more directly,

these same zaeolots would start killing anybody running for seats,

as Quizling collaborators.

Of cousre THEY couldn't govern a village without a total melt down.

There are christian zeolots too,

and the same goes for any religion's sects.

In the USA there are thousands of little "churches"

each with a few thousand followers, spread over a region.

Each is JUST as convinced that their lead pastor is

the ONLY TRUE LIGHT.

Some get quite violent against those "polluting society".

From short skirts to gays to absortion Drs.

to anti-poligamist government agents.

Islam as no monopoly on irrational behavior,

in the name of faith in a diety.

MOST muslem people are rational, unbrain-washed,

and willing to live and let live,

as long as less strict interpretations of how to live life,

are not rammed down their throuts.

Whether one religion or another is a better choice for life is

a debate for the ages, as long as it stays debate,

and not physical attack.

Alas mankind has too long a history of

intollerance towards competing philosophies,

to go quietly into the calm good night.

A sad commentary on the human condistion.

Edited August 31, 2006 by animatic

[keithbooth]

Islam per se isn't at fault.

It is just far too often mis-intepreted

to effect a greater power for men or a man,

in their current affairs

than is written in any Koran verses.

The majority of this small minority of violent muslems

are following a long chain of edicts/fatwahs from men,

over centuries, stating with devout belief that

only THEIR interpretaion is correct.

These fatwahs are often in direct conflict with each other.

So local imans on the ground decide to pick and choose

to fit their purposes.

So we see many many different sects and sub-sects ,

besides the often warring <deleted> and Suni divisions.

It has been difficult to get muslems to agree,

ever since Imman Hussein died centuries ago.

OKAY, YOU HAD ME UNTILL YOU MENTIONED THE CHURCHES IN THE U.S....THE NUMBER OF MURDERS AMONGST THE LOCAL CHURCHES WHO MAY DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHERS TEACHINGS, IS ABOUT "ZERO"...THE NUMBER OF MURDERS AMONGST <deleted> MUSLIM SECTS AND SUNNI SECTS IS ABOUT 10,000 TIMES THAT NUMBER. SERIOUSLY I DON'T KNOW EXACT STATS ON HOW MANY MUSLIMS KILL ANOTHER MUSLIM DAILY AROUND THE WORLD BUT I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 150-250 HOURLY AND THAT WOULD BE WOULD BE VERY LOW. ESPECIALLY IF YOU TAKE SUDAN INTO CONSIDERATION.I WISH I WASN'T BIAS, AND I WISH I DIDN'T HAVE A SLANTED VIEW, HOWEVER WHERE I GREW UP THERE WAS A CONSIDERABLE ARAB POPULATION, AND THEY WERE ALWAYS RUDE, ALWAYS COMBATIVE, AND I KNOW A LITTLE ABOUT HOW MOHAMMED DEVELOPTED HIS TOWN OF REFUGE AND HOW THESE MUSLIMS FORMED TO FIGHT OFF OTHER MUSLIMS WHO MIGHT ATTACK THEM. THATS NOT THE EXACT HISTORY, BUT FACE IT THEY ARE A COMBATIVE ANTAGONISTIC RACE. SOME POEPLE EQUATE ITALIANS TO PASSIONATE LOVERS,-IRISH AS ALCHOHOL DRINKERS-ETC..ETC...LAST POINT THE U.S.A DOES SEEM TO STICK THEIR NOSE IN EVERYONE'S BUSINESS, "SPREADING DEMOCRACY"..LOL...I THINK THERE ARE ALWAYS HIDDEN MOTIVES, BUT THE ROOT OF ANYU INTRUSION INTO ANOTHER COUNTRIES BUSINESS, IS TO HELP, WHERE THE U.S. GOV., INTERPRETS INJUSTICE. NO ONE COMPLAINS WHEN THE U.S.A. COMES TO THE RESCUE IN NATURAL DISASTERS AND CATASTROPHES AROUND THE WORLD. THE U.S.A. POURS BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS (THAT THE U.S. PEOPLE PAY FOR THRU TAXES-I MIGHT ADD) INTO MANY 3RD WORLD NATIONS AND HAS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS ALL OVER THE WORLD.... THOUGHTS IN U.S. ARE IF WE DON'T DO IT WHO WILL?...AND I POSE THAT QUESTION TO YOU. IF THE U.S. DOESN'T DO IT WHO WILL?..INCLUDING RIGHTING INJUSTICE AND CHALLENGING COUNTRIES WHO WOULD ONE DAY WANT TO EITHER CONVERT ALL TO ISLAM OR DESTROY THE INFIDEL...................................REALLY EXCELLENT RANT- I THINK..................

These bomb people are half fringe sect zeolots

and half inept political manipulators.

They can't bring about positive change by dialog,

because they just don't have the skills.

And they are continuousaly indoctrinating new prospects,

with little access to alternate thought.

This is not the fault of islamic schools,

but individuals with an axe to grind.

So they try to make the powers that be look Machiavellian,

in a effort to stamp out global islam.

And build their point of view up locally.

While imagining it is a belief truely held world wide.

It would all be so pathetic if so many people weren't

being killed and injured, based on false theology.

Yes there seems an anti-army component to this timing.

But still indiscriminant against all people.

Very much agaisnt the Koran's teachings.

If the south were allowed to elect their own governing choices more directly,

these same zaeolots would start killing anybody running for seats,

as Quizling collaborators.

Of cousre THEY couldn't govern a village without a total melt down.

There are christian zeolots too,

and the same goes for any religion's sects.

In the USA there are thousands of little "churches"

each with a few thousand followers, spread over a region.

Each is JUST as convinced that their lead pastor is

the ONLY TRUE LIGHT.

Some get quite violent against those "polluting society".

From short skirts to gays to absortion Drs.

to anti-poligamist government agents.

Islam as no monopoly on irrational behavior,

in the name of faith in a diety.

MOST muslem people are rational, unbrain-washed,

and willing to live and let live,

as long as less strict interpretations of how to live life,

are not rammed down their throuts.

Whether one religion or another is a better choice for life is

a debate for the ages, as long as it stays debate,

and not physical attack.

Alas mankind has too long a history of

intollerance towards competing philosophies,

to go quietly into the calm good night.

A sad commentary on the human condistion.

[sendbaht]

"Makes me proud that I don't believe in any religion."

AMEN!

[Richard W]

Check your history before making statements like that. Somewhere around 700 BC Arabs developed gold as legal tender, due to their discovery that the purity of gold could be determined with the discovery of the touchstone (in Lydia).

You check too.

What did the Arabs have to do with Lydia? I haven't even heard that the touchstone was a Phoenician, let alone an Arab invention. Lydia is in Western Turkey.

For 1000 years, while most of Europe was scraping out a living, Alexandria was the center of the world, both in commerce and eduction. The knowledge that we have today about Greek and Roman scholars exists because of the great library at Alexandria. And most of it was lost when the warring factions expanded from Europe to the Middle East.

That thousand years closes around the time of the Arab conquest of Egypt from the Roman Empire, though I rather suspect it was already in decline before then.

However, it is true that triumphant Arab culture did pick up the torch, and add to the sum of human knowledge.

The numbering system we use is known as Arabic numerals. Sound familiar?

And what do the Arabs call them? It is curious though that some parts of India have resisted zero to this day. Unicode added zero to its encoding of the Tamil script because of its use in places like Malaysia!

[Alreadyinuse]

what are they hoping to accomplish with this stuff?

They are instigating a fight. If you ignore them or try to make peace, they keep instigating until your react. If you dare fight back, then they claim you are making war against Islam(!), which they can in turn, use to 1) justify more terrorist actions and 2) recruit other angry Muslim extremists to their cause. It's a catch 22...

Ultimately, they want to turn Thailand into part of the Islamic Super State, planned by Jemaah Islamiyah. Read the Wiki here.

Apparently you don't know much about the history of the region! These people have little in common with the Thai people historically, culturally, liguistically etc. The land was ceded to Thailand in 1902. They feel more ties with Malaysia but feel abandoned by them too.

Therefore your simplistic observations that boil down to nothing but an anti-muslim rant just don't make sense!

There is no easy solution to this issue which makes me sad!

The other thing that is bothering me is that the few folks that are doing this are getting more organized and ramping things up pretty quickly

Youre right, and I certainly do not know all there is to know about the situation in Yalla and there are major differences between southern of Thailand and middle east. I am not anti muslim.

I am merely looking at the actions themselves, isnt that the key thing?

What have they accomplished by these actions, isnt the only thing gained the rage of the entire planet?

And by continuing this b..sh.. way of life, they are also eliminating all peaceful solutions that could have come from a more diplomatic approach. I still hope for a peaceful ending of the conflict down there however this only leaves fragments of hope left.

I do have friends that are muslim and are wonderful people, no difference between them or any other of my friends.

Cheers

[englishoak]

Religion has been hijacked (again) as an excuse to do everything but what it was intended for. A guide to be kind and think of others. That is to say it is supposed to encourage the good in people.

It hardly matters what your god is, there is a common ground that it is wrong to harm the innocent. It seems that through the millennia there are times when holy wars are the excuse used to harm others. The extreme of this is currently in Iraq where Muslim brothers are killing each other just because of the difference in faction of the same religion We know that the Catholics and Christians went through a similar period earlier in history.

Bottom line is if you wish or do harm to a fellow human being (or animal) you are not being true to your chosen faith. You are being false and showing the darkest not the animal side of humanity. You become the lowest of the low. Think about it, no animal goes out of its way to plan and willfully do harm to others of its own species. This is only a human trait and one that has been with us since the beginning.

This is I believe the reason religion was brought into being. A form of control if you like and one that has been badly needed throughout history.

The problem is that I doubt very much if most people today who follow their faiths really believe they will be judged at the end by what they do in their life. Some faiths even give a get out by giving merit or confession.

When I hear about Yala terrorists or Tamil tigers or IRA whatever I just think there go another bunch of hypocrites in the name of their supposed religion. How very sad if they really think that if there is a god then they are doing what he wants. Of course we all know god has absolutely nothing to do with it other than a lame excuse to hide behind. Possibly it’s the worst excuse of all.

Why can't people treat others how they WISH to be treated ? With kindness and respect.

Show me a sane human being who doesn’t want that and you are a liar my friend :jap

[ThaiLover1]

This does say a lot for the intelligence (or lack thereof) of these people.

Who thinks planting an explosive device in front of an ATM camera is the best place for a crime?!

Edited August 31, 2006 by ThaiLover1

[fruittbatt]

Islam per se isn't at fault.

It is just far too often mis-intepreted

to effect a greater power for men or a man,

in their current affairs

than is written in any Koran verses.

The majority of this small minority of violent muslems

are following a long chain of edicts/fatwahs from men,

over centuries, stating with devout belief that

only THEIR interpretaion is correct.

These fatwahs are often in direct conflict with each other.

So local imans on the ground decide to pick and choose

to fit their purposes.

So we see many many different sects and sub-sects ,

besides the often warring <deleted> and Suni divisions.

It has been difficult to get muslems to agree,

ever since Imman Hussein died centuries ago.

These bomb people are half fringe sect zeolots

and half inept political manipulators.

They can't bring about positive change by dialog,

because they just don't have the skills.

And they are continuousaly indoctrinating new prospects,

with little access to alternate thought.

This is not the fault of islamic schools,

but individuals with an axe to grind.

So they try to make the powers that be look Machiavellian,

in a effort to stamp out global islam.

And build their point of view up locally.

While imagining it is a belief truely held world wide.

It would all be so pathetic if so many people weren't

being killed and injured, based on false theology.

Yes there seems an anti-army component to this timing.

But still indiscriminant against all people.

Very much agaisnt the Koran's teachings.

If the south were allowed to elect their own governing choices more directly,

these same zaeolots would start killing anybody running for seats,

as Quizling collaborators.

Of cousre THEY couldn't govern a village without a total melt down.

There are christian zeolots too,

and the same goes for any religion's sects.

In the USA there are thousands of little "churches"

each with a few thousand followers, spread over a region.

Each is JUST as convinced that their lead pastor is

the ONLY TRUE LIGHT.

Some get quite violent against those "polluting society".

From short skirts to gays to absortion Drs.

to anti-poligamist government agents.

Islam as no monopoly on irrational behavior,

in the name of faith in a diety.

MOST muslem people are rational, unbrain-washed,

and willing to live and let live,

as long as less strict interpretations of how to live life,

are not rammed down their throuts.

Whether one religion or another is a better choice for life is

a debate for the ages, as long as it stays debate,

and not physical attack.

Alas mankind has too long a history of

intollerance towards competing philosophies,

to go quietly into the calm good night.

A sad commentary on the human condistion.

best summary I've read here....sad indeed that we are so distracted by the hateful sideshow that we don't even see the environmental armageddon just up the road...

[OzMan_Bkk]

I think we have to concede that the extreme elements in the south of Thailand will never be quashed. So the objective has to be to marginalise them by winning over the vast majority of people there who just want to live their lives. This includes not only education but economic prosperity.

I would propose to the government of Thailand that they take all the money spent of security, informers and such like and build the Kra Canal. The tender process should include the requirement that any business that wins a contract relocate to the lower three areas. That they also be given financial incentives to employ people from that area. Say, cancellation of the employer portion of the Social Security monthly payment. Also they be given withholding tax discounts on services purchased in the area, such as legal, accounting and other services.

Now the "south" is a Democrat stronghold so why, you ask, would our confrontational government want to improve things there. As identified by many posters here, this conflict has simmered for decades without resolution. How long, do you think, will it be before 23 banks are bombed in the heart of Bangkok. This got world-wide attention. What will the government do now, if anything ?

Just think about that as you wander down Silom or Sathorn and approach an ATM on your way to work next week........

[jdinasia]

spot on? what do all of the above have in common? nothing!

My point is that the word "Muslim" is bandied around by media and unthinking posters to this topic alike as a way to demonise Islam and identify that particular religion exclusively with terrorism. Yet "terrorists " are to be found in all religions. Get it now?

ummm..... it was the original article in the nation that said "muslim militants". are they wrong?

see above

and if so, does that mean that the religion of islam has had nothing at all to do with any of the violence in the south? is that what you are saying?

Yes, the militants in this case were almost certainly Muslim. The terrorists in Sri Lanka are Hindus but are never referred to in the media as such ....neither are any of those "terrorists" who represent religions other than Islam. You might like to consider why this is

fyi, in a post of mine that the moderator just admitted was mistakenly deleted, i acknowledged specifically that suicide bombing was not invented by muslims. it was the tamil tigers (who are ethnic nationalists) who first used this tactic; muslim terrorists have merely perfected it. and the catholic IRA (who are also nationalists; not religious extremists) certainly did plenty of bombing in its heyday.

but as for your above contention that muslims as a religion are singled out as terrorists unfairly, i have considered it carefully, and come to the conclusion that, well, it must be because so many muslim extremists (NOT NECESSARILY ALL MUSLIMS!!!) in so many countries kill in the name of their religion! how can you possibly argue that this is not true?

if your contention is that the troubles in the south are not related to radical islam at all, then i would like to know what all the killing of monks is for?

if this post gets deleted for being defamatory, then i simply give up.

ummmmm

Hate to tell ya ... but the folks in the 4 southern provinces are Nationalists too. Out of the deaths in the south how many have been monks? of those how many were killed for personal reasons versus nationalist reasons?

have you ever been to the far south of Thailand?

[niteowl]

Here's another consideration in the "Let them be independent" debate:

Thailand has made capital investments in the region over the years, on an ongoing basis. Things like roads, schools, government office buildings, court houses, sewage, water supply, etc., etc.

Normally, those investments are amortized over a period of 30 - 50 years. So, if the region is granted independence, who will be responsible for the unamortized improvements? Thai taxpayers? That doesn't seem fair. Residents of the new regions? Starting a new country with crippling foreign payments is a recipe for disaster (Haiti is one example, whose first official act was to close all schools.)

And, what of Thai businesses owned in the new country? I was watching the biography of Idi Amin on the History Channel. At one time, all foreigners in Uganda (mostly Indians) were given one month to get out. This act was actually quite popular with the local populace. It meant they could walk into an abandoned business, and take over. But in short order, every business, from the smallest restaurant to the national railroad, ceased to operate. The Ugandans had no idea how to operate these businesses. They hadn't prepared themselves to operate the businesses; only, to take them over by force.

[ozziebart]

It's about time that people start to remember how the Nazis started. If these people are allowed to run rampant they will. Their religion is irrelevant as are their religious leaders in the eyes of their maker. It doesn't matter what religion or flag they hide behind, they are nazi-like militants who use fear and terror to try and grapple some power. Remember that there is not injustice to compare to when good people stand idly by and allow this to happen. The Germans discovered this 67+ years ago.

[dog412]

spot on? what do all of the above have in common? nothing!

My point is that the word "Muslim" is bandied around by media and unthinking posters to this topic alike as a way to demonise Islam and identify that particular religion exclusively with terrorism. Yet "terrorists " are to be found in all religions. Get it now?

ummm..... it was the original article in the nation that said "muslim militants". are they wrong?

see above

and if so, does that mean that the religion of islam has had nothing at all to do with any of the violence in the south? is that what you are saying?

Yes, the militants in this case were almost certainly Muslim. The terrorists in Sri Lanka are Hindus but are never referred to in the media as such ....neither are any of those "terrorists" who represent religions other than Islam. You might like to consider why this is

fyi, in a post of mine that the moderator just admitted was mistakenly deleted, i acknowledged specifically that suicide bombing was not invented by muslims. it was the tamil tigers (who are ethnic nationalists) who first used this tactic; muslim terrorists have merely perfected it. and the catholic IRA (who are also nationalists; not religious extremists) certainly did plenty of bombing in its heyday.

but as for your above contention that muslims as a religion are singled out as terrorists unfairly, i have considered it carefully, and come to the conclusion that, well, it must be because so many muslim extremists (NOT NECESSARILY ALL MUSLIMS!!!) in so many countries kill in the name of their religion! how can you possibly argue that this is not true?

if your contention is that the troubles in the south are not related to radical islam at all, then i would like to know what all the killing of monks is for?

if this post gets deleted for being defamatory, then i simply give up.

ummmmm

Hate to tell ya ... but the folks in the 4 southern provinces are Nationalists too. Out of the deaths in the south how many have been monks? of those how many were killed for personal reasons versus nationalist reasons?

have you ever been to the far south of Thailand?

so, you are now saying that this is a concerted effort, "by the folks" in the 4 southern provinces, and not the actions of a "few" misguided extremists. nationalism is not what i would call this.

[Plus]

This thread became a free space for people to vent their pent up anger. Many posts don't even touch the topic, or Thailand at all.

In Southern California spanish speakers were from Mexico, and they got their language in schools, department stores etc.

In Southern Thailand Thai malays have lived their for centuries, and they can't even speak their language with government officials, let alone sign any legal papers.

Just a bit over a month ago Thai government refused to allow use of Malay as a working (not even official) language there.

How many official (not working) languages are in Malaysia, or Singapore? Three-four.

How do you expect people to react? Spit on their ancestors tombs and become "Thai"? They view militants as fighters for a right cause and Thais as extremely corrupt occupants who themselves perpetrate most of the violence and then blame it on muslims. They are convinced that it was Thais who started this new round back in 2001.