Thailand has highest household debt: Finance Minister

[NickJ]

So all this talk about registering the income of everyone in order to help them if they need it isnt true????

[laobali]

Headline is wrong and misleading... suggests that Thailand has the highest household debt in the world. No stats to support that. Instead, the article claims that household debt has increased the fastest in the world. That's possible, but what's the source report? Given such a politicised climate, we can't just accept something along the lines of "the Finance Minister says...". Also, growth rates can be misleading because they all depend on what your starting point is: going from 1% to 2% represents a 100% increase, while going from 50% to 75% represents only a 50% increase (though clearly the latter would be more concerning). p.s. I'm not disputing that HD is a serious problem (and an increasing one), but simply saying that I'd like to see the numbers.

And what would you do with them?

[ginjag]

Of course it is the army that created this mess---ha ha ha-----go and have a strong coffee.

Amazing post from a newbie ??? Target the army---I wonder why ?? another one joins the bashers.

I think you are making a little too much of the above post. The army does have a very large budget and he did not blame them for the crisis. I'll have a coffee if you've got the kettle on, though...

Not really mate, everyone is aware of the budgets here in Thailand, Education one of the highest in the world Population wise---and so on.

He indirectly implied that it was a main reason or else why did he not speak about a million other budgets. It was the ARMY he was targeting was it not ??? no one elses fault ???

They may have a large part of their budget allocated for Education, but I don't see them getting a good value on that money spent. After two years experiencing University graduates in their various workplaces, I'm not convinced they've actually been challenged to learn something, with the consequence of failure. They pay, they graduate, they have a 'degree' and are much more qualified to manipulate their smartphones and tablets and post on FaceBook, than actually know a thing about their freaking job.

The education input of funds never seems to get into the classes. It was like the rice---tablets---accounts near nil.

Far too many trips in a dozen mini buses with police escorts, education conferences at spa resorts.

In an Issan town education personnel went to Phuket for a seminar ?? . the local schools were short of staff --does this give an example of education money mishandled ??

[ginjag]

Amazing post from a newbie ??? Target the army---I wonder why ?? another one joins the bashers.

Of course it is the army that created this mess---ha ha ha-----go and have a strong coffee.

Let me think maybe because there are 1400 plus generals in the Thai army compared to 140 in the US armed forces, or maybe because their budget has had double digit growth while the country grew with single digits or maybe its the billions they spend on the BT 2000 or maybe its the aircraft carrier without aircraft or maybe it is the military that want to buy submarines in a sea thats 40 m deep. Bashing no, a reality check, yes. With an economy like this the military must tighten their belts and not buy more toys.

Another reality check, your agenda does not include the RICE--Tablets schools,--Water management--50 trips abroad by the sister of the stand in PM abroad ??--- agree to the point about toys etc BUT get real with YOUR balance of the economy and why it is in such a state------

The armed forces here have always enjoyed their toys so why pick on the PM to try to justify your argument.

Maybe this person mentioned I because he is the chosen one who will bring happiness and smiling faces to all. The fact that many will be broke and in debt for the rest of their life isn't important.

The last sentence speaks volumes---and who got the country in the S##t it's in over the last 3 years, something you 3 agenda posters forgot to mention AGAIN.

[lucky11]

He said the government is pinning its hopes on speeding up public investment projects at national and local levels. Spending through investment and routine expenditures would inject money into the economy.

This would, in turn, help families to repay loans and to have more spending money for consumption.

Nope. If it even succeeded it would only cause the average Thai to go out and borrow more.

You can't give people things without teaching them first how to properly use them. Look at what happened when you gave them automobiles and trucks, without first teaching them how to drive. Now you've been tempting them with credit card marketing where everyone is handsome and beautiful and smiling, without teaching them about compound interest.

You are way out of your depth, Mr. Minister.

Wasn't it Yingluck who gave them the cars and pick-ups as well as encouraging them to buy houses? Also, she encouraged them to grow 2 or 3 (if it was possible) rice paddies a year of inferior rice that attracted huge premiums (well in theory it should have) but we all know what happened!!

So this minister is out of his depth trying to deal with problems created by the previous government? This is like blaming a goalkeeper who is subbed on in the 80th minute for the loss of the game 6 - 1 when the score was 6 - 0 prior to his introduction!!

[Shiver]

Western consumerism on a developing world budget.

This was the whole idea of free trade to lift developing countries up to our level. Well its happened look at all the new cars on the streets here. Meanwhile we in the west are now sinking down to their level and soon big business will have a level wage field so they can pick and choose where they want to do business. Its a mugs game at best slanted in the favor of big business. We are all beggars on the sidelines looking for a handout. Its only going to get worse.

I think the car incentive was one of the most crazy ideas in so many ways. If they invested in infrastructure to run the cars on first (along with the guidelines of how to use the car responsibly) it would be a better approach than putting the cart before the horse. If the country as a whole can't afford that yet, then do without until it can. Next they'll be buying trains before there are tracks.

When I'm muttering with a beer complaining about anything and everything, I often think that if the only cars allowed on the road were the ones that were at least 50% paid for, we'd have a much better traffic and pollution status. To create some incentive, the number plates could have a merit mark or star to show off to everyone that it's paid for. I'm only half joking there.

[Edit: I quoted the wrong post above, but I don't seem to be able to change that after the event]

Edited March 31, 2015 by Shiver

[mommysboy]

Govt is pinning its hopes on public spending projects,<deleted> !!! it has not dispersed the yearly public spending budget in a timely fashion let alone anything else.!

[Mcffee]

'My Vigo is newer and bigger then your Vigo'

[paddyjenkins]

It took me 15 years to get the inlaws and wife to understand that credit is the devil's invention. And belief me some heated arguments arose in those years. I never bulged and never gave in. 15 years of hard work, a simple but decent life within our budgets (arai na?) changed us from debt slaves into a family with property, land, cars, and enough money for our kids to study,all debt and mortgage free. Are we rich? Not at all, we just take our finances serious and everyone chips in and is involved in budgetting. Thailand's economy is going to be hit big times I'm afraid, high value Baht, high debt ratios and low domestic spendings. Combined with already 2 governments who's ideas about pubLic investment are irrelevant high speed trains, the omens are written on the wall. Better prepare yourself and pay off your debts as fast as you can.

I would like to ask the economists among us whether we are heading to a 97 like crisis?

No. This debt bubble is mainly from domestic sources. Crisis would be similar to what is happening in China.

Yes but the Yuan is only getting stronger and stronger. And so is the Baht. Doesn't a debt bubble lead to a devaluation of the currency? I am not really pleased with the present price of the Baht!

Historically a high enough rise in household debt had led to currency weakness. Initially the rising debt leads to higher domestic consumption and this acts as fuel to drive the economy forward and the currency is strong too. But usually the debt binge leads into a period of economic stagnation and currency weakness. I believe in the case of Thailand we are now seeing the in between stage. Edited March 31, 2015 by paddyjenkins

[apetley]

True story.

A young man in Bkk with a reasonable job 20k has been scrambling around for 3 months to get the money for a Toyata Yaris he ordered, needing around 50K deposit, He was well happy with the terms offered 9,500 Bht a month for 7 years.

4,000 bht for room rent, petrol and upkeep of the Yaris, his food for the month, and drink + plus pleasure. SAVINGS ???? NIL.

Not forgetting internet for facebook and, i phone.

True story. Friend of wifey's, a teaching asst has just bought a Vigo pickup. Earns 10k a month. Repayments are 7k a month over 7 years. I'll be impressed if he still owns it in a years time. Edited March 31, 2015 by apetley

[paddyjenkins]

True story.

A young man in Bkk with a reasonable job 20k has been scrambling around for 3 months to get the money for a Toyata Yaris he ordered, needing around 50K deposit, He was well happy with the terms offered 9,500 Bht a month for 7 years.

4,000 bht for room rent, petrol and upkeep of the Yaris, his food for the month, and drink + plus pleasure. SAVINGS ???? NIL.

Not forgetting internet for facebook and, i phone.

True story. Friend of wifey's, a teaching asst has just bought a Vigo pickup. Earns 10k a month. Repayments are 7k a month over 7 years. I'll be impressed if he still owns it in a years time.

Some of these types are turning tricks on the side and I'm not joking

[ginjag]

Another reality check, your agenda does not include the RICE--Tablets schools,--Water management--50 trips abroad by the sister of the stand in PM abroad ??--- agree to the point about toys etc BUT get real with YOUR balance of the economy and why it is in such a state------

The armed forces here have always enjoyed their toys so why pick on the PM to try to justify your argument.

I don't think he said anything about the PM. He seemed to be referencing the army's budget. And why would his agenda include the rice scheme, tablets, Yingluck's travels or anything else that happened in the past? Yes, those may be contributing factors (I think you really betray your agenda by mentioning 50 trips which are a pittance in terms of the GDP of Thailand) but Thailand's problems can only be solved by the actions you can take today. You can cut the army budget. You cannot go back and change money already spent. Unlike everything that you mentioned, the Thai military still exists so it is logical to point out the excesses as those excesses can still drag the economy down.

It is quite clear you are in denial of facts that contributed to the disaster Thailand is in. Defending a person who is clearly using the army for the countries predicament and PM -Army basher. I agree the armed forces have a large slice. You can go back and re-claim monies not spent --as you put it, admitting there is a strong case for this.

It was not merely the 50 trips it was 3 years of complete negligence on behalf of the PM and PTP. Look for other remedies rather than army bashing.

[JOC]

Ginjag, after all your hard work today, please allow me to buy you a drink!!

Even managed to find your favorite brand. Cheers!!

[Loptr]

The soaring debt is one of the major economic woes and the government has to rule out consumption-led stimulus measures, Sommai said.

Well, they blew the bubble in the first place... Let's hope they are not as stupid as their western counterparts and follow the above plan...

[ExPratt]

"He said the government is pinning its hopes on speeding up public investment projects at national and local levels. Spending through investment and routine expenditures would inject money into the economy"

If hes including Railway projects and work for local Thais , I would guess it will be cheap foreign Labour through agencies. They don't have anywhere near enough people with Railway experience for projects of that size so even the mid and senior Management of the construction will be foreigners

[LuckyLew]

wow hoo ... thailand is number one !!!!

[ginjag]

Ginjag, after all your hard work today, please allow me to buy you a drink!!

Even managed to find your favorite brand. Cheers!!

hardknott-rhetoric 2.jpg

Your quite used to the drink as you know what to buy people.

My 6 posts or so today you call hard work ???

Look at the new comer brigade just drafted in with the same agenda---bash the army--next week they are gone and re placed with others most with 100 posts--and a profile that is blank. to add they look at all TVF members profiles. strange.

Back on topic JOC, If we all said it is the army's fault the money crisis no newbies would post. enjoy.

[Docno]

Headline is wrong and misleading... suggests that Thailand has the highest household debt in the world. No stats to support that. Instead, the article claims that household debt has increased the fastest in the world. That's possible, but what's the source report? Given such a politicised climate, we can't just accept something along the lines of "the Finance Minister says...". Also, growth rates can be misleading because they all depend on what your starting point is: going from 1% to 2% represents a 100% increase, while going from 50% to 75% represents only a 50% increase (though clearly the latter would be more concerning). p.s. I'm not disputing that HD is a serious problem (and an increasing one), but simply saying that I'd like to see the numbers.

And what would you do with them?

Well, for one thing, compare them to other publicly available data on Thailand as well as parallel data for other countries so I can evaluate the claims. If things are muddy, I would get the input of an economist friend at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies at my uni. I'm sorry, I'm not a 'man of faith'. Hope that clarifies....

[NCC1701A]

World War is next. Might be five years. Party on.

[kingalfred]

And newly built condos up for sale from 6-12 million baht in bangkok. Who has the money to buy?

[retsdon]

The ARMY needs a lot of budget. ......

Amazing post from a newbie ??? Target the army---I wonder why ?? another one joins the bashers.

Of course it is the army that created this mess---ha ha ha-----go and have a strong coffee.

I think you are making a little too much of the above post. The army does have a very large budget and he did not blame them for the crisis. I'll have a coffee if you've got the kettle on, though...

Not really mate, everyone is aware of the budgets here in Thailand, Education one of the highest in the world Population wise---and so on.

He indirectly implied that it was a main reason or else why did he not speak about a million other budgets. It was the ARMY he was targeting was it not ??? no one elses fault ???

They may have a large part of their budget allocated for Education, but I don't see them getting a good value on that money spent. After two years experiencing University graduates in their various workplaces, I'm not convinced they've actually been challenged to learn something, with the consequence of failure. They pay, they graduate, they have a 'degree' and are much more qualified to manipulate their smartphones and tablets and post on FaceBook, than actually know a thing about their freaking job.

I worked in Thai education for a while. The money all gets stolen. What actually gets spent on EDUCATION is pitiful - a tiny fraction of what is supposedly allocated. And that was the situation before Taksin was ever elected. It was ever thus.

[Throatwobbler]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

>>In order to boost public spending, the Finance Ministry is mulling ways to increase the efficiency of tax collection in order to finance investment projects.<< Quote

So according to Thai logic, decreasing peoples disposable income will make them able to spend more!!

Makes sense........................ alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

OMG is that what you understood that quote to mean.

[Plutojames88]

World War is next. Might be five years. Party on.

This comment could easily be glossed over and quickly dismissed as flippant .

However it carries more gravity when placed in an economic social political context.

Religious too.

The shifting plates of external forces globally and the rise of China.

Aggressive Russian power plays.

Middle eastern nightmares.

ISIS .

Pakistan and its internal shifts.

India and its assertions .

Gaza and Iranian empathy

The bomb.

Israel and the hair trigger finger on the button.

American congress.

Radicalisation of Islam globally.

Terror attacks that might trigger an escalator of events .

Global decimation of crops by nature.

Viruses unleashed.

Chemical warfare.

Yep, this guy might have nailed the truth in his throw away line.

But whether the party is in Thailand now remains to be seen.

The coast of Vietnam looks decidedly cleaner and more peaceful

[wooloomooloo]

Cheer up, Plutojames. Geez.

[Cake Monster]

One of the main, ( if not the main ) seasons for incurring debt is just about to start in Thailand.

The season that I refer too, is the start of the new School Year term.

People have to pay for the books, uniforms, shoes, meals , Scout trips, day trip to museum Etc, along with all the actual term payments.

Already in Patts, I sense the whole engine of commerce slowing, as a trip into town to Big C, Klang, today showed me.

[trogers]

And newly built condos up for sale from 6-12 million baht in bangkok. Who has the money to buy?

Those into drugs, gambling and prostitution?

[Srikcir]

The ARMY needs a lot of budget. ......

Amazing post from a newbie ??? Target the army---I wonder why ?? another one joins the bashers.

Of course it is the army that created this mess---ha ha ha-----go and have a strong coffee.

The Thai military budget has never suffered from a poor economy.

And it was the combination of the 1-2 years of PRCD/Democrat anti-government protests and the military coup that adversely affected the Thai economy beginning in mid-2013 to now. Compare the military budget to Thailand's Annual GDP rate. Where do you see the military taking cuts in its budget?

Edited April 1, 2015 by Srikcir

[soalbundy]

I wonder if the official household debt figures include loans received from loan sharks or family members. Might be worse than we think. There should be a personal finance course in the last year of high school but I wonder who could teach this.

One member said it might help if farmers were paid for 2013 rice. This was done long ago as it was one of the first priorities of the Prayut government.

Nobody in my village has received one Baht although we did get two dead lines which have come and gone but the government bank was nice enough to offer us our own money at 7% interest and that is not just my village, i spoke to the manager of the government bank who has lost face announcing the two dead lines and he no longer answers the phone, there are hundreds of thousands who haven't yet been paid and who have had to take on extra debt to plant this year because of the missing money, we plant nothing now.

[trogers]

The ARMY needs a lot of budget. ......

Amazing post from a newbie ??? Target the army---I wonder why ?? another one joins the bashers.

Of course it is the army that created this mess---ha ha ha-----go and have a strong coffee.

The Thai military budget has never suffered from a poor economy.

And it was the combination of the 1-2 years of PRCD/Democrat anti-government protests and the military coup that adversely affected the Thai economy beginning in mid-2013 to now. Compare the military budget to Thailand's Annual GDP rate. Where do you see the military taking cuts in its budget?

Thai Military Spending.jpg

GDPAnnualGrowthRate.jpg

That's for National Security. Now show us the annual budget figures for education and health.

[ramrod711]

"The finance minister has conceded that Thai economy is in trouble..."

Well at least he got one thing right.

What he should have done; Tell a "white lie" about the health of the economy, introduce a first car scheme so that people are encouraged to overspend and a rice scheme that would bankrupt the country. How do I know that you ask, because that will make you popular and you will get re-elected until Thai people realize they were duped into poverty.