British tourist kills police in crash

[Sviss Geez]

The article states the air bags deployed,,, with modern cars, (esp a MB I'd guess),,,, it's as simple as plugging it into a dealers service computer, and the CAR'S computer, will tell you exactly the speed at impact, the angle of the impact,, were the brakes being applied, how strongly, etc, etc,,, BUT,,, will anyone investigating this bother to see that through?...

Adeeos has made the most intelligent post here yet as it relates to facts and blame.

No he hasn't, all he has done is show how little he knows about cars' operating systems.

[piercingpusher]

The article states the air bags deployed,,, with modern cars, (esp a MB I'd guess),,,, it's as simple as plugging it into a dealers service computer, and the CAR'S computer, will tell you exactly the speed at impact, the angle of the impact,, were the brakes being applied, how strongly, etc, etc,,, BUT,,, will anyone investigating this bother to see that through?...

Nonsense, car's computers are not "black boxes", their purpose is to control the operation of the vehicle not provide accident related information.

Another ignorant.. Yes they are like black boxes - Especially in the new Mercedes.

[richard_smith237]

This will be interesting to follow... The type of car the Brit was driving is irrelevant - the result would have been the same in a Toyota or Honda.

02:40am - Was there any trace of alcohol on the driver ? On the deceased Policeman ? - this would be key to determining a deadly mistake or manslaughter.

Was the driver within the speed limit ? the Opening Post notes that he was 'speeding his car' did the driver (Benjamin) admit to this or is this a poorly written article ?

Already some members are throwing emotion around without enough fact from which to base their conclusions...

Of course, we can all garner our opinions and assumptions... i.e. mine would be that at that time, both parties have had a few drinks, both are illegally on the road, the Bike pulled out infront of the Car to make a U-Turn without looking. The Car couldn't avoid the bike... BUT... thats just an assumption...

Key facts need to be established - Drinking ? (both Rider and Driver); Speeding ? (Driver); Pulled out without looking (Rider).

I have a question; what exactly is "speeding the car" in Thailand. There are virtually no speed limit signs. Yes it was 2:30 AM, the road was probably mostly empty and he was probably going fast. It is tragic when anyone gets killed, but the Brit had the right of way under Thai law; It was the responsibility of the motorcycle rider to wait, period and not pull out in front of the car. But we all know that not waiting at U-Turns is the rule here, not the exception.

Roads have speed limits, a lack of signage doesn't change this... IF the Mercedes was travelling in excess of the speed limit, the driver was breaking the law.

In your case, if I drive down Sukhumvit road in Bkk at 90 kmh and a bike pulls out in front of my car I still have right of way... You would be correct, but the fact that I am breaking the speed limit supersedes right of way when proportioning blame.

I'm not suggesting this is the case here - I'm simply addressing your 'right of way' and 'lack of signage' points.

[Sviss Geez]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I hope tha they lock this guy up and just throw the keys away.

I love listening to you, saint and super driver, that never disobey the rules in Thailand.

Try to read the article properly, the guy was cut off by the motorbike when the policeman made a u-turn at the spot suddenly, cutting into his way and making it impossible for him to stop his car in time.

Ask yourself, what would you have done in a situation like this?

So stop, trying to be clever and think before you post nonsense.

Did you read the article? The bike ended up 200meters away......I doubt a bike could be thrown that far if he was going less than 70-80kmph , not to mention the front of the Merc has all but disintegrated. IF the Merc was speeding then you cannot really say the cop cut him off as he may have had enough time to u turn if the Merc was traveling at the correct speed.

If you look at the car properly you will see that the front has not disintegrated. The bonnet has crumpled as it is designed to do, the front plastic bumper has broken and dislodged as it is designed to do and the windscreen has been damaged where the bike/rider has hit it as usually happens in this kind of accident.

The bike has a considerable mass and if launched into the air in a collision of this type it will continue to slide along the road until it loses all it's inertia. It does not hit the road and stop dead.

[Lee4Life]

I don't know if it's the same person, but 2 weeks ago, there was a white guy hauling ass in his benz convertible coming into Hua Hin. Looks like the same car. I'm no saint when I drive either though so it's hard to judge.

In my past life I was a Tow Truck operator and saw more accident scenes than I could ever remember, that Benz has an awful lot of damage for a car-motorbike accident, especially the types of bikes that are normally ridden here, and the bike was thrown quite a distance. It could very well be that the bike pulled in front of the Benz, but it could also be that the rider of the bike grossly misjudged the speed the Benz was traveling at.

[slipperylobster]

As someone pointed out...inertia and mass. There are simple formulas to figure out the speed the driver of the car was going. We have the weight of both vehicles, and the distance traveled (200 meters). Anyone want to try?

Level ...pavement/tar .....not wet.

Edited April 16, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Sviss Geez]

The article states the air bags deployed,,, with modern cars, (esp a MB I'd guess),,,, it's as simple as plugging it into a dealers service computer, and the CAR'S computer, will tell you exactly the speed at impact, the angle of the impact,, were the brakes being applied, how strongly, etc, etc,,, BUT,,, will anyone investigating this bother to see that through?...

Nonsense, car's computers are not "black boxes", their purpose is to control the operation of the vehicle not provide accident related information.

Another ignorant.. Yes they are like black boxes - Especially in the new Mercedes.

No they are not. If they were able to provide that kind of information there would never be any doubt about the circumstances of any accident and that isn't the case.

[Chazchallenger]

Interesting to see the outcome of this. I remember the similar accident, a couple of years ago when the grandson of the Red Bull company killed a cop in the same way. Mind you he was full of booze and cocaine at the time. Dont think it ever went to trail.

[angiolo]

Thais on bikes do not look to see if it is safe to continue. My guess is that the cop pulled out in front of a speeding car and not aware of it.Normal every day way of crossing a traffic lane. Scares me daily on my bike . Guess the ferrang will get the blame,unlucky fellow

[JohnnyHK]

This is an old article but I would think the MB has a recorder if GM has it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/04/19/hate-to-break-it-to-you-but-your-car-likely-has-a-black-box-spying-on-you-already/

[Tchooptip]

Crazy Brit. You don't visit a foreign country, rent a car, and drive with reckless abandon. You don't know the roads and you are a guest.

I hope they lock up Mr. Benjamin in a Thai prison cell for a few years and not just let him go back to the island after paying off the officer's family.

My condolences to Police Lance Corporal Wiroon's family and friends. Terrible that this happens at the end of the Songkran holiday.

Who said the car was rented?

What makes him a tourist? Maybe just his visa?

The police officer's motorbike had no license plate at all

Yet, you condemn the guy to a prison sentence. What if it's found out that the car driver had not a trace of alcohol or other substance and that it was an accident at 2:40am.

Then again, i'm sure you'll find some other answers.

Then again, i'm sure you'll find some other answers.

Looking at the pitiful state of the car after colliding with a motorbike, not another car, yes Sir, I have an answer about the speed of this vehicle

[Sakeopete]

Lock him up and throw away the key is a bit harsh don't you think? How many of us can say we have never exceeded the speed limit here or in our countries of origin. Lets face it many farang lose their repect for road rules after years in a country where the natives don't follow the rules.

[richard_smith237]

This is an old article but I would think the MB has a recorder if GM has it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/04/19/hate-to-break-it-to-you-but-your-car-likely-has-a-black-box-spying-on-you-already/

You may be incorrect...

Quote from the Forbes Article linked above:

For one, it will make the recorders mandatory in all vehicles starting in 2015, meaning that manufacturers who have not been including them (such as Mercedes-Benz and Audi) will have to start. And as IEEE reports, recent rules from the NHTSA have standardized what those event recorders capture: “a car’s speed, how far the accelerator was pressed, the engine revolutions per minute, whether the driver hit the brakes, whether the driver was wearing a safety belt, and how long it took for the airbags to deploy.” So moving forward, these event recorders will be creating far more comprehensive recordings.

[Jimbo1964]

I hate those U turns so much. Who in their right mind puts a U turn in the fast lane, its just asking for trouble. Then more often than not, it gives the person making a U Turn a very short lane to merge into the other sides fast lane, so they cannot gain enough speed to merge smoothly, therefore both fast lanes are adversely effected.

[dunque]

Crazy Brit. You don't visit a foreign country, rent a car, and drive with reckless abandon. You don't know the roads and you are a guest.

I hope they lock up Mr. Benjamin in a Thai prison cell for a few years and not just let him go back to the island after paying off the officer's family.

My condolences to Police Lance Corporal Wiroon's family and friends. Terrible that this happens at the end of the Songkran holiday.

Who said the car was rented?

What makes him a tourist? Maybe just his visa?

The police officer's motorbike had no license plate at all

Yet, you condemn the guy to a prison sentence. What if it's found out that the car driver had not a trace of alcohol or other substance and that it was an accident at 2:40am.

Then again, i'm sure you'll find some other answers.

I am not sure that a absent license plate grant a cloak of invisibility.

U-turn gaps are well marked and I believe there will have been 2 lanes available so excessive speed seems a viable supposition.

[HerbalEd]

You guys are amazing. You have no way of knowing if the Brit was drunk, or speeding and yet you automatically assume he was and are now screaming for his head. Maybe he was guilty of drunk driving and speeding .... maybe he was not. I don't know nor do you.

What I do know is that way too many times I've had some idiot Thai on a motorbike quickly cut in front of me with no warning and either I or my wife have had to slam on the brakes to avoid a crash.

Edited April 16, 2015 by HerbalEd

[Si Thea01]

just hit a dog with your cat at 90 km/h , and you ll see the face of car . you speak about something that you don't know . it's crazy .... are you all experts of what ??? and even if he was driving to quick , is that a reason to be guilty of murder ? the title say : - a brit killed a motorbike policeman driver .... KILLED ???? beter say : a motorbike policeman driver die after accident with a car . a why say that the driver is brit ??? how many expats or tourist die after accident with thai-drivers ( drunked , who takes jaba , who fall asleep , who drive crazy ) ? anyway , the brit will be guilty just cause he's farang so everybody will be happy , even you the expats . you disgusting me .

I see that you are disappointed with many of the comments made on here, so I should tell you firstly, that I've had 30 years service in law enforcement, with the last 20 as a Crash Investigator. I hope that's sufficient for me to comment on a few aspects that you have brought up? During this time I completed numerous courses required to become a certified Crash Investigator and have investigated numerous fatal motor vehicle crashes, staged accidents and serious (catastrophic) incidents.

Firstly, there are so many factors involved in investigating such matters, that I would be here all day typing. So I'll try to keep it short. One aspect that I agree with you on and conclude from the posts that many are relying on newspaper articles as a source for their comments and subsequent conclusions. Not a very wise thing to do.

You then mention speed and murder, all in the one sentence. Of course this does not relate to murder; murder in an intentional act of killing a person and although he may have been speeding, it would be most unlikely that this was his intention. There is however, a charge of manslaughter, which, once all the facts are known, could well be brought against the driver of the car. Whatever the outcome, I certainly would not like to be in his shoes.

When viewing the damage, as depicted by the photograph, one can safely say the car was being driven at a high speed, (unknown) and that impact occurred, initially on the left (nearside) of the vehicle and then worsens as it progresses backwards and rises upward toward the offside of the car. This is a good indication that impact occurred at speed, (unknown) when the cyclist was at an angle to the vehicle.

This could cause the front of the cycle to be propelled away whilst the rest of the bike continued backwards and upwards into the vehicle, with the body possibly impacting and shattering the windscreen. It also gives the impression that there was little, if any, braking at the time of initial impact. However, if there were there skid marks, then these, when combined with a number of other factors, would provide evidence as to the vehicle's speed at the time of impact.

The press release contains a version provided by the driver of the car, however, this can be neither accepted or rejected until all the evidence has been gathered which would then allow investigators to reach a conclusion, one way or another. At this time it sure beats me how anyone can conclude who is at fault or what their fate should be. Not only does it appear many are super sleuths but also want to be the judge, jury and executioner

Let's not forget the need for medicals, scene investigation, witnesses, reconstruction if needed and the numerous other factors that need to be carried out before any finding can be reached. In so far as your not liking the use of the word "Killed", nothing wrong with that as it relates to the death of a person, animal or other living thing. As for the rest, have no idea what you're on about so I'll leave it it at that.

[Pigdog474]

As far as I can see from the report the British driver was not at fault.

No evidence he was speeding or drunk.

Thai making a u-turn on an unregistered, uninsured, untaxed m/c.

Thai happens to be an off duty policeman ...... so what.

Was the Thai drunk? No evidence presented, but he was breaking the law.

Unregistered un taxed uninsured.........all sadly irrelevant here, wonder if he had a helmet on too?

All may be irrelevant here but if you've driven on the roads at night in Thailand, one must ask "did the motorcycle it have tail lights? A large percentage of my close encounters out on HWY 4 at night are with motorcycles/scooters without rear lights.

[The Deerhunter]

Hurled the bike 200 meters?????????? Does the Journo even know what 200 meters looks like? 20 meters I nearly believe but dragged or pushed might be more accurate. Quality Tourist, Quality car. Quality journalism! (or quality translation, perhaps.) At that hour of the morning, alcohol is a likely factor & for that damage he must have been really speeding. The bike had no numberplate. I wonder about lights. Perhaps he didn't see it. But at that speed he probably couldn't react with or without alcohol. Poor young copper. RIP. No mention if he left wife or kids.

[Pigdog474]

The article states the air bags deployed,,, with modern cars, (esp a MB I'd guess),,,, it's as simple as plugging it into a dealers service computer, and the CAR'S computer, will tell you exactly the speed at impact, the angle of the impact,, were the brakes being applied, how strongly, etc, etc,,, BUT,,, will anyone investigating this bother to see that through?...

Nonsense, car's computers are not "black boxes", their purpose is to control the operation of the vehicle not provide accident related information.

Another ignorant.. Yes they are like black boxes - Especially in the new Mercedes.

No they are not. If they were able to provide that kind of information there would never be any doubt about the circumstances of any accident and that isn't the case.

.

Maybe you should read up on new cars. In my owners manual it says all this information is available and can be released to the police if a court order is issued. Maybe not in your country or here in Thailand but most car manufacturing are using this Technology. We've been using this technology on trains for over the past 20 years so its nothing new

[Jumper]

This is an old article but I would think the MB has a recorder if GM has it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/04/19/hate-to-break-it-to-you-but-your-car-likely-has-a-black-box-spying-on-you-already/

You may be incorrect...

Quote from the Forbes Article linked above:

For one, it will make the recorders mandatory in all vehicles starting in 2015, meaning that manufacturers who have not been including them (such as Mercedes-Benz and Audi) will have to start. And as IEEE reports, recent rules from the NHTSA have standardized what those event recorders capture: “a car’s speed, how far the accelerator was pressed, the engine revolutions per minute, whether the driver hit the brakes, whether the driver was wearing a safety belt, and how long it took for the airbags to deploy.” So moving forward, these event recorders will be creating far more comprehensive recordings.

I think the article quoted is from 2012. I also see in a list of car models that support Event Data Recorders published in March of 2015 that it looks like Mercedes has been supporting this technology since 2014 models.

www.rimkus.com/uploads/pdfs/Event_Data_Recorder.pdf

I have one in my Volvo S60 for sure. They've been supporting the technology since 2011.

In response to why this information is not used more often: privacy issues. I own the data in my car.

[kkup]

"Let's not forget the need for medicals, scene investigation, witnesses, reconstruction if needed and the numerous other factors that need to be carried out before any finding can be reached"

Whenever a foreigner is involved in an accident he is at fault. No investigations / reconstructions required. Welcome to Thailand.

[Stray]

just hit a dog with your cat at 90 km/h , and you ll see the face of car . you speak about something that you don't know . it's crazy .... are you all experts of what ??? and even if he was driving to quick , is that a reason to be guilty of murder ? the title say : - a brit killed a motorbike policeman driver .... KILLED ???? beter say : a motorbike policeman driver die after accident with a car . a why say that the driver is brit ??? how many expats or tourist die after accident with thai-drivers ( drunked , who takes jaba , who fall asleep , who drive crazy ) ? anyway , the brit will be guilty just cause he's farang so everybody will be happy , even you the expats . you disgusting me .

I see that you are disappointed with many of the comments made on here, so I should tell you firstly, that I've had 30 years service in law enforcement, with the last 20 as a Crash Investigator. I hope that's sufficient for me to comment on a few aspects that you have brought up? During this time I completed numerous courses required to become a certified Crash Investigator and have investigated numerous fatal motor vehicle crashes, staged accidents and serious (catastrophic) incidents.

Firstly, there are so many factors involved in investigating such matters, that I would be here all day typing. So I'll try to keep it short. One aspect that I agree with you on and conclude from the posts that many are relying on newspaper articles as a source for their comments and subsequent conclusions. Not a very wise thing to do.

You then mention speed and murder, all in the one sentence. Of course this does not relate to murder; murder in an intentional act of killing a person and although he may have been speeding, it would be most unlikely that this was his intention. There is however, a charge of manslaughter, which, once all the facts are known, could well be brought against the driver of the car. Whatever the outcome, I certainly would not like to be in his shoes.

When viewing the damage, as depicted by the photograph, one can safely say the car was being driven at a high speed, (unknown) and that impact occurred, initially on the left (nearside) of the vehicle and then worsens as it progresses backwards and rises upward toward the offside of the car. This is a good indication that impact occurred at speed, (unknown) when the cyclist was at an angle to the vehicle.

This could cause the front of the cycle to be propelled away whilst the rest of the bike continued backwards and upwards into the vehicle, with the body possibly impacting and shattering the windscreen. It also gives the impression that there was little, if any, braking at the time of initial impact. However, if there were there skid marks, then these, when combined with a number of other factors, would provide evidence as to the vehicle's speed at the time of impact.

The press release contains a version provided by the driver of the car, however, this can be neither accepted or rejected until all the evidence has been gathered which would then allow investigators to reach a conclusion, one way or another. At this time it sure beats me how anyone can conclude who is at fault or what their fate should be. Not only does it appear many are super sleuths but also want to be the judge, jury and executioner

Let's not forget the need for medicals, scene investigation, witnesses, reconstruction if needed and the numerous other factors that need to be carried out before any finding can be reached. In so far as your not liking the use of the word "Killed", nothing wrong with that as it relates to the death of a person, animal or other living thing. As for the rest, have no idea what you're on about so I'll leave it it at that.

I find your mix of experience and knowledge particularly disturbing, on this forum, and will request that you are permanently banned from posting on topics that you have expertise in.

All forum members are politely requested to disregard anything that Si Thea01 has to say here and are to continue posting in the usual fashion.

[Broeno]

Thaivisa judges also work with sonkran.

[dirtycash]

cop was probably also wrong ( thai drivers and all that ) he made a quick u turn probably without checking his mirrors.

[balo]

This accident happened at night 2.40 am. I never drive a car at that time and if I do I make sure to drive very slowly and look out for bikes without lights and people walking in the dark. This driver was speeding at night, no excuses he should have known better.

[minikev]

...here we go with the 'foreigner kills' headline......

...cut the cr*p.....

...it was an accident....and not sure where to lay the blame...

...but after a decade plus of road carnage.....this is the first time I see blame laid in the headline..

...and murder at that.....but for foreigners only......

.....'tourist kills'.......'foreigner kills'.........???

....unacceptable....I hope that someone else speaks up as well.....

I agree. The driver of this car may have been guilty of speeding. He certainly didn't intend to plough his car into a motorcyclist policeman. A very large percentage of people reading and commenting on this thread will have driven a car faster than the law permits. Up till now thats all we know he did wrong as he admitted it. Maybe there is more to the story IE alchohol etc. Will they check for that on the policeman?

I feel for all parties. The driver will be full of remorse and fear of what will happen to him and the family of a young man will be mourning him much too early.

For those that are talking about the amount of damage to the car suggesting it is too much for a car/motorbike collision. You shouldn't comment about things you are not qualified to do. Mercedes Benz build a very good car it like all modern cars has crumple zones. These as someone else said earlier take the impact and fold reducing the force of impact for the people in the car. The engine mounts are designed to break so the engine falls rather than gets pushed through the bulkhead. The collision damage does indeed look heavy but as we wern't there we don't know if the car continued forward into a crash barrier either. ETC ETC

[lavender19]

Crazy Brit. You don't visit a foreign country, rent a car, and drive with reckless abandon. You don't know the roads and you are a guest.

I hope they lock up Mr. Benjamin in a Thai prison cell for a few years and not just let him go back to the island after paying off the officer's family.

My condolences to Police Lance Corporal Wiroon's family and friends. Terrible that this happens at the end of the Songkran holiday.

Who said the car was rented?

What makes him a tourist? Maybe just his visa?

The police officer's motorbike had no license plate at all

Yet, you condemn the guy to a prison sentence. What if it's found out that the car driver had not a trace of alcohol or other substance and that it was an accident at 2:40am.

Then again, i'm sure you'll find some other answers.

Totally agree.

So far he has been accused of being drunk and many other things.

I'm sure half the idiots who post on here have never driven on Thai roads or even live here.

Those U-Turns on major highways are just a recipe for accidents to happen

[lvr181]

I think it is silly to assign blame at this time in the proceedings. We have no idea who's at fault and it could be that they were both in the wrong. The Brit for speeding and the Thai officer for making an ill-advised U-turn in front of an on coming car.

I agree entirely. Try always to drive defensively and "speeding" is not defensive driving. How would I "guess" that the car driver was speeding? By the amount of damage to the car.

But I do wonder why the motorbike had no licence plate? Is it legal for Police to ride bikes like that? Maybe we will never know (or be told)

Regardless of blame, it is a road fatality nevertheless and my condolences to the Policeman's family and friends.

[Stray]

I think it is silly to assign blame at this time in the proceedings. We have no idea who's at fault and it could be that they were both in the wrong. The Brit for speeding and the Thai officer for making an ill-advised U-turn in front of an on coming car.

I agree entirely. Try always to drive defensively and "speeding" is not defensive driving. How would I "guess" that the car driver was speeding? By the amount of damage to the car.

But I do wonder why the motorbike had no licence plate? Is it legal for Police to ride bikes like that? Maybe we will never know (or be told)

Regardless of blame, it is a road fatality nevertheless and my condolences to the Policeman's family and friends.

It has already been posted several times on this thread; new vehicles are not sold with a registration plate.