Parks chief asks Kanchanaburi temple to allow transfer of tigers

[webfact]

Parks chief asks temple to allow transfer of tigers
The Nation

146 bIg cats due to be handed over to state centres on Friday

BANGKOK: -- DEPARTMENT of National Parks Wildlife and Plant Concervation has asked Wat Pa Luang Ta Bua Foundation - the body overseeing the "Tiger Temple" in Kanchanaburi - to hand over 146 tigers to authorities this coming Friday.

A special working group has been set up by the department to deal with the transfer of the tigers.

Department director general Nipon Chotibal said parks officials had sent a request to the foundation to seek cooperation in transferring the tigers so they can be nurtured in proper facilities. All of the 146 tigers are due to be relocated on April 24.

Nipon said the tigers would be checked with the DNP database, their health checked and then moved to Khao Son and Khao Pratabchang wildlife breeding centres in Ratchaburi.

"There will be an inspection of microchips - [information from] which the temple's veterinarian handed to the department - to check whether three tigers are missing [as reported recently]. If the three tigers are really missing, someone will be punished, as the department has already informed the police," he revealed.

Nipon admitted he was concerned about the tiger transfer this Friday - after a protest by monks and volunteers at the temple two weeks ago when bears were found and removed by officials. A special working group, consisting of local administration authorities, soldiers, police, veterinarians and officers from the National Office of Buddhism, has been set up to counter any incorrect accusations being made against the department, or any misunderstanding about the six bears that were relocated to government facilities on April 3.

The department's deputy director general Adisorn Noochdamrong was appointed head of the working group.

The Wildlife Conservation Office has said Wat Pa Luang Ta Bua does not have a proper licence to care for wild animals, as the temple is not a public zoo.

"As Wat Pa Luang Ta Bua does not have proper cages and clear animal nurturing facilities, we can see that the temple has no intention to open as a public zoo. Therefore, they did not receive a reply when they sought a licence extension from the department and their [former] licence is no longer valid," Wildlife Conservation Office director Tuanjai Nujdamrong said.

Tuanjai suggested that the temple had no right to raise bears, which it claimed were given to them. He said they had to inform the department and sign an agreement if they wanted to do that.

The six bears seized from the temple are now at Bang Lamung breeding centre in Chon Buri province.

Meanwhile, representatives of Wat Pa Luang Ta Bua have asked the authorities to return all seized animals - the bears and hornbills found there (and removed because they were unregistered).

They said the animals had belonged to the temple zoo since its opening in 2008 and that they had been granted a licence extension in 2013. The temple also claimed that according to Wild Animal Preservation and Protection Act if there is no reply to its request to extend its licence within 60 days, it could regard that as "acceptance".

Yesterday 30 people from Wat Pa Luang Ta Bua protested in front of the wildlife breeding facility in Ban Lamung in Chon Buri and called for the six bears to be returned to the border temple.

Director of the second conservation area administrative office (Sri Racha), Yu Senatham, and Bang Lamung breeding centre head Photsawat Chotwatpongchai and local officials explained to the protesters that they could not return the bears because the temple does not have a licence to keep them, and the case is not over.

Suphitphong Pakjarung, vice president of Wat Pa Luang Ta Bua Foundation, said he did not know temple followers protested at Bang Lamung breeding centre. He said the temple had many followers.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Parks-chief-asks-temple-to-allow-transfer-of-tiger-30258295.html


-- The Nation 2015-04-20

[thesetat2013]

This is going to be a huge drama on Friday when the police and army try to take that areas only source of tourist income. I am certain they don't care if they have no licenses and improper cages. And certainly they don't care that they abuse these animals with narcotics so they can be docile when a tourist pays them extra to hold and touch those tigers. What a shame this place is under the control of Buddhism religion and done in a temple. Abuse of their status also seems not to be important to them as well

[Somtamnication]

Who cares about these people? These tigers deserve a better life, and not drugged all day for idiotic farangs to touch.

And while they are at it, drop off Bhudda's comments on how to treat animals.

[tilaceer]

" they abuse these animals with narcotics"

"and not drugged all day "

Does anyone have absolute proof of this, or is it just hearsay and conjecture ?

I have always taken an interest in this temple, and used to visit it frequently in the older days before it became much more commercialised. During those visits, I never felt the animals were drugged but possibly lethargic due to just being fed and the heat. On some occasions, due to extreme heat, many of the older tigers were not taken to the quarry, but remained in their enclosures, and we had access to the younger cats under the trees. These cats were extremely active, and did not appear to be under the influence of narcotics.

I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, but I would appreciate if anyone knows if these cats have ever been tested by an independent reliable source, (yes I know I am opening myself up to claims of corruption, this is Thailand, money talks..etc). But, at some point I would have thought these animals would have needed veterinary care, and whether it be hair, feces or urine, would have thought testing relatively easy.

On various forums over the years, I have seen similar accusations, yet despite being asked for proof, nothing has been forthcoming.

Please understand, I am not disputing what you claim, I am only interested in where you got this information or, if anyone else can please point me to a reliable source confirming this. Should this prove to be the case, then obviously these cats need to be removed, (as is happening and tests could now be run), and treated with the humanity and respect they deserve.

Thanks

[wirat69]

Guess there will be a show down with the Big Cats... of the 2 legged variety at least!!!

[snowpea83]

" they abuse these animals with narcotics"

"and not drugged all day "

Does anyone have absolute proof of this, or is it just hearsay and conjecture ?

I have always taken an interest in this temple, and used to visit it frequently in the older days before it became much more commercialised. During those visits, I never felt the animals were drugged but possibly lethargic due to just being fed and the heat. On some occasions, due to extreme heat, many of the older tigers were not taken to the quarry, but remained in their enclosures, and we had access to the younger cats under the trees. These cats were extremely active, and did not appear to be under the influence of narcotics.

I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, but I would appreciate if anyone knows if these cats have ever been tested by an independent reliable source, (yes I know I am opening myself up to claims of corruption, this is Thailand, money talks..etc). But, at some point I would have thought these animals would have needed veterinary care, and whether it be hair, feces or urine, would have thought testing relatively easy.

On various forums over the years, I have seen similar accusations, yet despite being asked for proof, nothing has been forthcoming.

Please understand, I am not disputing what you claim, I am only interested in where you got this information or, if anyone else can please point me to a reliable source confirming this. Should this prove to be the case, then obviously these cats need to be removed, (as is happening and tests could now be run), and treated with the humanity and respect they deserve.

Thanks

I've worked in captive animals for a long time now.. not Tigers, but you get to know people who know people. I have also always been interested in this as well.

From what I have been told (and you are correct, no testing has ever taken place that I know of) the tigers do not seem to be drugged. They are over fed so they are docile and sleepy, they are displayed during certain hours of the day (remember that a cat actually sleeps a lot, so if you catch them at these times, they will naturally be sleepy) and they use only certain ages of animals. I believe they only use animals up to a certain age, ie: not after full sexual maturity. All these factors help to keep them under control.

Most of these tigers are born in captivity (probably only the very original ones were not), I know they bottle feed the cubs from an early age so they imprint on humans not other tigers and are obviously extensively handled from a very young age.

If you manage a large cat in this way, you will have a 'tame' and manageable animal for a good few years or until they reach full maturity.

So, in short, I don't believe they are drugging them.

In saying this though, I don't want to say I agree with what they are doing at all. But this is what I think is going on from everyone that I have been able to talk too.

[seajae]

" they abuse these animals with narcotics"

"and not drugged all day "

Does anyone have absolute proof of this, or is it just hearsay and conjecture ?

I have always taken an interest in this temple, and used to visit it frequently in the older days before it became much more commercialised. During those visits, I never felt the animals were drugged but possibly lethargic due to just being fed and the heat. On some occasions, due to extreme heat, many of the older tigers were not taken to the quarry, but remained in their enclosures, and we had access to the younger cats under the trees. These cats were extremely active, and did not appear to be under the influence of narcotics.

I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, but I would appreciate if anyone knows if these cats have ever been tested by an independent reliable source, (yes I know I am opening myself up to claims of corruption, this is Thailand, money talks..etc). But, at some point I would have thought these animals would have needed veterinary care, and whether it be hair, feces or urine, would have thought testing relatively easy.

On various forums over the years, I have seen similar accusations, yet despite being asked for proof, nothing has been forthcoming.

Please understand, I am not disputing what you claim, I am only interested in where you got this information or, if anyone else can please point me to a reliable source confirming this. Should this prove to be the case, then obviously these cats need to be removed, (as is happening and tests could now be run), and treated with the humanity and respect they deserve.

Thanks

I've worked in captive animals for a long time now.. not Tigers, but you get to know people who know people. I have also always been interested in this as well.

From what I have been told (and you are correct, no testing has ever taken place that I know of) the tigers do not seem to be drugged. They are over fed so they are docile and sleepy, they are displayed during certain hours of the day (remember that a cat actually sleeps a lot, so if you catch them at these times, they will naturally be sleepy) and they use only certain ages of animals. I believe they only use animals up to a certain age, ie: not after full sexual maturity. All these factors help to keep them under control.

Most of these tigers are born in captivity (probably only the very original ones were not), I know they bottle feed the cubs from an early age so they imprint on humans not other tigers and are obviously extensively handled from a very young age.

If you manage a large cat in this way, you will have a 'tame' and manageable animal for a good few years or until they reach full maturity.

So, in short, I don't believe they are drugging them.

In saying this though, I don't want to say I agree with what they are doing at all. But this is what I think is going on from everyone that I have been able to talk too.

get to know people who know people, well yes, that has to mean you know more than anyone else on this subject , really cant get over some of the bullsh*t that we see in here. Why is it that we see posters with no idea on the subjects trying to raise these simplistic answers to show their "knowledge" recently gained from reading a blog somewhere else.

It would appear these 2 are simply patting each other on the back if not actually the same person, there is no defence to what these so called monks are doing with the animals in question, for them it is simply a money making proposition, the animals are purely the means of doing it. Previous animal experience, does that mean you had a puppy or kitten at one stage, maybe lived on a farm with livestock, raised chickens etc but knowing people that know people really taught you a lot, maybe you could have read a book or two as well.......

Edited April 20, 2015 by seajae

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Yes, I know people that watch FOX not news. So I guess they know the truth about everything too?

These are predators, they are not docile creatures like you will find at a petting zoo. Get one of these beautiful animals off their meds for a day or too and then I will give you a month of my salary if you will go run a couple laps around one of the adults. If you are still alive after 30 mins in the cage with him I will gladly pay you.

It is more likely there won't be much left of you to burn.

Treating these animals like this is disgusting!!

[lemonjelly]

" they abuse these animals with narcotics"

"and not drugged all day "

Does anyone have absolute proof of this, or is it just hearsay and conjecture ?

I have always taken an interest in this temple, and used to visit it frequently in the older days before it became much more commercialised. During those visits, I never felt the animals were drugged but possibly lethargic due to just being fed and the heat. On some occasions, due to extreme heat, many of the older tigers were not taken to the quarry, but remained in their enclosures, and we had access to the younger cats under the trees. These cats were extremely active, and did not appear to be under the influence of narcotics.

I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, but I would appreciate if anyone knows if these cats have ever been tested by an independent reliable source, (yes I know I am opening myself up to claims of corruption, this is Thailand, money talks..etc). But, at some point I would have thought these animals would have needed veterinary care, and whether it be hair, feces or urine, would have thought testing relatively easy.

On various forums over the years, I have seen similar accusations, yet despite being asked for proof, nothing has been forthcoming.

Please understand, I am not disputing what you claim, I am only interested in where you got this information or, if anyone else can please point me to a reliable source confirming this. Should this prove to be the case, then obviously these cats need to be removed, (as is happening and tests could now be run), and treated with the humanity and respect they deserve.

Thanks

I've worked in captive animals for a long time now.. not Tigers, but you get to know people who know people. I have also always been interested in this as well.

From what I have been told (and you are correct, no testing has ever taken place that I know of) the tigers do not seem to be drugged. They are over fed so they are docile and sleepy, they are displayed during certain hours of the day (remember that a cat actually sleeps a lot, so if you catch them at these times, they will naturally be sleepy) and they use only certain ages of animals. I believe they only use animals up to a certain age, ie: not after full sexual maturity. All these factors help to keep them under control.

Most of these tigers are born in captivity (probably only the very original ones were not), I know they bottle feed the cubs from an early age so they imprint on humans not other tigers and are obviously extensively handled from a very young age.

If you manage a large cat in this way, you will have a 'tame' and manageable animal for a good few years or until they reach full maturity.

So, in short, I don't believe they are drugging them.

In saying this though, I don't want to say I agree with what they are doing at all. But this is what I think is going on from everyone that I have been able to talk too.

get to know people who know people, well yes, that has to mean you know more than anyone else on this subject , really cant get over some of the bullsh*t that we see in here. Why is it that we see posters with no idea on the subjects trying to raise these simplistic answers to show their "knowledge" recently gained from reading a blog somewhere else.

It would appear these 2 are simply patting each other on the back if not actually the same person, there is no defence to what these so called monks are doing with the animals in question, for them it is simply a money making proposition, the animals are purely the means of doing it. Previous animal experience, does that mean you had a puppy or kitten at one stage, maybe lived on a farm with livestock, raised chickens etc but knowing people that know people really taught you a lot, maybe you could have read a book or two as well.......

it was 2 posters giving their opinions without feeling the need to insult/flame others.... And the in true TVF style, you came along f###tard.

[EyesWideOpen]

Given the battle the monks put up over losing a few bears, will be fun to

see what they do when their bread and butter tigers are being packed

up and shipped away. Prayut had better send in a few troops to help the

local guys.....

[circusman]

" they abuse these animals with narcotics"

"and not drugged all day "

Does anyone have absolute proof of this, or is it just hearsay and conjecture ?

I have always taken an interest in this temple, and used to visit it frequently in the older days before it became much more commercialised. During those visits, I never felt the animals were drugged but possibly lethargic due to just being fed and the heat. On some occasions, due to extreme heat, many of the older tigers were not taken to the quarry, but remained in their enclosures, and we had access to the younger cats under the trees. These cats were extremely active, and did not appear to be under the influence of narcotics.

I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, but I would appreciate if anyone knows if these cats have ever been tested by an independent reliable source, (yes I know I am opening myself up to claims of corruption, this is Thailand, money talks..etc). But, at some point I would have thought these animals would have needed veterinary care, and whether it be hair, feces or urine, would have thought testing relatively easy.

On various forums over the years, I have seen similar accusations, yet despite being asked for proof, nothing has been forthcoming.

Please understand, I am not disputing what you claim, I am only interested in where you got this information or, if anyone else can please point me to a reliable source confirming this. Should this prove to be the case, then obviously these cats need to be removed, (as is happening and tests could now be run), and treated with the humanity and respect they deserve.

Thanks

Sir, you may not be disputing what is constantly said about tigers and drugs but I am. A former owner of 7 tigers. In your post you say in so many words that you doubt the animals are druged but then say your not disputing. You can't have it two ways. By going to this place before, you were helping it survive financially so it could grow into this huge problem. You were not alone however.

[circusman]

Yes, I know people that watch FOX not news. So I guess they know the truth about everything too?

These are predators, they are not docile creatures like you will find at a petting zoo. Get one of these beautiful animals off their meds for a day or too and then I will give you a month of my salary if you will go run a couple laps around one of the adults. If you are still alive after 30 mins in the cage with him I will gladly pay you.

It is more likely there won't be much left of you to burn.

Treating these animals like this is disgusting!!

If you have not tested blood samples how are you able to say they are drugged ? Truth is, you can't.

[snowpea83]

" they abuse these animals with narcotics"

"and not drugged all day "

Does anyone have absolute proof of this, or is it just hearsay and conjecture ?

I have always taken an interest in this temple, and used to visit it frequently in the older days before it became much more commercialised. During those visits, I never felt the animals were drugged but possibly lethargic due to just being fed and the heat. On some occasions, due to extreme heat, many of the older tigers were not taken to the quarry, but remained in their enclosures, and we had access to the younger cats under the trees. These cats were extremely active, and did not appear to be under the influence of narcotics.

I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, but I would appreciate if anyone knows if these cats have ever been tested by an independent reliable source, (yes I know I am opening myself up to claims of corruption, this is Thailand, money talks..etc). But, at some point I would have thought these animals would have needed veterinary care, and whether it be hair, feces or urine, would have thought testing relatively easy.

On various forums over the years, I have seen similar accusations, yet despite being asked for proof, nothing has been forthcoming.

Please understand, I am not disputing what you claim, I am only interested in where you got this information or, if anyone else can please point me to a reliable source confirming this. Should this prove to be the case, then obviously these cats need to be removed, (as is happening and tests could now be run), and treated with the humanity and respect they deserve.

Thanks

I've worked in captive animals for a long time now.. not Tigers, but you get to know people who know people. I have also always been interested in this as well.

From what I have been told (and you are correct, no testing has ever taken place that I know of) the tigers do not seem to be drugged. They are over fed so they are docile and sleepy, they are displayed during certain hours of the day (remember that a cat actually sleeps a lot, so if you catch them at these times, they will naturally be sleepy) and they use only certain ages of animals. I believe they only use animals up to a certain age, ie: not after full sexual maturity. All these factors help to keep them under control.

Most of these tigers are born in captivity (probably only the very original ones were not), I know they bottle feed the cubs from an early age so they imprint on humans not other tigers and are obviously extensively handled from a very young age.

If you manage a large cat in this way, you will have a 'tame' and manageable animal for a good few years or until they reach full maturity.

So, in short, I don't believe they are drugging them.

In saying this though, I don't want to say I agree with what they are doing at all. But this is what I think is going on from everyone that I have been able to talk too.

get to know people who know people, well yes, that has to mean you know more than anyone else on this subject , really cant get over some of the bullsh*t that we see in here. Why is it that we see posters with no idea on the subjects trying to raise these simplistic answers to show their "knowledge" recently gained from reading a blog somewhere else.

It would appear these 2 are simply patting each other on the back if not actually the same person, there is no defence to what these so called monks are doing with the animals in question, for them it is simply a money making proposition, the animals are purely the means of doing it. Previous animal experience, does that mean you had a puppy or kitten at one stage, maybe lived on a farm with livestock, raised chickens etc but knowing people that know people really taught you a lot, maybe you could have read a book or two as well.......

it was 2 posters giving their opinions without feeling the need to insult/flame others.... And the in true TVF style, you came along f###tard.

WOW! Not that it's any of your business, but I actually manage an elephant sanctuary.. As I stated, not Tigers...and I'm not professing to 'know' anything.

I was only stating what I have managed to learn over the years speaking to people who have dealt with them, worked there, in the DNP etc. I absolutely disagree with them being in operation...having tigers...etc etc. I was only trying to state what I have heard in a diplomatic way...

P.S. I work my arse off everyday to improve the lives of captive elephants in Thailand, to rescue them, to work with mahouts to educate and change their methods of training and controlling the elephants, to improve the welfare and standards of living for all elephants in Thailand...What are you doing? other than getting on your high horse?

[Somtamnication]

Yes, I know people that watch FOX not news. So I guess they know the truth about everything too?

These are predators, they are not docile creatures like you will find at a petting zoo. Get one of these beautiful animals off their meds for a day or too and then I will give you a month of my salary if you will go run a couple laps around one of the adults. If you are still alive after 30 mins in the cage with him I will gladly pay you.

It is more likely there won't be much left of you to burn.

Treating these animals like this is disgusting!!

If you have not tested blood samples how are you able to say they are drugged ? Truth is, you can't.

Really. A brush between the palm of the hands while you are stroking them. You can test hairs, sir. Not just blood or saliva.

[webfact]

Tiger Temple faces confiscation of all its tigers this week



BANGKOK: -- The Department of National Park, Wildlife and Plant Conservation has issued a deadline for the Tiger Temple abbot to hand over all its 147 tigers to the department by Friday or else they will be confiscated.

The last ultimatum came as the abbot of the Tiger Temple or Wat Pa Luang Ta Maha Bua in Saiyok district of Kanchanaburi refused to cooperate with the park officials to hand over the beasts to the department for care.

Director-general of the department Mr Nipon Chotiban said the temple abbot has been notified to hand over the tigers, or risk having them seized.

He said the department has a legitimate right to bring back the tigers for care, not the temple.

Earlier last week his deputy Mr Adisorn Nuchdamrong had stated that he had planned to meet with the abbot of the Tiger Temple to discuss the removal of 147 tigers being looked after by monks at the temple to the Khao Prathap Chang Wildlife Breeding Centre in Chom Bung district and Khao Son Wildlife Breeding Centre in Suan Phung district in Ratchaburi province.

However the attempt was not possible when the temple abbot said he would be travelling to the US on Monday April 20 which will mean that the negotiations will have to be postponed.

The official stated however that if he did not receive the cooperation from the temple within 15 days then the department would have no choice but to seek court’s order for entry into the temple and confiscation of all 147 tigers from the temple.

He said further that all the necessary preparations such as transportation and animal pens have been completed and expects that all 147 tigers will require at least two weeks to be removed to new homes.

The department first announced the seizure of 10 tigers kept at the temple since 1999 because the temple had no permit to keep them.

However, officials then asked the temple to help take care of the animals instead of taking them back.

The number of tigers has since increased from 10 to 147, and the temple has no permits to keep them. The department now wants it to hand them over.

Park officials raided the temple in February due to complaints the temple was linked to wildlife trafficking and possible maltreatment of the animals.

But these allegations have never been clarified.

There had been desperate attempts in the past by several park chiefs to move the tigers to the wildlife breeding centre, but all failed due to strong protests by the temple, and local residents.

(Photo : Thai PBS File)

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/tiger-temple-faces-confiscation-of-all-its-tigers-this-week


-- Thai PBS 2015-04-20

[tilaceer]

" they abuse these animals with narcotics"

"and not drugged all day "

Does anyone have absolute proof of this, or is it just hearsay and conjecture ?

I have always taken an interest in this temple, and used to visit it frequently in the older days before it became much more commercialised. During those visits, I never felt the animals were drugged but possibly lethargic due to just being fed and the heat. On some occasions, due to extreme heat, many of the older tigers were not taken to the quarry, but remained in their enclosures, and we had access to the younger cats under the trees. These cats were extremely active, and did not appear to be under the influence of narcotics.

I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, but I would appreciate if anyone knows if these cats have ever been tested by an independent reliable source, (yes I know I am opening myself up to claims of corruption, this is Thailand, money talks..etc). But, at some point I would have thought these animals would have needed veterinary care, and whether it be hair, feces or urine, would have thought testing relatively easy.

On various forums over the years, I have seen similar accusations, yet despite being asked for proof, nothing has been forthcoming.

Please understand, I am not disputing what you claim, I am only interested in where you got this information or, if anyone else can please point me to a reliable source confirming this. Should this prove to be the case, then obviously these cats need to be removed, (as is happening and tests could now be run), and treated with the humanity and respect they deserve.

Thanks

I've worked in captive animals for a long time now.. not Tigers, but you get to know people who know people. I have also always been interested in this as well.

From what I have been told (and you are correct, no testing has ever taken place that I know of) the tigers do not seem to be drugged. They are over fed so they are docile and sleepy, they are displayed during certain hours of the day (remember that a cat actually sleeps a lot, so if you catch them at these times, they will naturally be sleepy) and they use only certain ages of animals. I believe they only use animals up to a certain age, ie: not after full sexual maturity. All these factors help to keep them under control.

Most of these tigers are born in captivity (probably only the very original ones were not), I know they bottle feed the cubs from an early age so they imprint on humans not other tigers and are obviously extensively handled from a very young age.

If you manage a large cat in this way, you will have a 'tame' and manageable animal for a good few years or until they reach full maturity.

So, in short, I don't believe they are drugging them.

In saying this though, I don't want to say I agree with what they are doing at all. But this is what I think is going on from everyone that I have been able to talk too.

get to know people who know people, well yes, that has to mean you know more than anyone else on this subject , really cant get over some of the bullsh*t that we see in here. Why is it that we see posters with no idea on the subjects trying to raise these simplistic answers to show their "knowledge" recently gained from reading a blog somewhere else.

It would appear these 2 are simply patting each other on the back if not actually the same person, there is no defence to what these so called monks are doing with the animals in question, for them it is simply a money making proposition, the animals are purely the means of doing it. Previous animal experience, does that mean you had a puppy or kitten at one stage, maybe lived on a farm with livestock, raised chickens etc but knowing people that know people really taught you a lot, maybe you could have read a book or two as well.......

[tilaceer]

I do not believe I am being hypocritical.

I have not seen any evidence of doping. On my visits, the animals did not appear to be drugged, (to me).

The question was simply, is there any evidence ?

I am prepared to accept the possibility that drugging does occur, all I ask is has anyone seen any evidence to support this, rather than just opinion and hearsay masquerading as fact

Had this been a known issue when I used to visit, then I certainly would not have supported it.

[toybits]

Why should the Parks Chief even have to ASK? It is is wrong, then the Monks have no right to hold those tigers hostage.

[worgeordie]

So the Government is now going into Tiger breeding and looking after all these animals,

as well as Rice,Rubber,and other agricultural products,hope the Tigers fair better.

regards worgeordie

[kimamey]

" they abuse these animals with narcotics"

"and not drugged all day "

Does anyone have absolute proof of this, or is it just hearsay and conjecture ?

I have always taken an interest in this temple, and used to visit it frequently in the older days before it became much more commercialised. During those visits, I never felt the animals were drugged but possibly lethargic due to just being fed and the heat. On some occasions, due to extreme heat, many of the older tigers were not taken to the quarry, but remained in their enclosures, and we had access to the younger cats under the trees. These cats were extremely active, and did not appear to be under the influence of narcotics.

I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, but I would appreciate if anyone knows if these cats have ever been tested by an independent reliable source, (yes I know I am opening myself up to claims of corruption, this is Thailand, money talks..etc). But, at some point I would have thought these animals would have needed veterinary care, and whether it be hair, feces or urine, would have thought testing relatively easy.

On various forums over the years, I have seen similar accusations, yet despite being asked for proof, nothing has been forthcoming.

Please understand, I am not disputing what you claim, I am only interested in where you got this information or, if anyone else can please point me to a reliable source confirming this. Should this prove to be the case, then obviously these cats need to be removed, (as is happening and tests could now be run), and treated with the humanity and respect they deserve.

Thanks

I've worked in captive animals for a long time now.. not Tigers, but you get to know people who know people. I have also always been interested in this as well.

From what I have been told (and you are correct, no testing has ever taken place that I know of) the tigers do not seem to be drugged. They are over fed so they are docile and sleepy, they are displayed during certain hours of the day (remember that a cat actually sleeps a lot, so if you catch them at these times, they will naturally be sleepy) and they use only certain ages of animals. I believe they only use animals up to a certain age, ie: not after full sexual maturity. All these factors help to keep them under control.

Most of these tigers are born in captivity (probably only the very original ones were not), I know they bottle feed the cubs from an early age so they imprint on humans not other tigers and are obviously extensively handled from a very young age.

If you manage a large cat in this way, you will have a 'tame' and manageable animal for a good few years or until they reach full maturity.

So, in short, I don't believe they are drugging them.

In saying this though, I don't want to say I agree with what they are doing at all. But this is what I think is going on from everyone that I have been able to talk too.

get to know people who know people, well yes, that has to mean you know more than anyone else on this subject , really cant get over some of the bullsh*t that we see in here. Why is it that we see posters with no idea on the subjects trying to raise these simplistic answers to show their "knowledge" recently gained from reading a blog somewhere else.

It would appear these 2 are simply patting each other on the back if not actually the same person, there is no defence to what these so called monks are doing with the animals in question, for them it is simply a money making proposition, the animals are purely the means of doing it. Previous animal experience, does that mean you had a puppy or kitten at one stage, maybe lived on a farm with livestock, raised chickens etc but knowing people that know people really taught you a lot, maybe you could have read a book or two as well.......

Why aren't you criticising those who claim the tigers are drugged but with nothing to back it up as well?

[cumgranosalum]

Every time the temple comes up someone goes off on the allegations of drugging of the animals.

All this actually shows is that they have no idea if the real and serious issues that surround the temple really are.

Thanks to the irresponsible activities of the monks the authorities have 146 tigersvof indeterminate genealogy that can be released into the wild and have no conservation value whatsoever........its an eco-shambles

[boomerangutang]

Killer whales are different than tigers, but there could be some similarities, in relation to keeping a large predator mammals in captivity.

Here's an interesting interview with a man who worked with killer whales for many years, on NPR.org

One way which the two beasts are similar is how they handle being transported - particularly regarding families being broken up:

Many tigers have been born at the wat in recent years, and shipping them to other facilities should take in to account which cubs belong to which litters/parents. Not doing so could cause trauma for the tigers, ....or worse.

Best would be a program to reintroduce big cats to the wild, but for decades now, there hasn't been enough 'wild habitat' to support them. In general, Thailand is Crapville for large natural parks. Even Cambodia is better than Thailand in that dept, and Cambodia has a paucity of undisturbed habitat.

There used to be one-horned rhinos in Thailand, but they've been gone for so long that few Thais are even aware of it.

[cumgranosalum]

Killer whales are different than tigers, but there could be some similarities, in relation to keeping a large predator mammals in captivity.

Here's an interesting interview with a man who worked with killer whales for many years, on NPR.org

One way which the two beasts are similar is how they handle being transported - particularly regarding families being broken up:

Many tigers have been born at the wat in recent years, and shipping them to other facilities should take in to account which cubs belong to which litters/parents. Not doing so could cause trauma for the tigers, ....or worse.

Best would be a program to reintroduce big cats to the wild, but for decades now, there hasn't been enough 'wild habitat' to support them. In general, Thailand is Crapville for large natural parks. Even Cambodia is better than Thailand in that dept, and Cambodia has a paucity of undisturbed habitat.

There used to be one-horned rhinos in Thailand, but they've been gone for so long that few Thais are even aware of it.

Look get this right....there is room in Thailand to potentially support a tiger population of 2000!!!!

It is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that any of the tigers in the temple could ever be released into the wild.....there is only ONE project anywhere in the world that can claim any sort of success and it is beyond any wildest dreams that Thailand has the expertise or finance to undertake such a project at all.

Edited April 20, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

Yes, I know people that watch FOX not news. So I guess they know the truth about everything too?

These are predators, they are not docile creatures like you will find at a petting zoo. Get one of these beautiful animals off their meds for a day or too and then I will give you a month of my salary if you will go run a couple laps around one of the adults. If you are still alive after 30 mins in the cage with him I will gladly pay you.

It is more likely there won't be much left of you to burn.

Treating these animals like this is disgusting!!

If you have not tested blood samples how are you able to say they are drugged ? Truth is, you can't.

And you can't say they are not either so what is the point of getting obsessed with this ridiculous red herring???

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed:

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[cookee68]

" they abuse these animals with narcotics"

"and not drugged all day "

Does anyone have absolute proof of this, or is it just hearsay and conjecture ?

I have always taken an interest in this temple, and used to visit it frequently in the older days before it became much more commercialised. During those visits, I never felt the animals were drugged but possibly lethargic due to just being fed and the heat. On some occasions, due to extreme heat, many of the older tigers were not taken to the quarry, but remained in their enclosures, and we had access to the younger cats under the trees. These cats were extremely active, and did not appear to be under the influence of narcotics.

I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, but I would appreciate if anyone knows if these cats have ever been tested by an independent reliable source, (yes I know I am opening myself up to claims of corruption, this is Thailand, money talks..etc). But, at some point I would have thought these animals would have needed veterinary care, and whether it be hair, feces or urine, would have thought testing relatively easy.

On various forums over the years, I have seen similar accusations, yet despite being asked for proof, nothing has been forthcoming.

Please understand, I am not disputing what you claim, I am only interested in where you got this information or, if anyone else can please point me to a reliable source confirming this. Should this prove to be the case, then obviously these cats need to be removed, (as is happening and tests could now be run), and treated with the humanity and respect they deserve.

Thanks

Its a known fact they are drugged up, it is plain knowledge to all the Thai people, and how could they be tested, the monks wont let anybody near them, and they rely on the stupid folk to back them up with offers of good karma in the next life etc, blah, blah ,blah

[cumgranosalum]

" they abuse these animals with narcotics"

"and not drugged all day "

Does anyone have absolute proof of this, or is it just hearsay and conjecture ?

I have always taken an interest in this temple, and used to visit it frequently in the older days before it became much more commercialised. During those visits, I never felt the animals were drugged but possibly lethargic due to just being fed and the heat. On some occasions, due to extreme heat, many of the older tigers were not taken to the quarry, but remained in their enclosures, and we had access to the younger cats under the trees. These cats were extremely active, and did not appear to be under the influence of narcotics.

I am not saying you are wrong in your assumptions, but I would appreciate if anyone knows if these cats have ever been tested by an independent reliable source, (yes I know I am opening myself up to claims of corruption, this is Thailand, money talks..etc). But, at some point I would have thought these animals would have needed veterinary care, and whether it be hair, feces or urine, would have thought testing relatively easy.

On various forums over the years, I have seen similar accusations, yet despite being asked for proof, nothing has been forthc

Please understand, I am not disputing what you claim, I am only interested in where you got this information or, if anyone else can please point me to a reliable source confirming this. Should this prove to be the case, then obviously these cats need to be removed, (as is happening and tests could now be run), and treated with the humanity and respect they deserve.

Thanks

Its a known fact they are drugged up, it is plain knowledge to all the Thai people, and how could they be tested, the monks wont let anybody near them, and they rely on the stupid folk to back them up with offers of good karma in the next life etc, blah, blah ,blah

"Its a known fact they are drugged up"

Statements like this are part of the reason it has taken so long to get any action taken against the temple.

It is hard enough to convince the authorities that the place goes against all principal!es of conservation etc without baseless comments like this clouding the issues that really matter.

You are part of the problem....not the solution

Edited April 20, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[LuckyLew]

why ask?

do not ask

take . seize

how can a bunch of monks stop the military?

seems these monks are more powerful that Mr P

[cumgranosalum]

Here is a link that summarises the situation at the temple ... The WFFT is in direct contact with the DNP....

https://m.facebook.com/WildlifeFriendsFoundation

Here arw the furst 3 sentences.....

Tiger temple to lose its tigers on April 24th The Wildlife Friends Foundation Thailand (WFFT) and the Wildlife Friends International (WFI) support the authorities in planning to remove the tigers from the tiger temple in Kanchanaburi province,, Thailand. For several years the uncontrolled (in)breeding of tigers at the temple has seen a rise from 4 individuals to a staggering 147 tigers currently at the temple."

Edited April 20, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

why ask?

do not ask

take . seize

how can a bunch of monks stop the military?

seems these monks are more powerful that Mr P

Get up to speed!! The temple has been approached and asked for decades by various wildlife organisations and government bidiues but have shgunned all advice and help..thus this disaster has been created.

It seems par for the course foirnpoeoplebto post on this topic who are grossly under informed on it.