41 airlines need to be recertified by July: Prajin

[webfact]

41 airlines need to be recertified by July: Prajin
SUCHAT SRITAMA
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- THE Transport Ministry is considering asking the prime minister to use Article 44 to help "solve" urgent aviation safety problems, including the need to recertify 41 airlines by the end of June.

Minister Prajin Juntong said he was may seek use of Article 44 after meeting yesterday with airlines and aviation agencies on fixing the aviation crisis. Several issues had to be fixed in coming months, such as hiring aviation experts, budgeting, plus a short-term action plan.

Prajin said airlines such as Thai Airways, Nok Air, NokScoot, and Thai AirAsia would send 18 experts to help draft an aviation safety manual, which needs to be completed by mid-year.

Aviation experts from Canada will also team up at the end of this month, plus the US, Australia, Singapore, China, Japan and South Korea will all send officials to join the group later.

He said once the safety manual is drawn up, 41 airlines operating in Thailand - 28 foreign airlines and 13 Thai airlines - will be given new operating certificates from June. This is to meet safety standards set by the International Civil Aviation Organisation or ICAO.

The ministry also will recertify seven airlines so they can carry dangerous goods in and out Thailand.

Prajin said the ministry would continue work with civil aviation bodies in Japan, South Korea and China to get approval for charter flights from Thailand before the end of next month.

The ministry will report to the PM today on the aviation safety moves it needs to undertake, plus its plan to meet the head of the ICAO.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/41-airlines-need-to-be-recertified-by-July-Prajin-30258318.html

-- The Nation 2015-04-20

[EricBerg]

Another safe face thing?

Some Thai airliners are in trouble and now 41 foreign and Thai ones need to be recertified. In the meantime they hope they'll get charter flights from LOS approved by Japan, South Korea and China. So sad.

[Costas2008]

That's the way it works in Thailand.

You hurt them by banning their flights and they decide to move their asses and do something.

Mai Ben Rai is not a universal culture.....only applies to Thailand.

[scorecard]

I'm not an aviation person but seems to me this is about two major subjects:

- Safety

- Security

Does security include proper final check to leave the gate lounge and enter the aircraft?

I hope so because I fly often and some Thai based airlines don't check this properly.

I contacted the Civil Aviation authority and after many transferred calls I got a lady who spoke good English and she confirmed:

- The final gate lounge check requirement / protocol is the same for international and domestic flights, by Thai regulations and by international law.

- The airline staff must check:

- The name on the boarding pass is exactly the same as the name on the ID card or passport

- The person presenting the documents is the same person as the photo on the ID card or passport.

I mentioned to her that many airlines never check the photo / same actual person. Her response, they have to by law, you should tell the airline HO.

I have, they just laugh.

[baboon]

Does anyone know which foreign carriers they have their eye on?

[Commerce]

THE Transport Ministry is considering asking the prime minister to use Article 44 to help "solve" urgent aviation safety problems, including the need to recertify 41 airlines by the end of June.

Minister Prajin Juntong said he was may seek use of Article 44 after meeting yesterday with airlines and aviation agencies on fixing the aviation crisis.

______________________________________________

This Article 44 must be akin to Tinkerbell's magic wand. Make a wish, and Boom! - the solution is implemented and all is rectified as in order, all upon the order given from the main man, whatever order that may be only Peter Pan himself knows.

It's about time the crew at the top started to realise that this ain't no Disneyland........ but... then again? .

[berybert]

Thailand has aviation experts. The Thai PM we can assume knows nothing about aviation whatsoever.

Why on earth are these people reporting to him for ?

One thing that amazes me reading about Thai and other Asian airlines is the lack of training the staff seem to have in the event of an emergency.

If there is bad turbulence or a wheel doesn't come down, there are always reports of the service crew on the plane screaming and crying and waiting to die. When that is the time they should be telling the passengers to keep calm and go thru the so called safety procedures.

Edited April 20, 2015 by berybert

[Chao Lao Beach]

28 foreign airlines and 13 Thai airlines - will be given new operating certificates from June.

Why are the Thais issueing operating certs for other countries? And WHICH airlines ?

[billd766]

I'm not an aviation person but seems to me this is about two major subjects:

- Safety

- Security

Does security include proper final check to leave the gate lounge and enter the aircraft?

I hope so because I fly often and some Thai based airlines don't check this properly.

I contacted the Civil Aviation authority and after many transferred calls I got a lady who spoke good English and she confirmed:

- The final gate lounge check requirement / protocol is the same for international and domestic flights, by Thai regulations and by international law.

- The airline staff must check:

- The name on the boarding pass is exactly the same as the name on the ID card or passport

- The person presenting the documents is the same person as the photo on the ID card or passport.

I mentioned to her that many airlines never check the photo / same actual person. Her response, they have to by law, you should tell the airline HO.

I have, they just laugh.

Many years ago I was at Heathrow on a flight to Caracas, Venezuela.. Had had passed through every check and were seated ready for the off. The cabin crew were buzzing up and down the aisles clicking their number counters like crazy and coming up 1 to many every time. We all had to disembark, baggage offloaded and wait in the lounge for reboarding.

The reason was that a woman with no passport or boarding card had got from the ground side to the airside, into the lounge and onto the aircraft yet had no passport or boarding card. She was eventually found and after the baggage was reloaded, we boarded and flew off into the sunset some 6 hours late,

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I'm not an aviation person but seems to me this is about two major subjects:

- Safety

- Security

Does security include proper final check to leave the gate lounge and enter the aircraft?

I hope so because I fly often and some Thai based airlines don't check this properly.

I contacted the Civil Aviation authority and after many transferred calls I got a lady who spoke good English and she confirmed:

- The final gate lounge check requirement / protocol is the same for international and domestic flights, by Thai regulations and by international law.

- The airline staff must check:

- The name on the boarding pass is exactly the same as the name on the ID card or passport

- The person presenting the documents is the same person as the photo on the ID card or passport.

I mentioned to her that many airlines never check the photo / same actual person. Her response, they have to by law, you should tell the airline HO.

I have, they just laugh.

Many years ago I was at Heathrow on a flight to Caracas, Venezuela.. Had had passed through every check and were seated ready for the off. The cabin crew were buzzing up and down the aisles clicking their number counters like crazy and coming up 1 to many every time. We all had to disembark, baggage offloaded and wait in the lounge for reboarding.

The reason was that a woman with no passport or boarding card had got from the ground side to the airside, into the lounge and onto the aircraft yet had no passport or boarding card. She was eventually found and after the baggage was reloaded, we boarded and flew off into the sunset some 6 hours late,

Another example, at CM some months ago two passengers had boarded from wheelchairs and needed a lot of assistance to get them from the wheelchairs into the aircraft seats, and the cabin crew were clearly concerned because they had no prior notice. They checked further and realized the two passengers were on the wrong flight. Should have been realized at the gate lounge.

And more to share: A few months back one of the budget carriers announced that it had gained access to an international always up to date passport database (from memory operated by part of Interpol), and they were checking every booking against the database.

In the first 60 days they discovered (in their Thailand operations) 29 passengers who had quoted fake passport numbers or stolen passports, the majority were stolen passports.

So an obvious question, who travels on a stolen passport?

Surely there is reason to assume such passengers have an ulterior motive, terrorism etc., or they are fleeing criminals etc.

Edited April 20, 2015 by scorecard

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thailand has aviation experts. The Thai PM we can assume knows nothing about aviation whatsoever.

Why on earth are these people reporting to him for ?

One thing that amazes me reading about Thai and other Asian airlines is the lack of training the staff seem to have in the event of an emergency.

If there is bad turbulence or a wheel doesn't come down, there are always reports of the service crew on the plane screaming and crying and waiting to die. When that is the time they should be telling the passengers to keep calm and go thru the so called safety procedures.

Years back a friend who worked at the main carrier shared that many staff make excuses to not come to emergency training and nothing done about it.

[JoePai]

Not too long ago I was flying BKK Air from Swampy to Chiang Mai. I arrived at the gate rather late but with half a dozen passengers in front waiting to go through. I showed my boarding pass and ID and walked out to the bus as plane was on a stand at the far end.

Looking at my seat number I boarded the plan by the rear steps and walked down the plan but could not find my row. Being confused I ask a stewardess where the row was and she said they did not have a row of that number !

I said you must have and showed her my boarding pass only for her to ask where I was going – I naturally said Chiang Mai to which she said the plane was off to Samui.

In all fairness they were good and phoned up for a mini bus to meet the plane and take me to the correct plane but it shows (A) I was in a rush and should have doubled checked the correct gate – at Swampy you have 2 gates to the same waiting area, in this case Gate 3 and Gate 3A, and ( they do not check very well who gets on their planes.

[Baerboxer]

28 foreign airlines and 13 Thai airlines - will be given new operating certificates from June.

Why are the Thais issueing operating certs for other countries? And WHICH airlines ?

Following the review and implementation of the new rules Thailand will become the top international safety and security standard; a must for all airlines. They certainly don't want inferior foreign airlines flying here that don't meet their new world class exemplary standards.

[realenglish1]

Re-certify the 13 airlines. Sounds fishy to me . How can you say you are going to re certify their airlines in question without having them first go through a thorough screening process.

Is this a rubber stamp process ?

[BSJ]

Re-certify the 13 airlines. Sounds fishy to me . How can you say you are going to re certify their airlines in question without having them first go through a thorough screening process.

Is this a rubber stamp process ?

"Is this a rubber stamp process ?" What rubbish! There is a lot involved in the process.....but the paperwork has already been done.

[tigermonkey]

Does anyone know which foreign carriers they have their eye on?

They should have their eye on all of them. That is the entire point. Thailand DCA is responsible for the safe operation of all foreign carriers when they are in Thai airspace. Thailand DCA should be doing inspections of foreign registered aircraft while on the ground in Thailand as well as overseeing their overall secure and safe operation. The DCA is no longer qualified or certified to perform any of these tasks,

This article is a good summary :http://asia.nikkei.com/magazine/20150409-The-big-tax-squeeze/Politics-Economy/Thailand-scrambles-to-avert-global-new-flight-ban

Edited April 20, 2015 by tigermonkey

[tigermonkey]

28 foreign airlines and 13 Thai airlines - will be given new operating certificates from June.

Why are the Thais issueing operating certs for other countries? And WHICH airlines ?

Thailand DCA issues operating certificates for all carriers which operate into and out of Thailand, as well full certification for any Thai based airlines, within Thai and international airspace. These certificates are issued periodically with regard to all operations, with extra emphasis on safety and security. The Thai DCA is currently NOT certified/authorized to issue any of these certifications. The new operating certificates would be for any certificates which have been issued by Thailand DCA during the period for which they had no authority to issue certifications.

[tigermonkey]

Re-certify the 13 airlines. Sounds fishy to me . How can you say you are going to re certify their airlines in question without having them first go through a thorough screening process.

Is this a rubber stamp process ?

This a long way from a rubber stamp process. This is one unholy mess to be cleaned up. All the manuals and procedures need to be updated or completely rewritten. Thailand is receiving a great deal of international help on this one. All will be done very thoroughly.

It is my understanding that all or some of the certifications will be provisionally issued in the name of one or more of the assisting nations, if Thailand is not ready in time, which is probable. So, for example, THAI Air could be operating on a temporary certification from Transport Canada, until The Thailand DCA is fully recertified.

[ezzra]

Unfortunately, in some countries, it takes planes loaded with hundreds of passengers to fall of or explodes

in the sky before the power that be have realized the error of their ways... keep those planes flying

at any cost, schedules and revenues are the prime concerns, let the insurance companies take care

of the costs of cleaning up....

[simon43]

Why are the Thais issueing operating certs for other countries? And WHICH airlines ?

My assumption from this article is that the Thai airlines have been caught 'with their pants down'.

But to try to camoflage their cock-ups, they are publically stating that ALL airlines (Thai and foreign), that operate in Thail;and need to pass this new certification, (even though the foreign ones are already correctly certified by international organisations).

So the Thai public naively assume that it is some sort of new safety certification that applies to all airlines, not that actually it is only the Thai airlines that have been caught out.

That's my take on all this - perhaps I've been living in LoS too long....

[wabothai]

recommendation of madame TOT, dear boys we have 44 you know.

[tigermonkey]

Why are the Thais issueing operating certs for other countries? And WHICH airlines ?

My assumption from this article is that the Thai airlines have been caught 'with their pants down'.

But to try to camoflage their cock-ups, they are publically stating that ALL airlines (Thai and foreign), that operate in Thail;and need to pass this new certification, (even though the foreign ones are already correctly certified by international organisations).

So the Thai public naively assume that it is some sort of new safety certification that applies to all airlines, not that actually it is only the Thai airlines that have been caught out.

That's my take on all this - perhaps I've been living in LoS too long....

Actually, this has almost nothing to do with Thai airlines or foreign airlines. They are merely the pawns in this games, although if they fail their new certifications ( now under international supervision) it will get interesting.

The central issue is years (decades?) of neglect by Thailand DCA, which now finds itself with neither procedures nor personnel to do the job which it must do starting in June. DCA has 18 field personnel - it's laughable. There is also the issue of DCA owning AOT, which it is responsible for regulating.

A colossal mess, which never be sorted without massive international help.

The Thais that I have spoken to about it, think that it is an initiative by the junta to improve aviation safety in Thailand.

[Alwyn]

THE Transport Ministry is considering asking the prime minister to use Article 44 to help "solve" urgent aviation safety problems, including the need to recertify 41 airlines by the end of June.

Minister Prajin Juntong said he was may seek use of Article 44 after meeting yesterday with airlines and aviation agencies on fixing the aviation crisis.

______________________________________________

This Article 44 must be akin to Tinkerbell's magic wand. Make a wish, and Boom! - the solution is implemented and all is rectified as in order, all upon the order given from the main man, whatever order that may be only Peter Pan himself knows.

It's about time the crew at the top started to realise that this ain't no Disneyland........ but... then again? .

You beat me to it, I was going to say similar, is 44 some kind of magic wand? You win!

[ChrisY1]

Re-certify the 13 airlines. Sounds fishy to me . How can you say you are going to re certify their airlines in question without having them first go through a thorough screening process.

Is this a rubber stamp process ?

This a long way from a rubber stamp process. This is one unholy mess to be cleaned up. All the manuals and procedures need to be updated or completely rewritten. Thailand is receiving a great deal of international help on this one. All will be done very thoroughly.

It is my understanding that all or some of the certifications will be provisionally issued in the name of one or more of the assisting nations, if Thailand is not ready in time, which is probable. So, for example, THAI Air could be operating on a temporary certification from Transport Canada, until The Thailand DCA is fully recertified.

Good information Tiger...thank you

[koratjohn]

Today is 20 Apr, this expert is thinking about asking the use of Article 44 to force a meeting to start a "Draft" that needs to be completed ready by "mid-year" so the certification of airlines can be accomplished.

Quite the optimistic I would think. Thankfully the Canadians are gonna be there for a fall back plan..

[Torrens54]

That's the way it works in Thailand.

You hurt them by banning their flights and they decide to move their asses and do something.

Mai Ben Rai is not a universal culture.....only applies to Thailand.

Errrr Costas,

I think the reason for that particular expression had its origins in Greece, and the current bunch of Commies running the joint are doing their best to perpetuate it.

[Johnny S]

In july this will happen to Thai aviation and the nutjobs dealing with it:

[gk10002000]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thailand has aviation experts. The Thai PM we can assume knows nothing about aviation whatsoever.

Why on earth are these people reporting to him for ?

One thing that amazes me reading about Thai and other Asian airlines is the lack of training the staff seem to have in the event of an emergency.

If there is bad turbulence or a wheel doesn't come down, there are always reports of the service crew on the plane screaming and crying and waiting to die. When that is the time they should be telling the passengers to keep calm and go thru the so called safety procedures.

Years back a friend who worked at the main carrier shared that many staff make excuses to not come to emergency training and nothing done about it.

Thai culture and mentality is challenging for many things that we Westerners take for granted. Sure Thais understand following directions and doing what they are told, but they don't do the question and answer and learning process very well. They are afraid to ask because they would show they didn't know or did not understand. They are afraid to question authority. This all hampers things