time to stop self describing as a flaung.... spelled the way they pronounce it

[Jingthing]

OK, I am not telling anyone what to use.

I do think it is really moronic to use that term for ourselves though and I'm entitled to that opinion as well.

I did also say you do not NEED to play into that game ... that's not the same thing as telling anyone what to use.

If you do play you have made that choice ... that's all.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Jingthing

[SoiBiker]

couldn't care less if i am being treated well, i find actions much more pejorative than words.

given the multiplicity of spellings the OP attributes to the word i reckon its quite clear his understanding of spoken thai is quite limited.

I think that's often the case with those who object to the word - combined with a healthy dose of paranoia. It's often the only word they're able to pick out from the conversation of those around them, and they twist themselves into angry knots assuming that those dreadful Thai people are saying nasty things about them.

Whereas they're probably just saying 'What's up with that farang guy? Why has he got that weird look on his face?'

[SoiBiker]

OK, I am not telling anyone what to use.

I do think it is really moronic to use that term for ourselves though and I'm entitled to that opinion as well.

I think it's pretty stupid to assign racist motives to a neutral descriptor. I guess we can leave it to others to decide which opinion they think is more valid.

[Jingthing]

OK, I am not telling anyone what to use.

I do think it is really moronic to use that term for ourselves though and I'm entitled to that opinion as well.

I think it's pretty stupid to assign racist motives to a neutral descriptor. I guess we can leave it to others to decide which opinion they think is more valid.

What are you on about?

I didn't say it was racist.

I said it was part of the RACIAL classification system of The Orientals of Thailand and indeed it definitely is.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Jingthing

[richard_smith237]

I don't hear the term used by Wife's family or friends when they are referring to me.

I don't hear the term used by my Thai friends or Wife's family when speaking in English and referring to other Westerners - They will use the term Westerner or Foreigner.

I very rarely, but do sometimes hear the term when my Thai Friends or Wife's family are speaking Thai with each other.

In fact... the only time I do hear the term is usually by someone less educated...

It may not be a racist term, it may be meant in an endearing manner, but I've also commonly herd it used along with other adjectives as a slur.

I certainly won't use it to refer to myself or other Western friends... instead I use 'Westerner' or their nationality.

Slipping Thai words in Western sentences just makes people sound like they learned their Thai in the nearest girly bar....

[SoiBiker]

It may not be a racist term, it may be meant in an endearing manner, but I've also commonly herd it used along with other adjectives as a slur.

That doesn't make it a racist word. You could call someone a 'white bastard', but that doesn't mean the word 'white' is racist in itself.

[Naam]

I would rather be called a farang than an alien or an infidel.

Doesn't bother me.

The question is NOT what The Orientals call us in Thailand but rather what we call OURSELVES!

Let The Orientals in Thailand use whatever terms they like and by no means be bothered by it ... that's what THEY do.

But that doesn't mean we need to play their game.

If you're really a "flaung" how come the moment you leave Thai airspace, you're not?

Because you never were in the first place.

It's in the brainwashing of The Orientals of Thailand. Let them keep it ... keep your brain intact.

when i fly from Thailand to India, Pakistan or Afghanistan i morph from Farang to "Ferangi", in Saudi Arabia and Yemen i am a "Franji". a word which in Hindi, Hindustani, Urdu, Pashtoo and Arabic means "Western Foreigner".

those who think Farang is basically a derogatory word are ignorants who have my sympathy because they suffer from inferiority complexes. period!

[YeahSiam]

What's wrong with being called an alien? It's a perfectly legitimate, neutral term for what most of us here are.

You're wasting your time. These people think

white skin and money should render them

immune to classification even if they themselves

have used seriously offensive words to address

or describe minorities in their countries of origin.

[richard_smith237]

I would rather be called a farang than an alien or an infidel.

Doesn't bother me.

The question is NOT what The Orientals call us in Thailand but rather what we call OURSELVES!

Let The Orientals in Thailand use whatever terms they like and by no means be bothered by it ... that's what THEY do.

But that doesn't mean we need to play their game.

If you're really a "flaung" how come the moment you leave Thai airspace, you're not?

Because you never were in the first place.

It's in the brainwashing of The Orientals of Thailand. Let them keep it ... keep your brain intact.

when i fly from Thailand to India, Pakistan or Afghanistan i morph from Farang to "Ferangi", in Saudi Arabia and Yemen i am a "Franji". a word which in Hindi, Hindustani, Urdu, Pashtoo and Arabic means "Western Foreigner".

those who think Farang is basically a derogatory word are ignorants who have my sympathy because they suffer from inferiority complexes. period!

Throughout history we have observed the development of language, particularly how some words once used with no ill intention have become slurs, often racial slurs.

What many of us see is the potential deterioration of the word Farang to a degree whereby its not readily acceptable in polite society.

[Jingthing]

I would rather be called a farang than an alien or an infidel.

Doesn't bother me.

The question is NOT what The Orientals call us in Thailand but rather what we call OURSELVES!

Let The Orientals in Thailand use whatever terms they like and by no means be bothered by it ... that's what THEY do.

But that doesn't mean we need to play their game.

If you're really a "flaung" how come the moment you leave Thai airspace, you're not?

Because you never were in the first place.

It's in the brainwashing of The Orientals of Thailand. Let them keep it ... keep your brain intact.

when i fly from Thailand to India, Pakistan or Afghanistan i morph from Farang to "Ferangi", in Saudi Arabia and Yemen i am a "Franji". a word which in Hindi, Hindustani, Urdu, Pashtoo and Arabic means "Western Foreigner".

those who think Farang is basically a derogatory word are ignorants who have my sympathy because they suffer from inferiority complexes. period!

Don't put words in my mouth. I did not say what you just accused me of saying. Cheers.

[Naam]

I would rather be called a farang than an alien or an infidel.

Doesn't bother me.

The question is NOT what The Orientals call us in Thailand but rather what we call OURSELVES!

Let The Orientals in Thailand use whatever terms they like and by no means be bothered by it ... that's what THEY do.

But that doesn't mean we need to play their game.

If you're really a "flaung" how come the moment you leave Thai airspace, you're not?

Because you never were in the first place.

It's in the brainwashing of The Orientals of Thailand. Let them keep it ... keep your brain intact.

when i fly from Thailand to India, Pakistan or Afghanistan i morph from Farang to "Ferangi", in Saudi Arabia and Yemen i am a "Franji". a word which in Hindi, Hindustani, Urdu, Pashtoo and Arabic means "Western Foreigner".

those who think Farang is basically a derogatory word are ignorants who have my sympathy because they suffer from inferiority complexes. period!

Throughout history we have observed the development of language, particularly how some words once used with no ill intention have become slurs, often racial slurs.

What many of us see is the potential deterioration of the word Farang to a degree whereby its not readily acceptable in polite society.

that might indeed be the case but not really a valid reason to condemn the expression outright as derogatory.

[SoiBiker]

Don't put words in my mouth.

Don't take words out of ours.

[richard_smith237]

It may not be a racist term, it may be meant in an endearing manner, but I've also commonly herd it used along with other adjectives as a slur.

That doesn't make it a racist word. You could call someone a 'white bastard', but that doesn't mean the word 'white' is racist in itself.

Fair point... What then if I refer to my Asian friend as 'Yellow Bastard'.... any racist tone ?

The point I make here is that if we as Western / White / Caucasian folk seem to have to accept the brunt of any potential slight, insult which could be racist, we are just expected to suck it up - I think thats fair enough, there are too many childish issues in the world already. However, shouldn't we all be playing by the same rules ?

[Jingthing]

Don't put words in my mouth.

Don't take words out of ours.

Whatever that's supposed to mean.

[bapoboy]

There is a Thai word for foreigner, but you will rarely hear a Thai use it. (Chao Tang Chat).

Edited April 22, 2015 by bapoboy

[SoiBiker]

It may not be a racist term, it may be meant in an endearing manner, but I've also commonly herd it used along with other adjectives as a slur.

That doesn't make it a racist word. You could call someone a 'white bastard', but that doesn't mean the word 'white' is racist in itself.

Fair point... What then if I refer to my Asian friend as 'Yellow Bastard'.... any racist tone ?

The point I make here is that if we as Western / White / Caucasian folk seem to have to accept the brunt of any potential slight, insult which could be racist, we are just expected to suck it up - I think thats fair enough, there are too many childish issues in the world already. However, shouldn't we all be playing by the same rules ?

Sure. Racism is wrong. But just using the word 'farang' isn't racist.

[richard_smith237]

when i fly from Thailand to India, Pakistan or Afghanistan i morph from Farang to "Ferangi", in Saudi Arabia and Yemen i am a "Franji". a word which in Hindi, Hindustani, Urdu, Pashtoo and Arabic means "Western Foreigner".

those who think Farang is basically a derogatory word are ignorants who have my sympathy because they suffer from inferiority complexes. period!

Throughout history we have observed the development of language, particularly how some words once used with no ill intention have become slurs, often racial slurs.

What many of us see is the potential deterioration of the word Farang to a degree whereby its not readily acceptable in polite society.

that might indeed be the case but not really a valid reason to condemn the expression outright as derogatory.

Agreed... at least not yet...

Additionally - usually its pretty easy to recognise when the term is used with polite or derogatory intentions... In the same manner they could use any word, the delivery and tone is the all important aspect here.....

[richard_smith237]

It may not be a racist term, it may be meant in an endearing manner, but I've also commonly herd it used along with other adjectives as a slur.

That doesn't make it a racist word. You could call someone a 'white bastard', but that doesn't mean the word 'white' is racist in itself.

Fair point... What then if I refer to my Asian friend as 'Yellow Bastard'.... any racist tone ?

The point I make here is that if we as Western / White / Caucasian folk seem to have to accept the brunt of any potential slight, insult which could be racist, we are just expected to suck it up - I think thats fair enough, there are too many childish issues in the world already. However, shouldn't we all be playing by the same rules ?

Sure. Racism is wrong. But just using the word 'farang' isn't racist.

Agreed, its not racist... But it has been, can and is used in a derogatory manner towards Westerners...

Equally so, experiences show us that this term is also used as an innocent identifier...

Its use is potentially easy to misinterpret for some.... IMO its a somewhat clumsy word to use, which is why I guess the more well travelled and educated Thai's tend not to use it.

As such as Westerner I prefer not to condone the word Farang by using it myself.

[SoiBiker]

Agreed, its not racist... But it has been, can and is used in a derogatory manner towards Westerners...

Equally so, experiences show us that this term is also used as an innocent identifier...

Its use is potentially easy to misinterpret for some.... IMO its a somewhat clumsy word to use, which is why I guess the more well travelled and educated Thai's tend not to use it.

As such as Westerner I prefer not to condone the word Farang by using it myself.

You could say the same about 'white'. Do you refuse to condone the use of that word too?

[Naam]

in my mother tongue there is a saying. translated in English: "it's the sound that makes the music!" any attribute such as "white, black, foreigner, asian, westerner" can be expressed by different intonations to make it sound derogatory or quite neutral.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

The thai media and right up there is Thai visa who uses it, and if you notice it is frequently used to dehumanize the foreigners especially if there was an altercation,

It is this blanket grouping to demean that is being compounded by the use if the word on daily speech

Take it out of daily speech and may be a just maybe when a vacationer from England or Australian or Norway is beat to death with a hoe, maybe the rest if the Thai reading it would feel some actual sympathy if it was called a German tourist was killed, and the Thai woman with two German kids would actually understand what happened because the victim was given more dignity ook at her own mixed German kid and fear

if he is identified as a German man, and not some stupid one name for all who dont belong in Thailand, maybe that woman will start to have some empathy And fear for her own kids..... And cause change from the ground up

this was written on my cell phone and type visa is taking up half my page with the ads so if it doesn't make perfect sense grammatically well then sorry

[SoiBiker]

The irony of a farang complaining about the way the Thai media refer to his people on a website where the Thais are routinely belittled and abused is delicious.

[WitawatWatawit]

richard_smith237 - #39

What many of us see is the potential deterioration of the word Farang to a degree whereby its not readily acceptable in polite society

A very salient point. In derogatory terms, I don't think it's reached the offensive level of the "n" word, and I have a feeling it probably never will. But it will simmer in the background as a disturbance - especially on TV . Mr Smith also makes another very good point: there are too many childish issues in the world already. Given that the "f" word () doesn't have the emotional intensity of the "n" word, then it's probably better not to react - you might only make it worse. As I said earlier, I don't like it, but I'm not going to remonstrate over it. If I hear a family member, colleague etc saying something like "What's the farang doing?" instead of using my name which they know perfectly well, I'll react by singling out that person and saying my name right in front of their face. But that's the only time I care to react.

[SoiBiker]

You want to remove a word from the language because of the potential that it might be used against you?

How very Orwellian.

[richard_smith237]

The irony of a farang complaining about the way the Thai media refer to his people on a website where the Thais are routinely belittled and abused is delicious.

The words of few vitriolic posters are not representative of the majority. I am not guilty of unfair, unjust, repetitive criticism and belittlement of Thai's simply thorough association of ThaiVisa.com membership. Neither are you...

[Chonburiram]

I'm proud to be a farang! Farang power! Oi!

[richard_smith237]

You want to remove a word from the language because of the potential that it might be used against you?

How very Orwellian.

I prefer not to use the word myself.... agreeing with the Thread Topic.

Others are free to make their choice.

The relationship between family, friends and myself is always one of mutual respect. Fortunately I have found myself in very few situations where close family and friends use the word farang, instead choosing more polite alternatives.

That said, I won't be offended if and when I hear its use unless in an obviously negative manner, but then any word in reference to myself in a negative manner may be somewhat insulting, thus its not the word but the intention associated with a word.

As with the thread title, I have a preference but don't take the whole issue to seriously.

On a web forum it makes for interesting debate to read the differing opinions.

[WitawatWatawit]

I'm proud to be a farang! Farang power! Oi!

Says the walking ATM.

[richard_smith237]

Agreed, its not racist... But it has been, can and is used in a derogatory manner towards Westerners...

Equally so, experiences show us that this term is also used as an innocent identifier...

Its use is potentially easy to misinterpret for some.... IMO its a somewhat clumsy word to use, which is why I guess the more well travelled and educated Thai's tend not to use it.

As such as Westerner I prefer not to condone the word Farang by using it myself.

You could say the same about 'white'. Do you refuse to condone the use of that word too?

Interesting point: I think use of the word White and Black as identifiers is acceptable... however, Yellow ??? its strange how the rules of whats personally and socially acceptable vary...

Context play the all important role in the use of any potentially negative word, as does the intention with which those words are used.

[Cylon]

In New Zealand, Maoris call us Pakeha, Its only a name for someone other than themselves,get over it.