Your Children's Future

[thehelmsman]

So, you have kids with your Thai wife. Alot of talk about Thailand's education system. What is your idea of a bright future for your kids? Boy or girl will make a difference I would think. I have a girl and debate - school in Thailand or school in the states? As adults, would they be happier in Thailand or the states?

I'm leaning towards staying in Thailand where the family bond is much stronger. Perhaps moving to an area of better schools. Not everyone can afford International school fees of $1000./Mo and up.

Not all our half thai kids will be movie stars although I'm sure many mothers are secretly hoping so. I'm betting good english speaking skills will be a big plus. Those with older kids, What path are they on?

And, those with young kids - What are your expectations?

[pinkpanther99]

As a father to a two and half year old, my daughters up coming education is something I am thinking about more and more.

Expectations? First and foremost that my daughter is happy.

I have no interest in pushing her in one direction or another but will encourage her from an early age to make up her own mind and think for herself - something which is seldom shown to Thai kids and certainly not taught in Thai schools.

As for schooling, I've worked in a Thai school, which was meant to be the best in that particular area, even so it was pretty abysmal. I really worry about this. My daughter will be going to the best school we can afford. I think it will perhaps be up to us parents to fill in the gaps left by the Thai education system.

I'd be interested to hear from parents of older kids who stayed in Thailand rather than sending their kids to school in the West. Do you have any regrets? Do you feel your kids missed out by going to school in Thailand? Is there a feeling of guilt? Is the Thai school system really that bad?

[cmsally]

A lot of us have kids that are already there so to speak. They were schooled mostly in Thailand , but had lots of exchange trips abroad and went to Uni abroad. They had the best we could afford and are on par or better with my friends kids overseas. However do keep in mind that even though you might have a fantastic education, the salaries in Thailand are abyssmal.

[awayego]

It's a difficult one and for many, me included, it's cost driven. I can't afford an International School for my five year old boy so he goes to what has worked out to be a pretty good big private school with an English Programme (they have an International Programme too but beyond my means).

Although it's a bit far off yet for my son, the school is planning to give the option to EP'ers to study for the European Baccalaureate (and likely English 'A' Levels too). In any case, I would have encouraged and supported him to study for either through distance learning regardless.

There is no doubt that Thai secondary and university quals only mean something in Thailand so if parents want to widen the educational and employment opportunities for their kids to Europe/USA/Australasia etc then they either have to study overseas or at least be presented for equivalent quals here.

At least Thai/farang parented kids have a bit of a head start in Thailand, assuming they get the support and encouragement, and as a childless friend once said "he'll be a bigger fish in a little pond anyway" even if he went to a wholly Thai school but had good English skills. I guess there is some truth in that but, like most parents, I want to do the best I can for him. That would actually be to take him to Scotland to live and go to school but it's not realistic, although still an option. My two grown up sons did very well out of the local government schools that they went to and finished up graduating from two of the top universities in UK. Scotland has traditionally always laid great emphasis on education and prioritised it in public spending. Things may be a bit different now but I believe the quality of education is still there and, all other things being equal (which, unfortunately, they are not!), my five year old couldn't do much better than be educated there.

As a retired educationalist myself, I believe that education is the future and, without pressuring him unduly, I will continue to strive to give my son as many options and choices in his future as I can.

[manstr23]

We have a son who will be 10 years old in September. He went to Kindergarten and even 1st grade in Thailand (1st. grade was 90% in English and we spoke English at home,) in a good school. But with a look to good future in Thailand we decided that the chances are minimal. Though off to Germany we went (since he had a German pass already). After 6 month he was fluent in German and is a popular kid in school with good football skills. His comments about Thailand " He will never ever go there" well he is only 9 years old now. His mother loves Thailand but as she has seen differed, her attitude towards her homeland is rather negative.

[Kunjay]

My first born is on the way (boy) and I've done a lot of thinking about his future which includes education in Thailand. Based upon my upbringing and what I've learnt in my life I've come up with a my own education plan for the tiger.

Apart from reading and writing which I believe are the keys to further intelligence as well as basic mathematics I don't feel there's a need to teach anything he doesn't show an interest in. What we seem to do from an early age is erode childrens creativity and instincts by teaching things they're simply not interested in hence why we have so many talent less kids.

What ever he loves or finds an interest in we'll go with because happy kids are inquisitive and inquisitive kids seem to have a greater sense of intelligence.

I also believe that in today's age we outsource to many things especially education and as the person that brought him in to the world I feel it's my duty to be his main teacher in life.

Wish me luck!

[MaeJoMTB]

Don't think too much.

They won't want, what you want.

[Happy Grumpy]

No need for International Schools to get an international education in Thailand.

Students can study at places like the British Council and then sit their O/A Levels with them, the American GED etc. International certificates.

It is quite affordable for the student to leave Thai school at age 12-13 and study the courses with these centers. It also frees up a lot of their time that would otherwise be wasted with marching and having their hair cut against their will.

See the International House site here for info on studying and doing the iGCSE.

5 iGCSE passes are officially considered equivalent to the Thai M6 Cert by the Thai MOE and grants them entrance to Thai Universities.

Note that the iGCSE exams are usually taken at age 15, so straight away you can that after say 2 years of studying for them, they are on an equal level of education as their Thai counterparts are at age 17/18 when taking their M6.

Taking the child out of the Thai schooling system at age 12 and them studying at the IH or BC centers everyday, studying British levels of say, math, geography, history, the sciences, business studies, social studies etc. with Western teachers would be fantastic for them, without the cost of Int. School fees.

I personally think that it is a fantastic option for people with children here of a high school age.

[MaeJoMTB]

^^^ Great idea! ^^^

[mrjonyoung]

My expectations are: 1. To let Thai schools make my children happy and 2. To leave any real education to extracurricular activities.

I know one guy who has home-schooled his 12 daughter with good results. But, socially she is deficient. Most of us dont have the will or the way to do that, besides.

I think with a good personal plan for home education you can supplement what Thai education lacks (which is almost everything except maybe math).

FYI I am teacher on the university level and have 5 years exp in TH schools.

My biggest recommendation for young learners is Starfall.com. My 3 YO daughter loves it and her English as well as counting and shapes and ++ are coming so fast!

I worry about this topic and dont think you can just let thing happen as they will. Thai schools seem just fine up to the age of 4-5 and then I will have to make some harder decisions.

[Water Buffalo]

My child's future is my child's future.

I don't think education is the most important thing in the world and it is up to the individual child anyway. There are a lot of no-hopers in the west. Maybe even more than in Asia, despite education.

Education is a means to an end and Thais are doing fine in terms of making money. Many salaries in the west are awful and most people i know can't get on the property ladder, nor save for the future (despite their so-called good education).

I want my daughter to be safe, healthy, and happy. It is my job to try to make sure this happens.

She already has more in Thailand (house and land) than she could possibly have where I come from.

So, what about her future? Who knows.

But I ain't gonna revolve her life around education. Frankly, it's overrated, in my opinion.

Happiness is number one. You can't buy it, nor study to attain it.

All people really want, at the end of the day, is a happy life.

That is all a parent should want for their child.

[Happy Grumpy]

^^^ Great idea! ^^^

Just looking now and it seems to be kind of taking off.

King Academy also run iGCSE courses.

And just last year a company started doing iGCSE and A Level courses through Siam Language and Computer.

See link.

I read before that it is popular with Chinese families here, to spend 2 yrs studying and then do the iGCSE at 15/16, and then enter university straight away instead of hanging around in Thai schools until 18 and doing the M6 exams.

To me, it really is a no brainer.

[Kunjay]

My child's future is my child's future.

I don't think education is the most important thing in the world and it is up to the individual child anyway. There are a lot of no-hopers in the west. Maybe even more than in Asia, despite education.

Education is a means to an end and Thais are doing fine in terms of making money. Many salaries in the west are awful and most people i know can't get on the property ladder, nor save for the future (despite their so-called good education).

I want my daughter to be safe, healthy, and happy. It is my job to try to make sure this happens.

She already has more in Thailand (house and land) than she could possibly have where I come from.

So, what about her future? Who knows.

But I ain't gonna revolve her life around education. Frankly, it's overrated, in my opinion.

Happiness is number one. You can't buy it, nor study to attain it.

All people really want, at the end of the day, is a happy life.

That is all a parent should want for their child.

Agreed, education is overrated all that does is prepare you for a J.O.B (just obey bitch) educating my son to do everything possible to avoid ever having a job will be my main focus. This begins with not wasting his precious time being forced to learn non life functional things that don't interest him.

Education should not be an institution!

[Happy Grumpy]

No need for International Schools to get an international education in Thailand.

Students can study at places like the British Council and then sit their O/A Levels with them, the American GED etc. International certificates.

It is quite affordable for the student to leave Thai school at age 12-13 and study the courses with these centers. It also frees up a lot of their time that would otherwise be wasted with marching and having their hair cut against their will.

See the International House site here for info on studying and doing the iGCSE.

5 iGCSE passes are officially considered equivalent to the Thai M6 Cert by the Thai MOE and grants them entrance to Thai Universities.

Note that the iGCSE exams are usually taken at age 15, so straight away you can that after say 2 years of studying for them, they are on an equal level of education as their Thai counterparts are at age 17/18 when taking their M6.

Taking the child out of the Thai schooling system at age 12 and them studying at the IH or BC centers everyday, studying British levels of say, math, geography, history, the sciences, business studies, social studies etc. with Western teachers would be fantastic for them, without the cost of Int. School fees.

I personally think that it is a fantastic option for people with children here of a high school age.

This seems to be popular.

This is a good site, for Aims, a very well known education center that offers full courses for many International certs GED, iGCSE, A Levels, IB.

http://aims.co.th/index.html

Their website is excellent and this is the list of iGCSE subjects that can be studied there.

1. Accounting
2. Additional Mathematics
3. Biology
4. Business Studies
5. Chemistry
6. Combined Science
7. Co-ordinated Sciences
8. Development Studies
9. Economics
10. English as a second Language
11. First language English
12. First Language Thai
13. Geography
14. History
15. ICT
16. Literature (English)
17. Mathematics
18. Physics
19. Travel and Tourism

Studied Mon-Friday in 3 month blocks. Pretty much the same as a school semester.

Usually done at age 15, passes in 5 of these are equivalent to the Thai M6 Cert that Thais study at age 17/18. Says it all really.

There is simply no way that I would send a kid to a Thai school (even an EP) when this sort of thing is a viable option.

[Lekong]

Talking of children's future, I need help here. What is the cheapest way to send money from Thailand to the US? I need to send $5050 to the US tomorrow. Advice needed please. It is urgent please.

[richard_smith237]

Its nuts.. I never thought I'd be thinking about this so early with a 16 month old boy....

Recently its become clear to me that he will benefit from a play group - we're starting 2 days a week (Playgroup with Mums) - Kids Academy Ekammai.

It may also be useful to have our child attend pre-school - the emphasis appears to be on fun learning (again at Kids Academy), thus it might be fun for our son to attend a pre-school program from approximately 2 years old.

Costs are approx 60,000 baht per term for 3 days per week.

My take on the importance of pre-school is to ensure our child is sociable with other kids from an early age while he picks up some of the basics from trained professionals. Living in a city is different from growing up in a village back in the UK, there is less community which is where play-group and pre-school comes in.

Junior School is likely to be somewhere close by - (I wouldn't want our child travelling 2-3 hrs a day for school).

Secondary School will be somewhere such as Pattana - Not really much option if we wish for a high standard or Top tier international school education.

[MaeJoMTB]

Costs are approx 60,000 baht per term for 3 days per week.

Good god!

My son's nursery school is 1,800bht/term 5 days a week.

(He's 3, Amphur doesn't take them younger)

[MrBrad]

My child's future is my child's future.

I don't think education is the most important thing in the world and it is up to the individual child anyway. There are a lot of no-hopers in the west. Maybe even more than in Asia, despite education.

Education is a means to an end and Thais are doing fine in terms of making money. Many salaries in the west are awful and most people i know can't get on the property ladder, nor save for the future (despite their so-called good education).

I want my daughter to be safe, healthy, and happy. It is my job to try to make sure this happens.

She already has more in Thailand (house and land) than she could possibly have where I come from.

So, what about her future? Who knows.

But I ain't gonna revolve her life around education. Frankly, it's overrated, in my opinion.

Happiness is number one. You can't buy it, nor study to attain it.

All people really want, at the end of the day, is a happy life.

That is all a parent should want for their child.

Agreed, education is overrated all that does is prepare you for a J.O.B (just obey bitch) educating my son to do everything possible to avoid ever having a job will be my main focus. This begins with not wasting his precious time being forced to learn non life functional things that don't interest him.

Education should not be an institution!

If education is so over-rated, why is it that the rich, super rich, and wealthy make sure their kids get all the education they can possibly afford?

There's something to be said for keeping the rich comfortable, smart, in control of their futures, and keeping the poor under-educated and struggling. It happens in almost all countries, and it's no way for societies to advance.

[Kunjay]

My child's future is my child's future.

I don't think education is the most important thing in the world and it is up to the individual child anyway. There are a lot of no-hopers in the west. Maybe even more than in Asia, despite education.

Education is a means to an end and Thais are doing fine in terms of making money. Many salaries in the west are awful and most people i know can't get on the property ladder, nor save for the future (despite their so-called good education).

I want my daughter to be safe, healthy, and happy. It is my job to try to make sure this happens.

She already has more in Thailand (house and land) than she could possibly have where I come from.

So, what about her future? Who knows.

But I ain't gonna revolve her life around education. Frankly, it's overrated, in my opinion.

Happiness is number one. You can't buy it, nor study to attain it.

All people really want, at the end of the day, is a happy life.

That is all a parent should want for their child.

Agreed, education is overrated all that does is prepare you for a J.O.B (just obey bitch) educating my son to do everything possible to avoid ever having a job will be my main focus. This begins with not wasting his precious time being forced to learn non life functional things that don't interest him.

Education should not be an institution!

If education is so over-rated, why is it that the rich, super rich, and wealthy make sure their kids get all the education they can possibly afford?

There's something to be said for keeping the rich comfortable, smart, in control of their futures, and keeping the poor under-educated and struggling. It happens in almost all countries, and it's no way for societies to advance.

asimov.jpg

Let me rephrase my statement, Institutional education is over-rated in my view. Knowing that most billionaires never finished high school let alone tertiary education but then again being successful in my eyes doesn't equate to being rich but more so being happy.

It seems so many people feel that educating their kids to the point of over educating will lead to their child being successful and happy something the parents failed to reach in their eyes.

All were doing is teaching our kids to be like us at the end of the day but I do hear your point MrBrad.

[khunPer]

Thai schools have often been debated. It seems like there are, presumably huge, differences between the various areas, and also between many English Program Schools.

I have a luk keung daughter, almost 10 years old now, beginning in Primary 4 next month, after the school holiday. Before Primary she attended 3 year in Kindergarten classes same place, which seemed like an excellent school preparation. Moving to my Northern European home country was not really an option, as I gave everything up for my move to here, and my girlfriend seems to prefer Thailand for permanent residency, even she was very happy staying in European for 3 summers; don’t think she will fancy cold winters.

Compared to my Scandinavian home country I find the English Program school we choose in Thailand very good – to be honest, I find it a lot better – and my daughter is also very happy, which is the most important.

Compared to Europe, and the way it seems like going at the moment, I think the future is equally good here – but different – if not better. The case may be different compared to other countries, like US.

International School was not an option for us, as those expenses would in time eat all my savings, and thereby the financial foundation for a good or just reasonable family life. Instead we found, what seem to be a very good EP school – some says that the benefit of an IS compared to a good EP is limited and not worth the substantial extra fee. I cannot say if it is so, but so far we are happy.

In my sphere motivation is more important than education, and many – really many – of those who had made it well, did not finish their education, or have one at all; and numerous were self taught. Furthermore Asia seems to be an area with lots of possibilities in the future, so learning the culture here combined with good English skills – and maybe some Chinese or... – seems like a good option. And if you are motivated and hard working for career education, studying abroad is a possibility, especially if the child has dual citizenship.

Is my thinking right...?

That I can only say after some 10 more years...

And by the way, I don’t mind if my daughter choose a career as famous movie or pop star...

[greenchair]

My child's future is my child's future.

I don't think education is the most important thing in the world and it is up to the individual child anyway. There are a lot of no-hopers in the west. Maybe even more than in Asia, despite education.

Education is a means to an end and Thais are doing fine in terms of making money. Many salaries in the west are awful and most people i know can't get on the property ladder, nor save for the future (despite their so-called good education).

I want my daughter to be safe, healthy, and happy. It is my job to try to make sure this happens.

She already has more in Thailand (house and land) than she could possibly have where I come from.

So, what about her future? Who knows.

But I ain't gonna revolve her life around education. Frankly, it's overrated, in my opinion.

Happiness is number one. You can't buy it, nor study to attain it.

All people really want, at the end of the day, is a happy life.

That is all a parent should want for their child.

I have met quite a few utopian parents who believe children's happiness is above a well planned future. They do not encourage extra study at home. They do not force extra classes during 3 months holiday. They leave all reading, writing and early math to the lone teacher with 25 kids and 20 subjects to teach.happiness and rosey times. Until about grade 5. Then they bring them to the tutorial schools .wah wah my kid can't read. Wah my kid can't count. The kids of these families hold all the other kids up. They take up a lot of the teachers and other students time with all the help they need. My child is constantly put next to weaker kids to act as a kiddy tutor. Why. Because we worked everyday with our child in basic skills and the other parent let their child learn " the natural way "

All the kids that have worked really hard are held back because of their lazy parents.

[smotherb]

If you want your child to get a good job and have a chance at a good life--unless you have a fortune or a thriving business to leave them—you need to send them to college.

Yeah, I know, I’ll get a dozen yayhoos who claim they have no college and they do fine—but things have changed, it isn’t so easy to get a good job anymore without a degree.

You have also seen the dozens of frugalists who claim they are living well in Thailand on less than B20k/mo. If that is all you want for your kids, let them attend attend school here.

Children who attend Thai public schools, even if they graduate from a Thai university, do not fare well in today’s marketplace. Will they fare better in the future?

Do some research, look at the salaries today’s young adult receives with and without a college degree—plain and simple, there is a vast difference in income between the two. You have to realize, there is no more domestic industry, every business everywhere has international aspects. Competition is rampant, each and every worker is competing with other workers all over the world.

You don’t have to be a fortune teller to see the chances of a good job are better if you have a degree from a Western-accredited college. Even if you don’t have a degree, your chances at a better job increase if you have a Western education and experience.

To keep good jobs in the future, you will have to continually improve your education, knowledge, and skill-sets. If you don’t, you will be replaced by someone who does.

If you do a job which requires only a few weeks or a few months training; you can be replaced by anyone with a few months experience.

Similarly, if your job can be proceduralized; you know, written down step by step. You can be replaced by anyone who can read.

In both cases, those who will replace you will do it for less money.

Unless you can afford the costly international schools, I recommend you send them back to your home country for education when your child reaches middle school age—12-14. Sure, go with them if you can. That way they stand a much better chance of being prepared and getting into a good college in your home country.

[richard_smith237]

Costs are approx 60,000 baht per term for 3 days per week.

Good god!

My son's nursery school is 1,800bht/term 5 days a week.

(He's 3, Amphur doesn't take them younger)

I too was surprised by this expense... I'm well prepared to swallow these costs, however, my preference would always be not to waste money as a potentially paranoid parent worrying that my son may miss out.

I'm well aware of this potential weakness, as I'm sure many of the well organised, well prepared and professional kindergarten / infant Schools (and their owners) are.

It is however, difficult, where my sons education is concerned I'm not willing to learn from my mistakes when attempting to cut financial corners.

In the UK we don't really have much choice - its either the local school or travel to a private school. Here in Bangkok, the choice is forced upon us. Without applying unnecessary pressure on our child I believe it to be essential that my son learns a critical thought process through the freedom of intelligent and fun education and positive motivation rather than forced rote learning - of course, parents also play an essential role.

I only have one chance at ensuring my Son receives a sufficient early education. It is threads such as this that may provide invaluable information to parents at a similar stage to myself who are at the early stages of thinking about, planning and preparing for the near future welfare of their child.

Much of this early education may not matter too much. I do believe at some point his natural behaviour, ethics, motivation and attitude will help him more than his early pre-school and and kindergarten / infant education.

I also recognise I'm not a perfect parent, I can't meet my son's every educational need. As a professional in my field, I respect that professionals in the field of infant / child education know what they are doing. Experience has taught me that I don't know what I don't know, I have to defer to the experience of the professionals, I have to pay for this quality while ensuring sufficient transparency to feel relaxed in my choices.

To briefly summarise: I don't want to pay what appears to be a daft amount, but I will if I have to. In the mean time I'll pay attention to this thread, talk with friends and research our options widely so that I may make an informed choice.

I'm at the start of this ride [child education] - I want the best, but ultimately my son's happiness is paramount.

------

Slightly off topic:

Some have made the point that there are incredibly wealthy people out there who don't have a great education (or even University), yet they were successful. I see this as a highly flawed argument - while I can't offer statistics I'm quite sure that for those few who reached the top, there exists a multitude of struggling people who had no backup plan.

A good education is somewhat of a 'no-brainer'.... those identifying that it may not be necessary have either been lucky or have perhaps lacked the foundation many of us hope our children receive.

[benalibina]

[thehelmsman]

At about 4 yrs old our 3 yr old girl will start St. Josephs. In our area that's as good as it gets. By age 7 I hope to stop working, stay home full time and move south to find an affordable school with a decent english program. I see college as a necessity in todays world, sort of like my obligation as a father to provide the best I can. But in the end happiness is what we are all after.

[jonnyscot]

I dont fully agree with one poster who mentioned providing extra classes and such keeps the kids ahead of the game, suggesting a one size fits all scenario, in our experience we dont send our kids to extra classes but do monitor their progress, from what i see they do fine without the requirement for extra classes, the class has a program to follow and as long as our kids are in the top say 5% of class then we are happy, id certainly agree that if the kids are struggling then the option is there for extra classes

[Happy Grumpy]

At about 4 yrs old our 3 yr old girl will start St. Josephs. In our area that's as good as it gets. By age 7 I hope to stop working, stay home full time and move south to find an affordable school with a decent english program.

Best to forget the EP (And Thai school altogether) and look at them studying Western courses and sitting Western Exams in places such as aims.co.th Western education, International qualifications, affordable price and the horror that is the Thai school regime is gone.

They will qualify for Thai Uni at the age of 15, while their EP counterparts don't until 18 (of course then they go on to study their IB, before Uni).

Good luck.

[utkb]

For me this is a very difficult question. Some of the factors that influence my thinking

1) Where will my children maximize their creative potential. Here I am strongly influenced my educators like Sir Ken Robinson

http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity?language=en

2) Where will my children be academically challenged by their peers

I recall having a very easy time my first year at a Jr college, where I had great teachers but average classmates. When I changed to major University and had equally great teachers, but strong classmates - thats when the real learning begins.

3) Where will my children experience an environment that does not squash risk-taking but embraces it. One where taking a risk and failing, does not label one a failure for the rest of their lives.

Here I think Western culture has strong advantage over Eastern culture. I know this is may be controversial but it has been my experience that when someone takes a chance but fails in the East, they are branded and given limited opportunities in the future. Whereas in the West they are not branded for life so easily.

I think this last point is the key differentiator when talking about super wealthy that have limited education. I believe the most likely reason is they came from an environment that did not stigmatize risk taking, and as such were able to take multiple risks (and failures) before finding the path to their fortunes.

So for me, I tend to think the best options for my kids will be a Western education/environment that will open more options for them in the future.

[MaeJoMTB]

My child is constantly put next to weaker kids to act as a kiddy tutor.

That's actually really good for your child.

Helps develop social and teaching skills, and improves your child's understanding of the subject.

You never fully understand something until you have to teach someone else.

[MaeJoMTB]

If you want your child to get a good job and have a chance at a good life--unless you have a fortune or a thriving business to leave them—you need to send them to college.

Yeah, I know, I’ll get a dozen yayhoos who claim they have no college and they do fine—but things have changed, it isn’t so easy to get a good job anymore without a degree.

Very few high earners took the traditional education route.

But if you are talking mediocre middle class job, and mediocre middle class life, then you're right.

To be a high earner, you need family money, family connections, right school, right fraternity, etc.

(That isn't including the few true entrepreneurs who make money with no education or special training)

If you aren't already in that group, it's unlikely your children will be allowed to join.