What if a landlord wants to sell their property while Im renting it?

[davejonesbkk]

Im curious to know what usually happens when a property is for sale but rented to someone (lets say on a 12 month contract) and then a buyer comes along and wants to buy the property asap and the owner is very keen to sell? If I wish can I insist that I continue to rent the property for the full duration of the contract?

thanks

[Don Mega]

What does the termination clause in your contract state ?

[davejonesbkk]

I dont have one, this is theoretical right now, Im looking at moving to a house at the moment but I know that the owner has it on the market for sale as well as rent so Id like to know what I should do and the law is before I sign a contract.

[NanLaew]

I have a pretty strong feeling that the sale of the property won't be specifically mentioned in the rental agreement. If the OP really wants it in writing, he can suggest this. However, it is up to the owner if he wants to do this since there's no legal requirement for the home sale scenario to be referenced specifically.

I have heard of the scenario (not in Thailand) where an acrimonious landlord-tenant relationship led to the tenant being asked to vacate ASAP as the house "had been sold." Legal advice was sought but rather than persist in a bad deal, the tenant vacated. However, they did hold the landlord to the full, written, agreed and binding terms of notice to vacate as rental agreements there are grounded in legalese.

I all reality, anyone wanting the house 'right now' is unlikely and I think the period of notice to vacate by either party is already included in the rental agreement, ie. typically 30-days notice from either party. Ideally, this must be given prior to the nearest monthly rental due date. Basically means >30 days notice. A tenant can give notice of moving or, be given notice to vacate if there's less than 30-days to the next rental due date. However, if the tenant insists, then security bonds and the like may be forfeited. If the Landlord insists, then hopefully there's recourse for the tenant via having the terms stated in the rental contract and a word with either a lawyer or the police.

I don't think there is any legal way a tenant can stall a sale of the rental home just because they like the property.

[davejonesbkk]

I have a pretty strong feeling that the sale of the property won't be specifically mentioned in the rental agreement. If the OP really wants it in writing, he can suggest this. However, it is up to the owner if he wants to do this since there's no legal requirement for the home sale scenario to be referenced specifically.

I have heard of the scenario (not in Thailand) where an acrimonious landlord-tenant relationship led to the tenant being asked to vacate ASAP as the house "had been sold." Legal advice was sought but rather than persist in a bad deal, the tenant vacated. However, they did hold the landlord to the full, written, agreed and binding terms of notice to vacate as rental agreements there are grounded in legalese.

I all reality, anyone wanting the house 'right now' is unlikely and I think the period of notice to vacate by either party is already included in the rental agreement, ie. typically 30-days notice from either party. Ideally, this must be given prior to the nearest monthly rental due date. Basically means >30 days notice. A tenant can give notice of moving or, be given notice to vacate if there's less than 30-days to the next rental due date. However, if the tenant insists, then security bonds and the like may be forfeited. If the Landlord insists, then hopefully there's recourse for the tenant via having the terms stated in the rental contract and a word with either a lawyer or the police.

I don't think there is any legal way a tenant can stall a sale of the rental home just because they like the property.

thanks, I had a feeling it might be a bit of a grey area, I certainly wouldnt want to force myself staying there if the landlord wants to sell but 30 days notice to leave would not be acceptable to me at all on the other hand.

[vaultdweller0013]

For reference, my condo rental contract allows for either party to cancel with 2 months notice. If I cancel, I forfeit the deposit; if the landlord cancels, they must refund the entire deposit without any deductions.

Per the law, *theoretically* you are allowed to keep possession of the property for the term of the lease, so long as you fulfill your requirements. However, *practically* you should just ensure there is a termination clause that is agreeable to both parties. It's not worth it to get into a legal battle over it; especially since you would only be looking at a short, 12 month contract.

If you were looking at a longer term lease (2/3+ years). The lease should (must) be registered on the deed, which then protects you from sale or any other transfer of the property (e.g. inherited).

[alfieconn]

For reference, my condo rental contract allows for either party to cancel with 2 months notice. If I cancel, I forfeit the deposit; if the landlord cancels, they must refund the entire deposit without any deductions.

Per the law, *theoretically* you are allowed to keep possession of the property for the term of the lease, so long as you fulfill your requirements. However, *practically* you should just ensure there is a termination clause that is agreeable to both parties. It's not worth it to get into a legal battle over it; especially since you would only be looking at a short, 12 month contract.

If you were looking at a longer term lease (2/3+ years). The lease should (must) be registered on the deed, which then protects you from sale or any other transfer of the property (e.g. inherited).

Should have changed the contract as it is in his favour, should have read if the Landlord cancels he refunds the deposit plus pays you an amount equal to the deposit, he should be penalized for breaking the contract !

Anyway it is all hyperthetical because if the landlord wants you out your be out as soon as he wants and no two months notice is going to stop him !

[vaultdweller0013]

^^alfieconn

Depends on how you look at it -- if I break 1 month in, I'm getting out of paying 9 installments, that is a pretty big benefit. That is the one and only point I care about, not being stuck with 2 rental payments for the better part of a year. More importantly, I am just looking to have the option for a clean break in the case that it doesn't work out for either party -- I'm not looking to benefit if the owner breaks the contract. (And to be honest, as a landlord myself, I feel its reasonable for the tenant to forfeit the deposit as the unit will be vacant for one month at the very least in this case.)

And yes, you are right, the landlord could hire goons and corrupt police to physically throw me out tomorrow and there wouldn't be much I could do about it, but that's not going to happen in this reality, so I am confident that I would have the 2 months per the contract.

[maswov]

The rental contract is essentially part of the property, when the property is sold the contract transfers to the new owner as well. Both parties, the new owner and the renter are legally obligated to honor the contract as written, however it could be terminated or amended if both parties agree.

[alfieconn]

^^alfieconn

Depends on how you look at it -- if I break 1 month in, I'm getting out of paying 9 installments, that is a pretty big benefit. That is the one and only point I care about, not being stuck with 2 rental payments for the better part of a year. More importantly, I am just looking to have the option for a clean break in the case that it doesn't work out for either party -- I'm not looking to benefit if the owner breaks the contract. (And to be honest, as a landlord myself, I feel its reasonable for the tenant to forfeit the deposit as the unit will be vacant for one month at the very least in this case.)

And yes, you are right, the landlord could hire goons and corrupt police to physically throw me out tomorrow and there wouldn't be much I could do about it, but that's not going to happen in this reality, so I am confident that I would have the 2 months per the contract.

All i'm saying is, that a contract should be the same for both parties, you break the contract you get penalised financially, if he breaks the contract he should get penalised financially, if you your not looking to benefit, then fine and thats up to you.

Why will the unit be vacant for 1 month at the very least ? if your giving him 2 months notice then he has 2 months to find new tenants to take your place when you move out !

[alfieconn]

Now remembering that this is Thailand do you think that you having a contract will stop a landlord from selling the property if wants too ? not in a million years, might sound a bit cynical but thats the way it is i'm afraid !

[technologybytes]

Get real.. this is Thailand. If the owner sells then the contract becomes null and void, because your contract is with the previous owner.

In thailand the contract does not specifically give you any rights at all, it would assist you if you take the owner to court.. which you won't do because it's too slow and expensive to be worth the trouble.

Bottom line is simple, if the owner sells and the new owner wants you out, then you are out of luck.

[Moonlover]

The rental contract is essentially part of the property, when the property is sold the contract transfers to the new owner as well. Both parties, the new owner and the renter are legally obligated to honor the contract as written, however it could be terminated or amended if both parties agree.

This has actually happened twice to my neighbour. They've been renting the house for 16 years now and on each sale the rental contract, including the rent payable, has been honoured.

[wvavin]

The rental contract is essentially part of the property, when the property is sold the contract transfers to the new owner as well. Both parties, the new owner and the renter are legally obligated to honor the contract as written, however it could be terminated or amended if both parties agree.

You don't make contract with any properties but the owner. My suggestion is to start looking for another roof instead of caught off handed!

[PJ33]

The house we rent has a clause in the rental contract to say that if the owner wants to sell the house before the end of the rental agreement, they can give 2 months notice.

If your owner is also interested in selling the property, you can probably expect a similarly wording clause in your rental agreement.

We've been in nearly a year now and not a single person has even been to look around the place. I think it's quite a standard clause to have in a rental agreement, in case the owner needs to sell fast. They don't want a stubborn tenant putting legal problems in the way.

Fair enough!!

Pay your rent on time / early, take good care of the place, cause no problems - you'll be there as long as you want.

[how241]

It's all up to what is in your contract.

[stgrhe]

To be on the safe side the contract should be registered at the land office, something that is compusory if the hire is for more than three years. However, even a shorter hire can be registered and in such a case the new owner must honour the hire agreement.

N.B. The English translation of the law does not mention 'lease' but 'hire' so use hire, with reference to the applicable paragraph in The Civil and Commercial Code.

[questionsreplies]

There is the law, the contract, and the thai owner who will teach uou life, so you just leave or face hell daily life...

[questionsreplies]

Congratulation, You are the only one here who knows what he is talking about.

My tenants always leave quickly because they dont want to lose their deposit, or have cops and immigration officers asking them yoo many questions when ringing them too often...

Get real.. this is Thailand. If the owner sells then the contract becomes null and void, because your contract is with the previous owner.

In thailand the contract does not specifically give you any rights at all, it would assist you if you take the owner to court.. which you won't do because it's too slow and expensive to be worth the trouble.

Bottom line is simple, if the owner sells and the new owner wants you out, then you are out of luck.

[ggt]

Had a similar situation to yourself...I paid 6 months rent in advance...the house was sold after 3 months...met the new owner and stayed in the rental the remaining 3 months...gave me plenty of time to find another place...never could get my deposit back thou...it will be coming next week...trust me...

[muffy]

^{I was living in an apartment for years and got along very well with the owners , they asked me to move soon since they sold it . I said next week soon enough , was ready for a change .}

[dotpoom]

For reference, my condo rental contract allows for either party to cancel with 2 months notice. If I cancel, I forfeit the deposit; if the landlord cancels, they must refund the entire deposit without any deductions.

Per the law, *theoretically* you are allowed to keep possession of the property for the term of the lease, so long as you fulfill your requirements. However, *practically* you should just ensure there is a termination clause that is agreeable to both parties. It's not worth it to get into a legal battle over it; especially since you would only be looking at a short, 12 month contract.

If you were looking at a longer term lease (2/3+ years). The lease should (must) be registered on the deed, which then protects you from sale or any other transfer of the property (e.g. inherited).

Just thinking ...the landlord is on a bit of a win win situation there (first paragraph) he forfeits nothing...he normally would have to return the full deposit anyway, not talking about damages etc.,

[vaultdweller0013]

Turn it around and ask what I would lose if the landlord cancelled... nothing really. Yes, I would have the hassle and cost of moving... but I would have that anyway at the end of the lease since the landlord wouldn't be renewing. And its not like its hard to find condos to rent in Bangkok, so its not a huge burden. So there's really no point of insisting on penalizing the landlord unless you just like annoying people for fun or want to insist on "making a point."

[Torrens54]

We had an interesting situation some years ago with a house we bought from a Bank.

We were interested in two houses, side by side which had been repossessed by the bank. No one from the bank was interested in taking us to see the properties and when we arrived, we discovered the Bankrupt ...former owner was living in one, around which he'd created a Junk Yard, presumably to deter any prospective buyers. (The Bank for whatever reason was still letting him live there.)

What the Bank didn't know, was he was also RENTING out the second house. The Tenants had no idea the place had been repossessed and had simply been paying the Bankrupt former owner the rent every month.

We decided to buy the Tenanted house, we gave the tenants plenty of time to move out and all went well. Don't think the former owner was too happy and I don't know if the Bank went after him for the "Rent" he'd been getting from the Bank Owned Property. We offered to buy the other house but the Bank had trouble getting the former owner/ squatter out so we lost interest although the bank eventually got him to move and someone else bought the house, renovated it and will no doubt make a decent profit out of it.

[NanLaew]

Get real.. this is Thailand. If the owner sells then the contract becomes null and void, because your contract is with the previous owner.

In thailand the contract does not specifically give you any rights at all, it would assist you if you take the owner to court.. which you won't do because it's too slow and expensive to be worth the trouble.

Bottom line is simple, if the owner sells and the new owner wants you out, then you are out of luck.

Congratulation, You are the only one here who knows what he is talking about.

My tenants always leave quickly because they dont want to lose their deposit, or have cops and immigration officers asking them yoo many questions when ringing them too often...

Have you sold any of your rental properties while they have been occupied by a standing tenant?

[alfieconn]

^^alfieconn

Depends on how you look at it -- if I break 1 month in, I'm getting out of paying 9 installments, that is a pretty big benefit. That is the one and only point I care about, not being stuck with 2 rental payments for the better part of a year. More importantly, I am just looking to have the option for a clean break in the case that it doesn't work out for either party -- I'm not looking to benefit if the owner breaks the contract. (And to be honest, as a landlord myself, I feel its reasonable for the tenant to forfeit the deposit as the unit will be vacant for one month at the very least in this case.)

And yes, you are right, the landlord could hire goons and corrupt police to physically throw me out tomorrow and there wouldn't be much I could do about it, but that's not going to happen in this reality, so I am confident that I would have the 2 months per the contract.

All i'm saying is, that a contract should be the same for both parties, you break the contract you get penalised financially, if he breaks the contract he should get penalised financially, if you your not looking to benefit, then fine and thats up to you.

Why will the unit be vacant for 1 month at the very least ? if your giving him 2 months notice then he has 2 months to find new tenants to take your place when you move out !

You havn't answered my question !!!!

[maswov]

Get real.. this is Thailand. If the owner sells then the contract becomes null and void, because your contract is with the previous owner.

In thailand the contract does not specifically give you any rights at all, it would assist you if you take the owner to court.. which you won't do because it's too slow and expensive to be worth the trouble.

Bottom line is simple, if the owner sells and the new owner wants you out, then you are out of luck.

Obviously you have no idea how the law works. Yes Thailand has laws too. Pick up a book and read sometime before you blow smoke out of your ass.

[maswov]

Had a similar situation to yourself...I paid 6 months rent in advance...the house was sold after 3 months...met the new owner and stayed in the rental the remaining 3 months...gave me plenty of time to find another place...never could get my deposit back thou...it will be coming next week...trust me...

The deposit is supposed to be transferred to to new owner of the property as well. Regardless of being a new owner or the original owner, if they are Thai it is difficult to get the deposit back in any situation, they believe the funds belong to them.

[NickJ]

What if.....I love this game.......lets all play and waste time.......What if I owned an apt and I was Thai and sone farang tried to prevent me doing what I want to with my property?

Hmm?.....

[hhgz]

This very question was asked, and answered, in the "Ask the Lawyer" forum.