UN: Israeli military killed 44 Palestinians at UN shelters

[Linky]

It doesn't really matter what you would like to imagine. The US is not going to reject Israel any time soon and no major countries are going to attack it - they already have beaten numerous Arab armies a number of times - so the wishful thinking on your part remains nothing but a hateful, unrealistic dream.

The US wont reject Israel soon. But soon The US will be the only country not to reject Israel and soon after they too will see the light and Israel will be a pariah.

Your crystal ball is set on delusional. Nothing but wishful thinking.

You cannot dispute the facts.

[Jingthing]

Don't forget Canada!

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/canada-israels-best-friend/

Keep in mind that many countries that have "recognized" "Palestine" whatever that is considering Hamas/Gaza but are still quite friendly indeed with Israel and no reason that they won't continue to be so. Example of an important one: INDIA

Edited April 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

No not quite, if Australians agreed with Israel they wouldnt have had to pass the law.

I guess Australians favor robbery, rape and murder, since they had to pass laws against them.

[BKKBobby]

Don't forget Canada!

Its all fake.

Israelis are not popular anywhere.

Edited April 29, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Ulysses G.]

You cannot dispute the facts.

You never post any facts and you never provide any evidence of the silly conspiracy theories that you do post.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Don't forget Canada!

Its all fake.

Israelis are not popular anywhere.

Irrational hatred does not make lies true. In 86 Gallup polls, going back to 1967, Israel has had the support of an average of 47% of the American people compared to 12% for the Arab states/Palestinians. Overall, support for Israel has been on the upswing since 1967.

[BKKBobby]

Don't forget Canada!

Its all fake.

Israelis are not popular anywhere.

Irrational hatred does not make lies true. In 86 Gallup polls, going back to 1967, Israel has had the support of an average of 47% of the American people compared to 12% for the Arab states/Palestinians. Overall, support for Israel has been on the upswing since 1967.

I discounted USA when i made my statement. Israel has US support, I know. So what. Azerbaidjan also have US support I talked about the WORLD as a whole: Europe, Africa, ME, West and central Asia. Im not so sure about the central and south Americans (dis)affection for Israel though.

Americans dont represent the world community.

East Asians are not that overly interested in what goes on in the world of international politics except the Chinese.

Edited April 29, 2015 by BKKBobby

[DeaconJohn]

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If Israel commits systematic genocide they would become a pariah state, and YES they would not get away with it, jews are not sacred. It would go to the humans rights court. Israel has no friends. Only US and some countries of no international importance is included in their list of friends.

You claim Iran is a doomsday cult that seeks armaggedon, but Azerbaijan shows that a country with the same and equal branch of Islam can become a moderate religious and secular country and one of the good guy dictatorships with a ruling family that loots and owns the country. Its a good friend of USA, dont forget that they got plenty of oil. No need to mention that Azerbaijan was included in Soviet for a long time, the Russians is practicing their strict orthodox Christianity after the fall of Soviet and were also doing it in secret previously.

Now to my point of this post:

On the other hand I think that Israel might consider some armaggadeon style action if the world use force against Israel. The Israelis will do overkill because of their history and in specific because of pre-WII and WWII history.

Point is, I think Israel is willing to do all sorts of un-21st century stuff if the world says "enough" and takes real action against Israel.

If Israels borders and rights of arabs as the Israelis sees them get questioned by western forces. They would might go down the armaggedon route with WMD and other illegal means.

Why do they have this mentality?

Because of not making much resistance while 7 million jews were killed. They are never ever going to show anything that might be seen as weakness.

Im not judging the majority that did no resistance, in that situation they were in, most of us works/acts the same way.

Israel is not a doomsday cult per se. But if they are going to lose then they will make hell on earth and make sure everyone loses unimaginable losses.

You make some excellent points.

Israel is already isolated to a large extent. That can be used to the Palestinians' advantage as they become members of international organizations that offer them an alternative to armed resistance against Israeli aggression.

Economic, academic, and cultural boycotts by civilized countries are the way forward to stop the mindless cycle of violence on both sides.

...

Economic, academic, and cultural boycotts by civilized countries are the way forward to stop the mindless cycle of violence on both sides.

By "civilized" countries? You are suggesting that Israel boycott itself? alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

Israeli peace groups and moderate Jews will work to bring about the needed changes in co-operation with international organizations.

The Zionist dream of Eretz Israel is not going to become a reality.

[willyumiii]

It is way past time the U.S. and others back off and stop supporting the Israelis.

Let them stand on their own and see how long they get away with this crap.

Not long I bet!

[Jingthing]

Israeli peace groups and moderate Jews will work to bring about the needed changes in co-operation with international organizations.

The Zionist dream of Eretz Israel is not going to become a reality.

Be careful with your rhetoric. Some Zionists dream that. Most Zionists don't. The way you worded that some ignorant people might take that ALL Zionists favor that. This matters because Israeli demonizers use every trick in the book to make Zionism a dirty word and it is anything but -- at its core it is merely the political movement for self determination pf the Jewish people.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[BKKBobby]

Israeli peace groups and moderate Jews will work to bring about the needed changes in co-operation with international organizations.

The Zionist dream of Eretz Israel is not going to become a reality.

Be careful with your rhetoric. Some Zionists dream that. Most Zionists don't. The way you worded that some ignorant people might take that ALL Zionists favor that. This matters because Israeli demonizers use every trick in the book to make Zionism a dirty word and it is anything but -- at its core it is merely the political movement for self determination pf the Jewish people.

This is the second time one on the pro-Israeli side of the forum has told someone to "be careful" in the last 24h hmmmm....

[DeaconJohn]

Israeli peace groups and moderate Jews will work to bring about the needed changes in co-operation with international organizations.

The Zionist dream of Eretz Israel is not going to become a reality.

Be careful with your rhetoric. Some Zionists dream that. Most Zionists don't. The way you worded that some ignorant people might take that ALL Zionists favor that. This matters because Israeli demonizers use every trick in the book to make Zionism a dirty word and it is anything but -- at its core it is merely the political movement for self determination pf the Jewish people.

Self-determination and Eretz Israel go togerther like a horse and carriage.

Incidentally, would you please stop editing my posts. Isn't there a forum rule against that? If not, there should be.

[BKKBobby]

Israeli peace groups and moderate Jews will work to bring about the needed changes in co-operation with international organizations.

The Zionist dream of Eretz Israel is not going to become a reality.

Be careful with your rhetoric. Some Zionists dream that. Most Zionists don't. The way you worded that some ignorant people might take that ALL Zionists favor that. This matters because Israeli demonizers use every trick in the book to make Zionism a dirty word and it is anything but -- at its core it is merely the political movement for self determination pf the Jewish people.

Self-determination and Eretz Israel go togerther like a horse and carriage.

Incidentally, would you please stop editing my posts. Isn't there a forum rule against that? If not, there should be.

He will give you a perfect answer to prove to you that he has the right to remove parts that removes focus from what he highlights and what he at the same time wants to be discounted.

Its their MO

[Linky]

No not quite, if Australians agreed with Israel they wouldnt have had to pass the law.

I guess Australians favor robbery, rape and murder, since they had to pass laws against them.

Those are criminal law. In case you hadnt noticed because of your blinkers.

those laws have always been in place, Australians didnt bring them into law. ?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Linky

[Thorgal]

[Ulysses G.]

Don't forget Canada!

Its all fake.

Israelis are not popular anywhere.

Irrational hatred does not make lies true. In 86 Gallup polls, going back to 1967, Israel has had the support of an average of 47% of the American people compared to 12% for the Arab states/Palestinians. Overall, support for Israel has been on the upswing since 1967.

I discounted USA when i made my statement.

Then you should not use the term "anywhere". It makes your claim 100% incorrect and the USA is probably the most powerful nation on Earth, so a very foolish statement.

[Ulysses G.]

those laws have always been in place, Australians didnt bring them into law.

If they are Australian laws, it pretty safe to assume that Australians passed them at some point. "Zionist" hater types are not so swift when it comes to facts or logic.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[BKKBobby]

Don't forget Canada!

Its all fake.

Israelis are not popular anywhere.

Irrational hatred does not make lies true. In 86 Gallup polls, going back to 1967, Israel has had the support of an average of 47% of the American people compared to 12% for the Arab states/Palestinians. Overall, support for Israel has been on the upswing since 1967.

I discounted USA when i made my statement.

Then you should not use the term "anywhere". It makes your claim 100% incorrect and the USA is probably the most powerful nation on Earth, so a very foolish statement.

Anywhere is a figure of speech.

[Jingthing]

Israeli peace groups and moderate Jews will work to bring about the needed changes in co-operation with international organizations.

The Zionist dream of Eretz Israel is not going to become a reality.

Be careful with your rhetoric. Some Zionists dream that. Most Zionists don't. The way you worded that some ignorant people might take that ALL Zionists favor that. This matters because Israeli demonizers use every trick in the book to make Zionism a dirty word and it is anything but -- at its core it is merely the political movement for self determination pf the Jewish people.

Self-determination and Eretz Israel go togerther like a horse and carriage.

Incidentally, would you please stop editing my posts. Isn't there a forum rule against that? If not, there should be.

The existence of Israel as a Jewish state (or a majority Jewish character and demographic if you like) is self determination. You're talking about extreme expansionist border issues favored by a far right wing minority. Separate issues.

There are many, many kinds of people who identify with Zionism and supporting the right of Israel to exist and defend itself against it's many vicious enemies.

Including left wing Zionists.

I did not edit your last post. I snipped off previous items in order to allow ANY response.

BTW ... editing posts in the form of SNIPPETS is fully allowed on this forum except in cases of editing done to blatantly DISTORT the meaning of the post.

So in future kindly direct your complaints somewhere else, as hopefully you now do understand what you didn't before about post editing on this forum.

If you do feel you have a LEGIT complaint about intentional meaning distortion, what you do is use the REPORT button, not whine about in the public forum (even worse when you're wrong).

Edited April 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

A good example of a legit, non hateful, non racist political cartoon about this conflict.

Of course it's biased against Israel. That's their message.

Nothing about the faults of Hamas against their own people and Israel.

But Israel does stand accused, that is true, and Israel does have strong weapons.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[wabothai]

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The Israeli government, and people who support it, are war criminals. No doubt about and Western media is complicit in shielding them.

People who support Hamas right to use their community's children as shields, who support Hamas total disregard for their community's safety by locating themselves purposely in civilian areas are war criminals. No doubt about (it) and Western media (BBC at least) is complicit in shielding them.

Their is no intentional use of human shields. The claim is just a way of demonizing the enemy since its inhumane to use human shields and in this case its even supposed to be their fellow Palestinians that are used.

Its the same thing when people try to demonize Israeli jews by accusing them of harvesting the internal organs of killed Arabs.

The human shields claims are based on nothing, its pure propaganda. Its used as an excuse that is fed to the Israeli jews and the US public as an excuse for collateral damage and deaths of a high amount of innocents during bombings.

Gaza is overpopulated, its a open-air prison. Theres no place for hiding rockets and for hiding places used to launch the rockets. Its a tiny densely populated strip of land.

It is a proven fact with numerous statements by Hamas leaders and plenty of video evidence.

Please stop with stupidity.

Being over populated is not an excuse to attack another nation.

Most if not all military worldwide does everything to protect its citizens not to put them in harms way.

You guys argumentation is extremely poor and lacks use of brains.

Yep you bullies have every right to defend yourself against a bunch of very angry, discriminated, poor, frustrated defenseless folks with sling shots.

I feel sorry for them, and not one moment for you warmongers. Yep you do anything to.........even murder the defenseless.

Gerany broke down its wall, you guys built one. Sick !!!!!!!!

[Ulysses G.]

Gerany broke down its wall, you guys built one.

Israel built a wall to stop the Palestinian terrorist attacks and it WORKS which is why it bothers the Jew-haters.

From 2000 to 2005, hundreds of Palestinian suicide bombings and terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians killed more nearly 1,000 innocent people and wounded thousands of others. Since construction of the fence began, the number of attacks has declined by more than 90%. The number of Israelis murdered and wounded has decreased by more than and 85%. As usual, the Palestinians are responsible for their own misery.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Thorgal]

Israel built a wall to stop the Palestinian terrorist attacks and it WORKS which is why it bothers the Jew-haters.

From 2000 to 2005, hundreds of Palestinian suicide bombings and terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians killed more nearly 1,000 innocent people and wounded thousands of others. Since construction of the fence began, the number of attacks has declined by more than 90%. The number of Israelis murdered and wounded has decreased by more than and 85%. As usual, the Palestinians are responsible for their own misery.

So, Palestinians are responsible for their own misery...even if they are killed in UN shelters by IDF shelling...?

[Ulysses G.]

Gazans elected terrorists to govern them and got what pretty much anyone would expect. More terrorist attacks on civilians. As soon as Hamas stopped shooting rockets into Israel, the reprisal shelling stopped.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[TooPoopedToPop]

Gazans elected terrorists to govern them and got what pretty much anyone would expect. More terrorist attacks on civilians. As soon as Hamas stopped shooting rockets into Israel, the reprisal shelling stopped.

Good news.

Now that the shelling has stopped, will Israel end the land-grabs and expulsions?

[Jingthing]

Gazans elected terrorists to govern them and got what pretty much anyone would expect. More terrorist attacks on civilians. As soon as Hamas stopped shooting rockets into Israel, the reprisal shelling stopped.

Good news.

Now that the shelling has stopped, will Israel end the land-grabs and expulsions?

Hamas is now actively re-arming big time, so no, this ain't over. How could it be as long as Hamas is in power in Gaza?

I was quite surprised to read that Israel, being sick of this endless cycle, is considering taking over Gaza next time if/when Hamas attacks. I don't know if that will really happen, but again, the conflict continues. This would represent a radical change in Gaza policy.

Assessing that Hamas will continue to rule the Gaza Strip for the foreseeable future, the IDF is training for the possible reconquering of the entire coastal Palestinian territory in a future confrontation with the Islamic organization, the Times of Israel has learned.

Despite the harsh blow Hamas and Islamic Jihad sustained in Operation Protective Edge last July and August, Israel’s military command is convinced that another round of fighting between Israel and Gaza is only a matter of time.

The Israeli leadership sees no prospect of the Palestinian Authority gaining control of the Strip, as it continues to demand, and would prefer to face a weakened Hamas than the anarchy of unruly organizations, some of which harbor extremist Islamist ideologies.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-training-to-retake-gaza-in-possible-future-round-with-hamas/

No, I don't think Israel really WANTS to take control of Gaza. They need that like a hole in the head. But I suppose there is an argument that taking control and ending Hamas control may in the long run be the best of a bunch of very bad choices.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Jingthing

[TooPoopedToPop]

Gazans elected terrorists to govern them and got what pretty much anyone would expect. More terrorist attacks on civilians. As soon as Hamas stopped shooting rockets into Israel, the reprisal shelling stopped.

Good news.

Now that the shelling has stopped, will Israel end the land-grabs and expulsions?

Hamas is now actively re-arming big time, so no, this ain't over. How could it be as long as Hamas is in power in Gaza?

I was quite surprised to read that Israel, being sick of this endless cycle, is considering taking over Gaza next time if/when Hamas attacks. I don't know if that will really happen, but again, the conflict continues. This would represent a radical change in Gaza policy.

Assessing that Hamas will continue to rule the Gaza Strip for the foreseeable future, the IDF is training for the possible reconquering of the entire coastal Palestinian territory in a future confrontation with the Islamic organization, the Times of Israel has learned.

Despite the harsh blow Hamas and Islamic Jihad sustained in Operation Protective Edge last July and August, Israel’s military command is convinced that another round of fighting between Israel and Gaza is only a matter of time.

The Israeli leadership sees no prospect of the Palestinian Authority gaining control of the Strip, as it continues to demand, and would prefer to face a weakened Hamas than the anarchy of unruly organizations, some of which harbor extremist Islamist ideologies.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-training-to-retake-gaza-in-possible-future-round-with-hamas/

No, I don't think Israel really WANTS to take control of Gaza. They need that like a hole in the head. But I suppose there is an argument that taking control and ending Hamas control may in the long run be the best of a bunch of very bad choices.

It looks like the writing is on the wall and a Zionist victory is foreseeable.

But tell me, what do you think they will do with all the Palestinians in the territories they occupy?

[Jingthing]

It looks like the writing is on the wall and a Zionist victory is foreseeable.

But tell me, what do you think they will do with all the Palestinians in the territories they occupy?

Ignoring your dodgy rhetoric about Zionist victories, I really don't know what Israel would do if they decide the best choice is to take over Gaza. I'm sure they would work to dismantle Hamas rule and to completely DISARM them, but beyond that IF this ever happens, I have no idea what the long term plan would be. Perhaps it would only be a short term thing to deal with Hamas rule. Remember previously Israel did voluntarily completely withdraw from Gaza and there were many sad and ugly scenes of Jewish settlers being forcibly removed by IDF forces.

I don't see how it is in Israeli self interest to be the LONG TERM administrators of the Arabs in Gaza but I can see the self interest in getting rid of Hamas and disarming them and to do that a radical tactic change may indeed be the only way. Another factor ... can Israel even afford the manpower to be a long term administrator of Gaza given Gaza is hardly the only threat to Israel ... so I don't think so.

Needless to say a radical tactic change like taking over Gaza and kicking out Hamas would involve a lot of casualties on both sides, and the usual predictable international objections to Israel doing what they feel they need to do to continue the existence of Israel.

Reading between the lines I suppose you are suggesting that Israel has genocidal intentions on the Arabs in Gaza. That certainly is not the case. The opposite is actually the case, the Hamas rulers have genocidal intentions against Jews. Israel can hardly sit back and ignore that.

(Edit to allow reply.)

Edited April 30, 2015 by Jingthing

[Thorgal]

Gazans elected terrorists to govern them and got what pretty much anyone would expect. More terrorist attacks on civilians. As soon as Hamas stopped shooting rockets into Israel, the reprisal shelling stopped.

UN school shelling has little to do with Hamas ideology.

The shelling of UN schools started on 21st of July till 3rd of August.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israeli_shelling_of_UNRWA_Gaza_shelters

Need to tell that the Golani Brigade lost on 20th of July 13 IDF soldiers in a single day and 56 wounded. This caused panic in Israeli homefront.

Military reprisals of IDF followed immediately on targeting Palestinian civilians by intensive bombing and countless sniping.

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Seven-Golani-soldiers-killed-in-Gaza-363528

At least 100 Palestinian civilians died on the 21st of July.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Shuja%27iyya

Why changing the events if IDF soldiers confirmed the harsh military reprisals ordered from higher officers for the 13 casualities ?

Positions of UN schools were known by IDF Air Force, Artillery and Infantry...

Edited April 30, 2015 by Thorgal

[Jingthing]

Well, I think the details of Israel's recent actions in Gaza are worthy of serious criticism as well as the actions of Hamas in provoking Israel. It is probably very true that the IDF did some really bad and unacceptable things in this recent conflict. Beyond unintentional mistakes in the fog of war ... that's different. But Hamas still wants Israel to not exist at all. There has got to be balance and perspective in considering these issues.

I could be wrong but the way I see it, Israel sometimes goes overboard in these kinds of military actions to minimize Israeli casualties. Any side in any war justifiably wants to reduce their own side's casualties. The moral/ethical/legal issues come into play when you go overboard though. Is killing 100 potential "collateral damage" enemy side people worth saving potentially one Israeli side person? The mother of that person saved may think so, or maybe not. Not easy questions, that's for sure.

No, I am not saying there is any excuse for actual "war crimes" committed by Israel or any country. I do think the world is irrationally focused on accusing Israel of such "war crimes" way out of balance to what is happening in various other countries in different parts of the world, including Israel's neighbors.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Jingthing