Indonesia executes drug convicts, defying global anger

[lujanit]

Drug runners knowingly do what they do, death penalties included when you operate in certain countries. There is another issue here and that is how the Indonesian Government have stage managed this saga. Photos of a prisoner in transfer, coffins being transported to 'death island'. The deliberate action of making the families (members of which are innocent) walk through a media scrum yesterday on their final visit was well orchestrated and only designed for public consumption. It is well known that Indonesia has the death penalty for serious drug offences so why do this?

Surely publicity is not the answer. So what is?

[evadgib]

Now that all is said and done, there are some lessons to be learned here, one is that the Australian government

will not spare any effort to save the sorry ass of convicted crimeless, PM FM and MP's present and past

will beg, grovel, threat, offer money, boycott and prostate themselves all in order to show how liberal

and humane they're, sending the wrong message to would be drug's smugglers that Australia will protect

you in what ever crimes you commit,

Second, hopefully some would be offenders will heed the message of keeping away from such activities,

Last but not least, was it worth it all? I'm sure the last thoughts of the condemn would have been 'what

in god's name am I doing here and how did I get in to this mess in the first place?'........

Gender & race can seemingly play their part elsewhere:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/aug/06/samantha-orobator-pregnant-laos-jail

[dragonfly94]

Do the crime pay the penalty, these peddlers of death and misery have been rightly found guilty and they knew what the penalty would be if caught, they gambled for money and lost. So why all the whining? pity you do not see half as much when all the innocent Christians, gays and even people guilty of dancing are beheaded by the Taliban and Isis, ah but then none of them were Australians were they.

[Chao Lao Beach]

Australia has withdrawn thier ambassador and suspended political ties with indonesia.

What about the $600,000,000 ($600mill) Australia will GIVE to Indonesia this year alone. Put ya money where your mouth is Tony.

He won't. Even if he cared he doesn't have the balls to do that. I'd say most Australians, while not supporting the death penalty, have quite a lot opinion of drug smugglers, especially those bringing in heroin to their country. What he has done is a very minor show of being dissatisfied with the use the the death penalty. These guys knew the consequences of their actions. They should have known what could happen if caught.

DavisH, I do actually agree with what you are saying, but with the Gov huffing and puffing and making threats and cutting diplomatic ties, why not have the balls and cut the money. Somthing hard.

[noosard]

Corby smuggled pot into Indonesia and was caught

Orginally the prosicutor wanted the death penalty for her

She got 20 years less time off

So Indonesia will shoot you for large amounts of pot

So don't do it

Edited April 29, 2015 by noosard

[Fritzz]

The best retaliatory action the Australians could do would be to issue the most stern 'do not travel' warning to Indonesia - the one that voids all travel insurance policies and implement economic sanctions.

I guess that is exactly what the Indonesians are telling the drug dealers from down under: stay where you are and do your business in Tony-land; much better for your health insurers. Unless you don't understand the message "BY PENALTY OF DEATH". Which part of NO is it that is so hard to understand?

Bon voyage

Fritzz

[fritzzz25]

Not sure if this sign was clear enough to them........

Edited April 29, 2015 by fritzzz25

[Beetlejuice]

However the Filipina, Mary Jane Veloso, was spared after someone suspected of recruiting her and tricking her into carrying drugs to Indonesia turned herself in to authorities in the Philippines,

I don`t disagree with the death penalties for drug dealers or could be described as paddlers of poison and death. But the worrying part, suppose the person suspected of conning the Filipina did not come forward, than does that mean an innocent woman would have been put to death?

So how certain is the court that all parties concerned were guilty as charged? It appears to me that these people were guilty until proved innocent.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Australia has withdrawn thier ambassador and suspended political ties with indonesia.

These people knew the laws and consequences, they didn't give a single thought about the lives of others they were destroying. They broke the law and paid for it. The execution of drug dealers is no loss to society, the trash has been taken out.

The best retaliatory action the Australians could do would be to issue the most stern 'do not travel' warning to Indonesia - the one that voids all travel insurance policies and implement economic sanctions.

All but one of those executed were foreigners and probably not of the same religion which suggests some politician sabre rattling to gain a few votes.

This country needs to be punished for its barbaric and medieval ways.

How many Australian drug smugglers actually visit Indonesia? The numbers must be small. If they all never visit Indonesia again would Indo tourist arrivals drop by 100? I dont think Indonesia would even notice. I am not an insurance expert either but i am sure they will decline your claim if you are engaged in something illegal. I think they call it "moral hazard" in the insurance world. No need to punish all Australians because of the actions of a few aussie drug smugglers.

[bdenner]

Australia has withdrawn thier ambassador and suspended political ties with indonesia.

What about the $600,000,000 ($600mill) Australia will GIVE to Indonesia this year alone. Put ya money where your mouth is Tony.

As I stated on another forum:-

Australia really needs to re evaluate their aide package to Indonesia, it's obviously not working!

Australia’s aid program to Indonesia is designed to support prosperity, stability and security in one of our closest neighbours. The program includes a range of investments designed to promote sustainable economic growth, good governance and stability.

http://dfat.gov.au/geo/indonesia/development-assistance/pages/development-assistance-in-indonesia.aspx

[dragonfly94]

So how certain is the court that all parties concerned were guilty as charged? It appears to me that these people were guilty until proved innocent.

Well being caught red handed with over 8 kilos of heroin strapped to their bodies was a bit of a give away, how to explain that one as 'not guilty'?

[chooka]

Killing someone for marijuana is just wrong. It is legal in some countries.

It would be like killing Indonesian Muslims for shisha tobacco in Australia.

I can understand regarding hard additive drugs but Pot ?

You're not really up with the story are you? It wasn't marijuana it was around 8.5 kgs of pure heroin. Chan and Sukumaran were the ringleaders of the Bali Nine. The other seven mules were sentenced to life in prison.

Marijuana will get you around 25yrs in prison in Indonesia.

[bannork]

Killing someone for marijuana is just wrong. It is legal in some countries.

It would be like killing Indonesian Muslims for shisha tobacco in Australia.

I can understand regarding hard additive drugs but Pot ?

You're not really up with the story are you? It wasn't marijuana it was around 8.5 kgs of pure heroin. Chan and Sukumaran were the ringleaders of the Bali Nine. The other seven mules were sentenced to life in prison.

Marijuana will get you around 25yrs in prison in Indonesia.

Chooka, you're the one not up to it here, the Indonesian was executed for having a colleague dump some marijuana in his back yard.

[MrWorldwide]

Killing someone for marijuana is just wrong. It is legal in some countries.

It would be like killing Indonesian Muslims for shisha tobacco in Australia.

I can understand regarding hard additive drugs but Pot ?

You're not really up with the story are you? It wasn't marijuana it was around 8.5 kgs of pure heroin. Chan and Sukumaran were the ringleaders of the Bali Nine. The other seven mules were sentenced to life in prison.

Marijuana will get you around 25yrs in prison in Indonesia.

I guess that doesnt apply if you're considered a 'ring leader', whether they find the drugs or not. Note that his mates are now free men and he's in a cheap coffin - this one reeks of corruption. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/29/bali-nine-who-are-the-nine-people-being-executed-by-indonesia Zainal Abidin

Abidin, 50, an Indonesian, was moved to Nusa Kambangan in preparation for execution despite still having an appeal due to be heard by the courts. He was convicted in 2001 of being the ringleader of a plan to sell marijuana, which he denies.

Two men convicted with Abidin, who he claims were the real masterminds of the ring, have served prison sentences and are now free.

[ggold]

I don't see a problem here. Drugs are a mounting curse and ruining hundreds of thousands of lives and families around the world and could ultimately threaten our own children. They were smugglers purely after monetary gain at the expense of users. They were not innocent. Its not the west with a nice soft sentence and out to do the same again in a few years.

Its not the west with a nice soft sentence and out to do the same again in a few years.

Obviously it was the wrong career choice, had they gone into the business of bombs, like the Bali bomb terrorists they would already be free. It seems Indonesia is tougher on drug mules than they are on Terrorist murderers!

[Beetlejuice]

So how certain is the court that all parties concerned were guilty as charged? It appears to me that these people were guilty until proved innocent.

Well being caught red handed with over 8 kilos of heroin strapped to their bodies was a bit of a give away, how to explain that one as 'not guilty'?

You have quoted only a part of my post that gives an inaccurate account of the point I was making, which contravenes Thai visa rules.

I was referring to the Filipino woman.

[DLock]

Death is just an occupational hazard of being a drug smuggler.

They knew that, and I'm sure they were smirking out of the side of their mouths at all the dumb people trying to defend them until that bullet tore them open.

Whether the death penalty is right or wrong, the laws and warnings were clear and unambiguous on drug smuggling in Indonesia.

In a week this will be forgotten. No harm to Indonesia.

[chooka]

Killing someone for marijuana is just wrong. It is legal in some countries.

It would be like killing Indonesian Muslims for shisha tobacco in Australia.

I can understand regarding hard additive drugs but Pot ?

Most of these people were in possession of heroin. Nothing to do with pot.

perhaps I am mistaken but I thought two were busted smuggling Marijuana. Can anyone confirm for sure ...

Yes for sure - 100% it was 8 pounds of Heroin or so. Nothing to do with pot, you may have your wires crossed with some other story.

Anyhow, Despite the zealous hang em high brigade and all their predictable comments, I don't think these men deserved to die. The war on drugs and all that it entails, and the stories of these lowly drug smugglers and the choices they made are a lot more complex than "Drugs are bad, drug peddling scum deserve to die".

The realisation that the current war on drugs has achieved nothing, except filling up prisons with users and street dealers and lining the pockets of the top tier druglords, is starting to gain traction around the world, but change is slow and altering peoples perceptions is slower. Hopefully one day though this will change.

Not Pounds, Kilograms which is more around 18 pounds.

[chooka]

Death is just an occupational hazard of being a drug smuggler.

They knew that, and I'm sure they were smirking out of the side of their mouths at all the dumb people trying to defend them until that bullet tore them open.

Whether the death penalty is right or wrong, the laws and warnings were clear and unambiguous on drug smuggling in Indonesia.

In a week this will be forgotten. No harm to Indonesia.

This was not Chan and Sukumaran's first run either, apparently they had already completed two (2) trips.

[h90]

Legalise all drugs and the problem will dsappear overnight.

you are egoistic.....Don't you think for all the rich people who finance their living with selling it?

[Linky]

Bill Shorten, Australia's Opposition Leader, and author of several Mills and Boon novels, replied to the executions in the following manner:

".....Yet today, they were made to pay for one stupid decision of 10 years ago with their lives...."

As alleged ring leaders of the Bali Nine, I doubt very much that this incident ten years ago was their first involvement in drug trafficking. I also doubt, had they not been caught, that it would have been their last.

Lots and lots of stupid decisions Mr Shorten?

Almost certainly true, Andrew Chan first tried heroin as a 14 year old and was running with some very bad people. But the fact is after getting caught both he and Myuran had turned their lives around and become useful members of society.I reckon teens already on the wrong path are much more likely to listen to an ex-con telling them to wake up rather than some middle class social worker.

But sadly it was not to be. If it's any consolation to their families it will be in the warm tributes to the two from many who knew them in prison, at least there their lives were not in vain.

You forgot to mention that they had also found God. If I was rotting away on Death Row, I imagine I would be fast-tracking my display of being a useful member of society. It might not help my chances of clemency, but it certainly wouldn't hurt, would it?

But, as you say, at least their lives were not in vain, and others will learn from their mistakes. Martyrdom has arrived for these two.

I think if they were finding God they chose the wrong religion in looking for clemency. If it was for show I would think it better to find Islam.

Also, Chan founded an orphanage a few months ago but refused to make it public.

So I think his actions were for real and not for sympathy.

[chooka]

Killing someone for marijuana is just wrong. It is legal in some countries.

It would be like killing Indonesian Muslims for shisha tobacco in Australia.

I can understand regarding hard additive drugs but Pot ?

You're not really up with the story are you? It wasn't marijuana it was around 8.5 kgs of pure heroin. Chan and Sukumaran were the ringleaders of the Bali Nine. The other seven mules were sentenced to life in prison.

Marijuana will get you around 25yrs in prison in Indonesia.

Chooka, you're the one not up to it here, the Indonesian was executed for having a colleague dump some marijuana in his back yard.

My appologies I thought he was refering to Chan and Sukumaran,

[ABCer]

I would like to add my two (actually more) bits.

1) About time. Can't understand why so slow action.

2) Can't understand why so many countries including mine (Australia) shown so little respect for Indonesia's sovereignty.

3) Can't understand why so many politcorrect SOBs care about lives of few criminals and do not care about thousands of lives of victims of drug use.

4) The saddest thing of all is that the above politcorrect SOBs raise such a noise that the World thinks they are representing the World opinion.

Bravo, Indonesia! Am I the only one?

[judax]

Drug dealers are the cockroaches in this world and are not worth the bullet to kill them. They should be suffocated as they do with their victims, slowly but surely. With 18 000 drug death a year in Indonesia you have to apply draconic measures and they will act as a deterrent. It is high time they introduce these penalties in Thailand as well. Innocent drug mules like the Philippina her life should be spared.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and replies removed.

[JockPieandBeans]

You forgot to mention that they had also found God.

Yes. It is remarkable the amount of people that apparently find '' God '' when they are about to get whacked.

Where was their '' God '' when they were peddling their filthy heroin ?

[simple1]

Australia has withdrawn thier ambassador and suspended political ties with indonesia.

What about the $600,000,000 ($600mill) Australia will GIVE to Indonesia this year alone. Put ya money where your mouth is Tony.

He won't. Even if he cared he doesn't have the balls to do that. I'd say most Australians, while not supporting the death penalty, have quite a lot opinion of drug smugglers, especially those bringing in heroin to their country. What he has done is a very minor show of being dissatisfied with the use the the death penalty. These guys knew the consequences of their actions. They should have known what could happen if caught.

DavisH, I do actually agree with what you are saying, but with the Gov huffing and puffing and making threats and cutting diplomatic ties, why not have the balls and cut the money. Somthing hard.

Foreign aid is often provided by the donor country in its national interest. e.g. in the case of Indonesia, Australia investing in education, a contribution for reducing the potential for radicalisation. There are aid projects from which Australian companies gain. You can bet any unemployment created or reduction in profits by reducing aid will create a lot of noise.

http://theconversation.com/what-do-indonesia-and-australia-expect-and-get-from-aid-37925

The Oz media reporting on the executions is getting rather hysterical, with at least one major newspaper actually publishing obituaries for the two executed.

[Torrens54]

Australia has withdrawn thier ambassador and suspended political ties with indonesia.

These people knew the laws and consequences, they didn't give a single thought about the lives of others they were destroying. They broke the law and paid for it. The execution of drug dealers is no loss to society, the trash has been taken out.

As an Expat Australian who has seen dead kids, who've over dosed on Heroin and interviewed the families of these kids, I have NO SYMPATHY for these two Scum Bags.

It wasn't their first time, they were not just simple "mules" they were the Mule Drivers and they'd done it all before, with their filthy product earning them millions from their victims. The Bleeding Hearts will try to tell us how these two "Reformed"....only after they were caught, only in the hope of saving their own worthless lives.

Just like Barlow and Chambers from Perth in the 1980's who were hanged in Malaysia for the same thing, these two were MONSTERS and their LEGAL Execution means they will NOT be importing more "DEATH" into Australia to be peddled to kids.

Indonesia and any other country that takes this firm stand against Drug Traffickers has my total support.

[evadgib]

In a week this will be forgotten. No harm to Indonesia.

Perhaps not:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/uk-grandmother-lindsay-sandiford-in-final-appeal-for-help-from-indonesias-death-row-10016256.html

[MrWorldwide]

You forgot to mention that they had also found God.

Yes. It is remarkable the amount of people that apparently find '' God '' when they are about to get whacked.

Where was their '' God '' when they were peddling their filthy heroin ?

In roughly the same place as the Indonesian generals and politicians who make money from the drug trade in Indonesia then come out in the media to lament the 'drug menace' threatening their youth. I'm not defending the traffickers - I accept that Indonesia has the right to enforce their own clearly stated position on trafficking - it's the hypocrisy that reeks here, and I would say a lot of that also applies in Thailand. The elite couldnt give a fig about the health and welfare of the common people as long as they are making money, and I dont know any other industry where the profits at the top of the pyramid are so completely out of proportion to the risks for those at the bottom. None of that forced Chan and Sukumaran, both in fulltime employment back in Oz, to decide this was their ticket to easy money but the Veloso case highlights how easy it would be for the syndicates to find vulnerable 'cleanskins' to carry their product. The skeptics will even suggest that many of the couriers are given up to Police by the syndicates in return for allowing even larger shipments through their borders.