Big C Or Tesco Vs. Mom & Pop

[jcgodber]

I live in the province of Sa Kaeo. The province of Sa Kaeo has no shopping centers or Big C, Tesco or any other large store.

In the town of Sa Kaeo all (most) of the merchants have a captive audience. They charge what ever the traffic will bear and have had it their way for as long as I can remember.

Does this sound familiar?

I am driving up the street and see a parking place right in front of where I want to go and shop. Before I can park, someone from that shop runs out and places 2 plastic chairs in the street to prevent me or anyone else from parking there.

I am forced to park far from the shop and have to walk in the street back to where I want to go because all or most of the stores have also placed merchendice out on the sidewalk so much so that it is virtually impossible to walk on the side walk. I am quite sure that the police have been paid to look the other way.

Once inside the shop I have problems navigating down the extremely narrow aisles (less than a meter wide). I am constantly on guard that I might accidentally trip over stock that has not yet been placed on the shelves or worse yet, brush against a precarious display and cause breakage.

I find the product that I want and see that it has no price on it.

The product is out of date and is shop worn from sitting on the shelf for far too long.

There is an association of merchants that constantly fight to keep ANY big store out so as not to change the strangle hold they have on the community.

Now for the FINAL INSULT –

I am holding my purchases in a hand basket and am 4th in line. The owner / cashier spots a friend that wants to check out and allows him to go to the front of the line. I am expected to just wait and let all friends and more favorite customers go first, THEN I am allowed to make my purchase. I would go somewhere else but there is nowhere else to go.

[jackr]

Drop the goods on the floor and move back to civilization.

[bmanly]

There is a thread on this in the news forum but as you mentioned your experiences here I will mention mine. I first came to Thailand 16 years ago. In those days there were very few big superstores and no where near as many 7/11's. I lived around Sathu Pradit Road Bangkok. One day after about 2 Months of being in Thailand I was craving cheese and butter. Do you think I could find any anywhere around that area? No way.

Since those days big superstores have opened. I live in Pattaya now and we have several here, in those old days there were not many. Now I can go to Carrefoure, Big C, Tesco etc. and buy the best fresh produce you can find in Thailand. The small Thai Mom and Pop stores do not cater for my needs. The stores are dimmly lit, clutered, hot and still do not stock what I want. At the markets it's good too but fortunately I can count and when buying seafood or vegetables by the kilo the vendors have tried to rip me off. Example, fish is 100 baht a kilo, I buy the fish weighing .7 kilo, why does she want 130 baht? Should be 70 baht. These kind of rip offs do not occur in the big superstores, the price is clearly labled with barcode and all. It shows when it was packed and when it should be consumed. I buy the bulk of my stuff now at Carrefour and I wouldn't change it for the world and seeing the 100's of Thai people that shop there I would say they prefer it too. I love the big superstores, the service is great and they offer clean and fresh produce both local and from around the world, that is the choices I want.

[dave111223]

Seems to depend what your shopping for, if your looking for rice, bananas etc... you may be better buying from the small shop (especially if its closer). But for items like cheese, bread, etc... big store is the way to go.

I feel bad for the OP that doesnt have the choice.

I'm still surprised by some stuff that you cant seem to find here... like bagels and good beef steaks or minced beef. (I have to go to au bon pain to get bagels and they cost an arm and a leg)

Most of the big supermarkets seem to have good prices, but some of the non-food big stores seem to be a rip off (homepro, central etc..)

[kat]

The protest against big box, multinational stores is not only an issue in Thailand. Communities have protested and debated them in the U.S., and France only allows them in controlled and balanced measures. It is a huge urban planning issue.

There is a lot of merit in the arguments against uncontrolled proliferation of big box stores. They do alter the local economies, and usually not for the best in regard to the surrounding community and lower income people. As an urban planner in the states, I have supported some communities against big box store development.

However, in the context of Thailand, and what others have described similar to the ops post, I can totally understand. There is no planning here, and there is no concept of healthy or fair competition. If you abuse your customer base on the basis of something akin to a monopoly, then I say bring on the competition, and maybe then people will learn how to treat their customers.

[Rinrada]

Still cant seem to get OXO cubes even in the Biggis....wheres ra cube?

[kiakaha]

I live in the province of Sa Kaeo. The province of Sa Kaeo has no shopping centers or Big C, Tesco or any other large store.

In the town of Sa Kaeo all (most) of the merchants have a captive audience. They charge what ever the traffic will bear and have had it their way for as long as I can remember.

Does this sound familiar?

I am driving up the street and see a parking place right in front of where I want to go and shop. Before I can park, someone from that shop runs out and places 2 plastic chairs in the street to prevent me or anyone else from parking there.

I am forced to park far from the shop and have to walk in the street back to where I want to go because all or most of the stores have also placed merchendice out on the sidewalk so much so that it is virtually impossible to walk on the side walk. I am quite sure that the police have been paid to look the other way.

Once inside the shop I have problems navigating down the extremely narrow aisles (less than a meter wide). I am constantly on guard that I might accidentally trip over stock that has not yet been placed on the shelves or worse yet, brush against a precarious display and cause breakage.

I find the product that I want and see that it has no price on it.

The product is out of date and is shop worn from sitting on the shelf for far too long.

There is an association of merchants that constantly fight to keep ANY big store out so as not to change the strangle hold they have on the community.

Now for the FINAL INSULT –

I am holding my purchases in a hand basket and am 4th in line. The owner / cashier spots a friend that wants to check out and allows him to go to the front of the line. I am expected to just wait and let all friends and more favorite customers go first, THEN I am allowed to make my purchase. I would go somewhere else but there is nowhere else to go.

Drive to Rangsit once a fortnight and stock up.

[Galong]

Drop the goods on the floor and move back to civilization.

Here here... I agree with everything except moving back to civilization. The mom and pop shops mostly suck... bad service, crappy selection, dirty, narrow isles and so on.

They're bitching about competition but we're not seeing any improvement in the mom and pop shops. Why don't they simply compete with the bigger stores by making their shops more appealling. No that would require getting out of their seats and doing some work It's easier to bitch about everything rather than work for more customers.

BTW, the bigger stores are full of Thais. They see the benefit of having everything in one store and all of the other nice things about a one-stop for everything store.

[peterjackson]

Hey

I think it is as plain and simple as people voting with their feet and their Baht.

If the 'mon and pop' store could provide everything you want, at reasonable prices, in date and friendly service, why would you need to go to the 'box' stores.

The fact is, the 'mon and pop' stores do not provide what the 'mass' market of people want and therefore people shop elsewhere when an alternative is available.

The big companies just don't build a store without first looking at the demographics etc.... their investment only pays off, if they appeal to the people within their catchment area.

I think it is definately a step backwards to limit the building of the 'box' stores in a way mandated by the Thai government.

Kind regards

Peter

[egeefay]

I don't think the government should be involved in trying to limit freedom of choice.

If customers prefer to shop at the big box stores, the mom and pops are going to have to offer an incentive to woo them back.

More convenient locations, better service, more convenient hours, more personalized service, hard to find products.

It's apparent that a lot of people don't think very highly of mom and pop stores: They don't post prices, carry outdated merchandise, are poorly lit , have crowded and narrow pathways and overcharge. Those are some of the criticism I am hearing.

Rather than cry foal, the mom and pop stores should ban together, organize themselves and improve their service.

You can't force people to shop at your stores. You have to attract them.

[Heng]

In a lot of cases, it's win win anyway. Almost all of the superstores lease long term (instead of purchasing outright), often on land that was once rows of shophouses (mom and pop owned). Mom and pop families often essentially get to have their rental income locked in long term, if not forever. Certainly beats the daily hassles of small merchant life. Not to mention all the mom and pop shops that convert themselves into Central Family Marts, CP 7-11's, Fresh Marts, etc. (I don't remember what the %'s are, but for CP, I think it's about evenly split between CP run and franchisee run units). It's by no means always Big Business snuffing out small business.

[LoveDaBlues]

Drop the goods on the floor and move back to civilization.

exactly

[Gary A]

I'm not a lover of super stores BUT the mom and pop shops DON'T have many of the items that I am interested in. Tesco Lotus has been trying to open a store in Loei for over a year. They have encountered all sorts of obstacles from city hall to the local small merchants. It may NEVER open even though the building is there and all the Tesco Lotus signs are up. It's 150 kilometers to the nearest super store in Udon Thani. It's irritating to say the least but I'm not willing to move just to be able to spend my money. The mom and pop shops don't rip me off because my wife won't let me go in them.

[the swagman]

Pretty much ditto to all that has been said.

Mom and Pop stores just don't have the stock, (not to mention the air con) that the big superstores have.

Out of date goods, inconsistent prices, limited choice.

I usually buy cigarettes and beer at M & P but restrict my food purchases to the bigger stores. I know it is fresher and so much variety.

Way of topic here, but have you noticed how many types of bloody toothbrushes there are ?

[steveromagnino]

It should not be an either or, it should be:

1. How can we transition from 40+% of retail being mom/pop to a lower percentage without mass unemployment/ broke people

2. Is there an optimum mix between hyper markets, mini market chains and Mom pops and if so, what is it

3. What are the costs if any of hyper markets on infrastructure, and how do the current methods ensure fairness and not carry cross subsidy

The answer to the first question is a clear path for deregulation, and given the hiddeousness of the hyper markets in their current design (take a look at any Big C and specifically the one opposite World Trade for an exercise in hiddeousness) there are some regulations required to ensure that not every town ends up looking like a dump. It cannot be done all at once, but it will happen so set a timetable and go for it. Currently, the ban on hypermarkets in city centres is just kicking in because they all negotiated a ton of sites about 3 years ago when the ban started and are just finishing those sites now AFAIK. Also, the less than 300m2 requirement is something that even I have had some experience in consulting on to get around it. There is room for both, but a Big C does not belong in the middle of a typical high street shopping and wouldn't be put there in most places in the world for a whole viarety of reasons.

The answer to the second question is that in SOME cases mom and pops outperform. Let's get away from cigarettes and so on, and talk tiles. Boonthaworn, although not the typical mom/pop is far better than say Homepro or Tesco Lotus for tiles and the like. That's what they do, specialise.

Let's talk vegetables. Some markets are far better and cheaper than Tesco or similar. And then you have the homegrown hyper markets which are actually doing fine too; are they a mom/pop or are they a hypermarket?

Some mom pops, most mom pops have logistics problems, customer service problems and pricing problems. But not all, and the policies should encourage mom/pops to head into these areas.

Regarding the urban planning issue, these hyper markets DO need to be controlled as they have a huge impact on traffic, pollution, roading and so on. I am totally unsure whether they are subsidised or subsidise mom and pop shops. I haven't done any work in this area before.

In conclusion, the future is in a balance of the two. It will need to take time to allow some mom/pops to gracefully exit, and to ensure that each new hyper market site doesn't screw up the surroundings like some of them do (e.g. Carrefour Ratchada which clogs traffic).

But claiming all mom/pops are incompetent and need protection or claiming that hyper markets will wipe them all out is crazy. There are plenty out there that don't need help and provide perfectly good service.

Incidentally, the last round of protection from hyper markets...who instigated it?!

CP. This was their window to push 7:11s throughout Thailand, and they supported Mom/pop store formats while pushing their own franchised/owned version of it.

[kat]

Yes, all good points.

[dave111223]

The answer to the second question is that in SOME cases mom and pops outperform. Let's get away from cigarettes and so on, and talk tiles. Boonthaworn, although not the typical mom/pop is far better than say Homepro or Tesco Lotus for tiles and the like. That's what they do, specialise.

What are you talking about?? Boonthaworn is massive, it's spread out over both sides of the street, its way bigger than a Home Pro store. And its totally the opposite of a mom/pop store, if Boonthaworn fall sinto the "Mom & Pop" category so does just about everything else.

[Heng]

Boonthaworn are "mom and pop" in the sense that the company is still completely owned by one family. Compared to Home Pro or Homemart, they are 'small' in that they only have 4 (massive) branches, while the other guys have many more. They just happen to be a successful "mom and pop" operation. Boonrawd (Singh) would another "mom and pop" vs. big business ThaiBev (Chang) example.

[Scott]

Mom & Pops here are a real problem. I've lived in several areas and I've always tried to support them, but the service and selection is just so bad. I would buy the things they regularly stocked--just because I wanted them to stay open and have those things. Invariably when they would run out of stock, it would take up to a month to restock.

One place where I lived, there was one that converted to the 7-11 format. They had a/c and an amazing array of products. I've moved from the area, but the last time I was back there, I noticed it's doing great business and the owner--who a few years ago had a motorbike now has a new Mercedes!

[steveromagnino]

The answer to the second question is that in SOME cases mom and pops outperform. Let's get away from cigarettes and so on, and talk tiles. Boonthaworn, although not the typical mom/pop is far better than say Homepro or Tesco Lotus for tiles and the like. That's what they do, specialise.

What are you talking about?? Boonthaworn is massive, it's spread out over both sides of the street, its way bigger than a Home Pro store. And its totally the opposite of a mom/pop store, if Boonthaworn fall sinto the "Mom & Pop" category so does just about everything else.

Exactly, which is half the problem; what IS a mom and pop?

Everyone thinks of the little old lady selling cans of coke from an antiquated fridge, when there are also massive enterprises like Boonthaworn as well.

And what about Jatujact, one of the premium retail attractions of BKK iMHO? Mom and Pop all the way. But...when we consider the retail format of open air market, well that is actually the trend of shopping centres in USA at the moment (admittedly in a significantly niceer format - large open spaces, not enclosed, entertainment and activities). Then when we look a somewhere like J Avenue; you have a series of small one off shops rather than chains there...are these Mom and pops? .

AFAIK the people asking for protection aren't the little old ladies for the most part. It is a sponsored exercise with family mart/CP on one side with 7 11, and the hyper markets on the other. THe longer CP can hold off the hyper markets, the faster they can open convenience stores and prevent the hyper markets from following.

There are some markets that have been going from strength to strength even when located right near hyper markets, and others that have gone under. I don't buy into this catch all 'mom and pops don't know customer service' - many don't but a few do, and if they can get inventory and service right, there is certainly a place for somewhere open within walking distance to buy a can of coke, bottle of beer, ice, snack etc. Also, hyper markets cannot easily deal with lots and lots of tiny suppliers; they aren't set up to handle that, and this is why formats like Jatujact will do just fine in future. And Homepro cannot compete on price or service with the franchise type formats (if well run) like Homemart and mom pops like Boonthaworn who specialise on just certain aspects of construction.

But the transition is key; same as deregulation or change anywhere. And that leaves mom and pops with a few options:

- niche player and do it well e.g. Boonthaworn

- link with other mom and pops and create economies of scale through overall mass e.g. Jatujact

- upskill and upgrade with right mix e.g. various markets and stores doing fine near hyper markets

- win over community then lobby

But for sure they don't deserve special protection forever just because they are mom and pop. Bring on competition!

Now....if only they could ban fast food expansion and soft drinks.....that would be something worth doing!