Visa Rules Will Be Tightened To Stop Abuse

[sjaak327]

Where can you get the latest offical rules?

in particular visa exempt countries?

is it kept up o date or do you get suprises at the border...

I am Canadian.

This list is up to date:

http://www.thaivisa.com/479.0.html

No it isn't up to date, Brazil Korea chile and peru are listed as 30 days entry, but they do in fact get 90 days. Laos is not listed at all, still Lao ordinary passport holders get 30 days on entry.

Source:

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2381.php#thailand

Anyway very strange that people here are claiming that people on visa runs are cheating. That is clearly not the case. The law states that someone gets a certain amount of days upon entry based upon his nationality.

[Maestro]

I must be missing something.....I am not working or running a business, I am not married to a Thai, I am not over 50, I do not want to deposit 3 million Baht in a Thai bank account, I am also not on the run from anyone or in hiding, I spend over 100,000 Baht per month in Thailand......I am 36 and financially stable, to my knowledge the only non-tourist visa available to me is an Elite card which I have to pay $25,000 up front to get a 5-year visa....even if I don't want to stay 5 years.....whats that all about?

Don’t worry, whatever, if any, changes will be implemented it will not affect you. A rich man like you will always be welcome in Thailand. If you are doing perennial 30-day border runs now, things may even get easier for you.

As for me, if I were 36 and rich enough not to have to work for the rest of my life, I doubt I would chose to live permanently in Thailand. I would soon get bored. But to everyone his own.

---------------

Maestro

[Ijustwannateach]

Actually, Pui, we have an excellent subforum right here on this very board for Teachers in Thailand. And visa problems affect us as well, especially (as Sunbelt points out) one of our number, though a loopy bird, was probably responsible for some of this "crackdown." Many teachers will have to worry about increased visa pressure because the schools are just soooooo bad about getting things done even in the more lenient time periods available now. So this news is worth discussing for us, too. Hope you won't mind.

"Steven"

[trajan]

get the right visa and get legal not fair to those who comply with the system and take the time and expense to comply.....

Can I presume you do comply?

Don't you think having a monthly trip to the border is a reasonable price to pay?

Perhaps there needs to be a bigger shake-up of the visas than this. Eg. India do a 6 month tourist visa.

Don't forget that not all 1 month visa runners are not English teachers. If you want to come for an extended holiday why should you have to go through all the paperwork and expense?

yes I do comply....monthly border visa runs (whatever they cost) are not the solution.... get a proper visa, get legal and stop complaining....

[Foggy Bottom]

"remember many of the types on the BOI promotion list only need ONE million baht of invested capital per foreigner"

GAZ....you got any links to the BOI promotion list you can share?

www.boi.go.th

apart from the information on the site, they also have an extremely comprehensive links page to all other government offices, business federations, financiers etc etc

Gaz

[Maestro]

You made the comparision to a western country, I was simply extrapilating on that.

And so was I; extrapolating.

I suggested not to speculate on the basis of what appears to be an inaccurate news report of what a government official said, but if I were to speculate I would guess that it is about making it more difficult for foreigners to work illegally in Thailand. Hence my comment on a Thai man’s need to pay income tax on his earnings if he lives and works in your home country.

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Maestro

[cclub75]

"remember many of the types on the BOI promotion list only need ONE million baht of invested capital per foreigner"

You have to be serious. BOI privileges are for real business. Not visa scam...

And with 1 million, you'll go between zero and nowhere.

I'm working in a BOI company... Regulations to follow, paperwork to provide are very strict and extensive.

I don't say that they don't try to help the genuine investors, they do, and BOI is very interesting with a lot of advantages. But it's not "free" if I may say.

So create a BOI company in order to get 1 visa/work permit is total madness.

[sjaak327]

I have my doubts about this new "law".

I arrived in Thailand on July 22 and got my first 30 days, left Thailand at Nong Khai going to Laos, then re-entered Thailand three days later at Nakhon Phanom. After a tour in the norht, went back to Bangkok and left for Singapore on the 2nd of August, re-entering Thailand 3 days later. Now, let's just say I want to go to Cambodia and return to Thailand to catch my flight back to Europe, this wouldn't be possible anymore since I already had my three entries. So I would say that this not only affects non tourist, but it will also limit tourist in going from one country to another in the region, and use Thailand as a travel hub.

[ThailandTony]

I must be missing something.....I am not working or running a business, I am not married to a Thai, I am not over 50, I do not want to deposit 3 million Baht in a Thai bank account, I am also not on the run from anyone or in hiding, I spend over 100,000 Baht per month in Thailand......I am 36 and financially stable, to my knowledge the only non-tourist visa available to me is an Elite card which I have to pay $25,000 up front to get a 5-year visa....even if I don't want to stay 5 years.....whats that all about?

Don’t worry, whatever, if any, changes will be implemented it will not affect you. A rich man like you will always be welcome in Thailand. If you are doing perennial 30-day border runs now, things may even get easier for you.

As for me, if I were 36 and rich enough not to have to work for the rest of my life, I doubt I would chose to live permanently in Thailand. I would soon get bored. But to everyone his own.

---------------

Maestro

Thanks for the words of encouragement Maestro.....lol....I never get bored of meeting people and listening to their story, hey if their not stoned, blotto, crazed or confrontational I might even buy them a beer with my vast wealth!....however far-fetched they sometimes get....as for retiring to Thailand....the culture is rich, the people are friendly, the country is vast and the flowers smell beautiful....something I never really got a chance to experience until 1993. I would like something inbetween the 30-days and the non-imm options....and hey, I'm also willing to pay for it....go figure?

[Maestro]

I think I'll wait and see on this one before I panic

You just got me thinking...

No, I said one shouldn’t speculate...

...but since I already started that sentence: you just got me thinking that the commissioner might have given that interview in order to panic some of the border runners who work illegally in Thailand into getting legal.

---------------

Maestro

[dob310870]

get the right visa and get legal not fair to those who comply with the system and take the time and expense to comply.....

Can I presume you do comply?

Don't you think having a monthly trip to the border is a reasonable price to pay?

Perhaps there needs to be a bigger shake-up of the visas than this. Eg. India do a 6 month tourist visa.

Don't forget that not all 1 month visa runners are not English teachers. If you want to come for an extended holiday why should you have to go through all the paperwork and expense?

By paperwork do you mean a one-sided form to fill in, with your name, passport number, reason for visit and previous visits entered? By expense do you mean £25 for a 60 day tourist visa? I was just wondering whether I found an unknown loophole in the system when I bought my two tourist visa's last week.

[ramidin]

Good points Gonzo and Jean!!! If you want to stay, just get yourself sorted out legally . . . . .

G

Gee, why so much fuss about a tourist visa. A tourist visa can be 60 days. Seems more than enough for a holiday.

And people wanting to stay longer, ask a non immigrant visa.

And if you are here and you are not a tourist, well obvious you did something wrong in planning for a visa.

If you support someone get a 1 year visa. If you work get a business visa and a work permit. No excuses.

Jean, you must understand the loudest protesters are those here who will not admit that they are the ones who want the immigration laws to bend for them. and they offer all kinds of excuses ,,, spending lots of money here, supporting 10 families and 3 buffalo, etc... Those protesters can still stay, but they would have to get the correct visa to stay the way they are entitled to. The law here says they cannot live here forever on a tourist visa. Simple.

There are a multitude of visa types to allow you to stay. If you do not wish to apply for the correct visa, or cannot afford the proper visa , well then in that case don't blame the immigration people for saying you are here illegally.

Thats life all over the world. Complainers don't complain if you do not fit the rules. Use the rules to work for you. In the end it will be better for all.

Yup, couldn't agree more. Get the right visa. It is well known that the target is the 'perpetual monthly visa run'. You can't be a 'tourist' for years on end, well not any more.

If you want to stay in LOS, then get your annual non-immigrant 'O' or 'B' with multiple entry ( now only available in coundtry of origin), as Vientiane, Singapore, Penang and KL no longer issue multiple 'B' visa. Or, if over 55 get a retirement visa.

As I understand they are tightening all the rules to prevent illegal work, etc.

Rather than complain and ask if you can somehow bend the rules, spend the energy hetting the proper visa, and demonstrate you want to live within the law in LOS.

Ok, soap box off to be cleaned now.

[sriracha john]

However, some foreigners including tourists ''tiptoe around the law'' by resorting to so-called visa runs to extend their stay. Most take a bus to a border, check out of the country and then return the same day to have the VOA renewed.

They repeat the practice as many times as they wish, affording them almost unlimited stay in the country.

Pol Lt-Gen Suwat said the change of the VOA rules is in order.

In future, foreigners from those 41 countries will be able to stay in the country for 30 days from the first VOA stamp, which will be renewable twice at most, each time for a maximum of 30 days. In other words, a foreigner will be permitted to remain in Thailand for no longer than 90 days in total after three VOA stamps.

The commissioner said the current system is prone to abuse as many foreign nationals make numerous visa runs so they can stay on long term to do business. In some cases, they have gone unregulated, causing social problems.

This is the same Khun Suwat, who is The #1 Man in Immigration, that made up the buffoonish lies when he proudly paraded John Mark Karr in front of the world press. Relating stories he had read or watched previously and stating that this is what John Mark Karr had said in his confession... only to retract them a day later and clarifying that Karr never said those things.

His stories/comments in this article are misleading and confusing and surprisingly contradictory, considering that he is the Head Honcho of Immigration.

Perhaps he should have an underling that can speak a language, Thai or English, clearly and truthfully, to be the one who makes announcements to the press instead of making a donkey's behind of himself.

People that complain Immigration is messed up need not look any further than this bozo to find a cause.

Edited September 10, 2006 by sriracha john

[thaigene2]

it will make a huge dent in tourism.

No it won't.

[biggle]

the same thing happened a few years ago , only they said 6 entries were allowed . all that happened was that the mini-bus companies in pattaya had to start paying the immigration at the border 50 baht per head , and everything was ok.

[Foggy Bottom]

"remember many of the types on the BOI promotion list only need ONE million baht of invested capital per foreigner"

You have to be serious. BOI privileges are for real business. Not visa scam...

And with 1 million, you'll go between zero and nowhere.

I'm working in a BOI company... Regulations to follow, paperwork to provide are very strict and extensive.

I don't say that they don't try to help the genuine investors, they do, and BOI is very interesting with a lot of advantages. But it's not "free" if I may say.

So create a BOI company in order to get 1 visa/work permit is total madness.

As with so many posts in TV forums - you are suffering from selective reading

I never suggested to make a BOI-approved company solely to get annual visa extensions - the suggestion was part of a broader suggestion that for those who think they cannot do anything here, it is not as unaffordable as many think.

Additionally, there are many manufacturing types in the west that do not already exxist in Thailand, but which are high profit generators, and need little investment to start ( either because they are immediate earners at high profits or because the owners skills are a far more important investment than capital outlay). Note I also quoted the investment PER FOREIGNER therefore having several foreigners each invest the minimum yields a higher capitalisation.

Think beyond only the words written - if you cannot do that, you will have a tough time operating under the published rules and regs of Thailand. Remember the old (Northern) Thai maxim - "we teach people by only giving them half of the information and leave them to discover the rest".

Gaz

[dob310870]

I live in CM and there must be hundreds, if not thousands of foreigners living here that do this. Do the Thai government not want these people spending money in LOS?

no they dont and rightly so....if you are on a perpetual rotating tourist visa run (or perpetual visa exempt re-entry merry-go-round), then you are cheating the system and have no right to complain if the authorities decide to stop the cheating (even if you are supporting three buffalos and an entire bar)....

get the right visa and get legal not fair to those who comply with the system and take the time and expense to comply.....

cheating the system?!? with such a byzantine system subject to the whim of a few malinformed myrmidons - what's there to cheat? Dems dat got should not look down on dems dat are strugglin' to stay in Thailand by whatever means - even if at the fringes of legality. Overall, foreigners do a lot more good for Thailand than the Thai do for themselves - and foreigners certainly bring in tubloads of outside money.

Is that how you really speak?? 'Byzantine' and 'Myrmidons'? Do your friends have to carry dictionaries around with them?? 'Dems dat'???? Good post anyway, I got a lot from that and Answers.com got two hits form me..(but I think the string is about visa's and immigration, if you have anything original to say.)

[thaigene2]

I think many people are missing the real point here - okay, as I see it anyway.

We've known for some time that the government was trying to clean up 'the trash' so to speak...the farang kee nok types were tolerated for a long time, but now the country is promoting itself to a higher income tourists and a diffrent demographic - i.e. older and richer - for medical tourism and for tropical paradise middle-class love bird types.

This is just more of the same.

The thing to be more worried about is the general 'air' that the government creates when publicly announcing plans to crack down on foreigners..When they start talking in derisatory ways about foreigners the mood can get uglier..(i.e. - Tesco and Big C are taking away business from the mom and pop Thai-Chinese middle class, etc).

How will this affect longer term expats here with condos/houses and families? Just cause you own a house or a condo doesn't give you a legal right to live here..something to think about..or maybe worry about (a bit anyway). What happens if you and your Thai wife are paying off a mortgage (in her name) on your house/land and the govt suddenyl announces you need to show income of 100,000 Baht per month - but you earn or import only 50,000 B? They don;t let you come back? How do you pay the mortgage? Do you and your wife default? These are the things to get a bit concerned over. As I said before (and others too) Mr T and all the other Thai politicians don't give a rat's arse about you and your mia farang and the luuk krung kids..

[cclub75]

I never suggested to make a BOI-approved company solely to get annual visa extensions - the suggestion was part of a broader suggestion that for those who think they cannot do anything here, it is not as unaffordable as many think.

Additionally, there are many manufacturing types in the west that do not already exxist in Thailand, but which are high profit generators, and need little investment to start ( either because they are immediate earners at high profits or because the owners skills are a far more important investment than capital outlay). Note I also quoted the investment PER FOREIGNER therefore having several foreigners each invest the minimum yields a higher capitalisation.

I really do enjoy your northern thai wisdom and sense of nuance. But still, you're wrong. Speaking about BOI company in a visa discussion, and especially regarding visa run, is thinking really out of the box... Way out of it.

To follow your path, we could say that applying for thai citizenship could solve the problem too.

On the paper.

But i prefer to talk about things that are practical.

[Maestro]

This is the same Khun Suwat, who is The #1 Man in Immigration, that made up the buffoonish lies when he proudly paraded John Mark Karr in front of the world press. Relating stories he had read or watched previously and stating that this is what John Mark Karr had said in his confession... only to retract them a day later and clarifying that Karr never said those things.

Oh, well, in that case we might as well forget the whole story. Nothing at all will come of it, nothing at all can be expected to change in the way things are today.

---------------

Maestro

[bendix]

Well, I for one think this is a good thing, and think it's entirely appropriate that the Thai Govt should be aiming to rid itself of the human detritus that makes up the monthly visa-runners.

Get real, get legal, or get yourself home.

And stop complaining if the Thai Government decides to change the rules on you - it's their country, and they can do what they like.

[shotover]

People that complain Immigration is messed up need not look any further than this bozo to find a cause.

Agree wholeheartedly with this conclusion, and with Sunbelt's early reading that the media frenzy about John Karr could be a prime reason for this discussion.

Out of curiousity, did anyone see definetively whether Karr was staying (and occasionally working) in Thailand on a valid visa (with or without a valid work permit), or simply making 30 day border runs?

[Huckenfell]

Certain situation make it hard or impossible to get the right visa. Me for instance, I do not work in Thailand but I have income from my investments and business abroad. I am 24 years old and I do not qualify for the retirement visa.

Do you visit your business abroad at least once a year? Then you should be able to get a multiple-entry non-O visa from a service-oriented Thai consulate in your home country.

Alternatively, you have the option of putting some of your investment (3 million Baht) in Thailand and get a non-IM visa, with annual extensions.

Two choices of the “right visa”

And then, consider what options a Thai national in the same situation has in your home country.

---------------

Maestro

I would love to be in my wife's postion for coming to the UK!

Okay, £300 for the visa - but after that she get's to stay for a year. Then applies for Indefinite Leave to Remain - she can then apply for a NI number and then has the same rights as I do in the UK. Free health-service, eligible for credit, can own property. She doesn't have to bring in an amount of money every month that is almost 10 times more than minimum wage.

After 3 years she can then apply for UK citizenship and can carry a UK passpost and all the benfits that are afforded from that.

Then i read in other Forums , how rude the UK embassy staff are towards Thai wives and how its almost impossible to get a UK visa ! .......Just who is telling the truth here, or perhaps the UK Embassy are realising just how difficult the Thai govt are making life for british nationals and just reciprocating.............Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander ?

[swervie2000]

My apologies to thaivisa.com for saying they were a little slow on this important announcement in a previous post. I overlooked this thread. My feelings are that, first, the immigration department are waiting on the Royal Thai Police to approve this plan as mentioned in the article. That may take awhile and they may not be up to the task of enforcing...second, what are they going to do to foreigners when they make their last run and are stuck there at the border? Accept bribes, process and handle a ton of deportations at the border?I think these new regulations will initially be enforced, and then, like with most policy and policing regulations in Thailand, will be abandoned. Besides, the country will lose HUGE amounts of revenue from foreigners staying here on the month to month method. This policy is kind of simliar to the B10K that has to be shown when re-entering the Kingdom at the Myanmar/Thailand border, sketchy at best enforcement. It's also similiar to the reentry without haveing to do the actual run of a few years ago - That has been enforced...This thing will be interesting to see how it plays out and what effect it has on foreigners doing the month to month method...

[bob/nyc]

Let's see..............................what will they enforce first ??

The crackdown on Tesco Lotus and Carrefour or the new Visa rules......hmmmmm

Or maybe they will come up with another fiasco..

[Maestro]

...the Thai Govt should be aiming to rid itself of the human detritus that makes up the monthly visa-runners.

Wow! You really know how to wield a sledge hammer!

At least you accorded them the adjective “human”. Just think, you might be one of them in a future life.

Of course they should get legal. They can’t all be young, rich multi-millionaires who know nothing better to do with their lives than hang around permanently in Thailand...but “detritus”?

---------------

Maestro

[SamuiJens]

As someone statet already...if U R young + rich, U'll hv trouble getting a visa.

Nonsense, do you know how immigration officials work?

10,000 baht will get you a 1 year visa - simple.

HOW,

or are you just a rebel without a clue?

[Sunbelt Asia]

People that complain Immigration is messed up need not look any further than this bozo to find a cause.

Agree wholeheartedly with this conclusion, and with Sunbelt's early reading that the media frenzy about John Karr could be a prime reason for this discussion.

Out of curiousity, did anyone see definetively whether Karr was staying (and occasionally working) in Thailand on a valid visa (with or without a valid work permit), or simply making 30 day border runs?

Odds are he did not have a valid work permit. He was bouncing from school to school and just started work at the last one, several days before. Odds are he did not get approved in two days as when you leave a school, the work permit cancels unless you have two companies in the work permit.

Probability it was a non-immigrant B as he had arrived in Bangkok from Penang. If he was doing a 30 day tourist run, based on the place he stayed at, he would of taken a bus( unless of course he hated buses )

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[lung]

Get real, get legal, or get yourself home.

do you really give away a WORK PERMIT ??

your joboffer here

Edited September 10, 2006 by lung

[dob310870]

I didn't count on so many knickers getting twisted today! What a rude awakening for those of you who think Thailand should be all and everything you demand of it. I'll bet more than a few corn-flakes and toast were ruined this morning with this news.

As so many have pointed out, soooooo many times........there're countless, legal options for you to stay here and to actually start paying some tax (and make a real contribution to this country you claim you love so much).

Perhaps, if you can even speak a modicum of Thai, pop down to your nearest immigration bureau and see how accomodating most of them are to your needs. Just leave the attitude at the front door.

Stop bitching and get legal. What a bunch of whingers. I for one, am delighted.

Well said!!!!!! Taxes? Whingers don't wan't to pay taxes. If whingers paid taxes the they wouldn't have as much money to 'Lord-it' over the Thai people they deal with everyday...The Thailand economy can make the biggest, under-achieving, whinging, Western loser feel like a Prince. If they get legal and pay taxes it represents too much social responsibilty...next thing you know they will be cutting off their dreads, bathing, sobering up, getting a job that they have to work at to keep and dressing in something other than fisherman's trousers and sandels......