Banks hidden charges for Bank transfers

[Mali1964]

On Tuesday i sent £1600 with a fixed £9.50 Halifax fee to my wifes Bangkok Bank account, it arrived today at 13.00hrs uk time ok great sevice but i got a txt to confirm it had arrived & for the first time i saw a breakdown of charges etc, I'm aware of the 0.5% 200 min/500 max charge at the thai end which was 205bt what surprised me was they show that they only received £1595 pounds sterling so who took this fiver ?

I rang Halifax this afternoon & they have launched an enquiry to see who took it? They did confirm that it went through standard charter in London WHY ???

I mentioned Bangkok bank have a branch in London & was told i may be able to request they send it through them, its obviously standard charter that have took the money another stealth skimming cream of the top from greedy banks.

Unless Bangkok Bank have skimmed it lets wait an see.

Anyway Halifax are finding out if that was a fixed fee or a percentage fee? So i can take this into account when my pensions start to be transfered in a couple of years.

Anyone aware of this charge & why its not shown or mentioned.

[nebular nancy]

surest way not to be scammed by banks to to not send any money to thailand in any way.

[KittenKong]

It is quite common for banks, and especially small banks and building societies, to use another bank for their international work, or to send some transfers to smaller banks or unusual countries via another bigger bank with more direct international contacts. It's also quite common for this intermediary bank to make a charge. Sometimes the originating bank will absorb this charge, or at least negotiate so that it is very small.

For what it's worth, one big Channel Islands based UK bank that advertises "no fees for international transfers" did a similar thing for me a few years ago and the intermediary charge from some German bank to send money here was nearly 100Euro. You can imagine how high I jumped when that happened. I complained and threatened to close my account and eventually got a written apology from the big cheese of my bank and a full refund and a modest gesture of compensation, and then I did close my account. It will be a cold day in hell before they ever get any of my money again.

I compare that with one of my other UK banks that advertises "no fees for international transfers" and who did exactly that. All I paid was the 500B receiving charge here.

[Gsxrnz]

I understand that Halifax is a building society. They therefore have no direct ability to remit funds overseas and must use a real bank as their intermediary. Standard practice for building societies and credit unions etc.

The intermediary bank quite rightfully charges a fee for that service. Five quid is quite cheap.

If any institution should be held to account for their actions, It should be the Halifax - they were remiss in not advising you of the intermediary bank's charges.

No conspiracy here.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Gsxrnz

[Mali1964]

Halifax (previously known as HalifaxBuilding Society) is a banking chain in the United Kingdom and a division ofBank of Scotland, itself a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group. It is the UK's largest provider of residential mortgages and savings accounts.

[Mali1964]

Been with them long enough to know there a bank actually one of the largest groups in the UK.

[Pib]

Probably a correspondent/intermediary bank (i.e., middle man bank Halifax must route the money through to get the money to your Bangkok Bank account) took the five pounds. Expect it was Standard Charter London that sliced off the 5 pounds....or if Standard Charter London must then relay it to a Thai bank in Thailand like Standard Charter Thailand before it's relayed over to your Bangkok Bank account then that Thai bank may have took the 5 pounds. Bangkok Bank's international currency receipt/conversion fee is 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max).

Halifax weblink talking their international payments...it talks a little about correspondent banks....partial quote below: Link

How long will my international payment take to arrive?

The transferred money will reach the country you’re sending it to within two working days. The funds will often have to go through two banks in that country, including:

• The recipient bank – this holds the account you’re sending the money to
• The correspondent bank – this is a receiving bank in the same country that is involved in processing the transaction.

First, the money goes to the correspondent bank. Once there, it is subject to local banking practices and any differences in time zones. The money is then sent on to the recipient bank. How quickly this happens depends on a few factors such as the day and time it arrives at the correspondent bank.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Pib

[Henryford]

I often send money via the halifax to thailand. Their 9.50 fee is shown clearly but i can never reconcile the amount i send with the amount that arrives using the current TT rate and a (supposed) 500 baht max charge from Kasikorn. Somewhere along the way someone steals another 500-1,000 baht. Either at the UK end or here. I heard once that all transfers go into the main head office branch in Bangkok and there is a fee to send it to your local branch.

[KittenKong]

I heard once that all transfers go into the main head office branch in Bangkok and there is a fee to send it to your local branch.

It's correct that incoming foreign transfers go via a central branch, but I've never heard of there being a charge for this, apart from the regular 200-500B one.

[Naam]

they show that they only received £1595 pounds sterling so who took this fiver ?

to the gallows with these gangsters and before that a little torturing!

[Mali1964]

they show that they only received £1595 pounds sterling so who took this fiver ?

to the gallows with these gangsters and before that a little torturing!

Typical help & advise from the old sarcastic thai visa forum troll Naam !! So you don't bother with the banks misleading you maybe you are part of the scam yourself? Its not the money its the sneakiness of the banks & still after the PPI scam & Libor fixing just to name a few,no transparency yet again.

Banks must make a small fortune on this fee alone per year many millions i bet get back to your Beer Leo Naam you angy old git.

[topt]

they show that they only received £1595 pounds sterling so who took this fiver ?

to the gallows with these gangsters and before that a little torturing!

Typical help & advise from the old sarcastic thai visa forum troll Naam !! So you don't bother with the banks misleading you maybe you are part of the scam yourself? Its not the money its the sneakiness of the banks & still after the PPI scam & Libor fixing just to name a few,no transparency yet again.

Banks must make a small fortune on this fee alone per year many millions i bet get back to your Beer Leo Naam you angy old git.

There have been so many recent threads about transferring from the UK and the issue of costs which were unknown to the sender. In almost all cases it seems to turn out to be a correspondent bank fee. Yes this is not transparent but anybody who has done more than 1 or 2 transfers or who has bothered to stay current on posts in this forum should have been aware of it.

You were fortunate only being charged £5 on such a small transfer. We have become used to free banking in the UK but it has never really been that way sending money internationally.

I think KK's earlier example was with Lloyds International and I also had the same issue recently where I lost $55 to a correspondent bank. Making a recent transfer I pushed to get some clarity from my point of contact and she initially suggested they could try using a different intermediary and then actually suggested sending as "sender pays fees" (or something similar) where the charge should be about $18. Bear in mind as KK says they charge no transfer fees

I had to go through telephone banking, due to pathetically low online transfer limit, and the guy could not or would not tell me what the charges would be through one of the other intermediary banks so I asked him to do it as sender pays. It ended up costing me $18.60 plus 520 baht from SCB. Better result than the $55 from before because I bothered to follow it through - and they rang me as well.

[meatboy]

never mind that little bit extra creamed off the top,its the rate they give you and all of us should be concerned.

with exchange rates changeing every hr.of the day how do we know that when our cash arrives we are not given the lowest rate of the day.

this happened to me with my last trans.on the day the b.o.t.dropped their rate.

[lopburi3]

My SMS receipt provides the exchange rate given by BBL for ACH transfers from US - and has always been the first rate of the day as arrive/credit to account first thing in the morning.

[Pib]

Ditto for me whenever sending money from the U.S....always got the opening day/0830 rate except maybe one time per the BBL SMS regarding the arriving/posting transfer. I expect most transfers arriving from the US/Europe arrive during the O-Dark-Early hours Thailand time and are not finally processed/posted to a person's Thai bank account until the bank opens that morning therefore getting the opening day rate. Now for transfers originating from this part of the world during the day like Oz, Singapore, Japan, China, were there is no or little time difference from Thailand I expect those folks are more likely to get a later in the day rate if their wire transfer was a priority transfer.

On that last unexpected 0.25% BOT rate cut on 29 Apr that was announced at 29 Apr 2pm...they always make announcements at 2pm following their Monetary Policy Committee meeting.

Looking at Bangkok Bank's USD TT Buying Rates used for incoming international transfers for 29 Apr they had four rates during the day/29 Apr:

- 0830/Opening Day Rate - Bt32.49

- 1225 - Bt32.53

- 1415 (right after rate announcement) - Bt32.63....a healthy jump...probably reflecting the BOT rate cut announced 15 minutes earlier...only 1 hr 45 minutes left in bank work day

- 1600/Closing Day Rate - Bt32.65

[meatboy]

never mind that little bit extra creamed off the top,its the rate they give you and all of us should be concerned.

with exchange rates changeing every hr.of the day how do we know that when our cash arrives we are not given the lowest rate of the day.

this happened to me with my last trans.on the day the b.o.t.dropped their rate.

my gripe is with SCB. i transfer once a yr.the last being,instructions to my uk. bank 12midday thai time on 28th april.my wife has always got a call next day arround 10am to say its in her acc.and at what rate.

but this time,it was not there at 1pm.on the 29th.so she called head office bkk.oh yes it came in at 1pm.on the 28th.that was SWIFT.

1.30pm she got the call to say its in your acc.WHAT RATE DID SHE RECIEVE? the rate at 13.11 on the 28th [49.317] the lowest of the day.

if like the previous 6transfers it should have been [49.777] 10.32am the 29th.

so someone creamed arround 7,000bht. BLATENT FRAUD.

[Henryford]

never mind that little bit extra creamed off the top,its the rate they give you and all of us should be concerned.

with exchange rates changeing every hr.of the day how do we know that when our cash arrives we are not given the lowest rate of the day.

this happened to me with my last trans.on the day the b.o.t.dropped their rate.

Yes Kasikorn's TT rate always used to be 0.3 baht below the equivalent rate quoted on XE.com. Now it's dropped to 0.5 baht below. Doesn't sound much but i bet that 0.2 brings them in millions.

[Mali1964]

Yes the exchange rate & associated charges are one of the final places banks can stelthly rip the working man off.

In the UK they have to grab back all those billions they have paid in the PPI scandal plus those mega fines for Barclays etc

I'm sure boardrooms are busy working out the next scam to pay for the last scam as the saying goes licence to print money is very true in the banking sector it will never change human instinct breeds dodgy bankers.

[topt]

never mind that little bit extra creamed off the top,its the rate they give you and all of us should be concerned.

with exchange rates changeing every hr.of the day how do we know that when our cash arrives we are not given the lowest rate of the day.

this happened to me with my last trans.on the day the b.o.t.dropped their rate.

Yes Kasikorn's TT rate always used to be 0.3 baht below the equivalent rate quoted on XE.com. Now it's dropped to 0.5 baht below. Doesn't sound much but i bet that 0.2 brings them in millions.

Also the XE rates below are the mid rate and also the Offshore rate - I guess you think they should work for nothing?

On the $US Kasikorn current rate 33.61 http://www.kasikornbank.com/EN/RatesAndFees/ForeignExchange/Pages/ForeignExchange.aspx with a time stamp of 08.45 - GBP 50.88

XE rate 33.77? /GBP 51.36

SCB rate varied today between 33.63 and 33.68 - GBP 51.01 http://www.scb.co.th/scb_api/index.jsp

Maybe you want to switch banks................or currencies

[Naam]

they show that they only received £1595 pounds sterling so who took this fiver ?

to the gallows with these gangsters and before that a little torturing!

Typical help & advise from the old sarcastic thai visa forum troll Naam !! So you don't bother with the banks misleading you maybe you are part of the scam yourself? Its not the money its the sneakiness of the banks & still after the PPI scam & Libor fixing just to name a few,no transparency yet again.

Banks must make a small fortune on this fee alone per year many millions i bet get back to your Beer Leo Naam you angy old git.

so you finally found out that i am the culprit? it took you quite long. to avoid that i take my cut i suggest that you send your money by parcel with UK mail or Royal Mail.

p.s. stealing from Brits who transfer money to Thailand is the reason why i drink fine old Port instead of Leo

[Chivas]

It is quite common for banks, and especially small banks and building societies, to use another bank for their international work, or to send some transfers to smaller banks or unusual countries via another bigger bank with more direct international contacts. It's also quite common for this intermediary bank to make a charge. Sometimes the originating bank will absorb this charge, or at least negotiate so that it is very small.

For what it's worth, one big Channel Islands based UK bank that advertises "no fees for international transfers" did a similar thing for me a few years ago and the intermediary charge from some German bank to send money here was nearly 100Euro. You can imagine how high I jumped when that happened. I complained and threatened to close my account and eventually got a written apology from the big cheese of my bank and a full refund and a modest gesture of compensation, and then I did close my account. It will be a cold day in hell before they ever get any of my money again.

I compare that with one of my other UK banks that advertises "no fees for international transfers" and who did exactly that. All I paid was the 500B receiving charge here.

I'm not sure Halifax could be deemed as small.....??

I too use the Halifax and wasn't aware of any £5 charge. You transferred roughly at the same time as I did 2k to SCB and I netteed 51.06 as an exchange rate. TT on SCB's Website showed 51.37 at the time money hit the account so whatever the difference were charges somewhere

[Chivas]

they show that they only received £1595 pounds sterling so who took this fiver ?

to the gallows with these gangsters and before that a little torturing!

Typical help & advise from the old sarcastic thai visa forum troll Naam !! So you don't bother with the banks misleading you maybe you are part of the scam yourself? Its not the money its the sneakiness of the banks & still after the PPI scam & Libor fixing just to name a few,no transparency yet again.

Banks must make a small fortune on this fee alone per year many millions i bet get back to your Beer Leo Naam you angy old git.

so you finally found out that i am the culprit? it took you quite long. to avoid that i take my cut i suggest that you send your money by parcel with UK mail or Royal Mail.

p.s. stealing from Brits who transfer money to Thailand is the reason why i drink fine old Port instead of Leo

Why you have been persistantly allowed to abuse others over the Years with your Gormless wit only you must know.

[Mali1964]

Halifax just got back to me the reason they use standard charter is they do not have a relationship with Bangkok Bank so have to use a bank that does so I take it different Thai banks will have different relationships with your home bank its worth a phone call to check.

They could not tell me if that £5 was a flat rate or a tiered rate so I'll have to wait for the next txt message, I asked could I do the transfer over the phone to Bangkok Bank London not knowing if London charge anyway ? Yes was the answer but the charge is £19.50 not £9.50 as it is on-line at least I've learned something new & there's not a lot we can do unless we follow the troll Naam's advise & mail it lol.

As far as the rate go's it works out exactly right if i use the 09.55 rate with the £5 removed on the day which was the best of 5 that day the 12.30 rate being less & the money was received at 13.04 so some good news.

Sorry Naam I'm a vehicle technician for Mercedes by trade not a banker were all good at something not everything as your are being a super Human/Vulcan internet troll enjoy ya port sick man's drink that lol

[Naam]

Why you have been persistantly allowed to abuse others over the Years with your Gormless wit only you must know.

for the same reason you are allowed to post irrelevant and shallow comments.

[JAS21]

I gave up using Bank transfer (GBP) as I always seemed to loose out at this end with a poor exchange rate ...the receiving bank seem to change my GBP to THB at a TT rate that suits them ... So I now use Moneycorp who skim off approx. 1.4% from the mid-market rate shown by XE.com. I always have to 'discuss' with them to get the 'skim' down to that percentage. I don't get charged by Moneycorp for the transfer or my UK bank as I BACS to Moneycorp. Sometimes BB charge me 100thb for receiving but not often. I normally buy 10K GBP worth of THB.

Last week I changed and sent my money to CIMB, they charged me 100thb. Moneycorp say that they pick up all the transfer fees, but in practice it doesn't always work like that.

At least I know, in advance, how many THB I will get for my GBP and I prefer it that way.

[Pormax]

Whenever I transfer money from the UK I never get the full amount of Baht that is actually sent.

I do not get my Uk bank to send the money as their rates are so low and charges too high.

I use a company that quotes me a Sterling to Baht rate and get a document giving me an amount of Baht that is sent.

The reason given is that it goes to the main office bank of Kasikorn before being transferred to my account in Buriram.

There is a charge made for sending money to another province not sure what the percentage is.

This is the same if you use an ATM for widrawal of funds from a machine in a different province. A charge of 15B is taken

My friends wife in Rayong sent 600B to my wife to pass onto his daughter in the village. This was done by inserting money into a machine at

a bank. Not sure if it was Kasikorn but I suspect it was not. Kasikorn is the bank my wife uses. Only 550B was received into her account.

So a fee of 50B was taken.

[lopburi3]

Have you checked the rate? Normally it is much better to send foreign money to Thailand and have it changed to Baht inside Thailand. You then receive the full current bank rate and the only change it .25% in the range 200-500 baht.

Yes there are charges for bank transfers inside Thailand, although 50 baht would have had to be a special case (probably not a bank customer) as my transfers are normally 25 baht for the more expensive immediate type.