Thai govt seeks to extradite lese majeste suspect from New Zealand

[Linky]

Reading this, I wonder if this fine young man let the immigration agents know about him having a warrant out for him while he was applying for his New Zealand passport... Or was he in NZ as a refugee.refugee?

Im sure if they knew his request for the passport would have been expedited.

[jesimps]

I see this arose from a speech from a red stage in 2013.

Lets hope they start going carefully through all the speeches from various red stages and activating the stalled cases against all the red leaders who implicated themselves with their hate and violence filled speeches when they thought they were invincible and untouchable.

Robby I do not know your nationality or your age.

What I do know is that a heart full of anger, vengeance and hatred is very bad for health.

The human immune system thrives on happiness, we cannot make you happy, you have to do that for yourself.

Peace, forgiveness and reconciliation are extremely important in the welfare of any nation as well as the health of an individual.

Your chances of having a political person extradited from a country like New Zealand back to Thailand are very close to nil.

The New Zealand culture is one where we can roundly criticise our political opponents and then go off and have a beer with them, nothing like what you are used to in Thailand.

You it would seem know very little and are a little short on being able to work things out as well as having a poor memory.

Could the NZ after my name give a clue, age not your business.

We have been through this hate thing before on another topic and if your memory fails you go back and have a look.

As per our previous conversation I am used to doing what I want and going where I want in this country and have no problem with authority as I choose to obey the law.

No place for hate in my life but I can see the hate in others which brought about the 2010 riots and I believe that those who instigated the riots and perpetuated the hate from their stages should be brought to justice for the sake of their victims and the country.

As for reconciliation, the victims of crime can only find reconciliation in bringing criminals to justice. Allowing criminals to get away with their crime just to make them happy is no answer.

Tell us what your course of action would be if the military kept forcing out the government you voted for in NZ. If reasoning doesn't work what do you do?

How you expect people in this situation to quietly accept it is beyond me.

[Emster23]

I sincerely hope N.Z. has the necessary balls to tell this regime where they can stick their archaic and repressive law......................

Some of the LM is something that would be highly illegal in every country....not only if it is about the King/President....I let it to your imagination what that might be.

But I have no idea what it was in this case. Other cases are known...

Not in my home country.

In the US, you can insult the head of State (the President) in the most explicit terms, 24 hours a day.

The repercussion will be that your friends may abandon you as a "whack job"; but there is no law against it as long as you do not make threats of violence.

I am US citizen, and could say all sorts of foul things there about Obama without problem with law. However if you read the LM law of Thailand, I could be charged for saying those things here because LM includes section that it also applies to "foreign heads of state".

I would hope this is just to play to Thai audience and that those who made this request know they don't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting extradition. This part of "Thainess" the rest of the world just won't go along with.

[chatette]

Surely this pronouncement is for domestic consumption since no country, except other totalitarian regimes, would extradite anyone over alleged breaches of article 112.
Given the number of people charged and jailed for unimaginably long terms under the code since the junta seized power, and the latest pronouncement by the junta leader that even discussion of the code is banned, this would seem to be part of the campaign to curb dissent of any form.
I doubt it would get much play if any in NZ media.

Edited June 17, 2015 by chatette

[AlQaholic]

And where are all the "If you don't like it here go back to where you came from" guys??

[HenryC]

I'm struggling to figure out why NZ would take him in? As what, political asylum for supporting a regime governed over by a convicted criminal on the run.

Really.

[Linky]

I'm struggling to figure out why NZ would take him in? As what, political asylum for supporting a regime governed over by a convicted criminal on the run.

Really.

Yes, because the convicted crim was not officially in office. So he was supporting a genuinely elected govt.

[jesimps]

Had this issue were to happened in N. Korea, Iran, Egypt, or even Russia, he's mug would have

looked so smug... and his family would be by now in hard labor camps of in front of a firing squad....

Many a true word is said in jest. Fast forward a couple of years......

[Maggusoil]

I sincerely hope N.Z. has the necessary balls to tell this regime where they can stick their archaic and repressive law......................

Some of the LM is something that would be highly illegal in every country....not only if it is about the King/President....I let it to your imagination what that might be.

But I have no idea what it was in this case. Other cases are known...

Not in my home country.

In the US, you can insult the head of State (the President) in the most explicit terms, 24 hours a day.

The repercussion will be that your friends may abandon you as a "whack job"; but there is no law against it as long as you do not make threats of violence.

I'm assuming that h90 was referring to threats of violence which as you both would be illegal.

It really is about time some people stopped hiding behind the monarchy and using it for their own ends. Since the king himself has stated that he has made mistakes and should be open to criticism, the LM laws and anyone who uses them against someone who makes statements critical of the king would seem to have contravened those laws as they are acting contrary to the wishes of the king.

I would be careful here. Criticising LM law could be LM in itself. This is one of the most repressive control techniques you will find in a country posing as a supposedly modern democracy, in which freedom of speech, even hate speech should be part of the constitution.

It is a great pity that the only significant movement that has arisen to challenge the status quo, was so misguided in its implementation. With the violence and rhetoric, instead of creating a template for positive change, the Red Shirts did themselves in and buried what chance there was for genuine reform.

People like this, caught up in the heat and fire of the moment are now in the firing line of recrimination and revenge. This does not do the present regime proud, in fact it shines light on something that should be changed.

[Seastallion]

Lets just say that XYZ is a serious crime in NZ, but is perfectly legal in Thailand. Johnny Kiwi commits XYZ in NZ and flees the country to Thailand.

NZ wants Johnny back to face trial.

Should Thailand help NZ and hand Johnny over?

[MeHere]

The law is the law...until it's changed. This numbnuts knew the LM law existed but still broke that law. If he gets sent back to LOS it's tough luck for him.

What I can't understand is.....why the he11 did he pick NZ??? Of all the countries in the world......NEW ZEALAND!

Hmm... What's wrong with NZ?

I'm American but moved to NZ in '95 as well as became a citizen.

NZ has an amazing culture, is one of the most beautiful places on earth and the people are generally lovely.

Your uninformed opinion is now on the internet for all to wonder about.

[Netease]

I hear the Junta is building Jails to accommodate 30,000,000 people to be completed before the next election

[NongKhaiKid]

Los still in its own little world where they are so relevant and the world jumps when they speak.

Remember after the coup when it was announced they would contact various countries to have a couple of dozen LM suspects sent back to face charges ?

Nothing more was heard so either it was decided locally it was a non starter or the countries concerned made it clear they weren't interested. Of course that failure could never be reported.

[Kalbo]

Lets just say that XYZ is a serious crime in NZ, but is perfectly legal in Thailand. Johnny Kiwi commits XYZ in NZ and flees the country to Thailand.

NZ wants Johnny back to face trial.

Should Thailand help NZ and hand Johnny over?

Extradition is a bit of a complicated process and is usually only possible if the crime committed is a crime in both countries. Some examples of this would be murder or kidnapping.

However, as was seen in the UK case when Thailand requested extradition of a Thai who has naturalized UK citizenship, the UK responded by saying that since there is no

lese majeste crime in the UK, there are no grounds to extradite the subject to Thailand.

[Seastallion]

Lets just say that XYZ is a serious crime in NZ, but is perfectly legal in Thailand. Johnny Kiwi commits XYZ in NZ and flees the country to Thailand.

NZ wants Johnny back to face trial.

Should Thailand help NZ and hand Johnny over?

Extradition is a bit of a complicated process and is usually only possible if the crime committed is a crime in both countries. Some examples of this would be murder or kidnapping.

However, as was seen in the UK case when Thailand requested extradition of a Thai who has naturalized UK citizenship, the UK responded by saying that since there is no

lese majeste crime in the UK, there are no grounds to extradite the subject to Thailand.

Not to stray off topic, this is just an example I'm using to question what you have said (although I think you may be right)

What Julian Assange is accused of in Sweden is not a crime in the UK (some odd twist on rape).....so why is Assange holed up unless he knows the UK will grant extradition?

[LannaGuy]

LM is built on fear, repression and control is as simple as that

[Srikcir]

The Junta had again been campaigning largely with Asia-Pacific nations to get on the UN Human Rights Commission, having lost last year's UN Assembly vote. But the Junta's continued pressure democratic governments to extradite Thais for alleged lese majeste offenses just belies its sincereity for human rights.

Sometimes misplaced diplomacy by a nation is a benefit for others.

[jayboy]

I sincerely hope N.Z. has the necessary balls to tell this regime where they can stick their archaic and repressive law......................

Some of the LM is something that would be highly illegal in every country....not only if it is about the King/President....I let it to your imagination what that might be.

But I have no idea what it was in this case. Other cases are known...

Not in my home country.

In the US, you can insult the head of State (the President) in the most explicit terms, 24 hours a day.

The repercussion will be that your friends may abandon you as a "whack job"; but there is no law against it as long as you do not make threats of violence.

Fortunately there is absolutely no comparison between Barack Obama and the most loved man in this country.

The Thais have their laws and the United States and United Kingdom etc, have theirs. End of.

It's always comical when somebody thinks - in this case absurdly - that by completing a comment with the words "End of" they are somehow scoring an irrefutable and final debating point.

End of

[mike324]

Singapore has some pretty tough laws against people criticizing the head of state and government. I wonder what people's views are regarding to that.

[glenmohr]

I see this arose from a speech from a red stage in 2013.

Lets hope they start going carefully through all the speeches from various red stages and activating the stalled cases against all the red leaders who implicated themselves with their hate and violence filled speeches when they thought they were invincible and untouchable.

What a delightful person you are.

To Robby,

You hint that the NZ suffix to your name indicates something.

I am still guessing.

You cannot come from NZ, because that is my home, it is the land of the free and the letter I got from the Rt Hon Murray McCully, NZ Foreign Minister,right after the latest coup made it clear that the Thai Ambassador in Wellington had been summonsed and told in no uncertain terms what my country's position was and is.

I do not know your age but if you have ever been to NZ you may be old enough to recall that the country had what is now called a revolution in the election of the Govt. of David Lange. I stood for parliament in that election of 1984 which resulted in a massive range of freedoms being introduced. All Kiwis are proud of what we did back then in the removal of the Muldoon era.

I have to tell you that the peoples of NZ stand totally opposed to your political philosophy, which I guess is the reason you do not try to live there. Misfit?

A few years ago, a Maori political activist threw a wet T shirt at and struck Queen Elizabeth, Queen of NZ. Although the Queen was not particularly amused, that activist did about 7 days in jail for assault. No, we do not have an LM law in NZ that you worship here. Neither do we react unreasonably when someone has a political view different to our own, we usually try to settle it over a few beers.

[joebrown]

The law is the law...until it's changed. This numbnuts knew the LM law existed but still broke that law. If he gets sent back to LOS it's tough luck for him.

What I can't understand is.....why the he11 did he pick NZ??? Of all the countries in the world......NEW ZEALAND!

I'm not a NewZealander, but I'm amazed by your apparent distaste for the country. I've never heard anyone say a bad word about NZ until I read your post.

Please enlighten the rest of us TVF members as to the reason for your obvious dislike for the country.

BTW, what does the "BS' in 'BSJ' stand for?

[Acharn]

Any western country will hopefully tell the powers here to take their draconian law and stuff it!!

Well, it kind of depends, doesn't it? Usually an extradition treaty specifies that you can't extradite somebody for just any claimed violation. Most often the person must be accused of something that is a crime in the country where he's located. My favorite example is Rakesh Saxena who fled to Canada. For many reasons, including the incompetence of the Thai prosecutor's office and what I believe was blatant corruption in the Canadian government, it took something like ten years to get him back here for prosecution. They succeeded in the end, because what he was accused of was embezzlement and fraud against a bank, which are also crimes in Canada. I don't remember the details, but there's a Thai woman named Rose in England who is also accused of lese majeste, and the English court refused to extradite her because what she is accused of is not a crime in England. Indeed, speaking critically of the monarch is somewhat of a national sport in England. So I will be interested in seeing how the court in New Zealand rules on this.

[glenmohr]

Singapore has some pretty tough laws against people criticizing the head of state and government. I wonder what people's views are regarding to that.

Yes Mike,but they do balance that somewhat by having a law that says all citizens are subject to the same set of laws.

[captspectre]

Any western country will hopefully tell the powers here to take their draconian law and stuff it!!

just shows how arrogant this "current" government is to try to extradite a person for practicing "free" speech" don't think new zealand will have any part of it.

[Acharn]

I sincerely hope N.Z. has the necessary balls to tell this regime where they can stick their archaic and repressive law......................

Some of the LM is something that would be highly illegal in every country....not only if it is about the King/President....I let it to your imagination what that might be.

But I have no idea what it was in this case. Other cases are known...

Aw, come on, tell us, tell us. I know something about the LM law before the 2006 coup, I'm not so sure of the details of the current law. What in there is common to every country? I've wracked my brain and can't guess what you mean.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Acharn

[The Deerhunter]

I mean they act as if it was a real crime with a real victim who actually cared. I do not know what he said but unless it was plausible threats of real violence than it would likely be like water off a duck's back to most of the people concerned. Most but not every Thai loves the institution and individuals concerned and every one knows that. It is time this anachronistic law was put to bed.

[Acharn]

I mean they act as if it was a real crime with a real victim who actually cared. I do not know what he said but unless it was plausible threats of real violence than it would likely be like water off a duck's back to most of the people concerned. Most but not every Thai loves the institution and individuals concerned and every one knows that. It is time this anachronistic law was put to bed.

Which is something His Majesty has requested in the past, to no avail.

[glenmohr]

But for some reason, they are unable to extradite from Singapore.

Funny that, isn't it.

Show some compassion, poor chaps still got a bad cold.

And repairs to a damaged Ferrari can take many years, be patient, he is.

[kaorop]

I see this arose from a speech from a red stage in 2013.

Lets hope they start going carefully through all the speeches from various red stages and activating the stalled cases against all the red leaders who implicated themselves with their hate and violence filled speeches when they thought they were invincible and untouchable.

You must be fluent in Thai to have understood what was said, were you there in the crowd to hear them first hand to?

Or are you just regurgitating?

[SuwadeeS]

Stone age!!!