Valve failure (I suspect) on recent head-gasket job

[ClareQuilty]

My '93 Honda Civic, which some may remember recently had a new head gasket after an overheating episode, ran well for a few weeks, but now will barely start and won't move. It won't idle, and will only run if you gas it to between 2,000-3,000 rpms. Needless to say I'm not running it, but what I suspect is some kind of valve failure.

I'm guessing that either a valve was burnt during the overheating before the head-gasket replacement, or that the 're-seating' of the valves after that repair was faulty. To be fair the son of my mechanic suggested installing new valves, but that would have added about 12,000 more to the already mind-boggling 14,000 baht cost of the head-gasket job.

Don't know what to do now, wondering if there are second hand Honda motors available the way there are with Toyota. One things for sure, these Honda's are incredibly troublesome machines, don't know how they got such a good rep. In a side story, a Thai friend of mine confided in me just yesterday that he'd replaced his '99 Honda City engine (a somewhat similar engine I think) recently for 60,000 baht after driving the car in a flood (I'm almost certain he was cheated).

[IMHO]

Sorry, I can't help much with this particular fault, but after seeing all the posts you've made over the years with breaking down cars, I have to ask: just how often do your cars actually work, and how much do you send on average each year fixing them?

Edited June 21, 2015 by IMHO

[Don Mega]

have you performed a compression test on it to confirm it is a munted valve ?

[DavisH]

60K is way over the top for a honda city 1.5 engine. You friend got shafted. Personally I'd sell this car as soon as you can; it seems more problem than it's worth. Can you qualify for a loan at all? You can get practically new eco cars for about 300K now. The value of old hondas has fallen through the floor now because there are many new cheap cars in the market. I've no idea about the issue with your car, suffice to say the previous owner neglected it, especially fluid changes. Good luck with it.

[fredob43]

Like others I think you should dump it ASAP.

But before you do as D/M suggested get a compression test that'll tell you lots. Could even be the new head gasket has blown. Head buggered who knows.

Unlike you my chum has a relatively new Civic only done 60th always serviced before time. He's had no end of trouble from new AirCon: rear wheel bearings brakes you name it he's had it but at least the engine is still going. Now I have just heard the gearbox started playing up on the way up from BKK last week.

When you settle for a new/used limo suggest you go for a diesel big engine lump, they seem to go on forever on Thai crappy roads. Civic are just not good enough for the job.

Edited June 22, 2015 by fredob43

[guzzi850m2]

Oh no, you sure as hell don't have much luck with your aging sedan cars

You seems to be on a very very tight budget so perhaps do as the Thais when they realize the running cost of a 4 wheeler is way over their budget, get rid of the car(s) and run a local made scooter?

A new honda wave will get you app 50 km down to road on 1 lit of petrol and it's even E10 91.

[WarpSpeed]

I'm speechless Clare, I know you came her for advice and not to get lectures but the advice was already given previously so now that's all that's left. It wasn't just the mechanics son that advised you to spend a little more to have the job done right and not cut corners, but once you fixed it I would have sold it on. Have it compression checked and maybe diagnosed first before considering a new engine but if it is a valve it's still going to be much cheaper to get a used head, have it reconditioned properly this time and then once repaired sell it on this time..

Do you hear any top end valve clatter when it runs? Not likely you burned a valve due to the previous overheating that wouldn't have shown up already previously. Also not too often you burn a valve that way, most often it happens when the engine runs too lean which was also discussed previously. Generally Honda's are quite durable but they're still machines that require care, you have to be fair here, this car has been abused recently and probably for a while prior to your ownership based on the history given so far and it has not had proper repairs done since then either so it has really been the owner(s) fault more then the cars IMO, sorry that stings but it's honest and factual. Lessons learned, it's better to wait and get it done properly and completely then to rush a cheap job and get stuck paying more to have it repaired repeatedly the wrong way. This is a spare car for you as I understand it, it could have waited until you had enough to repair it properly IMO, but that's what it is, MO.

[JAS21]

CQ ... stop buying problems.

My wife bought this new 20 years ago, in the last 12 months its had a complete top end overhaul, all new struts and shocks and recently a new air con unit and it's fitted with an upmarket LPG system. We have just taken delivery of a Fiesta Ecoboost so now it's surplus to requirements ... no offence ... I would normally warranty it but you seem to be a bit of a Jonah ...

Edit ... the radio/tape player doesn't work .... If you don't know what it is ... it's a Mazda Lantis.

Edited June 22, 2015 by JAS21

[casualbiker]

Jas21.. I'll give ya 25k baht for it.. No warranty required!

[fredob43]

It could be something simple like Plugs HT leads who knows, you'll just have to start at the least expensive pressure test and work your way up, or down as the case maybe.

[stingray]

60K is way over the top for a honda city 1.5 engine. You friend got shafted. Personally I'd sell this car as soon as you can; it seems more problem than it's worth. Can you qualify for a loan at all? You can get practically new eco cars for about 300K now. The value of old hondas has fallen through the floor now because there are many new cheap cars in the market. I've no idea about the issue with your car, suffice to say the previous owner neglected it, especially fluid changes. Good luck with it.

300'k for a new eco car? where? A new Honda City cost at leastt 700'k

[casualbiker]

60K is way over the top for a honda city 1.5 engine. You friend got shafted. Personally I'd sell this car as soon as you can; it seems more problem than it's worth. Can you qualify for a loan at all? You can get practically new eco cars for about 300K now. The value of old hondas has fallen through the floor now because there are many new cheap cars in the market. I've no idea about the issue with your car, suffice to say the previous owner neglected it, especially fluid changes. Good luck with it.

300'k for a new eco car? where? A new Honda City cost at leastt 700'k

Operative word " practically " new meaning nearly new!

Honda City is not an Eco car. Mitsubishi Mirage, Honda Brio etc are!

Edited June 22, 2015 by casualbiker

[ClareQuilty]

60K is way over the top for a honda city 1.5 engine. You friend got shafted. Personally I'd sell this car as soon as you can; it seems more problem than it's worth. Can you qualify for a loan at all? You can get practically new eco cars for about 300K now.

Well I can't 'qualify for a loan' - I'm a foreigner. I do have loans on my two cars at present, but they're from a rich Thai friend - personal connection. And at 1% monthly interest I might add.

By the way guys, I've had very good luck over the last 6 years or so with my old Toyota Ke70 - so I don't think its true to say I've had bad luck. That old car - being a simple push-rod cast iron design - only cost around 2,000-3,000 per year in repairs on average. Alas I've sold it on now (30,000 baht), but to be fair it wasn't really a super-useable car: it wasn't at all comfortable for long trips, the air was only just barely adequate, etc. Both the Soluna that I replaced it with and this Civic are far more 'overall useful' cars. Plus to all appearances the Soluna's as reliable as the old Corolla.

About this Honda, alas when I had the head-gasket done I could not afford new valves, and in any case perhaps it was just that they were 're-seated' imprecisely.

I certainly would sell this car on, but 1) obviously there won't be any buyers when its broken, and 2) I owe the 45,000 baht car loan on it, so can't sell till that's paid off - in about 20 more months.

[casualbiker]

^^^^ I have a car loan on a Mitsubishi Mirage. Don't talk rubbish about foreigners not being able to get a loan.. Oh and mines 3.8% per year.

[ClareQuilty]

And the old reliable, though it looked much worse by the time I sold it:

Edited June 22, 2015 by ClareQuilty

[casualbiker]

^^^^ I have a car loan on a Mitsubishi Mirage. Don't talk rubbish about foreigners not being able to get a loan.. Oh and mines 3.8% per year.

Sure. But I have no cosigner.

Your rich "friend"?

Or just put enough deposit down.

[ClareQuilty]

have you performed a compression test on it to confirm it is a munted valve ?

No, no, I haven't even had it towed into the shop yet. It just happened a couple of days ago. I may get it towed tomorrow or the next day if I have time. Its hard to get together with the repair shop due to all my classes.

The valve diagnosis is just my best guess, as the symptoms precisely conform to what is listed online as the symptoms of valve failure, and also because valve failure is extremely common after the type of problems and repairs I just recently had.

[ClareQuilty]

Do you hear any top end valve clatter when it runs? Not likely you burned a valve due to the previous overheating that wouldn't have shown up already previously.

There is zero top end valve clatter, WarpSpeed. So, yes perhaps its not the valves at all, but just the head gasket has failed.

[WarpSpeed]

I agree with T/A, you may not hear a valve noise, but to my understanding you had the head shaved the second time so it shouldn;t be warped anymore, I have to believe having been running ok previously it is not a burned valve from the previous over heating, but like some others have said it may be something secondary like an electrical issue?

[ClareQuilty]

My mechanic came and got the car today- he managed to drive it rather than tow it. By dint of removing spark plug wired he determined that one cylinder wasn't functioning, 3 were. So we'll see, maybe tomorrow.

[ClareQuilty]

Wow, got the car back already, just a 300 baht charge for the rescue and tinkering - no new parts. He said the automatic choke went out. Rather than replace it, he said he 'made it so it runs without automatic choke'. I have to admit it does run fine now, but without the high idle at start-up which is normal, but I'm a little worried the lack of the choke will be problematic in Isaan in December and January.

[Tywais]

Wow, got the car back already, just a 300 baht charge for the rescue and tinkering - no new parts. He said the automatic choke went out. Rather than replace it, he said he 'made it so it runs without automatic choke'. I have to admit it does run fine now, but without the high idle at start-up which is normal, but I'm a little worried the lack of the choke will be problematic in Isaan in December and January.

You could always add one of these. An automatic choke, new or 2nd hand, should be pretty cheap. They're not complex devices.

[Jessi]

Just give the engine a little time to warm up & good luck.

Auto chokes are a pain in the butt.

[WarpSpeed]

Good to hear Clare it was something so simple, I was dubious about it being a valve, the symptoms and timing just wasn't there, it made no sense.

[Crossy]

Wow, got the car back already, just a 300 baht charge for the rescue and tinkering - no new parts. He said the automatic choke went out. Rather than replace it, he said he 'made it so it runs without automatic choke'. I have to admit it does run fine now, but without the high idle at start-up which is normal, but I'm a little worried the lack of the choke will be problematic in Isaan in December and January.

I used to start my old Viva in the UK all year with no functioning choke. Three pumps on the throttle before turning the key and away it went (it had an accelerator pump which I suspect most carburettor engines have), warm up for a couple of mins and you're good to go.

[Lancashirelad]

Just caught up with this thread. I only get the latest posts update email once a week. I too thought it didn't sound like a valve problem. Its rare more than one valve fails at once (excepting bending damage caused by a snapped timing belt on some engine designs). If one valve fails usually the engine will run ok but will missfire when idling, but come on to all cylinders once revved.

I think Claire knows a little more about cars than some here give him (her?) credit for.

I'm a tad confused though, thought you had a blue car just been in the paint shop?

Old motors are cheap to buy meaning not a big outlay up front, but require more maintenance then newer vehicles.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Lancashirelad

[WarpSpeed]

He has 2 cars now Lad, a Greenish Honda and Blue Yota I think I recall?.

Edited June 29, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[Ace of Pop]

Allways read the Posts,i then realize how lucky i am.

[ClareQuilty]

The car's been alright now for a while, even drove it a couple hours away a few times. Really it operates just fine once it gets warmed up, but between the lack of an automatic choke and no thermostat, it doesn't run that great for the first 5 minutes or so.

Basically you have to sit there and press the accelerator to about 1,500 rpm for a couple minutes before you can take off confidently. I think the idle is set really low as well, no idea why - maybe the same problem that occasioned the choke not working? I'll take it in next week to see if he can set the idle a bit higher, that might help.

One other small issue - the A/C fan will sometimes come on immediately, while about 25% of the time there's a long and irritating delay before it starts blowing. On hot days a 5 minute fan delay is very annoying.

[arthurwait]

Good to hear it's working.

Could the carb not be overhauled, or pick up another secondhand one , overhaul it and then swap then ?

Do you mean the fan itself doesn't come on sometimes or that it doesn't blow cold air at first ? Or do you mean the AC compressor/pump.