Water level at Chao Phraya dam drops to critical point

[webfact]

Water level at Chao Phraya dam drops to critical point



BANGKOK: -- The water level at the Chao Phraya dam has recently reached the critical point for the first time in 30 years because farmers in the upper part of the dam have stepped up storing more water for use.

Inspection of the water situation in the Chao Phraya dam at Tambon Bang Luang, Sappaya district of Chainat at 3.3.0 pm on Sunday shows water is being released downstream at a rate of 75 cubic metre per second to push back the invasion of sea water. Howerever, the water level above the dam has quickly decreased to 14 metrres from 14.14 metre which is regarded as the lowest in 30 years.

Mr Aekkasit Sakthanaporn, director of the Chao Phraya dam, said that in the past week the water level at the dam has dropped by an average of 10 centimetres per day while the amount of water released downstream remains unchanged.

Investigation shows that farmers have stealthily installed water pumps to pump water from the dam at more than 90 locations along the Chao Phraya river.

Mr Aekkasit predicted that the water at the dam would last for 30 days if there are no rains in the foreseeable future. He urged farmers not to grow their rice crops now because there would not be water for the rice crops.

(Photo : Thai PBS File)

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/water-level-at-chao-phraya-dam-drops-to-critical-point


-- Thai PBS 2015-06-22

[EricBerg]

"Investigation shows that farmers have stealthily installed water pumps to pump water from the dam at more than 90 locations along the Chao Phraya river."

One could consider removing those stealthily installed pumps and punishing those stealthily pump installing farmers.

Hope the Chao Phraya dinnercruise is still on...

[mikemac]

Good point Eric, there is no use having water restrictions if people are just going to steal the water from the dams and rivers.

And I agree with you regarding the water thieves, I would like to see the guilty pumps confiscated and the farmers' asses hung out to dry, so to speak.

Too many people are blaming past and present governments for this water problem, but it is a weather phenomenon. I suppose preparing for it is another thing but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture.

And congrats Eric for making post #1 !

[dcutman]

"Investigation shows that farmers have stealthily installed water pumps to pump water from the dam at more than 90 locations along the Chao Phraya river."

One could consider removing those stealthily installed pumps and punishing those stealthily pump installing farmers.

Hope the Chao Phraya dinnercruise is still on...

Not sure how anyone located the stealthy pumps. They are almost invisible.

ALL HANDS TO THE PUMPS Farmers from Suphan Buri

[soalbundy]

I cant imagine why the farmers even bother to grow rice considering the lousy price that they get for it

[Ricardo]

"Investigation shows that farmers have stealthily installed water pumps to pump water from the dam at more than 90 locations along the Chao Phraya river."

One could consider removing those stealthily installed pumps and punishing those stealthily pump installing farmers.

Hope the Chao Phraya dinnercruise is still on...

Perhaps these stealth-pumps might be seized & moved to Bangkok, where the annual flood-season will start shortly, they might do some good down there ?

[Bob12345]

"Investigation shows that farmers have stealthily installed water pumps to pump water from the dam at more than 90 locations along the Chao Phraya river."

One could consider removing those stealthily installed pumps and punishing those stealthily pump installing farmers.

Hope the Chao Phraya dinnercruise is still on...

Not sure how anyone located the stealthy pumps. They are almost invisible.

ALL HANDS TO THE PUMPS Farmers from Suphan Buri

It can still be stealthily if you cover the local BIB's view by waving some hundred baht bills in front of his eyes.

[bangon04]

I cant imagine why the farmers even bother to grow rice considering the lousy price that they get for it

oh come on... surely you know that Subsistence farming Sufficiency Economy is one of the pillars of Thainess....

[FangFerang]

The dam removed the farmer's ability to irrigate their crops so the Bangkok elites can have dinner cruises and lots of water. I find it very hard to feel like the farmers should be punished for using what is public property.

And why, oh why, isn't anyone restricting or limiting the public water being bottled, or the water being carbonated? Why? The owners of those companies are either part of or supported by the junta -- that's why. They have money and the farmers do not.

[Suradit69]

Good point Eric, there is no use having water restrictions if people are just going to steal the water from the dams and rivers.

And I agree with you regarding the water thieves, I would like to see the guilty pumps confiscated and the farmers' asses hung out to dry, so to speak.

Too many people are blaming past and present governments for this water problem, but it is a weather phenomenon. I suppose preparing for it is another thing but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture.

And congrats Eric for making post #1 !

"but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture."

Considering the disastrous mess in the Eurozone (who knew Greece was been on the verge of bankruptcy for 200 years), the collapsing infrastructure in the US, the devastating drought in California where water storage systems haven't been improved in 30 years, the lack of financial or military planning that went into the invasion of Iraq ... and the list goes on and on ... you really have to be pretty pompous to say something like "looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture."

[Pib]

I do know that one of my neighbor's last week blamed no water pressure in the moobaan for 8 hours one day on low water level in the dam...I told her no, that was due to the broke water main in the moobaan which was repaired before nightfall. So funny...she really thought the low water level in the dam was the cause for no water on that day...and she even drove by the spot where the water company was digging up and replacing the busted main line but she didn't have a clue what they were doing....all she knew was the news about low water level in the dam therefore that must have been the reason for no water...and this nice lady is educated and has plenty of money.

[lockman]

I wonder if anyone else questions why so much fresh water is sent downstream to "hold back" sea water maybe build another dam or gate for that vs throwing away, I mean why bother to use the water to grow food or make money.

[mikemac]

How the heck do those pumps work ? It looks like an accident waiting to happen !

[Pib]

How the heck do those pumps work ? It looks like an accident waiting to happen !

It's just an "axial flow pump." Notice the tractors with long drive shafts leading down to/powering the pump propeller. Kinda like below image that shows such a pump with a motor mounted on it providing the power, but they also come without a motor so you can power it with a tractor shaft, your own motor setup, etc.

[elgordo38]

Good point Eric, there is no use having water restrictions if people are just going to steal the water from the dams and rivers.

And I agree with you regarding the water thieves, I would like to see the guilty pumps confiscated and the farmers' asses hung out to dry, so to speak.

Too many people are blaming past and present governments for this water problem, but it is a weather phenomenon. I suppose preparing for it is another thing but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture.

And congrats Eric for making post #1 !

"but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture."

Considering the disastrous mess in the Eurozone (who knew Greece was been on the verge of bankruptcy for 200 years), the collapsing infrastructure in the US, the devastating drought in California where water storage systems haven't been improved in 30 years, the lack of financial or military planning that went into the invasion of Iraq ... and the list goes on and on ... you really have to be pretty pompous to say something like "looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture."

Build more sky scraper condo's in Bangkok that will really help soak up the water and help the land sink faster. Americans use on average 400 gallons per person per day and I think it is higher here as people shower more often and water conservation is not high on the list of priorities. I have not seen one water saver toilet here. I often wonder if the buyers of these boxes in a building ever worry about where their water will come from for the next decade or where their poop and pee will go. As a lot of electric here is hydro electric I would wonder about having electric for the next decade. If the bible is right we are just starting into the 7 lean mean years.

[elgordo38]

How the heck do those pumps work ? It looks like an accident waiting to happen !

I wonder how much water is lost to aging infrastructure breaking down. I seldom see geysers spouting out water and ponds on the streets here in Chiang Mai. I have read articles here from some posters complaining that water leaks were left unrepaired for months. In the USA 7 billion gallons a day is lost to leaking pipes.

[mikemac]

The dam removed the farmer's ability to irrigate their crops so the Bangkok elites can have dinner cruises and lots of water. I find it very hard to feel like the farmers should be punished for using what is public property.

And why, oh why, isn't anyone restricting or limiting the public water being bottled, or the water being carbonated? Why? The owners of those companies are either part of or supported by the junta -- that's why. They have money and the farmers do not.

Well Fang, that post confirms what I have thought all along, that you are just taking the piss and your comments are devoid of any credibility.

You cannot in your wildest dreams think for one moment that your opinions will be taken seriously posting "stuff" like that.

The few posters on this forum who are genuine red and/or PTP and/or anti-junta aligned must cringe when they read some of your posts.

Enough is enough, take the forum seriously or go find another one to annoy.

Edited June 22, 2015 by mikemac

[mikemac]

Good point Eric, there is no use having water restrictions if people are just going to steal the water from the dams and rivers.

And I agree with you regarding the water thieves, I would like to see the guilty pumps confiscated and the farmers' asses hung out to dry, so to speak.

Too many people are blaming past and present governments for this water problem, but it is a weather phenomenon. I suppose preparing for it is another thing but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture.

And congrats Eric for making post #1 !

"but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture."

Considering the disastrous mess in the Eurozone (who knew Greece was been on the verge of bankruptcy for 200 years), the collapsing infrastructure in the US, the devastating drought in California where water storage systems haven't been improved in 30 years, the lack of financial or military planning that went into the invasion of Iraq ... and the list goes on and on ... you really have to be pretty pompous to say something like "looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture."

Sorry if I offended you and my comment was not meant to come across as pompous. I thought it was an accurate description of the way Thai people look at life, they live for today and not tomorrow.

Was not comparing the Thai way of thinking to that of the Greeks, or the Americans as they had nothing to do with the op.

[Robby nz]

Good point Eric, there is no use having water restrictions if people are just going to steal the water from the dams and rivers.

And I agree with you regarding the water thieves, I would like to see the guilty pumps confiscated and the farmers' asses hung out to dry, so to speak.

Too many people are blaming past and present governments for this water problem, but it is a weather phenomenon. I suppose preparing for it is another thing but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture.

And congrats Eric for making post #1 !

You have that one very wrong Mike. Who do you think this water belongs to that you accuse the farmers of stealing it ? They have as much right to the water as anyone else, in fact more right as they have a traditional use behind them

Most of them in the lower Chao Phraya river basin have had no income this year as they have waited while they were advised not to plant a second crop (although they didn't have to be told as they knew very well there was no water) Which means they have not used the water before now, so it is not them that has lowered the dam levels. Now they need to plant their main crop and the water is there for them to do so but they are being told not to use it.

I don't see any of the suits who are telling them not to plant or use the water offering to forego their wages and donate to farmers who they are suggesting go without income.

Most are deep in debt from what has gone before and desperately need to plant a crop to get enough to pay interest on loans and feed their families.

And most have no alternatives. different crops need different machinery and a market neither of which is available to most. They also have a longer lead in time from planting to harvest, if everyone grows corn or vegetables it will flood the market dropping prices and stuff things up for everyone.

Your post regarding pumps shows you level of knowledge of rice farming so please in future do some research before posting and condemning.

[dcutman]

Good point Eric, there is no use having water restrictions if people are just going to steal the water from the dams and rivers.

And I agree with you regarding the water thieves, I would like to see the guilty pumps confiscated and the farmers' asses hung out to dry, so to speak.

Too many people are blaming past and present governments for this water problem, but it is a weather phenomenon. I suppose preparing for it is another thing but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture.

And congrats Eric for making post #1 !

You have that one very wrong Mike. Who do you think this water belongs to that you accuse the farmers of stealing it ? They have as much right to the water as anyone else, in fact more right as they have a traditional use behind them

Most of them in the lower Chao Phraya river basin have had no income this year as they have waited while they were advised not to plant a second crop (although they didn't have to be told as they knew very well there was no water) Which means they have not used the water before now, so it is not them that has lowered the dam levels. Now they need to plant their main crop and the water is there for them to do so but they are being told not to use it.

I don't see any of the suits who are telling them not to plant or use the water offering to forego their wages and donate to farmers who they are suggesting go without income.

Most are deep in debt from what has gone before and desperately need to plant a crop to get enough to pay interest on loans and feed their families.

And most have no alternatives. different crops need different machinery and a market neither of which is available to most. They also have a longer lead in time from planting to harvest, if everyone grows corn or vegetables it will flood the market dropping prices and stuff things up for everyone.

Your post regarding pumps shows you level of knowledge of rice farming so please in future do some research before posting and condemning.

Robby not sure you are aware of simple economics, or how it works. Obviously not, but here is a lesson on not what to do in farming.

If the farmers cost to produce rice is more than the market is will to pay for that rice, means farmers are loosing money planting rice.

Not only are they planting rice for a loss but they are using 5000 L of water per kg to produce that rice.

So in the future you should do some research before posting.

Currently, the price of 15 percent water content rice is in the range of 7,500 - 7,700 baht per ton, down from the previous 8,000 - 8,500 baht per ton. Farmers' average selling price is around 6,700 - 7,000 baht per ton.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/833431-low-thai-rice-price-may-force-rice-millers-to-shutdown-operations/

The current rice price is as low as 4,000 Thb and 6,000 Thb per ton which means that the farmers have sold their rice at a loss. The average production cost per ton was at approximately 7,000 Thb per ton.

http://nsnbc.me/2014/06/07/thailand-military-government-rice-farmers-discuss-substitution-shinawatras-collapsed-rice-scheme/

Edited June 22, 2015 by dcutman

[Ricardo]

The dam removed the farmer's ability to irrigate their crops so the Bangkok elites can have dinner cruises and lots of water. I find it very hard to feel like the farmers should be punished for using what is public property.

And why, oh why, isn't anyone restricting or limiting the public water being bottled, or the water being carbonated? Why? The owners of those companies are either part of or supported by the junta -- that's why. They have money and the farmers do not.

If the flow of the river falls too low, then there will surely be salt-water incursion from the sea and up the river, which would eventually have dire consequences for the drinking-water supply of 8 million people, most of whom are not your "Bangkok elites" who you think spend their lives on dinner-cruises, but just ordinary working-people.

And don't most dams enable controlled-irrigation downstream, and mitigate floods and damage to crops by partly-controlling the flow of the river, when rainfall is high ?

IMO the main factor currently reducing farmers' ability to irrigate crops is the low rainfall, not some wicked plot by the junta, or bottlers of soft-drinks & drinking-water.

[Robby nz]

Good point Eric, there is no use having water restrictions if people are just going to steal the water from the dams and rivers.

And I agree with you regarding the water thieves, I would like to see the guilty pumps confiscated and the farmers' asses hung out to dry, so to speak.

Too many people are blaming past and present governments for this water problem, but it is a weather phenomenon. I suppose preparing for it is another thing but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture.

And congrats Eric for making post #1 !

You have that one very wrong Mike. Who do you think this water belongs to that you accuse the farmers of stealing it ? They have as much right to the water as anyone else, in fact more right as they have a traditional use behind them

Most of them in the lower Chao Phraya river basin have had no income this year as they have waited while they were advised not to plant a second crop (although they didn't have to be told as they knew very well there was no water) Which means they have not used the water before now, so it is not them that has lowered the dam levels. Now they need to plant their main crop and the water is there for them to do so but they are being told not to use it.

I don't see any of the suits who are telling them not to plant or use the water offering to forego their wages and donate to farmers who they are suggesting go without income.

Most are deep in debt from what has gone before and desperately need to plant a crop to get enough to pay interest on loans and feed their families.

And most have no alternatives. different crops need different machinery and a market neither of which is available to most. They also have a longer lead in time from planting to harvest, if everyone grows corn or vegetables it will flood the market dropping prices and stuff things up for everyone.

Your post regarding pumps shows you level of knowledge of rice farming so please in future do some research before posting and condemning.

Robby not sure you are aware of simple economics, or how it works. Obviously not, but here is a lesson on not what to do in farming.

If the farmers cost to produce rice is more than the market is will to pay for that rice, means farmers are loosing money planting rice.

Not only are they planting rice for a loss but they are using 5000 L of water per kg to produce that rice.

So in the future you should do some research before posting.

Currently, the price of 15 percent water content rice is in the range of 7,500 - 7,700 baht per ton, down from the previous 8,000 - 8,500 baht per ton. Farmers' average selling price is around 6,700 - 7,000 baht per ton.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/833431-low-thai-rice-price-may-force-rice-millers-to-shutdown-operations/

The current rice price is as low as 4,000 Thb and 6,000 Thb per ton which means that the farmers have sold their rice at a loss. The average production cost per ton was at approximately 7,000 Thb per ton.

http://nsnbc.me/2014/06/07/thailand-military-government-rice-farmers-discuss-substitution-shinawatras-collapsed-rice-scheme/

I don't know where you get this 5000ltre of water per KG but from what I see of rice farmers managing the water they use and reuse it has to be very far from the truth. I live in a rice farming area and have watched successive crops through several seasons.

Economic theory is great but unfortunately farmers cant eat it. According to theory farmers should sit at home with their families and starve while they wait for those they have been forced into debt to, to arrive and evict them from their land.

Can you and the economists not understand that many if not most will be growing rice for their own consumption. During the pledging those who took part in the scheme (about 1/3rd of all rice farmers) sold all the rice they could produce. Things are different now and they must grow to feed themselves first then sell what is surplice. Even if they are only making a small profit on what they sell it will still be enough to add something to the rice they have stored and pay some of the interest on loans to keep the creditors from taking their land.

They also have ways of cutting costs which they will be doing. Farmers are not the dumb peasants some would like to make them out as. Perhaps you are the one who should learn a little about rice farming before posting on the subject.

[DrTuner]

Seawater invasion? So shit will flow upstream, eh?

[bannork]

As the water that can be released from the dams upstream of Bangkok decreases, so the salt water of high tides advances up the Chao Phraya, rendering agriculture useless in the areas around Bangkok.

Will production of drinking water be affected too, and finally water supplies to Bangkok rationed ,limiting the use of toilets and showers to an hour or two a day?

7 million people thirsty with dirty smelly clothes and needing a shower.

Bangkokians must pray พระสยามเทวาธิราช the god believed to oversee Thailand, will once again come to the rescue.

[smutcakes]

Good point Eric, there is no use having water restrictions if people are just going to steal the water from the dams and rivers.

And I agree with you regarding the water thieves, I would like to see the guilty pumps confiscated and the farmers' asses hung out to dry, so to speak.

Too many people are blaming past and present governments for this water problem, but it is a weather phenomenon. I suppose preparing for it is another thing but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture.

And congrats Eric for making post #1 !

Irony alert!!!!

[dcutman]

Good point Eric, there is no use having water restrictions if people are just going to steal the water from the dams and rivers.

And I agree with you regarding the water thieves, I would like to see the guilty pumps confiscated and the farmers' asses hung out to dry, so to speak.

Too many people are blaming past and present governments for this water problem, but it is a weather phenomenon. I suppose preparing for it is another thing but looking ahead and making preparations is not a strong point in the Thai culture.

And congrats Eric for making post #1 !

You have that one very wrong Mike. Who do you think this water belongs to that you accuse the farmers of stealing it ? They have as much right to the water as anyone else, in fact more right as they have a traditional use behind them

Most of them in the lower Chao Phraya river basin have had no income this year as they have waited while they were advised not to plant a second crop (although they didn't have to be told as they knew very well there was no water) Which means they have not used the water before now, so it is not them that has lowered the dam levels. Now they need to plant their main crop and the water is there for them to do so but they are being told not to use it.

I don't see any of the suits who are telling them not to plant or use the water offering to forego their wages and donate to farmers who they are suggesting go without income.

Most are deep in debt from what has gone before and desperately need to plant a crop to get enough to pay interest on loans and feed their families.

And most have no alternatives. different crops need different machinery and a market neither of which is available to most. They also have a longer lead in time from planting to harvest, if everyone grows corn or vegetables it will flood the market dropping prices and stuff things up for everyone.

Your post regarding pumps shows you level of knowledge of rice farming so please in future do some research before posting and condemning.

Robby not sure you are aware of simple economics, or how it works. Obviously not, but here is a lesson on not what to do in farming.

If the farmers cost to produce rice is more than the market is will to pay for that rice, means farmers are loosing money planting rice.

Not only are they planting rice for a loss but they are using 5000 L of water per kg to produce that rice.

So in the future you should do some research before posting.

Currently, the price of 15 percent water content rice is in the range of 7,500 - 7,700 baht per ton, down from the previous 8,000 - 8,500 baht per ton. Farmers' average selling price is around 6,700 - 7,000 baht per ton.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/833431-low-thai-rice-price-may-force-rice-millers-to-shutdown-operations/

The current rice price is as low as 4,000 Thb and 6,000 Thb per ton which means that the farmers have sold their rice at a loss. The average production cost per ton was at approximately 7,000 Thb per ton.

http://nsnbc.me/2014/06/07/thailand-military-government-rice-farmers-discuss-substitution-shinawatras-collapsed-rice-scheme/

I don't know where you get this 5000ltre of water per KG but from what I see of rice farmers managing the water they use and reuse it has to be very far from the truth. I live in a rice farming area and have watched successive crops through several seasons.

Economic theory is great but unfortunately farmers cant eat it. According to theory farmers should sit at home with their families and starve while they wait for those they have been forced into debt to, to arrive and evict them from their land.

Can you and the economists not understand that many if not most will be growing rice for their own consumption. During the pledging those who took part in the scheme (about 1/3rd of all rice farmers) sold all the rice they could produce. Things are different now and they must grow to feed themselves first then sell what is surplice. Even if they are only making a small profit on what they sell it will still be enough to add something to the rice they have stored and pay some of the interest on loans to keep the creditors from taking their land.

They also have ways of cutting costs which they will be doing. Farmers are not the dumb peasants some would like to make them out as. Perhaps you are the one who should learn a little about rice farming before posting on the subject.

Most are deep in debt from what has gone before and desperately need to plant a crop to get enough to pay interest on loans and feed their families.

You were just talking about making money rice farming to paying off debt, now you are talking subsistence farming. Make up your mind.

But those that are in business, how do you make a profit, to pay off debts if production cost is higher than market value? What ways and how much can they cut cost? And why have they never been able to do that before?

As for water use in rice farming, the information is is quite available all over the internet. http://www.unwater.org/wwd12/downloads/WWD2012_VW_LIST1.pdf

Why is it only in Thailand rice farming is a unique trade? It is if it is due an entitlement, under any circumstance.

How is rice farming so much different than any other kind of farming? 8 years I worked on farms, through drought and floods, never remember so much drama. Always seemed natural disasters where part of life and business as a farmer. Some years good some not so much, as part of farming life.