American gay couple unable to leave Thailand with daughter

[dirtycash]

hmmm, i thought my life was complicated

[nottocus]

Poor kid gonna grow up without a mother figure.

[cumgranosalum]

All the TV homophobes in one place - congrats Mods!

This is a public forum and people are entitled to their opinions, as long as they are not nasty about it, and I have

not seen a nasty comment on this topic yet

If you do not like or agree with a posters comment, then just move on Simple.

"This is a public forum and people are entitled to their opinions," - that old cliche? - Well there's a thought!

"Entitled" - The fact is an "opinion" is something derived from reason, rational thought or analysis. Whereas a prejudice is something that involves PREJUDGING an issue without any due thought or analysis.

So I'd suggest you aren't "entitled" to an opinion you have to earn the right to have it regarded as an opinion, something that several posters seem to have overlooked on this thread.

[cumgranosalum]

All the TV homophobes in one place - congrats Mods!

This is a public forum and people are entitled to their opinions, as long as they are not nasty about it, and I have

not seen a nasty comment on this topic yet

If you do not like or agree with a posters comment, then just move on Simple.

"This is a public forum and people are entitled to their opinions," - that old cliche? - Well there's a thought!

"Entitled" - The fact is an "opinion" is something derived from reason, rational thought or analysis. Whereas a prejudice is something that involves PREJUDGING an issue without any due thought or analysis.

So I'd suggest you aren't "entitled" to an opinion you have to earn the right to have it regarded as an opinion, something that several posters seem to have overlooked on this thread.

[Basil B]

I am thinking of the child's best interests and I do not see any child having a normal life being brought up by a gay couple, whether it be gay men or lesbian women.

[SoiBiker]

Holy homophobia Batman! What a bunch of prejudiced dinosaurs we have here.

Personally, I think a loving gay couple are likely to make better parents than an ex-hooker and an old man who'll likely be dead before the kid finishes school, in a relationship based on a financial transaction - but nobody seems to object to that sort of parenting round these parts.

[wow64]

Good... at least Thailand is thinking about the child.

[Jingthing]

Good... at least Thailand is thinking about the child.

You really think that's what this is about?

[robertthebruce]

This is good stuff '

There are more than enough unfortunate children waiting in orphanages all over the world to get the chance of finding loving foster parents. Take one of them as your child!!!

At some point kids want to know their true biological parents, so what they gonna tell those surrogate kids? Something like this? "It was a business you know - your biological mom carried you out just to make some extra cash but did not have any bond with you, letting alone love you? By the way, we have no idea who she was, where she lives and are also not allowed to check up on that... Oh, before I forgot - I am not your real dad, neither is Joe, your other dad... Your bio dad was a anonymous donor, I'm sorry!"

This is important and the response seems to be ' don't worry, it'll be ok'..... so blasé with predicting a kids feelings in the future.

Gays need to accept, 1) their union doesn't allow for the production of natural offspring

2) When it comes to kid raising, we don't know if there any negative outcomes to two blokes or two girls raising a kid, maybe being romantic in front of the kid, bullying at schools etc.

3)Purchasing children IS NOT THE <deleted> CORRECT ANSWER

All you poor bewildered creatures who want gays to adopt cannot get past your sexist natures to understand that the same applies to straight people. Why do you not tell them to stop procreating and adopt also????

You are all completely ignorant of the calling of nature, to follow what our genes demand, that is to have children. Many gay people use their own sperm to use with a surrogate mother.

I know a lesbian couple who, 26 years ago, used a gay friends sperm who wa..ed in the next room and then used a turkey baster to deliver it. The child born from that is now a straight well adjusted young man, a real hit with the girls, is well aware of his origins and would not have it any other way. He says that if they went to so much effort to have him then he knows he is really wanted and loved by his 2 mothers.

There has been quite a bit of research done already on the children raised by gay and lesbian couples that shows they do not suffer any detrimental effects any more than kids from straight unions. GET OVER YOUR FEAR OF THE TRUTH AND DO SOME SERIOUS READING ABOUT THE SUBJECT. Don't go looking in Catholic or Southern Baptist type websites. Look for scientific research.

And finally - grow up and get a life and get over all your prejudices.

Well said Trentham..... Great comment and nice story.....

Wish the world had more people like you....

[Andrew65]

I totally disagree with same sex couples bringing up children. The child is reared in an unusual environment whatever the gays might like to make out.

I think it's unfair on the kids. They have no real say, and are probably coerced into acceptance.

And then, we all know how cruel other kids can be.

[jdinasia]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

So, if straight couples are infertile.....

Perhaps you missed it when people explained human sexuality not changing the desire some people have to be parents?

Quick, let's return to the days when men married, then had kids, then left.. That closeted life surely was better!

[robertthebruce]

Holy homophobia Batman! What a bunch of prejudiced dinosaurs we have here.

Personally, I think a loving gay couple are likely to make better parents than an ex-hooker and an old man who'll likely be dead before the kid finishes school, in a relationship based on a financial transaction - but nobody seems to object to that sort of parenting round these parts.

My exact sentiments.... , just last week, I saw this old guy, about 80 walking or should I say scuffling along with a very small baby in his arms, and I thought it was a bit bizarre, then I saw this Thai Bird, about 20 years old with loads of Tatoos.... (Tramp stamp), come up to him and hold his arm ??? Fine if they are happy there lives, but he looked as though he was about to pop his clogs any minute.....

[jdinasia]

I totally disagree with same sex couples bringing up children. The child is reared in an unusual environment whatever the gays might like to make out.

I think it's unfair on the kids. They have no real say, and are probably coerced into acceptance.

And then, we all know how cruel other kids can be.

I know a few adults who were raised by gay couples. They are fine.

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/05/worlds_largest_study_on_gay_parents_finds_the_kids_are_more_than_all_right/

[jdinasia]

I am thinking of the child's best interests and I do not see any child having a normal life being brought up by a gay couple, whether it be gay men or lesbian women.

Yet almost all peer reviewed studies show that you are wrong.

[cumgranosalum]

I totally disagree with same sex couples bringing up children. The child is reared in an unusual environment whatever the gays might like to make out.

I think it's unfair on the kids. They have no real say, and are probably coerced into acceptance.

And then, we all know how cruel other kids can be.

bit by bit, ...are we learning about your childhood?

[samran]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

So I take it you chose to be straight?

[Yann55]

quote : because the woman who gave birth to her objects to the fact they are a same-sex couple.

... so much for Thailand being the land of absolute tolerance towards gays.

Not that I personally ever believed that it was, and there are numerous examples of how intolerant Thais can be when it comes to homosexuality. But it's one of those clichés that are strangely resilient, and for some reason, Thailand seems to generate a lot.

Now of course there's that other aspect : hum, hum, would it be possible that the Thai lady suddenly saw a possible means of getting more money ?

[NoshowJones]

All the TV homophobes in one place - congrats Mods!

This is a public forum and people are entitled to their opinions, as long as they are not nasty about it, and I have

not seen a nasty comment on this topic yet

If you do not like or agree with a posters comment, then just move on Simple.

But I don't want to - that must enrage you

Well don't move on then, it's up to you.

[NoshowJones]

All the TV homophobes in one place - congrats Mods!

This is a public forum and people are entitled to their opinions, as long as they are not nasty about it, and I have

not seen a nasty comment on this topic yet

If you do not like or agree with a posters comment, then just move on Simple.

"This is a public forum and people are entitled to their opinions," - that old cliche? - Well there's a thought!

"Entitled" - The fact is an "opinion" is something derived from reason, rational thought or analysis. Whereas a prejudice is something that involves PREJUDGING an issue without any due thought or analysis.

So I'd suggest you aren't "entitled" to an opinion you have to earn the right to have it regarded as an opinion, something that several posters seem to have overlooked on this thread.

So we are not entitled to an opinion?? so your right and the "several posters" are wrong.

[NoshowJones]

I have no objection to life style choices. Gay, straight or whatever. I do have concern however when you deviate out of your lifestyle choice. If the gay way of life produces off spring then hey congrats. However a gay coupleseeking surrogacy is a tad bit hypocrital to me. You choose a gay lifestyle but yearn the outcome of a straight lifestyle. If you do have money and feel the need for a child, then adopt. There are so many orphans in this world.

Homosexual couples should never be allowed to adopt children, whether they are "married" or not for very obvious reasons.

They may be the nicest people on earth but the children have to be considered first. I don't think I need to explain.

Nope, you don't. You're straight up dumb

Frankie Bear, you wouldn't be a supporter of the now defunct Glasgow football club, would you?

[NoshowJones]

Donutz. I agree with your last sentence, but they need normal parents, someone they can call Mum and Dad.

[Jingthing]

Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

But many would argue, myself included, that most of the anti-gay equal civil rights "opinions" being expressed here (and everywhere really) are rooted in bigotry and ignorance.
We have the right to that opinion as well.

[SoiBiker]

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but on a forum people are likely to challenge your opinion - and it helps if you can back it up with something better than 'it's just wrong'. Otherwise, as others have said, it does sound more like a prejudice.

Edited June 25, 2015 by SoiBiker

[Ceruhe]

All you poor bewildered creatures who want gays to adopt cannot get past your sexist natures to understand that the same applies to straight people. Why do you not tell them to stop procreating and adopt also????

Hmmm, I don't think it's so much a sexist nature to also tell straight people to adopt, rather than knowing they have the natural biological means without 3rd party dependency, thus choosing the "easier" option to have kids.

I don't have kids myself, and I'm not even sure if I want to put a kid into this wretched world as I know it now, but just from reading what people write about screening to be allowed to adopt etc just seems to be that much more hassle that I don't think I want to deal with either, therefore I'd already be on the fence with adopting right off the get go. Nevermind there should be a some test you gotta take to even be allowed to make offspring, but this is a dream I will keep dreaming alright.

I guess to make it mundane....why go out to eat dinner when you can stay at home and cook it yourself, without needing borrow your neigherbors pots and pans.

I might be irrational to the whole biology thing. What I primary need is the basics for living...food, water and air, everything else is secondary and voluntary. So I'm not entirely on the same page with "nature calling to have offspring" since I don't even want to hold a random toddler for the life of mine and get majorly aggrevated when somebody comes walking up to me and waving it around in my face as if I gotta do something with it...I simply do not care to interact with it. Especially since it's not mine and I have no obligations toward it and also lack the emotions to whatever happens to it. Rationally speaking, I'm not concerned of my bloodline ending with me, as there is no greater benefit between "me or them".

Maybe I'll change my views over the years. Maybe I'm just not able to be empathetic. Maybe I'm defect. I'm just not sure how to feel "it".

I am thinking of the child's best interests and I do not see any child having a normal life being brought up by a gay couple, whether it be gay men or lesbian women.

Thinking is something many people can't properly do. The only "best interest" you have is skewed towards your perception of the world as it is right now. What is normal anyway? Exactly, your (socially indoctrinated) bias toward how you know it.

Breakthroughs in science have alot been due to accidents, lazyness or other "unnormal" things one would do as a scientist, and exactly those "not normal procedures" have made a massive impact on the world.

Thinking for other people, nevermind them being infants/kids/adults, doesn't always serve as the best outcome. As you may have read in another post, there has been an example (and likely alot more with the odd ones out as well) that have grown up in a gay household and turned out "just fine". Proper parenting and education is what each individual needs, if there is a strong arm or boobs involved is already secondary to a "childs well being".

Your assumption of a "normal life" is solely based on having a mother and a father.

To me it's learning how to ride a bike, hanging out with friends, going to school and learn stuff. Getting bullied etc can happen to anybody and chances are kids of gay couples are more subjected to, which you may simply forward and attribute to bad parenting from the straigh couples or socially indoctrinated poisonous views.

I grew up "normal" until I was around 6, then my parents got divorced, all the "best interest for the kid" people kept talking to me and asking "do you love your mama or papa more? where do you want to be?", and after having stated multiple times that I want to stay with my brothers and I don't care if it's mama or papa (simply because as a kid I cannot evaluate the value of either parent giving me down the road, for all I'm concerned is that I have a place to sleep and get fed), I alone got "ripped apart" from my brothers, whose custody my father got andmy mother took custody of me.

Now you, please, for the sake of "only having the best interest of the kid" in mind...how is that normal? That, which I stated to being with my brothers, got completely ignored, ripped apart was the best interest for me...how?

My household wasn't violent by any means, but it also wasn't much loving. Sure a hug here and there until I reached my teens, but that was just about it from and until then. And then I was treated like a commodity with the custody changing about every 2 years +/-, because having just made friends, leaving, making new ones just to repeat that for several times was so much fun and in my best interest.

Therefore, "normal" has no more value to me than what is getting "socially accepted", which means once humanity is done pausing with evolving itself and LGBT and alot of other stuff has been "socially accepted" it will be viewed as "normal" eventually.

Times change, it's is as simple as that.

[Jingthing]

I would prefer people just adopt (gay, straight, or anything).

But many people are hung on the child having at least some of their genes.

Understandable of course.

[Benmart]

I thought surrogacy was banned by the legislature a few months ago....

Not in effect yet apparently.

This couple is sounding optimistic but I wouldn't be if I were them.

I am not "them" and wish them luck.

[Jingthing]

I thought surrogacy was banned by the legislature a few months ago....

Not in effect yet apparently.

This couple is sounding optimistic but I wouldn't be if I were them.

I am not "them" and wish them luck.

I do too but the Thai legal system doesn't recognize the legality of their marriage.

[Sean1982]

Homosexual couples should never be allowed to adopt children, whether they are "married" or not for very obvious reasons.

They may be the nicest people on earth but the children have to be considered first. I don't think I need to explain.

Wow, I must be dumb, I would appreciate if you could please humour me by actually explaining. The word 'should' in the first sentence suggests either a concrete, proven, inescapable truth (or perhaps you're just trolling)... please clarify so we know whether or not to take your point seriously, preferably by backing up your position with significant evidence of some kind to make your viewpoint obviously true.

[Sean1982]

I reckon it must be strange for the child if they are with a gay couple. I would think it would really have a psychological effect on them that wwould stay with them for life

perhaps you'd care to outline those effects?

You mean you don't know??

I know, right? ...there seem to be a growing number of people asking to see evidence, well thought-out logic and carefully reasoned conclusions about things that can affect our society.

Damn those people. Wouldn't life be easier if we could just turn our brains off and provide our own pre-conceived ideas and accusations as the actual evidence?

Having said all that though, I'd actually like to hear about these affects and understand them too, because, you know, listening to opposing viewpoints might actually be a good thing, in particular if they're accompanied by evidence (sorry to go all 'show me the evidence' after what I said above, but, you know, it does actually help one's position to actually provide some sort of tangible evidence for that position I suppose).

[MaeJoMTB]

looks a bit fishy to me, a surrogate that is not the biological mother! how does that work? It seems the couple are looking to cheat the system and nature.

Donor egg (from Indian woman) fertilized outside the womb with American guys sperm, then implanted into a third party (Thai) womb.

Supposedly stops the third party woman claiming parental rights ...... cos they aren't a parent.

Edited June 25, 2015 by MaeJoMTB