Thailand to upgrade fleet, chooses Chinese to provide three submarines

[timber]

One billion dollars. Why?

[bangon04]

This could only be Thailand........ Able to stay under water longer...... Oh yes, much much longer ........ I've worked on Chinese machinery for years, and to tell you the truth, i wouldn't go on Lumpini park lake in a chinese made rowing boat, nevermind go down in a Chinese submarine....... Jesus ! You'd be better off buying a load of old scrap Diesel electrics from the scrapyards of the worlds navys, at least you know they work........... Ah well, looking on the bright side, there'll be a lot more artificial reefs soon...........

I guess you will avoid all Airbus aircraft in asia from now on.......

[bangon04]

Does Thailand have a "White Paper"?

A policy document outlining the military requirements.

With this, one can then comment on whether submarine procurement is valid.

Thailand's highest authority has actually made the point that procuring submarines is not desirable.

So if they are willing to ignore this advice, what use would any white paper serve?

[duanebigsby]

Quote "According to the source, the committee voted to buy the Chinese submarines because they are "equipped with superior weaponry and technology..." I guess Germany is still making U-boats and they didn't look pretty for Thai Military...

Speaking of Chinese wonderful craftsmanship.... remember that Chinese computer or equipment you bought that broke the first time around? "these subs look promising"... for Chinese workmanship... (just like when you lean on a car these days...and it dents like paper... "so guys don't lean on the sub"

In the states, we have stores called "1 dollar" stores... all the crap is from guess where... so that sounds fun to be stuck in a claustrophobic space and it can't resurface because it broke... and it can't get up....

Right, because the US doesn't make anything anymore.

That's why $1 stores and Walmart and almost every other store sells Chinese crap.

The biggest innovator, Apple, makes all its product in China and Korea.

[Jimbolai]

Initially it was one submarine, now when the Chinese say: hey YOU Thai man, I have these

last 3 subs I want sell, I make you special price, you buy man?

Actually it started as buy one get one free and then went to one price for 3. 2 almost free. down worry.

[phoenixdoglover]

With three you get eggroll.

[magnacarta]

"Chinese submarines .......... able to stay underwater longer."

No doubt. How good are they at re-surfacing?

they are submarines......... they only have to submergee once......... come on get with the plot dahhhhh

[silent]

"Chinese submarines .......... able to stay underwater longer."

No doubt. How good are they at re-surfacing?

Although weaponry and endurance important, the most critical factor is detectably.

If the enemy can track you it's all over.

It depends on what you want to use them for: For hunting illegal traffic, fishing etc even the most noisy one will be good enough, but it should be long time invisible.

If you fight against Cambodia, I doubt they are good in detecting subs. If fighting against China, USA or Russia it wouldn't matter as well, so detectable would matter only against maybe Malaysia which isn't as bad as Cambodia and not as good as USA.

All sounds like a real pack of pickle peppers doesn't it.

Edited June 26, 2015 by silent

[silent]

"Chinese submarines .......... able to stay underwater longer."

No doubt. How good are they at re-surfacing?

Although weaponry and endurance important, the most critical factor is detectably.

If the enemy can track you it's all over.

It depends on what you want to use them for: For hunting illegal traffic, fishing etc even the most noisy one will be good enough, but it should be long time invisible.

If you fight against Cambodia, I doubt they are good in detecting subs. If fighting against China, USA or Russia it wouldn't matter as well, so detectable would matter only against maybe Malaysia which isn't as bad as Cambodia and not as good as USA.

Are you for real?

submarines, especially diesel ones need to surface regularly unlike nuclear subs, they would be sunk within minutes as there's nowhere to hide in the Gulf of Siam, it's too shallow, so whoever the Thais are wanting to hide from, have no where to actually hide.

If they're going to use them for anti fishing, then it's a 300billion baht white elephants, they need to surface and intercept these fishing boats, then they need to launch a boarding party (VBSS) to actually board the vessel !!

Why waste money on Subs, when Fast attack boats capable of doing 40 knots are more manoeuvrable and lower maintenence, and will be easier to support VBSS operations?

could there be reason in madness?

[silent]

Why does Thailand need submarines and an aircraft carrier (without aitcraft)?

Because Confucious say " longest journey begin with first step" ?

[Srikcir]

The difference for Thailand, or more properly, the deal breaker for Thailand will be which nation will accept chicken/rice as part (or all) of the payment. Thailand has stockpiles of surplus rice rotting away in warehouses. China has billions of mouths to feed. A hungry population is a restive one and China doesn't want even the hint of any kind of uprising to come out.

As for "Sputnik News" - it appears to be a pro-Russian, anti-American (no surprise there) quasi-military news publication that started up in Nov 2014. It looks to be along the lines of Janes, though with a heavy anti-US/anti-"West" bias in it's articles, cartoons and polls. For example, the latest poll question is:

McCain calls not arming Ukraine the most 'shameful chapter' in the US history. What do you think is the most disgraceful event in America's past?

a.) The invasion of Iraq

b.) Using chemical weapons in Vietnam

c.) Dropping atomic bombs on Japan

d.) I agree with McCain

e.) None of the above

(The results so far are C, A, B, E and D)

Like Faux News, Sputnik News is not a source I will use anytime in the near future.

It is likely the submarine deal is tied to the Chinese dual rail project being financed by the Chinese. Thai military purchases would offset the below market interest rates and debt service deferral options.

[frazze]

Haha I would never enter a sub labeled "made in China"..

[tbthailand]

$1 billion for the subs... consider, ....

The Gulf of Thailand is relatively shallow: its mean depth is 58 metres(190 ft) and the maximum depth is only 85 metres (279 ft).

and ask yourself why....

[captspectre]

Please remember to close the hatch before submersing!

what does the thai navy need submarines for? do they not know that second hand submarines are useless? the anti submarine tactics are well known and if the aircraft carrier is any example that thing has not been to sea in years! and what ever happened to the "used aorcraft that the thai air force bought? haven't heard a word about them or seen them flying anywhere!

[rockyysdt]

what does the thai navy need submarines for? do they not know that second hand submarines are useless? the anti submarine tactics are well known and if the aircraft carrier is any example that thing has not been to sea in years! and what ever happened to the "used aorcraft that the thai air force bought? haven't heard a word about them or seen them flying anywhere!

Q

Why does any non super power buy any unsuitable highly priced capital military hardware.

To maintain or enter alliance.

Look at Australia.

The only purpose the JST F35 fighter procurement serves is to make its builders money. Totally useless and over priced. Simulations showed a loss of 85% fleet loss over 2 missions against current opposition technology and yet these pigs must last 30 years.

Take purchase elsewhere and Australia will soon be out in the cold with U.S.

[joebrown]

Please remember to close the hatch before submersing!

what does the thai navy need submarines for? do they not know that second hand submarines are useless? the anti submarine tactics are well known and if the aircraft carrier is any example that thing has not been to sea in years! and what ever happened to the "used aorcraft that the thai air force bought? haven't heard a word about them or seen them flying anywhere!

Sorry to be a 'party pooper', but how close to Sattahip do YOU live? I live there and I see the arcraft carrier go out to sea, admittedly not very often. It appears to be seaworthy. However, I agree there are no aircraft visible, so to all intents and purposes, it's now just a big ship with a ski-jump up-front!

[worgeordie]

Prediction, This will not have a good ending.

3 Subs ,better throw in a rescue vessel as well.

regards Worgeordie

[wabothai]

I am sure the Chinese ordered the generals to buy the subs.

Chinese versus Thai? the Chinese will always win.

[NongKhaiKid]

If these subs are as "advanced" as they claim, it would take a good couple of years minimum to train a crew in all these systems to be at least efficient.

Which poses the question have the RTN already sent Submariners to Chima to learn how to operate.

Have all the systems in here subs been converted from mandarin to Thai?

Will the skippers be Thais or Chinese "advisors"

So it could be years before the subs are actually operational unless the navy decides to cut corners in order to play with their new toys and show off to the media etc.

No need to expand on the potential consequences of rushing training and familiarisation.

Edited June 27, 2015 by NongKhaiKid

[Ricardo]

Perhaps they were offered a three-for-the-price-of-two deal ?

Either way, not needed or wanted, IMO.

Unless Thailand expects some unnamed world-power to want to start building fake-islands, and claiming mineral-rights, in the Gulf of Siam ?

I only wish my homeland hadn't decided, several years ago, to renew its own fleet of four nuclear-missile subs, thus missing an opportunity to set a good example by stepping back from owning nuclear-weapons.

But hey, sometimes the World falls short of our hopes.

The British government hasn't yet firmly placed the order for the Trident replacements and certainly BAE Systems hasn't started building them as they are still finishing off the last of the new nuclear hunter/killers.

Who do you think Britain would be setting an example to by stepping back from nuclear weapons - Putin's Russia, Iran, Israel, N. Korea - sorry old chap, but I don't buy in to your hopes of a peaceful world.

Actually German subs are still the best for coastal patrols and are nearly silent, but I guess they need really good maintenance by highly qualified technical personnel.

"The British government hasn't yet firmly placed the order for the Trident replacements"

True, although "The government has spent £730m assessing the Successor programme since 2011, including contracts worth a total of £350m for BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce and Babcock to design the submarine."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-26559534

So the money is already being poured out, on the project, despite the UK's stressed public-finances.

I don't see Iran, Israel or North Korea as being a credible threat to the UK, in my view a terrorist dirty-bomb would be a more likely, and one nuclear-armed submarine on-station wouldn't deter them, would it ?

If Putin's Russia were to start a nuclear war, then the USA would surely be drawn in anyway, so would the continuing UK independent-deterrent add anything to the situation ? Not really IMO. So a decision not to renew Trident is merely a gesture that costs us nothing.

We are currently seeing a global reduction in nuclear-weapons numbers, led by the USA & Russia, which can only be a good thing. The UK's decision to abandon them would only be going along with that trend.

Justifying the UK spending 25-billion on the new fleet, plus annual running-costs of another couple-of-billion, is difficult to do, unless one thinks that the UK should still be trying to be some sort of global-policeman, an assistant to the USA or other global leading-nations. But I believe that those days are now gone.

Lastly, I severely doubt that the British people, in whose name this is being done, would ever now support using nuclear-weapons, even for a revenge-attack of some sort. Public support for that died in the 1980s, when it became glaringly obvious to all of us, that any sort of nuclear-war (beyond a very-limited battlefield exchange) would be the end of the UK and life as we know it.

The Empire is gone, we're not the world-leader we once were, and there are far better things to spend the money on, our conventional-forces for example.

[wabothai]

Can't get over it !!

Are they that stupid?

Or is there another agenda we are not supposed to know? Oh, but pay for yes.

[bamnutsak]

Other brilliant procurements...

Airship crash hurts four

The Royal Thai Army's airship crashed yesterday while providing surveillance for Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra's visit to Pattani, falling from an altitude of 15 metres.

Four crewmembers suffered minor injuries as they jumped from the aircraft before it hit the ground. The incident took place at around 3pm in a Pattani military camp as the airship was coming in for a landing.

As much as 50 per cent of the airship's body was damaged, a military spokesperson said. However, journalists and outsiders were prohibited from entering the crash site. The Fourth Army Region, which operates the airship, issued no comments.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Airship-crash-hurts-four-30196101.html

Thai war airship going over like a lead zeppelin

Thailand has a less than positive experience with using an airship to counter its southern insurgency.

f you're going to fight an Islamic insurgency, you'd think there would be more practical tools than an airship.

But that's just what Thailand has been using to track militants in its restive southern provinces. Its manned Aeros 40D Sky Dragon, manufactured by California-based Aeros, has again run into technical trouble, making an emergency landing in the south's Pattani Province recently.

http://www.cnet.com/news/thai-war-airship-going-over-like-a-lead-zeppelin/

Thai army reaffirms usage of GT200-dowsing rod for bomb detection

Thailand’s army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha has reaffirmed that the Royal Thai Army will keep on using the controversial GT200, a bogus device that is supposed to detect explosive materials among other substances. The device, effectively nothing more than an empty plastic shell with a dowsing rod, has been proven ineffective numerous times and the UK-based manufacturer has now been charged for fraud. Despite this, the GT200 has been spotted being still used by Thai soldiers at various times. Bangkok Pundit has some more background and some history on its usage in the Thai army.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/85835/thai-army-reaffirms-usage-of-bogus-gt200-dowsing-rod-for-bomb-detection/

[rametindallas]

I just got off the phone with my friend who's waiting to get a contract with the RTA and he says the budget has NOT come out yet. The original article says 'planned' so I'm not so sure this is really going to happen; especially considering the source. Sometimes people make positive statements to build momentum as though something were inevitable. 1.1 billion Dollars for an antiquated military design that won't/can't be used in 90% of Thai waters is extravagant even by Thai military standards. Since the RTA controls the purse strings and they have no special love for the RTN, I doubt the submarine deal will pass final approval. A lot of yes-when-I-mean-no-but-won't-say-no-to-spare-your-feelings/reputation face saving going on at the moment. Sure some admirals in the Navy will be disappointed but what can they do about it, really. You know the RTA is going to spend money on its own projects before it gives the RTN 1.1 billion Dollars.

.

[jerojero]

And Thailand needs submarines why? Utter stupidity. All face.

[mike324]

Are these for amusement parks? what can they possibly do with these chinese subs...

[Rhys]

Let me see....Thai Navy.. do it deeply and quietly... ngahhh.. don't think so.. the sonar guys can pick up the ooohhhoooo..

[mango66]

"Chinese submarines .......... able to stay underwater longer."

No doubt. How good are they at re-surfacing?

They can stay longer under water 555555555 !!!

Once you bring them down,

They will stay there for ever !!!

And they have the superior weapons -

controlled by Chi virus infected software and satellite controlled !!

Good choice from Thai !!

take the devil in your home !!!

[bangon04]

Please remember to close the hatch before submersing!

what does the thai navy need submarines for? do they not know that second hand submarines are useless? the anti submarine tactics are well known and if the aircraft carrier is any example that thing has not been to sea in years! and what ever happened to the "used aorcraft that the thai air force bought? haven't heard a word about them or seen them flying anywhere!

Sorry to be a 'party pooper', but how close to Sattahip do YOU live? I live there and I see the arcraft carrier go out to sea, admittedly not very often. It appears to be seaworthy. However, I agree there are no aircraft visible, so to all intents and purposes, it's now just a big ship with a ski-jump up-front!

It is by far the grandest royal yacht in the world. Thailand is the greatest..

[FritsSikkink]

But how will the Thai military use submarines against their own people? More guns, rubber bullets and wire ties would be more useful.

the reds started the violence not the military

[mikiea]

Perhaps the Submarines are to escourt the Great Conveys of High speed rail equipment

no you are wrong about that , they will be used to ferry over all the tour de france sign mileage posts . ehhh.... what ?