Abhisit backs limited amnesty proposal

[Lite Beer]

Abhisit backs limited amnesty proposal
THE NATION

DEMOCRAT Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday voiced support for the idea of granting amnesty to ordinary protesters, as suggested by a study panel on reconciliation.

The National Reform Council (NRC)'s panel on reconciliation said on Thursday that moves to end the political deadlock could include measures like granting amnesty. The panel suggested that in order to promote reconciliation, amnesty could be granted to all groups - ordinary protesters, leaders, security officers as well as high-ranking officials responsible for issuing directives or policies in relation to political rallies.

This amnesty would not include those convicted for criminal, lese majeste and corruption offences.

"I hope this won't be 'blanket amnesty'," he said, adding that the public should be allowed to take part in a discussion on the criteria for granting amnesty to protest leaders.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Abhisit-backs-limited-amnesty-proposal-30263730.html

-- The Nation 2015-07-04

[ezzra]

What's with this amnesty racket in this country? every now and than, a has been or a wannabe

pops up with this self serving, ass covering 'amnesty' ideas....

how will any future bad people will learn to respect the law

if there will always be amnesties and let's forgive and forget concessions absolving riot and chaos

mongers from paying for their crimes?

Edited July 3, 2015 by ezzra

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

One of the few Thai politicians with a functional brain, hats off to him for this idea. Why no condemnation of the student arrests by the Phua Thai "Politicians"? Have they not received any money from the Shinawatras the last couple of months or what happened?

Edited July 3, 2015 by HiSoLowSoNoSo

[djjamie]

When you have a guy that went to an English university with the output being a proficiency in the English language compared to a girl that went to an English university and the output being that she cannot speak a word of English I have ALOT of faith in reform...

Always good to hear from the Right Honourable Abhisit.

[Bannum opinions]

One of the few Thai politicians with a functional brain, hats off to him for this idea. Why no condemnation of the student arrests by the Phua Thai "Politicians"? Have they not received any money from the Shinawatras the last couple of months or what happened?

Accolades to a politician who has never won a straight-up election, and denigrating those who do.

A two-fer

Sums up the anti-democrat view of Thailand's political space, plus demonizes an electoral majority.

"Always good to hear from the Right Honourable Abhisit"...#4 above

I wonder if we can take him at his word...That if in the next election the voters reject him again, he will finally step down....Something Politicians in mature democracies do much earlier after losing several elections.

Or is he confident that the electoral process will be sufficiently 'reformed' in his favour.

Edited July 4, 2015 by Bannum opinions

[Manbing]

Mr T qualifies as ordinary right?

[rametindallas]

This amnesty would not include those convicted for criminal, lese majeste and corruption offences.

If you rule out those arrested for criminal, lese majeste, and corruption offenses, how many 'ordinary' protesters, of the tens (hundreds) of thousand of protesters, were arrested and are still in jail? What are the convictions/charges against them, if they aren't criminal, lese majeste, and corruption offenses?

As for "leaders, security officers as well as high-ranking officials responsible for issuing directives or policies in relation to political rallies", none of them should be considered because that would include Abhisit and Suthep and the Democrat government.

A great part of the population will be offended if anyone higher than the most 'ordinary' protester is amnestied and amnesty will not lead to reconciliation but to more recriminations and self-serving finger pointing.

Stop with the amnesty talk already. That word has become poison.

BTW, Abhisit is yesterday's news unless he is taken to court. Why are they giving this failed leader a forum?

.

[dageurreotype]

I suspect the currently incarcerated fourteen students would not want an amnesty as it implies they were 'guilty' of something, and they aren't.

[NongKhaiKid]

What's with this amnesty racket in this country? every now and than, a has been or a wannabe

pops up with this self serving, ass covering 'amnesty' ideas....

how will any future bad people will learn to respect the law

if there will always be amnesties and let's forgive and forget concessions absolving riot and chaos

mongers from paying for their crimes?

You are so right but this is Thainess to take the easy way out, the line of least resistance.

[BSJ]

This thing called 'Amnesty' keeps bubbling to the surface. I cannot for the life of me understand that.

[dageurreotype]

This thing called 'Amnesty' keeps bubbling to the surface. I cannot for the life of me understand that.

It's a Thai thing. They believe locking someone up is 'rude'. This from a local prosecutor ..

However if you're skint, throw away the key.

[h90]

One of the few Thai politicians with a functional brain, hats off to him for this idea. Why no condemnation of the student arrests by the Phua Thai "Politicians"? Have they not received any money from the Shinawatras the last couple of months or what happened?

yes he is smarter than any other, but as PM he was very weak

[oneday]

Granting amnesty to the people who took over the airport or to those who took over government buildings or anyone who harmed a business would be a crime.

Normal protesters on the street not harming anyone or any business, yes, I agree.

[oneday]

Amnesty for people who took over the airport or government buildings or harmed any businesses would be a crime.

Amnesty for protesters in the street who harmed no one and no business, yes, I agree.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

One of the few Thai politicians with a functional brain, hats off to him for this idea. Why no condemnation of the student arrests by the Phua Thai "Politicians"? Have they not received any money from the Shinawatras the last couple of months or what happened?

yes he is smarter than any other, but as PM he was very weak

If given a second chance to run the country without people like Suthep involved I am sure he could become a very good PM.

[jayboy]

This amnesty would not include those convicted for criminal, lese majeste and corruption offences.

If you rule out those arrested for criminal, lese majeste, and corruption offenses, how many 'ordinary' protesters, of the tens (hundreds) of thousand of protesters, were arrested and are still in jail? What are the convictions/charges against them, if they aren't criminal, lese majeste, and corruption offenses?

As for "leaders, security officers as well as high-ranking officials responsible for issuing directives or policies in relation to political rallies", none of them should be considered because that would include Abhisit and Suthep and the Democrat government.

A great part of the population will be offended if anyone higher than the most 'ordinary' protester is amnestied and amnesty will not lead to reconciliation but to more recriminations and self-serving finger pointing.

Stop with the amnesty talk already. That word has become poison.

BTW, Abhisit is yesterday's news unless he is taken to court. Why are they giving this failed leader a forum?

.

To answer your final point, I don't think Abhisit is "being given a forum".He is a former PM and despite his weaknesses he is a man of experience and intellect.Those two latter qualities immediately distinguish him from the pack.He has every right to comment as he thinks fit.In the present climate of fear and repression (not to mention stunning incompetence) he also feels a duty to speak out.

Nevertheless the amnesty issue is a tricky one.It's certainly not clear why those accused of lese majeste (usually on spurious grounds) should be excluded.At the same time it's equally not clear why coupsters who crushed democracy should benefit from an amnesty.

Those found guilty of corruption should not even be considered for an amnesty (with the sad but necessary proviso that the judicial system's involvement must be fair and transparent).

In the circumstances I do believe reconciliation does require some painful concessions.That means I suggest amnesties for Suthep and PDRC, the PAD leadership and the redshirt leadership etc etc.Thaksin is a special case and cannot be included.

The witch hunt against Yingluck should be abandoned.(Genuine corruption in the rice price support scheme should be pursued in accordance with the law - but see proviso above.)

[rametindallas]

This amnesty would not include those convicted for criminal, lese majeste and corruption offences.

If you rule out those arrested for criminal, lese majeste, and corruption offenses, how many 'ordinary' protesters, of the tens (hundreds) of thousand of protesters, were arrested and are still in jail? What are the convictions/charges against them, if they aren't criminal, lese majeste, and corruption offenses?

As for "leaders, security officers as well as high-ranking officials responsible for issuing directives or policies in relation to political rallies", none of them should be considered because that would include Abhisit and Suthep and the Democrat government.

A great part of the population will be offended if anyone higher than the most 'ordinary' protester is amnestied and amnesty will not lead to reconciliation but to more recriminations and self-serving finger pointing.

Stop with the amnesty talk already. That word has become poison.

BTW, Abhisit is yesterday's news unless he is taken to court. Why are they giving this failed leader a forum?

.

To answer your final point, I don't think Abhisit is "being given a forum".He is a former PM and despite his weaknesses he is a man of experience and intellect.Those two latter qualities immediately distinguish him from the pack.He has every right to comment as he thinks fit.In the present climate of fear and repression (not to mention stunning incompetence) he also feels a duty to speak out.

Nevertheless the amnesty issue is a tricky one.It's certainly not clear why those accused of lese majeste (usually on spurious grounds) should be excluded.At the same time it's equally not clear why coupsters who crushed democracy should benefit from an amnesty.

Those found guilty of corruption should not even be considered for an amnesty (with the sad but necessary proviso that the judicial system's involvement must be fair and transparent).

In the circumstances I do believe reconciliation does require some painful concessions.That means I suggest amnesties for Suthep and PDRC, the PAD leadership and the redshirt leadership etc etc.Thaksin is a special case and cannot be included.

The witch hunt against Yingluck should be abandoned.(Genuine corruption in the rice price support scheme should be pursued in accordance with the law - but see proviso above.)

The witch hunt against Yingluck should be abandoned

Since I follow your posts, you just revealed the true reason for your 'pretty words' about Abhisit.

Abhisit's proposal would include himself and Suthep and that security panel he formed to deal with Thaksin's paid Red Shirt mob, headed by Tarit that called the army on the 'peaceful' protesters. A little to self-serving and it would open the door to amnesty for all politicians' corruption that hadn't been through the courts yet, including all the misdeeds of the Rice Support Scheme, because they haven't been found guilty... YET. And they never will if Abhisit and all the other guilty parties have their way.

That's about 27,000 plus cases in some phase of being processed by the legal system for political corruption but not yet in the courts. Also, those people who shut down the airport and invaded Government House, those people who got on the Red stage and told people to 'Burn Bangkok down', the Men in Black who were videotaped shooting at Kok Wua intersection April 19,2001, and those who blocked the polls in the annulled 2014 vote, etc., all need to get the justice they deserve and not get amnesty. If your aren't Thai, you sure think like one.

.

[chainarong]

May I be ever so humble to point out to Mark that even though it seems like a grand Idea it sends the wrong message , you cannot give amnesty to people who break the law, that also includes the peasants as well as the Elite , when it comes to the law there should be no distinction , although we all know over the ages there has always been a law for one and another for some others but to generalise Amnesty as a way forward is not an option, let the courts decide what the penalty will be, that's what they are here for.

[jayboy]

May I be ever so humble to point out to Mark that even though it seems like a grand Idea it sends the wrong message , you cannot give amnesty to people who break the law, that also includes the peasants as well as the Elite , when it comes to the law there should be no distinction , although we all know over the ages there has always been a law for one and another for some others but to generalise Amnesty as a way forward is not an option, let the courts decide what the penalty will be, that's what they are here for.

Wrong and ill informed on multiple levels.The whole point of an amnesty is to pardon those guilty of illegal behaviour in the interests of a greater cause - particularly in the light of a difficult national history.South Africa and Northern Ireland are good examples of this process.

The Thai courts do not have a track record of independence and recent years have seen the rise of partisan and directed judicial activism.Therefore leaving it to the courts is not an option.

Amnesty is always a painful process.In Thailand all political factions have looked for total victory.Reconciliation is impossible with this rigid mindset.Ultimately simple demographics will ensure the defeat of entrenched elites.But it would be far better to have a negotiated settlement before then.Amnesty has a part to play in this process.

[lucky11]

One of the few Thai politicians with a functional brain, hats off to him for this idea. Why no condemnation of the student arrests by the Phua Thai "Politicians"? Have they not received any money from the Shinawatras the last couple of months or what happened?

Accolades to a politician who has never won a straight-up election, and denigrating those who do.

A two-fer

Sums up the anti-democrat view of Thailand's political space, plus demonizes an electoral majority.

"Always good to hear from the Right Honourable Abhisit"...#4 above

I wonder if we can take him at his word...That if in the next election the voters reject him again, he will finally step down....Something Politicians in mature democracies do much earlier after losing several elections.

Or is he confident that the electoral process will be sufficiently 'reformed' in his favour.

He did step down!! Precisely 4 years ago from today.

He has vowed to step down again if he doesn't succeed in the next election (which I very much doubt).

Edited July 4, 2015 by lucky11

[Seastallion]

Amnesty should be letting people off in exchange for society getting something more important than a conviction. For example an amnesty for handing in illegal weapons gets the guns off the street.

This amnesty is being done for the sake of reconciliation, which I suppose is important, but the way it has been proposed (to include leaders etc) is totally asking for even bigger demonstrations the next time some group with some coloured shirt wants to disrupt life.

The pawns, the foot soldiers, should be let off "in the interests of reconciliation", but not the people who incited them. The instigators need to be dealt with.

[jesimps]

One of the few Thai politicians with a functional brain, hats off to him for this idea. Why no condemnation of the student arrests by the Phua Thai "Politicians"? Have they not received any money from the Shinawatras the last couple of months or what happened?

There has been much condemnation from PTP people, you're just another but but but Thaksin type. Non so blind as those with yellow coloured spectacles. Edited July 4, 2015 by jesimps

[wabothai]

This thing called 'Amnesty' keeps bubbling to the surface. I cannot for the life of me understand that.

it's like the nkkid says, it is part of thainess which you see happening every day.

Three monkeys.....

[Srikcir]

What's with this amnesty racket in this country? every now and than, a has been or a wannabe

pops up with this self serving, ass covering 'amnesty' ideas....

how will any future bad people will learn to respect the law

if there will always be amnesties and let's forgive and forget concessions absolving riot and chaos

mongers from paying for their crimes?

"how will any future bad people will learn to respect the law"

That will be the day when the Thai military respects the Constitution instead of abolishing it.

[EnglishJohn]

I suspect the currently incarcerated fourteen students would not want an amnesty as it implies they were 'guilty' of something, and they aren't.

... errr .. they are guilty of breaking the law. Or do red-shirts think the law does not apply to them ?.

I remember someone saying how the police were getting fed up because when they stopped a red-shirt for something, they thought they were immune from prosecution because they won the election.

If you had any intelligence you would be asking yourself WHY we have this law. Here's a clue : grenades and terrorism from the same organisation as these political activists (NOT protestors) belong.

[rubl]

One of the few Thai politicians with a functional brain, hats off to him for this idea. Why no condemnation of the student arrests by the Phua Thai "Politicians"? Have they not received any money from the Shinawatras the last couple of months or what happened?

Accolades to a politician who has never won a straight-up election, and denigrating those who do.

A two-fer

Sums up the anti-democrat view of Thailand's political space, plus demonizes an electoral majority.

"Always good to hear from the Right Honourable Abhisit"...#4 above

I wonder if we can take him at his word...That if in the next election the voters reject him again, he will finally step down....Something Politicians in mature democracies do much earlier after losing several elections.

Or is he confident that the electoral process will be sufficiently 'reformed' in his favour.

Well, part of the anti-democrat view of Thailand political space seems to have only winners to be true democrats. At least that's the impression I get from your post. Somehow it is democratic to win a seat even if your party doesn't win more seats than another party. As for 'electoral majority' sounds good, all 42% of votes cast in 2011. Doesn't mean the others have no democratic rights and should shut up.

[rubl]

I suspect the currently incarcerated fourteen students would not want an amnesty as it implies they were 'guilty' of something, and they aren't.

TRue, true, just like Abhisit/Suthep always stating to be against an amnesty and rather defend themselves and their actions in court to be able to clear their name.

[rubl]

Granting amnesty to the people who took over the airport or to those who took over government buildings or anyone who harmed a business would be a crime.

Normal protesters on the street not harming anyone or any business, yes, I agree.

Granting amnesty to people who rouse innocent protesters to act criminally or use heavily armed militants should also not be included. The leaders of the protest groups should not be included. Anyone already in a criminal process should be excluded.

So, who's left ?

[rubl]

May I be ever so humble to point out to Mark that even though it seems like a grand Idea it sends the wrong message , you cannot give amnesty to people who break the law, that also includes the peasants as well as the Elite , when it comes to the law there should be no distinction , although we all know over the ages there has always been a law for one and another for some others but to generalise Amnesty as a way forward is not an option, let the courts decide what the penalty will be, that's what they are here for.

Wrong and ill informed on multiple levels.The whole point of an amnesty is to pardon those guilty of illegal behaviour in the interests of a greater cause - particularly in the light of a difficult national history.South Africa and Northern Ireland are good examples of this process.

The Thai courts do not have a track record of independence and recent years have seen the rise of partisan and directed judicial activism.Therefore leaving it to the courts is not an option.

Amnesty is always a painful process.In Thailand all political factions have looked for total victory.Reconciliation is impossible with this rigid mindset.Ultimately simple demographics will ensure the defeat of entrenched elites.But it would be far better to have a negotiated settlement before then.Amnesty has a part to play in this process.

Of course there should be reasonable justification for the period covered by an amnesty. Still wondering why the two years of Yingluck government were included in the blanket amnesty bill.

As for "simple demographics will ensure the defeat of entrenched elites" will only be true if all elites are covered, both those people like to call Amart and the local power brokers, Amply Rich people and so.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

One of the few Thai politicians with a functional brain, hats off to him for this idea. Why no condemnation of the student arrests by the Phua Thai "Politicians"? Have they not received any money from the Shinawatras the last couple of months or what happened?

There has been much condemnation from PTP people, you're just another but but but Thaksin type. Non so blind as those with yellow coloured spectacles.

Sorry to inform you but I am neither a yellow or redshirt supporter, but I wish for the sake of my Thai kids future that this country will be governed by intelligent and non corrupt politicians, sadly not many of them around.