Bush says he takes Trump's immigration remarks personally

[chuckd]

Take it up with the Washington Post.

My bet is they feel safe that what they have stated is true.

You're the one that posted it here... You used your discretion and your disdain for the man to select that snippet. Could have selected from 1000 others, but you selected that one. Man up to it.

I have no doubt that it's true. And it was true under Bush Jr, and true under Mr Clinton, and true under Bush Sr, and true under Reagan. And it will be true under Mrs. Clinton. And in the next election cycle, we'll see more sponsored articles like that.

Oh, they'll be true- as far as they go, but they'll leave out the inconvenient truths.

" And it was true under Bush Jr, and true under Mr Clinton, and true under Bush Sr, and true under Reagan."

Then I suggest you find an article claiming an equivalent number of illegal immigrants were released under the Bush Jr., Clinton, Bush Sr., and Reagan administrations that went on to commit murders.

You may then exercise your own discretion as you wish, just as I have done. You can post all the inconvenient truths you desire.

What is this "man up" nonsense? If my name is on the offending post, then I must respectfully suggest I have already "manned up".

[samran]

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

It is hardly a matter of opinion, yet you say you broke the law then ask if this makes you a criminal? If you do not know the answer or otherwise suspect an idiot would read your post and offer "no, you are not a criminal" then you are silly. This is an example of the exercising law through liberal echo chambers. Numerous people in America now openly assert that breaking the law is not actually breaking the law and illegals are actually immigrants. No. They are not. Immigrants are those countless other people working their way through the legal visa system channels.

Seems we have similar experiences, you breaking the law, and me not. I spent multiple years in the SW working for Joint Task Force VI and the El Paso Intelligence Center, EPIC. Coming across the border as mules, alone, with criminal intent, or to visit neighbors is a crime. Period!

Did you see me ask a question? Of course I am a criminal in he eyes of a law. So were about the 300 people swimming along with me those two days.

You myopic adherence to current policy settings ignores that with a wave of a pen things can change.

And we don't have to suffer the pedantic immovability that people like yourselves seem to have.

As I said earlier. Thailand manages the same problem of a million plus irregular entries with an policy elegance that I can't for any reason understand why then US can apply in a similar manner.

Well I can think of two reasons. Opponents have their heads too far up their own bottoms to realise pragmatic solutions exist outside the borders of the US. Oh, and it is better to keep the situation as is to score political points. The right know that even if they are in charge and do nothing, the can always be able to slam the left on this.

Edited July 5, 2015 by samran

[Ulysses G.]

Everyone is making a major production out of what Trump said, but in reality, there are a hell of a lot of people who agree with his comments.

That illegal immigrants are rapists? All of them, or just some? Trump didn't specify, so it was a generalisation, and a nasty sweeping one at that.

What Trump said was basically true, but I don't like the way he said it. There is no getting around the fact that some Mexicans are bringing drugs and crime to the US and that some are rapists, but saying that "some are good people", makes it sound like they are the minority and I'm pretty sure that is not correct.

"[Mexico] are sending people that have lots of problems, and they are bringing those problems to us. They are bringing drugs, and bringing crime, and their rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

-Donald Trump

Ahhhh...You see, the OP and another thread on this forum both make a slightly different quote; " "They're bringing drugs," he said. "They're bringing crime. They're rapists.""

If it was as you say...OK.

But if it was as the OP reports...then he did make a sweeping and nasty generalisation.

Mine is a direct quote. The OP is quoting sentences out of context. That is why I looked it up.

[arjunadawn]

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

It is hardly a matter of opinion, yet you say you broke the law then ask if this makes you a criminal? If you do not know the answer or otherwise suspect an idiot would read your post and offer "no, you are not a criminal" then you are silly. This is an example of the exercising law through liberal echo chambers. Numerous people in America now openly assert that breaking the law is not actually breaking the law and illegals are actually immigrants. No. They are not. Immigrants are those countless other people working their way through the legal visa system channels.

Seems we have similar experiences, you breaking the law, and me not. I spent multiple years in the SW working for Joint Task Force VI and the El Paso Intelligence Center, EPIC. Coming across the border as mules, alone, with criminal intent, or to visit neighbors is a crime. Period!

Did you see me ask a question? Of course I am a criminal in he eyes of a law. So were about the 300 people swimming along with me those two days.

You myopic adherence to current policy settings ignores that with a wave of a pen things can change.

And we don't have to suffer the pedantic immovability that people like yourselves seem to have.

As I said earlier. Thailand manages the same problem of a million plus irregular entries with an policy elegance that I can't for any reason understand why then US can apply in a similar manner.

Well I can think of two reasons. Opponents have their heads too far up their own bottoms to realise pragmatic solutions exist outside the borders of the US. Oh, and it is better to keep the situation as is to score political points. The right know that even if they are in charge and do nothing, the can always be able to slam the left on this.

Ah. Sorry. I was mistaken, you were announcing that you are a criminal. Yes, that supports my concept of liberal echo chambers changing laws through civil disobeience of refusal to comply. Ok, there is a tradition of this as well in the west. If a law is unjust, disobey it. I agree. I would prefer liberals were open about this as you are, then. Instead, they attempt to change word meaning. Indeed, it is not a question you pose but a declaration. I disagree but I respect your candor.

[samran]

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

It is hardly a matter of opinion, yet you say you broke the law then ask if this makes you a criminal? If you do not know the answer or otherwise suspect an idiot would read your post and offer "no, you are not a criminal" then you are silly. This is an example of the exercising law through liberal echo chambers. Numerous people in America now openly assert that breaking the law is not actually breaking the law and illegals are actually immigrants. No. They are not. Immigrants are those countless other people working their way through the legal visa system channels.

Seems we have similar experiences, you breaking the law, and me not. I spent multiple years in the SW working for Joint Task Force VI and the El Paso Intelligence Center, EPIC. Coming across the border as mules, alone, with criminal intent, or to visit neighbors is a crime. Period!

Did you see me ask a question? Of course I am a criminal in he eyes of a law. So were about the 300 people swimming along with me those two days.

You myopic adherence to current policy settings ignores that with a wave of a pen things can change.

And we don't have to suffer the pedantic immovability that people like yourselves seem to have.

As I said earlier. Thailand manages the same problem of a million plus irregular entries with an policy elegance that I can't for any reason understand why then US can apply in a similar manner.

Well I can think of two reasons. Opponents have their heads too far up their own bottoms to realise pragmatic solutions exist outside the borders of the US. Oh, and it is better to keep the situation as is to score political points. The right know that even if they are in charge and do nothing, the can always be able to slam the left on this.

Ah. Sorry. I was mistaken, you were announcing that you are a criminal. Yes, that supports my concept of liberal echo chambers changing laws through civil disobeience of refusal to comply. Ok, there is a tradition of this as well in the west. If a law is unjust, disobey it. I agree. I would prefer liberals were open about this as you are, then. Instead, they attempt to change word meaning. Indeed, it is not a question you pose but a declaration. I disagree but I respect your candor.

Understand now. The big picture stuff is clearly over your head. You are a functionary. Nothing more.

I may have committed a crime. But you and your mates watched on in some cases, or were no where to be seen in other places.

Clearly not doing your jobs either.

[arjunadawn]

It is hardly a matter of opinion, yet you say you broke the law then ask if this makes you a criminal? If you do not know the answer or otherwise suspect an idiot would read your post and offer "no, you are not a criminal" then you are silly. This is an example of the exercising law through liberal echo chambers. Numerous people in America now openly assert that breaking the law is not actually breaking the law and illegals are actually immigrants. No. They are not. Immigrants are those countless other people working their way through the legal visa system channels.

Seems we have similar experiences, you breaking the law, and me not. I spent multiple years in the SW working for Joint Task Force VI and the El Paso Intelligence Center, EPIC. Coming across the border as mules, alone, with criminal intent, or to visit neighbors is a crime. Period!

Did you see me ask a question? Of course I am a criminal in he eyes of a law. So were about the 300 people swimming along with me those two days.

You myopic adherence to current policy settings ignores that with a wave of a pen things can change.

And we don't have to suffer the pedantic immovability that people like yourselves seem to have.

As I said earlier. Thailand manages the same problem of a million plus irregular entries with an policy elegance that I can't for any reason understand why then US can apply in a similar manner.

Well I can think of two reasons. Opponents have their heads too far up their own bottoms to realise pragmatic solutions exist outside the borders of the US. Oh, and it is better to keep the situation as is to score political points. The right know that even if they are in charge and do nothing, the can always be able to slam the left on this.

Ah. Sorry. I was mistaken, you were announcing that you are a criminal. Yes, that supports my concept of liberal echo chambers changing laws through civil disobeience of refusal to comply. Ok, there is a tradition of this as well in the west. If a law is unjust, disobey it. I agree. I would prefer liberals were open about this as you are, then. Instead, they attempt to change word meaning. Indeed, it is not a question you pose but a declaration. I disagree but I respect your candor.

Understand now. The big picture stuff is clearly over your head. You are a functionary. Nothing more.

I may have committed a crime. But you and your mates watched on in some cases, or were no where to be seen in other places.

Clearly not doing your jobs either.

How absurd, and rude. I was a special forces solider assisting federal law enforcement by reporting illegal movements. Don't pacify your contempt of the law by presuming others share your disregard of the law. It is not suggestive but illustrative that you resort to personal attacks after my efforts to clearly refrain from this. You sir, identify your unique character forever on these few simple posts.

[ggt]

"They're bringing drugs," he said. "They're bringing crime. They're rapists."

He forgot..."They bring murderers"...

Few politicians feel free to speak their mind...

The truth shall set you free...

It is time to tell it like it is and quit pussyfooting around the illegal immigration national disaster...

[wabothai]

America's love affair with tycoons running for the ultimate power becomes like a soap opera.

[Gandtee]

Then Jeb should take his sorry ass back to Mexico, where he wished he was from...

Trump is a loose cannon, but he does have a point when it comes to illegal immigration in the US...

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/sorry-donald-trump-has-a-point-119662.html#.VZh6sBOqqko

I thought the Caucasians were the original illegal immigrants in the USA

[chuckd]

No, as admitted, he did not specify. Nevertheless, by definition, illegals are criminals but by definition they are not all racists.

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

You may well be a criminal but I seriously doubt if these simple actions would or could be called criminal in nature.

I know of no laws that say a legal alien might not assist a friend in a garage sale, even to the extent of actually handling money.

Crossing the Rio Grande in Big Bend while casually swimming would hardly be called illegal immigration, depending on what sort of US visa you entered the US on.

My guess would be you were in violation of the laws of Mexico more than anything else...assuming you were in the US legally to begin with.

I could be wrong, I often am. Perhaps Publicus will be along shortly and give us all the latest Supreme Court decision on swimming in the Rio Grande.

[beechguy]

No, as admitted, he did not specify. Nevertheless, by definition, illegals are criminals but by definition they are not all racists.

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

You may well be a criminal but I seriously doubt if these simple actions would or could be called criminal in nature.

I know of no laws that say a legal alien might not assist a friend in a garage sale, even to the extent of actually handling money.

Crossing the Rio Grande in Big Bend while casually swimming would hardly be called illegal immigration, depending on what sort of US visa you entered the US on.

My guess would be you were in violation of the laws of Mexico more than anything else...assuming you were in the US legally to begin with.

I could be wrong, I often am. Perhaps Publicus will be along shortly and give us all the latest Supreme Court decision on swimming in the Rio Grande.

Actually, I'm impressed he bothered to go there. I would have thought he would've been too afraid of the guns, and lord knows where Johnny Depp was, and what kind of dogs he had at the time.

Edited July 5, 2015 by beechguy

[thrilled]

Trump is telling the truth.The poll shows he's moved up.but NBC,cbs,abc trying to put him down.As far as Bush he wants all

Mexicans to live in The U.S. The average American don't want Mexicans in America.Theres 15 million n the U.S. As it is.

California is going bankrupt because of them.The prisons are full of Mexicans.

[arjunadawn]

No, as admitted, he did not specify. Nevertheless, by definition, illegals are criminals but by definition they are not all racists.

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

You may well be a criminal but I seriously doubt if these simple actions would or could be called criminal in nature.

I know of no laws that say a legal alien might not assist a friend in a garage sale, even to the extent of actually handling money.

Crossing the Rio Grande in Big Bend while casually swimming would hardly be called illegal immigration, depending on what sort of US visa you entered the US on.

My guess would be you were in violation of the laws of Mexico more than anything else...assuming you were in the US legally to begin with.

I could be wrong, I often am. Perhaps Publicus will be along shortly and give us all the latest Supreme Court decision on swimming in the Rio Grande.

He stated he was a criminal. I misread and thought he asked. In any event, crossing the border on either side bypassing valid government checkpoints is illegal. This is an example of the harmless nature that laws can act upon honest citizens. It is the dishonest or flagrant violations of the law that cause injury. The common violations simply provide watering down. Thus, illegal immigration is seen to be hardly illegal at all. The answer is to change the laws or basically civil disobedience, which is what is happening today. I have no problem with civil disobedience even when it is a law I support. It is an natural right of man to oppose that which is repugnant. Whereas this natural right pertains equally to all people it does not illegals in America, etc. You do not illegally enter a country and protest the laws you broke. It take a formidable intellect to argue this is okay with a straight face.

[Jay Sata]

What the Republicans need right now is Sarah Palin to help out with a few decent quotes backed up by Sean Hannity,Bill O'Reilly and Fox News.

Why has Glen Beck not thrown his hat in to the ring?

Bring back Jim and Tammy Bakker for the bible belt vote.

American politics..don't you just love them?

Edited July 5, 2015 by Jay Sata

[theoldgit]

Off topic and inappropriate remark removed.

[samran]

No, as admitted, he did not specify. Nevertheless, by definition, illegals are criminals but by definition they are not all racists.

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

You may well be a criminal but I seriously doubt if these simple actions would or could be called criminal in nature.

I know of no laws that say a legal alien might not assist a friend in a garage sale, even to the extent of actually handling money.

Crossing the Rio Grande in Big Bend while casually swimming would hardly be called illegal immigration, depending on what sort of US visa you entered the US on.

My guess would be you were in violation of the laws of Mexico more than anything else...assuming you were in the US legally to begin with.

I could be wrong, I often am. Perhaps Publicus will be along shortly and give us all the latest Supreme Court decision on swimming in the Rio Grande.

Actually, I'm impressed he bothered to go there. I would have thought he would've been too afraid of the guns, and lord knows where Johnny Depp was, and what kind of dogs he had at the time.

It's a stunning place, one of my favourite places in the US. Have a real soft spot for Texas and the South west.

[samran]

No, as admitted, he did not specify. Nevertheless, by definition, illegals are criminals but by definition they are not all racists.

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

You may well be a criminal but I seriously doubt if these simple actions would or could be called criminal in nature.

I know of no laws that say a legal alien might not assist a friend in a garage sale, even to the extent of actually handling money.

Crossing the Rio Grande in Big Bend while casually swimming would hardly be called illegal immigration, depending on what sort of US visa you entered the US on.

My guess would be you were in violation of the laws of Mexico more than anything else...assuming you were in the US legally to begin with.

I could be wrong, I often am. Perhaps Publicus will be along shortly and give us all the latest Supreme Court decision on swimming in the Rio Grande.

You probably are right. I had a perfectly valid visa for the US.

Conceptually I have no problems with border protection.

My main point is that if our resident special forces members can't protect the border, and let's face it, despite their best efforts and a truck load of cash, tax payers cash, people still get through, then you need to wonder how long you can keep doing the same old stupid things and still expect a positive outcome?

Surely a better way is that you face upto the economic reality, you both need each other? A quickly issued seasonal work permit for Central American citizens on the production of a police clearance. At the border. They work and pay taxes. Win win.

Then you know that whoever else is crossing, odds are, have serious criminal intent and you can focus on them instread.

[JDGRUEN]

What the Republicans need right now is Sarah Palin to help out with a few decent quotes backed up by Sean Hannity,Bill O'Reilly and Fox News.

Why has Glen Beck not thrown his hat in to the ring?

Bring back Jim and Tammy Bakker for the bible belt vote.

American politics..don't you just love them?

Especially since you do not understand it and can only resort to comic quip analysis... thus revealing that your statements are the whole of your understanding ...

Edited July 6, 2015 by JDGRUEN

[Credo]

No, as admitted, he did not specify. Nevertheless, by definition, illegals are criminals but by definition they are not all racists.

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

You may well be a criminal but I seriously doubt if these simple actions would or could be called criminal in nature.

I know of no laws that say a legal alien might not assist a friend in a garage sale, even to the extent of actually handling money.

Crossing the Rio Grande in Big Bend while casually swimming would hardly be called illegal immigration, depending on what sort of US visa you entered the US on.

My guess would be you were in violation of the laws of Mexico more than anything else...assuming you were in the US legally to begin with.

I could be wrong, I often am. Perhaps Publicus will be along shortly and give us all the latest Supreme Court decision on swimming in the Rio Grande.

You probably are right. I had a perfectly valid visa for the US.

Conceptually I have no problems with border protection.

My main point is that if our resident special forces members can't protect the border, and let's face it, despite their best efforts and a truck load of cash, tax payers cash, people still get through, then you need to wonder how long you can keep doing the same old stupid things and still expect a positive outcome?

Surely a better way is that you face upto the economic reality, you both need each other? A quickly issued seasonal work permit for Central American citizens on the production of a police clearance. At the border. They work and pay taxes. Win win.

Then you know that whoever else is crossing, odds are, have serious criminal intent and you can focus on them instread.

I believe it has been said before, but work visas are permitted in the US, as is seasonal work in the farming sector.

[JDGRUEN]

Then Jeb should take his sorry ass back to Mexico, where he wished he was from...

Trump is a loose cannon, but he does have a point when it comes to illegal immigration in the US...

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/sorry-donald-trump-has-a-point-119662.html#.VZh6sBOqqko

One thing about a very rich guy of wealth independent of the political system, he can simply say what he believes to be the truth... No matter how much others want to do the Politically Correct talk and hide the truth. PC is just society imposed censorship and is most often done by an opposing political side to shut the other side up from telling the truth of the matter. And the truth is Illegal Aliens commit a higher frequency of serious crimes out of proportion to their numbers - even at a number of 20 million.

And course dumb butt Jeb has his Hispanic wife to protect who is of dodgy citizenship legality - a wife who was also caught attempting to smuggle considerable contraband through customs some years back. Jeb has this insane idea that coddling and pandering for the Hispanic vote in 2016 will get him elected. Foolish thinking as today's Hispanics - who more often have emotional connections to the illegal alien issue because of many many family relationships ARE NEVER going to vote Republican in any significant numbers -- Jeb is a Fool on a fool's errand.

Conservatives who make up a huge core of the Republican vote HATE Jeb Bush who pretends to be a Conservative when election time comes around. And the only reason Jeb is in the race is money, support from the GOP/RNC and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce -- everyone but the core Republican voter. Jeb will not make it through the Primaries. Considering that Jeb's only stellar performance was being an very good leader in managing Hurricane safety and communications procedures for several severe hurricanes in Florida, Jeb should be considered for FEMA Director and that is as high as he should go.

Trump calls 'em as he sees 'em because he is free to pursue the truth - free of the speech shackles of Political Correctness ... The Mexican border is a open highway totally infringing on Sovereignty of the United States of America. Democrats do not want to seal this border as it would stop the flow of future undocumented Democrat voters. And then there are the Elitists so called Republican Leadership - also knows as RINOs -- Republicans in Name Only.. out numbered by conservatives 10 to 1 but somehow the RINOs keep a stranglehold on Republican politics. RINOs cannot stop their foolish addiction of hating their huge core of voters and wining and dining illegal aliens .. instead of working to get 10-12-15 percent of the 50 million adult Americans who consistently do not vote every Presidential election to vote Republican... Too much work - when the RINOs can just give the country away to illegal aliens.

[JDGRUEN]

Then Jeb should take his sorry ass back to Mexico, where he wished he was from...

Trump is a loose cannon, but he does have a point when it comes to illegal immigration in the US...

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/sorry-donald-trump-has-a-point-119662.html#.VZh6sBOqqko

I thought the Caucasians were the original illegal immigrants in the USA

The American Indian was worn down in just another chapter of human migration going on for thousands of years. Today's Americans, if their political leaders were not cowards would have solved this problem long ago - in the same vein as President Eisenhower did by deporting millions of them before they became such a big problem. Today - if there was any courage among leaders -- the current laws would be enforced - jobs would be cut off, welfare benefits would be cut off and over 3 to 5 years the majority of the illegal aliens would self-deport and go back to their own countries to solve the problems there that made them leave in the first place.

[samran]

No, as admitted, he did not specify. Nevertheless, by definition, illegals are criminals but by definition they are not all racists.

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

You may well be a criminal but I seriously doubt if these simple actions would or could be called criminal in nature.

I know of no laws that say a legal alien might not assist a friend in a garage sale, even to the extent of actually handling money.

Crossing the Rio Grande in Big Bend while casually swimming would hardly be called illegal immigration, depending on what sort of US visa you entered the US on.

My guess would be you were in violation of the laws of Mexico more than anything else...assuming you were in the US legally to begin with.

I could be wrong, I often am. Perhaps Publicus will be along shortly and give us all the latest Supreme Court decision on swimming in the Rio Grande.

You probably are right. I had a perfectly valid visa for the US.

Conceptually I have no problems with border protection.

My main point is that if our resident special forces members can't protect the border, and let's face it, despite their best efforts and a truck load of cash, tax payers cash, people still get through, then you need to wonder how long you can keep doing the same old stupid things and still expect a positive outcome?

Surely a better way is that you face upto the economic reality, you both need each other? A quickly issued seasonal work permit for Central American citizens on the production of a police clearance. At the border. They work and pay taxes. Win win.

Then you know that whoever else is crossing, odds are, have serious criminal intent and you can focus on them instread.

I believe it has been said before, but work visas are permitted in the US, as is seasonal work in the farming sector.

Clearly it isn't working too well is it?

[Credo]

I don't know. It probably works quite well because the people who enter are employed. And these include seasonal workers.

The ones entering illegally are not usually employed on a full-time regular basis.

The movement of people back and forth across the border has been going on for eons of time; certainly since there was a border to cross. When the economy was in the crapper, the net migration was back into Mexico. As the economy improves, the migration will be the other way around.

The difficulty is that those working legally in the US have certain rights, and that includes wages and benefits. If they have a child, the child is a US citizen.

Unlike Australia, the US is not an island and it is connected to other countries. And unlike Thailand, those who work legally in the country (and many who work illegally) will have wages and benefits under the law.

Removing many of the illegals is not easy as it requires a deportation hearing, unless they go voluntarily. Some of them entered legally, but since entering their documents have expired. Some now have families in the US and are eligible for immigration. There are a lot of variables and there will be a huge expense to try and remove them in large numbers.

[samran]

I don't know. It probably works quite well because the people who enter are employed. And these include seasonal workers.

The ones entering illegally are not usually employed on a full-time regular basis.

The movement of people back and forth across the border has been going on for eons of time; certainly since there was a border to cross. When the economy was in the crapper, the net migration was back into Mexico. As the economy improves, the migration will be the other way around.

The difficulty is that those working legally in the US have certain rights, and that includes wages and benefits. If they have a child, the child is a US citizen.

Unlike Australia, the US is not an island and it is connected to other countries. And unlike Thailand, those who work legally in the country (and many who work illegally) will have wages and benefits under the law.

Removing many of the illegals is not easy as it requires a deportation hearing, unless they go voluntarily. Some of them entered legally, but since entering their documents have expired. Some now have families in the US and are eligible for immigration. There are a lot of variables and there will be a huge expense to try and remove them in large numbers.

Then maybe one of the things to do is change the constitution on the issue of those being born on US soil being automatic US citizens? It would certainly take off the table one of the reasons for coming....

As for the Thai comparison, legal migrant workers do get full rights under the law including statutory minimum pay and health care (as well as the ability to walk the streets unharassed). Things like this can and do act as an incentive to do things the right way.

Nothing will be perfect, but clearly what is happinging now is the worse possible solution of all.

[samran]

This is one of the best articles on illegal immigration I've read recently; and it was actually published in the Huffington Post of all places;

President Obama: Close the Border or Risk Civil War

"As any grade-schooler, let alone a graduate of Harvard Law School, knows, the first job of a US President is to protect the homeland. Nothing comes before that sacred duty. Not famine abroad, not health insurance at home, not even Lilly Ledbetter. The President exercises this primary function as the Commander-in-Chief. And the most elemental expression of the Commander-in-Chief role is border security.

President Barack Obama has made a running joke of this mandate. After busying himself playing pool and drinking beer with the Governor of Colorado on Tuesday (to the shocked dismay of at least one Texas Democrat), on Wednesday the President had the chutzpah to proclaim that he will not forthrightly halt the flow of illegal immigrants into this Recession-racked country until Republicans sign off on amnesty for the millions of illegal immigrants already here.

With that cowardly, cynical statement, it is now sadly clear to this columnist that Mr. Obama -- whose progressive stances on environmental protection, gay marriage, and ending the war in Iraq I fulsomely backed -- has zero interest in fully protecting our borders. He and the Democratic Party have too much to gain demographically -- and, thus, politically -- by minting newly indebted voters through making the US a magnet for illegal immigration. It's Chicago Machine patronage on a grand and twisted scale.

The facts speak for themselves. Of the reported 240,000 migrants -- 52,000 of them children -- that have arrived illegally in the last several months (with 300,000 more currently on their way), a Senate hearing yesterday confirmed that only 10% were actually sent back to their host countries. If you are sitting in Central America and calculating your chances of gaining a relatively comfy new life in America -- on Uncle Sam's dime -- those are pretty good odds.

It gets worse.

Only 10% of unaccompanied minors required by law to show up for immigration status hearings actually showed up, a U.S. Immigration and Customs official testified Wednesday. And only 46% of illegal immigrant children accompanied by an adult actually showed up for status hearings..."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-marshall-crotty/democrats-to-obama-get-th_b_5575069.html

It was Regan I think who said that Latino's are republican's. They just don't know it yet.

I think he was right. Catholic, socially conservative. Family orientated. Hard working. Perfect GOP voters.

If only the GOP didn't go out of its way to insult them at every turn, maybe they'd start winning elections.

[Berkshire]

Then Jeb should take his sorry ass back to Mexico, where he wished he was from...

Trump is a loose cannon, but he does have a point when it comes to illegal immigration in the US...

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/sorry-donald-trump-has-a-point-119662.html#.VZh6sBOqqko

One thing about a very rich guy of wealth independent of the political system, he can simply say what he believes to be the truth... No matter how much others want to do the Politically Correct talk and hide the truth. PC is just society imposed censorship and is most often done by an opposing political side to shut the other side up from telling the truth of the matter. And the truth is Illegal Aliens commit a higher frequency of serious crimes out of proportion to their numbers - even at a number of 20 million.

And course dumb butt Jeb has his Hispanic wife to protect who is of dodgy citizenship legality - a wife who was also caught attempting to smuggle considerable contraband through customs some years back. Jeb has this insane idea that coddling and pandering for the Hispanic vote in 2016 will get him elected. Foolish thinking as today's Hispanics - who more often have emotional connections to the illegal alien issue because of many many family relationships ARE NEVER going to vote Republican in any significant numbers -- Jeb is a Fool on a fool's errand.

Conservatives who make up a huge core of the Republican vote HATE Jeb Bush who pretends to be a Conservative when election time comes around. And the only reason Jeb is in the race is money, support from the GOP/RNC and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce -- everyone but the core Republican voter. Jeb will not make it through the Primaries. Considering that Jeb's only stellar performance was being an very good leader in managing Hurricane safety and communications procedures for several severe hurricanes in Florida, Jeb should be considered for FEMA Director and that is as high as he should go.

Trump calls 'em as he sees 'em because he is free to pursue the truth - free of the speech shackles of Political Correctness ... The Mexican border is a open highway totally infringing on Sovereignty of the United States of America. Democrats do not want to seal this border as it would stop the flow of future undocumented Democrat voters. And then there are the Elitists so called Republican Leadership - also knows as RINOs -- Republicans in Name Only.. out numbered by conservatives 10 to 1 but somehow the RINOs keep a stranglehold on Republican politics. RINOs cannot stop their foolish addiction of hating their huge core of voters and wining and dining illegal aliens .. instead of working to get 10-12-15 percent of the 50 million adult Americans who consistently do not vote every Presidential election to vote Republican... Too much work - when the RINOs can just give the country away to illegal aliens.

You make a very strong case. Unfortunately, the strong case you're making is how the GOP is a dying party. Jeb Bush has the best chance of winning the general election next year. I can't think of one other Republican candidate who can reach the diverse American electorate like J. Bush, yet, the right wingers are tearing this guy to shreds. What the core of the GOP consistently fails to see is that America is changing and most Americans do not subscribe to their values and beliefs. The right wing of America is becoming a smaller and smaller minority. That's a good thing.

[Scott]

A post violating fair use rules has been removed.

[Publicus]

No, as admitted, he did not specify. Nevertheless, by definition, illegals are criminals but by definition they are not all racists.

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

You may well be a criminal but I seriously doubt if these simple actions would or could be called criminal in nature.

I know of no laws that say a legal alien might not assist a friend in a garage sale, even to the extent of actually handling money.

Crossing the Rio Grande in Big Bend while casually swimming would hardly be called illegal immigration, depending on what sort of US visa you entered the US on.

My guess would be you were in violation of the laws of Mexico more than anything else...assuming you were in the US legally to begin with.

I could be wrong, I often am. Perhaps Publicus will be along shortly and give us all the latest Supreme Court decision on swimming in the Rio Grande.

Perhaps Publicus will be along shortly and give us all the latest Supreme Court decision on swimming in the Rio Grande.

Turn around time on this special request is less than 24 hours I'm pleased to say

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES

U. S. v. RIO GRANDE DAM & IRRIGATION CO. (1939)

By the 7th article of the treaty of February 2d, 1848, between the United States and the Republic of Mexico, we cannot resist the conviction that if we proceed to a final decree upon the present record, great wrong may be done to the United States, as well as to all interested in preserving the Rio Grande. The decree must be reversed It is so ordered.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/184/416

http://digitool.library.colostate.edu///exlibris/dtl/d3_1/apache_media/L2V4bGlicmlzL2R0bC9kM18xL2FwYWNoZV9tZWRpYS8yMDU1MTg=.pdf

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES

October 28, 1938

Rio Grande River Compact

STATE OF TEXAS and STATE OF NEW MEXICO, Plairitlffs,.

vs.

STATE OF COLORADO, Defendant.

Original MEMORANDUM OF THE PARTIES RELATIVE To MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE

WHEREAS, On March 18, 1938, an interstate compact equitably apportioning the waters of the Rio Grande above Fort Quitman, Texas, was executed by commissioners for the States of Colorado, New Mexico and Texas and approved by a representative of the United States government;

The States of Colorado, Texas and New Mexico advise the Court that agreement has been reached among the parties in this cause.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/215/266.html

Couldn't find anything in the Decree or in the Agreement about swimming in the Rio Grande so I'm pleased to say that should make both of youse guyz right. As always, the Rio Grande remains a free dipping zone.

[arjunadawn]

No, as admitted, he did not specify. Nevertheless, by definition, illegals are criminals but by definition they are not all racists.

Fark me.

Big Bend National Park in 2000.

Spent two days camping there. Swam along the Rio Grande both days. Must have crossed back into the US illegally without paperwork a couple of dozen times.

Helped out at a friends yard sale in 1996. Collected money and sold stuff. Seattle Washington.

I'm a criminal too then.

You may well be a criminal but I seriously doubt if these simple actions would or could be called criminal in nature.

I know of no laws that say a legal alien might not assist a friend in a garage sale, even to the extent of actually handling money.

Crossing the Rio Grande in Big Bend while casually swimming would hardly be called illegal immigration, depending on what sort of US visa you entered the US on.

My guess would be you were in violation of the laws of Mexico more than anything else...assuming you were in the US legally to begin with.

I could be wrong, I often am. Perhaps Publicus will be along shortly and give us all the latest Supreme Court decision on swimming in the Rio Grande.

You probably are right. I had a perfectly valid visa for the US.

Conceptually I have no problems with border protection.

My main point is that if our resident special forces members can't protect the border, and let's face it, despite their best efforts and a truck load of cash, tax payers cash, people still get through, then you need to wonder how long you can keep doing the same old stupid things and still expect a positive outcome?

Surely a better way is that you face upto the economic reality, you both need each other? A quickly issued seasonal work permit for Central American citizens on the production of a police clearance. At the border. They work and pay taxes. Win win.

Then you know that whoever else is crossing, odds are, have serious criminal intent and you can focus on them instread.

US Military is bound by posse comitutus. The only thing non navy personnel can do is report and assist. All arrests and such must be done by federal law enforcement. It is as equally cheap to suggest people like me are responsible for the problem as to suggest people like you are the problem. You are not. As evidenced by your own commentary you were just a regular guy doing regular life cycle things around the border. People living around the border are both protected and harassed by the border. But under no framework would any suggest "best efforts" have been applied to seal a border. People will always get through. That is not the problem nor the goal. The problem is an entire civilization migrating. Hardly the benign situation portrayed.

I do not disagree with you at all regarding some mechanism for legality as you suggest. I just oppose illegality and no control. Your suggestion seems totally commonsense. However, with no followup mechanism and no punishment for overstay, it is another paper tiger de facto amnesty. Another open door.

[MaxYakov]

Bush to Trump: Flintlocks at 20 paces, Sir!

(The Republican field could use a culling)

Edited July 6, 2015 by MaxYakov