Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[stephenterry]

Here's another scenario. In all probability Hannah was not alone when she walked the beach. It would be reckless. David maybe,but it could have been the running woman spotted on cctv. A foursome with two guys? At the crime scene an argument leading to assault. The woman runs but Hannah doesn't. David is close by comes to the rescue,but is attacked. The rest follows.

[catsanddogs]

< snip >

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_thai_murder_trial_to_focus_on_migrants_arrest_1_4159352

Finally some news. So if it goes according to this report and the prosecution is focusing on the arrest and interrogation of the B2 be prepared for more farcical and seriously flawed evidence presented. Can't wait to hear what the rotti seller has to say and also the questions from the defense which should include why the RTP refused to meet the Human RightsTeam to answer the allegations of torture of the B2.

Also good to see it in print by a reputable newspaper that the Thai media have been warned to stay away.

You left out 'apparently' that they have been warned to stay away. And 'Staff Reporters' as source for the copy -- do they have persons stationed on Koh Samui or is this from Reuters, maybe.

Noted.

Apparently they have been warned to stay away.

I also missed out these words -

The Thai media is barely covering the case.

There - happy now?

[JLCrab]

Maybe the Thai media just has a good gauge of the interests of their audience.

[fish fingers]

Sean claims he was meant to meet david but fell asleep and never went out, how would he have any evidence ? unless he was lying about being in bed all night, which then means there is a very good chance he was with David.

How Does Mon Know sean was meant to meet David ? or did he just randomly pick Sean ?

Looking at the kind of unsavoury person Sean is I doubt anything he says. His social media messages were bordering on contradictory and he was having to backtrack a few times on comments he made. I doubt he was the good friend of Davids he states. "I loved you so f****** much brother. I know you tried to save her."

[catsanddogs]

Here's another scenario. In all probability Hannah was not alone when she walked the beach. It would be reckless. David maybe,but it could have been the running woman spotted on cctv. A foursome with two guys? At the crime scene an argument leading to assault. The woman runs but Hannah doesn't. David is close by comes to the rescue,but is attacked. The rest follows.

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am. Their bodies were found at 6am.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763277/Was-British-backpacker-trying-help-woman-distress-New-evidence-suggests-David-Miller-coming-aid-Hannah-Witheridge-killed.html#ixzz3gQeG9ZzI

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[bunglebag]

I cannot completely eliminate the possibility that Sean was lying about staying in bed all night. However, he was known on the island. I find it quite unlikely that he could have wandered around, meeting David, and no one he knew saw him, and he avoided all the CCTV cameras.

The answer to your question as to why Sean ran from the island is pretty obvious. He had upset Mon, and fully believed that the Koh Tao mafia was capable of killing him. His claim that Mon wanted to frame him for the murders may also be genuine. This was well before the Burmese kids were chosen as scapegoats. Do you really think Sean's panicked phone calls and Facebook post from the 7-11 the night before he left was some kind of act? That is not to say he does not know who the real killers are. He quite likely does. I doubt he has evidence. Speculation: after escaping from Thailand, he may have been given money to keep quiet.

So why randomly pick Sean someone who knew David ? What are the Odds of picking a random westerner and that person being connected to the victim ?

In this article Mon explains why he went after sean

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

He had blood on his Guitar in the interview with the media (he could of put his own blood on it on purpose as a cover story its almost as if he is showing it off)

Firstly, I think we are in agreement that the choice of Sean was not random. Sean knew Mon quite well, and Mon was well aware that Sean was a "friend" of David's. One floated theory, when considering Sean as a scapegoat, was to present it as a crime of jealousy (i.e. a love triangle involving Sean, David and Hannah). This was laughable, considering Sean hardly knew Hannah, and wisely not pursued.

I am well aware of Mon's story about the blood cleanup in a spa by someone who apparently did not want to talk to police. I wonder which spa was open at about 4:00 am (the supposed time of the murder) and how Sean avoided being caught on any CCTV. I do not fully believe Sean's version of events either, but Mon's statement is a load of manure.

It was claimed A women who works in a spa helped him clean the blood not in spa. im not sure if this is the same women he claimed help get him of the island

alot of interesting stuff on Sean here

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/tag/sean-mcanna/

Also has anyone got a photo of NS on koh Tao ? Not date specific just on Koh tao ?

I cast no accusations with my reply. My mind is still open, but you asked for a pic.

Must admit I've not yet seen many, but here is one of him in AC bar. This was pre Sept 2014, but I can't tell you precisely when. Is that one of the bouncers top left too?

https://crimesontheblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/10469417_272467849618496_8513290244234435491_n.jpg

Edited July 20, 2015 by bunglebag

[StealthEnergiser]

Today's coverage in the Norfolk local paper:

The trial of two men accused of killing Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge is this week expected to focus on the arrest and interrogation of the two Burmese suspects.

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Court timetable

July 22-24 – prosecution

August 18-21 – prosecution

August 27-28 – prosecution

September 1-2 – defence

September 22-24 – defence

September 25 – wrap-up statements.

October – verdict

Lawyers, and possibly the victims’ families, are expected to return to court in Koh Samui as the trial continues of the two suspects accused of killing Miss Witheridge, 23, of Hemsby, near Great Yarmouth, and fellow tourist David Miller, 24, of Jersey.

Burmese migrants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, also known as Win Zaw Htun, stand charged with murder and rape on the neighbouring Thai island of Koh Tao.

The Thai media is barely covering the case, apparently having been warned to stay away.

Miss Witheridge’s father and brother and Mr Miller’s family have sat through hours of painstaking and distressing testimony.

Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

More than 100 witnesses in total are expected to testify between now and the end of September.

For the defence team, who are all working for free, and include senior members of the Lawyers Council of Thailand, the priority has been to retest the DNA evidence taken from the scene. The defence believes the DNA evidence has been contaminated. However, it has only been partially successful in its demands.

Police Lieutenant-Colonel Somsak Nurod, the Chief of Police for Koh Tao and Koh Phangnan islands, caused consternation when he was quoted as saying crucial DNA evidence had been “lost”.

He later clarified that all DNA evidence gathered at the scene had been used up in testing. Later the defence team was told only single swabs had been taken from Miss Witheridge’s and Mr Miller’s bodies and they were no longer viable for testing.

However, permission was granted to test the alleged murder weapon, a garden hoe. An employee at an adjacent resort claimed in court that he had found it, after discovering the bodies on the beach; washed it, and moved it to his vegetable patch.

He said police later gave him a rubber glove and told him to put it back where he had found it. The hoe was never properly forensically tested.

Other crucial evidence, revealed for the first time in court, included the police doctor’s finding that none of Miss Witheridge’s DNA was found on Mr Miller’s body, but a two-inch long blonde hair was found clutched in Miss Witheridge’s hand with the root still attached.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_and_david_miller_thai_murder_trial_to_focus_on_migrants_arrest_1_4159352

Another report saying the hoe washed

However, permission was granted to test the alleged murder weapon, a garden hoe. An employee at an adjacent resort claimed in court that he had found it, after discovering the bodies on the beach; washed it, and moved it to his vegetable patch.

[JLCrab]

Those are some interesting scenarios above. However, shortly after the murders took place, I asked, if the locals were involved, why did they not just get a long-tail boat, some rope, and a bunch of heavy cement blocks and dump the weighted-down bodies way out in the gulf.

The answer was generally: Too many people would know.

Oh well, ...

I would suggest that this was the result of an extremely poor choice of getaway boat driver.

Beachfront Murders 101: When selecting a getaway boat driver it is wise to avoid the guy who brings his meth pipe to the interview and whose home address refers to a cave... e.g. "Cave No. 7, 23/14 Moo 5....." It is a well-known fact that tweakers spook easily and have a habit of forgetting things... like some rope... and a bunch of heavy cement blocks...

The guy probably took one look at the bloodbath of a crime scene and said the Thai equivalent of "What the <deleted>...! I never signed up for this sh*t... I'll take the skinny dude who's still alive but I ain't taking them other two. Why don't you try Uber..." and got the hell out of there, only to realize a short time later that he'd also forgotten to bring the map, and so had to ask for directions...

Now admittedly there is a labor shortage in Thailand at the moment, so maybe there weren't many options available to the perps, but I think it's safe to say they won't be making this mistake next time...

And maybe the skinny guy would have said: Look -- I've already killed two people and they can only hang you once so three is no problem. Put the bodies in the boat and let's head into the Gulf or else you will be the third.

[StealthEnergiser]

[Darkknight666]

Those are some interesting scenarios above. However, shortly after the murders took place, I asked, if the locals were involved, why did they not just get a long-tail boat, some rope, and a bunch of heavy cement blocks and dump the weighted-down bodies way out in the gulf.

The answer was generally: Too many people would know.

Oh well, ...

I would suggest that this was the result of an extremely poor choice of getaway boat driver.

Beachfront Murders 101: When selecting a getaway boat driver it is wise to avoid the guy who brings his meth pipe to the interview and whose home address refers to a cave... e.g. "Cave No. 7, 23/14 Moo 5....." It is a well-known fact that tweakers spook easily and have a habit of forgetting things... like some rope... and a bunch of heavy cement blocks...

The guy probably took one look at the bloodbath of a crime scene and said the Thai equivalent of "What the <deleted>...! I never signed up for this sh*t... I'll take the skinny dude who's still alive but I ain't taking them other two. Why don't you try Uber..." and got the hell out of there, only to realize a short time later that he'd also forgotten to bring the map, and so had to ask for directions...

Now admittedly there is a labor shortage in Thailand at the moment, so maybe there weren't many options available to the perps, but I think it's safe to say they won't be making this mistake next time...

Those are my thoughts on the boat man as well... Now I just wish the "revered monk" would come out and talk, probably not safe, eh? Silenced monk.

[Tony121]

I am well aware of Mon's story about the blood cleanup in a spa by someone who apparently did not want to talk to police. I wonder which spa was open at about 4:00 am (the supposed time of the murder) and how Sean avoided being caught on any CCTV. I do not fully believe Sean's version of events either, but Mon's statement is a load of manure.

alot of interesting stuff on Sean here

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/tag/sean-mcanna/

Also has anyone got a photo of NS on koh Tao ? Not date specific just on Koh tao ?

I cast no accusations with my reply. My mind is still open, but you asked for a pic.

Must admit I've not yet seen many, but here is one of him in AC bar. This was pre Sept 2014, but I can't tell you precisely when. Is that one of the bouncers top left too?

https://crimesontheblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/10469417_272467849618496_8513290244234435491_n.jpg

Thanks for the photo,

So he looks like just any other thai kid having fun, what I can judge by the glasses he is wearing, is that he doesnt mind looking stupid or someone that doesn't take themselves to serious,

So to my next question does he look anymore guilty than the B2 does he look more capable of the crime ?

[GOLDBUGGY]

Do you realize that 99% of the stuff written on these +122 Pages is not based on any facts at all but merely speculation? That when the FACTS are reported and linked to the Media (which is the only source of information we have whether it is true or false) it is shot down as nobody believes it as it does not fit into their mind set?

But do you attack any of them? No!

You attack someone who you don't agree with and called them a liar when you have zero FACTS to back that up. Just another Hypocrite.

You want FACTS, well here is one for you.

Drugs are in FACT related to many serious crimes.

So you can stick that in your pipe and smoke that to.

Sorry you're so confused, GB. The one 'fact' you offered in the above post, is a generalization.

Tony121's fixation on drugs may or may not have a bearing on finding who the real criminals are. They do serve a function though: to divest from the topic and waste peoples' time and calories responding to their suppositions clad in figments of imagination.

RTP have purposefully not mentioned drugs (zero mention of yaba) in this case, other than the Burmese guys were drinking alcohol.

RTP have not said a peep about....

>>> whether the mafia punks deal or are involved with drugs at their beach bars

>>> whether Sean has a drug dealing connection with Thai drug dealers at the bars (there's at least on FB entry alluding to that)

>>> what, if any, drugs the two victims were doing. RTP stated on the 2nd day of the investigation that they would not release that data (if they even tested for it or had it?) ....in respect for the victims' families.

....so let's let sleeping dogs lie, and try to focus on issues which relate to the crime.

I totally agree it is pure speculation. I also agree that drugs has no bearing as far as who committed these crimes. Who gave them a drug test that night to see what condition they were in? Or for that matter a breathalyzer? So if on one hand we are going to discredit drug use then we also have discredit their statement they were drunk as well. AS neither can be proven.

Also no talk about mafia involved with drugs or any of that on the Island. But there have been posts made here with claims they are readily available on the Island. I don't know as I have never been their, but if they are then someone must be selling them.

Personally, and as I said, this drug thing has merit with me. I can't speak for anyone else or John, but I just have a difficult time believing someone could do such a horrible thing like he did with two these 2 Victims, dead sober, or not high on drugs. Who ever it may be. I am sure it happens, but I am just having a hard time believing it.

As mentioned it was pure speculation, which personally I have see a lot here without someone getting attacked for it. If a person doesn't agree then this can open an interesting discussion. But when people start attacking others just because they don't share the same opinion, then start calling them names, this is where all this wasted time has gone. I don't think anyone here wants to see post after post of nothing but arguments. If people don't want to hear some else's different opinion then go to a blog where everyone is on the same page, and where nobody different.

The Ignore Option is always available for anyone to use. Nobody is forcing anyone here to read what they write. Nobody is on Trial here.

Of course everything here is speculation, And? The only reason I feel bad at all about what I'm posting is others who just want the news have to read hundreds of comments. Sorry about that guys but I don't much care. I take this personally being that I live here and have a daughter here. What happened to Hannah could easily happen to my daughter and that falls on Thailands head. There is no justice for anyone of this case isn't taken seriously and the real killer caught.

I have a bit of experience with drug users and therefor can offer an opinoin on this whole meth thing, Meth heads brains go 1 million MPH and the first priority is staying high, second priority is not going to Jail while counting crimes for more drugs. Only a long time addict with a HISTORY of sex abuse would be likely to commit a sexual crime while on meth. So, IMO of course, The slaying of David and Hannah wasn't a random druggie rape. I'm confident in saying this because an individual high on Meth wouldn't have taken David's clothes off and stacked them in a neat pile to try and misdirect investigators(lol).

A meth head would rape, kill, run. Kind of like that speedboat guy, eh? Only speedboat guy doesn't have enough influence.

You're looking at the actions, and reading the statements of RTP at face value. You're leaving out their massive errors in this case. You're purposely trying to derail anything members post that indicate anyone other than B2. You're also cherry picking stories to fit your narrative, which is all fine. I'd just like to know why you lurk this thread day in and day out trying to convince people it couldn't be corruption and ineptitude, No it has to be those damn druggies! Damn druggie Burmese!

So, where did the Blonde hair end up? CRUCIAL evidence, Gone. And where are the samples so they can be varafied? Standard protocol to keep evidence like that.. And it's gone, why?

Someone nefarious is pulling the strings here, and I really hope to see that end. Justice is what I want... True justice. Simple.

Why do you keep dragging me in on this? I said that the person being on drugs has merit (worthy of attention) because these crimes were particularly brutal and I find it difficult to believe that this person was not on alcohol or drugs to committed these crimes. If you do not agree then fine.

I really love how you start your attack on me saying people don't want to comments they want to read news, then go to say "but here is my opinion". What you really mean to say is your opinion is the only one that counts here, or peoples who agree with you, and nobody else should have one. I have yet to see you post a single link with news on it, so please don't lecture me on making comments.

I do not do cherry picking! I give my post a quote from the media report (Topic) and then link it. I link the full article for people to read and decide for themselves. I do not cut it into small pieces and just print what might me a one sided opinion. I do not attack anyone for their opinion. I do sometimes respond to people who attack me though, for mine.

If you want True Justice then you first need an open mind, which you have displayed time and time again that you do not have. You first need to hear the evidence from both sides. As it stands now I have not heard any from the Defense. Have you? If there is strong evidence to support there innocents, or reasonable doubt at least, then it will be brought out in the Trail I would think.

If you have a daughter and are concerned about her, I would think you would want to make damned sure that the accused are not the ones who did this before you set them free. To set a murdered free, and for him to commits these rapes and murders again. As a Parent of the second raped and murdeerd victim, it must be twice as hard to accept. Especially after they were on Trail already for the same thing, but set free.

You say I purposely derail things that points to the possibility the B2 are innocent. I don't do no such thing. I welcome any evidence to suggest their innocent. I don't consider a theory or gossip as evidence, even when it sounds good. But it is people like you with poor or no information that derail yourselves. Here is a good example.

You asked me "So where did the Blonde hair end up?". "CRUCIAL evidence, Gone."

Well, since you asked me I will tell you. First off do we know for sure this Blonde Hair is missing? Some say yes, and some say no, so I say I don't know. So I think we need to find this out for sure first, don't you think? Next, if it is not found, it was never evidence to begin with, so therefore not crucial. In my country, and in order to be considered evidence, it has to be admissible in a Court of Law.

It has already been reported, including here a couple of times someplace with a Link, that the Blonde Hair was tested for DNA but none was found. They could not even determine the true Hair Color. So that hair at this time would have been useless as far as DNA Evidence is concerned. I am sure they must have found many Cigarette Butts on the beach and tested them for DNA which did not match. Do you want to call that Crucial evidence? Or how about the 200 DNA tested they took off the people on the Island as well. Is this crucial evidence to? Should they keep all this stuff when it proves nothing? I don't know.

As to the blunders on the crime scene, they like to compare this to and FBI Investigation in a New York City, or Scotland Yard in London. But what people tend to forget here is that this double murder and rape took place on a small island, with a population of about 2,000 people, which I believed housed a total of 5 Police Men. It is remote and it takes time for professionals to get there.

How much training do you think those Police Men have on securing a crime scene on the Island, or if they did how long ago? How many Double Murders and Rapes do you think they handle in a year on that Island? The first highest ranking Police Man was on the stand and he said he only investigated 2 rape cases in his life, but no murderers where involved in them.

I am not trying to change anyone mind here, Personally I could care less. I am just trying to shed some light on this case for people who are open minded, and not people who bury their head in the sand when they see something they don't want to. If you do not agree, then fine. This not a Court Battle where I have to prove any thing to you, or you to me.

[fish fingers]

What were the last known/witnessed movements of each victim? I havent heard much info on testimony from the friends with them that night.

[stephenterry]

Here's another scenario. In all probability Hannah was not alone when she walked the beach. It would be reckless. David maybe,but it could have been the running woman spotted on cctv. A foursome with two guys? At the crime scene an argument leading to assault. The woman runs but Hannah doesn't. David is close by comes to the rescue,but is attacked. The rest follows.

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am. Their bodies were found at 6am.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763277/Was-British-backpacker-trying-help-woman-distress-New-evidence-suggests-David-Miller-coming-aid-Hannah-Witheridge-killed.html#ixzz3gQeG9ZzI

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Good. That is evidence (although I have not read that before on here, sorry). It really boils down to who attacked them and why. Both are imponderables. I would reason it is less likely to be a one-off coincidence/opportunity/desire, than a confrontation either then or because of an earlier spat.

There again, stranger things have happened.

What it does do is give credence to the RTP's case that this was a crime of opportunist lust. It would fit if David was lying down. On the other hand, it would also fit another person who was jealous, and he and his mates followed the couple from the bar.

Take your pick.

[thailandchilli]

What were the last known/witnessed movements of each victim? I havent heard much info on testimony from the friends with them that night.

Look at post #3141 above, friends saw them leave a club together between 3 and 4am

[catsanddogs]

What were the last known/witnessed movements of each victim? I havent heard much info on testimony from the friends with them that night.

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am. Their bodies were found at 6am.

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz3gQeG9ZzI

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[JLCrab]

Here's another scenario. In all probability Hannah was not alone when she walked the beach. It would be reckless. David maybe,but it could have been the running woman spotted on cctv. A foursome with two guys? At the crime scene an argument leading to assault. The woman runs but Hannah doesn't. David is close by comes to the rescue,but is attacked. The rest follows.

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am. Their bodies were found at 6am.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763277/Was-British-backpacker-trying-help-woman-distress-New-evidence-suggests-David-Miller-coming-aid-Hannah-Witheridge-killed.html#ixzz3gQeG9ZzI

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Good. That is evidence (although I have not read that before on here, sorry). It really boils down to who attacked them and why. Both are imponderables. I would reason it is less likely to be a one-off coincidence/opportunity/desire, than a confrontation either then or because of an earlier spat.

There again, stranger things have happened.

What it does do is give credence to the RTP's case that this was a crime of opportunist lust. It would fit if David was lying down. On the other hand, it would also fit another person who was jealous, and he and his mates followed the couple from the bar.

Take your pick.

But none of the late Ms. Witheridge's friends apparently have said that they saw her with any Thai guy that evening although Mr. Terry and others have offered reasons why she could have been but nobody would have noticed. But they did notice here as above with the late Mr. Miller.

[thailandchilli]

I am well aware of Mon's story about the blood cleanup in a spa by someone who apparently did not want to talk to police. I wonder which spa was open at about 4:00 am (the supposed time of the murder) and how Sean avoided being caught on any CCTV. I do not fully believe Sean's version of events either, but Mon's statement is a load of manure.

alot of interesting stuff on Sean here

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/tag/sean-mcanna/

Also has anyone got a photo of NS on koh Tao ? Not date specific just on Koh tao ?

I cast no accusations with my reply. My mind is still open, but you asked for a pic.

Must admit I've not yet seen many, but here is one of him in AC bar. This was pre Sept 2014, but I can't tell you precisely when. Is that one of the bouncers top left too?

https://crimesontheblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/10469417_272467849618496_8513290244234435491_n.jpg

Thanks for the photo,

So he looks like just any other thai kid having fun, what I can judge by the glasses he is wearing, is that he doesnt mind looking stupid or someone that doesn't take themselves to serious,

So to my next question does he look anymore guilty than the B2 does he look more capable of the crime ?

Does looks have anything to do with it? God if we start talking about how one looks then we're in for a couple of hundred pages of rubbish

Edited July 20, 2015 by thailandchilli

[englishoak]

Im more bothered that this story is not TV headline news as it should be and its shoved into a local forum..largely off the reading list of most to find if unaware.

Come on TV people read the headline news and it should be in your best interest to have visitors aware of incidents like this, they happen all too often...

Edited July 20, 2015 by englishoak

[Gweiloman]

I am well aware of Mon's story about the blood cleanup in a spa by someone who apparently did not want to talk to police. I wonder which spa was open at about 4:00 am (the supposed time of the murder) and how Sean avoided being caught on any CCTV. I do not fully believe Sean's version of events either, but Mon's statement is a load of manure.

alot of interesting stuff on Sean here

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/tag/sean-mcanna/

Also has anyone got a photo of NS on koh Tao ? Not date specific just on Koh tao ?

I cast no accusations with my reply. My mind is still open, but you asked for a pic.

Must admit I've not yet seen many, but here is one of him in AC bar. This was pre Sept 2014, but I can't tell you precisely when. Is that one of the bouncers top left too?

https://crimesontheblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/10469417_272467849618496_8513290244234435491_n.jpg

Thanks for the photo,

So he looks like just any other thai kid having fun, what I can judge by the glasses he is wearing, is that he doesnt mind looking stupid or someone that doesn't take themselves to serious,

So to my next question does he look anymore guilty than the B2 does he look more capable of the crime ?

Personally, I doubt very much that NS would take on David Miller or that he would use the hoe on Hannah. Having said that, we have established that there are others (workers, bodyguards etc) that does the bidding of their masters.

[stephenterry]

Here's another scenario. In all probability Hannah was not alone when she walked the beach. It would be reckless. David maybe,but it could have been the running woman spotted on cctv. A foursome with two guys? At the crime scene an argument leading to assault. The woman runs but Hannah doesn't. David is close by comes to the rescue,but is attacked. The rest follows.

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am. Their bodies were found at 6am.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763277/Was-British-backpacker-trying-help-woman-distress-New-evidence-suggests-David-Miller-coming-aid-Hannah-Witheridge-killed.html#ixzz3gQeG9ZzI

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Good. That is evidence (although I have not read that before on here, sorry). It really boils down to who attacked them and why. Both are imponderables. I would reason it is less likely to be a one-off coincidence/opportunity/desire, than a confrontation either then or because of an earlier spat.

There again, stranger things have happened.

What it does do is give credence to the RTP's case that this was a crime of opportunist lust. It would fit if David was lying down. On the other hand, it would also fit another person who was jealous, and he and his mates followed the couple from the bar.

Take your pick.

This timing is crucial evidence (if substantiated). Allowing a leeway from friends who presumably were wired or tired, let's suppose they left at 3.30 am. Not unreasonable? By the time they meandered to the beach, settled down to talk or otherwise, it could be 4 a.m or even later.

Who would be awake at that time?

Possibly those still at the club/bar, those who were hanging around outside, and maybe a few insomniacs, or even early starters like fishermen and menial cleaners. The B2 were left to their own devices at 1 am when their friend took a third bottle of beer to them. Would they still be on the beach three hours later at 4 a.m, knowing that they had to work the next day, no more beer, and nothing happening? Possibly, but unlikely.

A witness stated he found the B2 ASLEEP in their beds at 5 a.m. Given a run back to their abode, that leaves a maximum window of less than ONE hour to commit rape and murder.

Not impossible, but unlikely that any stable person would be able to sleep following that horrific crime. What can be discounted is that they were high on Ya Ba, which is a keep-awake drug.

Another example of reasonable doubt?

Edited July 20, 2015 by stephenterry

[Tony121]

I am well aware of Mon's story about the blood cleanup in a spa by someone who apparently did not want to talk to police. I wonder which spa was open at about 4:00 am (the supposed time of the murder) and how Sean avoided being caught on any CCTV. I do not fully believe Sean's version of events either, but Mon's statement is a load of manure.

alot of interesting stuff on Sean here

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/tag/sean-mcanna/

Also has anyone got a photo of NS on koh Tao ? Not date specific just on Koh tao ?

I cast no accusations with my reply. My mind is still open, but you asked for a pic.

Must admit I've not yet seen many, but here is one of him in AC bar. This was pre Sept 2014, but I can't tell you precisely when. Is that one of the bouncers top left too?

https://crimesontheblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/10469417_272467849618496_8513290244234435491_n.jpg

Thanks for the photo,

So he looks like just any other thai kid having fun, what I can judge by the glasses he is wearing, is that he doesnt mind looking stupid or someone that doesn't take themselves to serious,

So to my next question does he look anymore guilty than the B2 does he look more capable of the crime ?

Personally, I doubt very much that NS would take on David Miller or that he would use the hoe on Hannah. Having said that, we have established that there are others (workers, bodyguards etc) that does the bidding of their masters.

all there workers and bodyguards but they cant find anyone to help dispose of 2 Bodies ?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tinfoil+hat

[StealthEnergiser]

OCTOBER 9, 2014

https://democracyforburma.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/khunying-pornthip-koh-tao-forensic-work-needs-to-separate-with-police-authority/

Khunying Pornthip said : This case lack of reliability from people because there were no simulation and the police didn’t act right according to the forensic process. The forensic process needs 3 sections, 1st section is officers who responsible for questioning,and making report about the case, 2nd section is officers who collect witnesses and evidences,3rd section is the officers who examine witnesses and evidences. So this murder of 2 Britons on Koh Tao needed to have knowledge and used forensic experts only. Meanwhile the officers who came to check the crime scene needed to listen the information from the experts first and the experts would look for the cause of death, how they died because the crime scene might not be in only 1 place. Especially in this case didn’t manage the process instantly so might not had all the subjects matter. As same as the postmortem in this case, only gave DNA test report to the media but the fact need to have results of other examinations together whether blood,alcohol or drug in the dead bodies. And the investigation and probe of the police still used the same old way, that the officers who collected evidences and officers who proved the evidences are up on the enquiry officers only. And enquiry officers compiled all 3 sections together, this is completely a different thinking and method with the forensic. Maybe because the enquiry officer had seen that if they had enough witnesses and evidences then they could just write report and sent to attorney. But for me i think the law still needs to modify especially the case like this one that needs the forensic to lead the way or see to the part that was’t clear to make it clear before writing the report and send to the court.

So in this case, about the first section that i have to say is the enquiry officers needed to have knowledge, the weak point is maybe because they didn’t understand that this case needed to use forensic experts then they didn’t ask forensic experts from Surat Thani to come manage. Then the 2nd section is collected witnesses and evidences, in this case is a murder case that has 2 dead bodies, 100% that you must had forensic experts only.
Khunying Pornthip : The missing part of this case is the simulation, this is 1 of the steps of forensic method be cause they didn’t have this step that why it had became an issue in social media that put on a lot of observations in this case, be cause in this case only had re-enact. Besides i think, to collect to DNA, needed to do it the right way and follow the step, which will know the result in 24 hrs. In the murder cases and others, usually collect DNA from 2 parts both evidences and persons, furthermore to collect DNA samples from object evidences has to depend on damaged conditions with humidity,temperature, time, chemicals,radiation and disease. And about the evidences in this case that had found were DNA on the hoe, which is a weapon to kill the victims. If it was in sea then that couldn’t collect the DNA sample but if the hoe wasn’t in the sea then that possible to mistake collect the DNA sample. Besides the DNA test of Woraphan Tuwichian, the headman of Koh Tao couldn’t insist that his son ( the suspect ) is innocent only be cause it didn’t match with the evidences in the crime scene.
DNA at the hoe, if the hoe was in the water, the chance to appear is none but if you ask in the case that the hoe wasn’t in the water the examination that couldn’t find the result, what could cause that to happen is, it be cause the test wasn’t in the right position, to say it easy is, the examiners needed to see the dead bodies, if they had seen the bodies then they would know that it was a repeatedly beat more than 10 times, must had found the DNA 100% and if they had seen the wounds they would know the way of grip, like this or like this .., so if we can simulate this then we could collect in the right position. But if the collectors didn’t know this information the they might hadn’t collected it right then the DNA wasn’t appear that might cause a mistake.
However Khunying Pornthip thinks, in this case that the enquiry officer are lucky that they could collect the right witnesses and evidences and sent the dead bodies for postmortem in Bangkok which is has more experts, but if look overall, this case may urge the change of crime investigation process, be cause the old system that occurred didn’t build the reliability for the people that this’s up to standard and transparency or not. Which is important that all need to fix, especially the forensic work needs to separate with police authority. Meanwhile Khunying Pornthip said if she has a chance to work with this case she won’t let this case remain with any doubts for sure.
unoffical translation

[Tony121]

Here's another scenario. In all probability Hannah was not alone when she walked the beach. It would be reckless. David maybe,but it could have been the running woman spotted on cctv. A foursome with two guys? At the crime scene an argument leading to assault. The woman runs but Hannah doesn't. David is close by comes to the rescue,but is attacked. The rest follows.

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am. Their bodies were found at 6am.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763277/Was-British-backpacker-trying-help-woman-distress-New-evidence-suggests-David-Miller-coming-aid-Hannah-Witheridge-killed.html#ixzz3gQeG9ZzI

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Good. That is evidence (although I have not read that before on here, sorry). It really boils down to who attacked them and why. Both are imponderables. I would reason it is less likely to be a one-off coincidence/opportunity/desire, than a confrontation either then or because of an earlier spat.

There again, stranger things have happened.

What it does do is give credence to the RTP's case that this was a crime of opportunist lust. It would fit if David was lying down. On the other hand, it would also fit another person who was jealous, and he and his mates followed the couple from the bar.

Take your pick.

This timing is crucial evidence (if substantiated). Allowing a leeway from friends who presumably were wired or tired, let's suppose they left at 3.30 am. Not unreasonable? By the time they meandered to the beach, settled down to talk or otherwise, it could be 4 a.m or even later.

Who would be awake at that time?

Possibly those still at the club/bar, and maybe a few insomniacs, or even early starters like fishermen and menial cleaners. The B2 were left to their own devices at 1 am when their friend took a third bottle of beer to them. Would they still be on the beach three hours later at 4 a.m, knowing that they had to work the next day, no more beer, and nothing happening? Possibly, but unlikely.

A witness stated he found the B2 ASLEEP in their beds at 5 a.m. Given a run back to their abode, that leaves a maximum window of less than ONE hour to commit rape and murder.

Not impossible, but unlikely that any stable person would be able to sleep following that horrific crime. What can be discounted is that they were high on Ya Ba, which is a keep-awake drug.

Another example of reasonable doubt?

The crime happens at 4.am so you can discount Yaba which is a keep awake drug ? do you read the crap you write ?

A witness finding them in Bed at 5am who goes and checks on there friends at 5 in the morning ? if they were asleep how did the witness get in the room ?

[boomerangutang]

Interesting that some posters are coming forth with scenarios. I generally agree with the scenarios of those seeking truth & justice (as opposed to those who carry the buckets of hogwash for the RTP). There is a tweak I would add to a scenario mentioned, but overall it's good that people are thinking. One adjustment:

>>> I don't think Sean was directly at the crime scene at any time that night. At most, be may have approached the scene during or just after, and was dissuaded from getting close enough to see the victims - and was stabbed in the arm. Sean has been on & off buddies with key players in the crime (Mon, Nomsod, and their tough-guy buddies) possibly also involved with drug dealing with that crowd. That would explain why he knows things that the mafia-wannabe punks don't want him to tell - that's why they got the cops to give him a speedy exit from Thailand - never to be heard from again (they hope).

[Gweiloman]

Interesting that some posters are coming forth with scenarios. I generally agree with the scenarios of those seeking truth & justice (as opposed to those who carry the buckets of hogwash for the RTP). There is a tweak I would add to a scenario mentioned, but overall it's good that people are thinking. One adjustment:

>>> I don't think Sean was directly at the crime scene at any time that night. At most, be may have approached the scene during or just after, and was dissuaded from getting close enough to see the victims - and was stabbed in the arm. Sean has been on & off buddies with key players in the crime (Mon, Nomsod, and their tough-guy buddies) possibly also involved with drug dealing with that crowd. That would explain why he knows things that the mafia-wannabe punks don't want him to tell - that's why they got the cops to give him a speedy exit from Thailand - never to be heard from again (they hope).

Yes, this is what I said in an earlier post, that he might have been with David and both were stabbed with the same sort of push knife. Sean got frightened and ran off, David stayed, which could account for a few of Sean's posts later on.

[stephenterry]

Here's another scenario. In all probability Hannah was not alone when she walked the beach. It would be reckless. David maybe,but it could have been the running woman spotted on cctv. A foursome with two guys? At the crime scene an argument leading to assault. The woman runs but Hannah doesn't. David is close by comes to the rescue,but is attacked. The rest follows.

Friends told police that Hannah, from Great Yarmouth, and David, from Jersey, left the club together between 3am and 4am. Their bodies were found at 6am.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2763277/Was-British-backpacker-trying-help-woman-distress-New-evidence-suggests-David-Miller-coming-aid-Hannah-Witheridge-killed.html#ixzz3gQeG9ZzI

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Good. That is evidence (although I have not read that before on here, sorry). It really boils down to who attacked them and why. Both are imponderables. I would reason it is less likely to be a one-off coincidence/opportunity/desire, than a confrontation either then or because of an earlier spat.

There again, stranger things have happened.

What it does do is give credence to the RTP's case that this was a crime of opportunist lust. It would fit if David was lying down. On the other hand, it would also fit another person who was jealous, and he and his mates followed the couple from the bar.

Take your pick.

But none of the late Ms. Witheridge's friends apparently have said that they saw her with any Thai guy that evening although Mr. Terry and others have offered reasons why she could have been but nobody would have noticed. But they did notice here as above with the late Mr. Miller.

JLC - you really don't think it through, do you? First, maybe they were never asked (for obvious RTP protectionist reasons), or if they volunteered that info it was ignored (for the same reasons). And then what about the resentful Thai guy who was watching her all evening ( it's plausible) or was hanging around outside with his mates when the 'couple' walked by? Or maybe it was the B2 laying pissed in the gutter when David trod over them.

No doubt you'll have some smart-assed reply, which I'm dying to rip apart. Bring it on.

Seriously, though, incomplete information doesn't paint a full picture. We both know that.

[boomerangutang]

Maybe the Thai media just has a good gauge of the interests of their audience.

Right. Thai media would rather have a front page article about a woman marrying a cow, and the cow shown lying on her bed. Sells more papers.

[stephenterry]

This timing is crucial evidence (if substantiated). Allowing a leeway from friends who presumably were wired or tired, let's suppose they left at 3.30 am. Not unreasonable? By the time they meandered to the beach, settled down to talk or otherwise, it could be 4 a.m or even later.

Who would be awake at that time?

Possibly those still at the club/bar, and maybe a few insomniacs, or even early starters like fishermen and menial cleaners. The B2 were left to their own devices at 1 am when their friend took a third bottle of beer to them. Would they still be on the beach three hours later at 4 a.m, knowing that they had to work the next day, no more beer, and nothing happening? Possibly, but unlikely.

A witness stated he found the B2 ASLEEP in their beds at 5 a.m. Given a run back to their abode, that leaves a maximum window of less than ONE hour to commit rape and murder.

Not impossible, but unlikely that any stable person would be able to sleep following that horrific crime. What can be discounted is that they were high on Ya Ba, which is a keep-awake drug.

Another example of reasonable doubt?

tony responds: -

The crime happens at 4.am so you can discount Yaba which is a keep awake drug ? do you read the crap you write ?

A witness finding them in Bed at 5am who goes and checks on there friends at 5 in the morning ? if they were asleep how did the witness get in the room ?

It's factual, Tony. Read up on it. And that's being polite.

Edited July 20, 2015 by stephenterry

[missexpat]

David Miller's Missing Mobile Phone.

https://crimesontheb...rning-to-burma/

interesting wording from same article "“None of the witness testimonies included anything that could implicate [Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin] as the murderers. It’s starting to appear that it wasn’t them,” said Moe Wai"

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/2014/10/15/koh-tao-murders-third-man-released-returning-to-burm

Cool. I am glad you are happy with my Links.

Trying to be neutral here, in all fairness you do actually pull up some good articles at times, credit were credit is due.