Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[PaPiPuPePo]

Here's a quote from a post by JTJ:

"Meanwhile, Zaw Rin had taken Hannah some distance away. She resisted and screamed, so he hit her with the same hoe."

This can’t be true. Why? If you look at how Hannah was hit with the hoe, it was two precise strikes, one across her eyes, one across her mouth.

There is virtually no way that the hoe strikes would be that precise and even if she were resisting, perfectly horizontal and placed in those exact positions, and with no arc to the cuts. She could only have been struck that way if her head were immobile or immobilzed and the person striking her aimed at those areas.

If one of these guys, or anyone, struck her while they were struggling the strikes would have been an some angle (extreme “luck” aside) and there would have been an arc to the strike, especially if they were both standing, or if he (I’m assuming it was a he who hit her with the hoe) was kneeling or above her and she was lying down.

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

So much for respect from some of the koh tao residents

[smedly]

Right. You believe the cops, I don't.

You believe the story they put forth and I do not.

I thought that had been established about 130 pages ago. Thai press said the only tape they saw from the lawyer (lol one tape) could have been photoshopped and some of the furniture wasn't in their correct place, So some doubt, yeah?

Don't hate me because we believe different pieces on uncontested (so far) evidence.

"Right. You believe the cops, I don't."

Tell me, why do you believe Nomsod was involved? That is to say, what put that notion in your head?

Might be because he was the very first suspect claimed by the cop that was removed from the investigation who claimed he had evidence that connected him to the murders along with his forensic scientist investigator Uncle Mon who was even quoted at the time as claiming it was him in the "running man video", then suddenly we had all sorts of cctv video and dna tests and evidence trying to place him somewhere else and dna that didn't match - Dna that didn't match what exactly !!!!!! and worth noting that the police court witness in charge of the investigation has no record of such tests and stated that while being cross examined, yet the police suddenly ruled him out of the investigation and transferred the cop that did - why ?

AleG - The DNA tests were done in four different hospitals. what on earth does that actually mean considering the police knew nothing about it, oh wait, maybe it was crime scene investigator and forensic scientist uncle mon that did the tests himself to make sure it was all above board .....right ?

you know what guys this thread is going round and round in circles and is adding absolutely nothing of importance, just a lot of bickering trolling and nonsense repetitive posts -

How about gibing it a rest until the trial resumes

So you think he is involved because a cop said so... guess what? the same cop said he wasn't involved when an alibi was proven.

You choose to believe one thing and not the other, even though the one you don't want to believe in has been corroborated by third parties.

yes the same cop soon after declared he wasn't involved, I wonder who had a word in his ear, I have a fair idea.

corroborated by what 3rd parties, show me the verifiable evidence that stands up to scrutiny and I will believe

I've seen the cctv video and will keep my conclusions to myself, but as I have already stated there is a likeness for a certain person

and while we are at it, you earlier quoted various testimony from Maung Maung indicating (since you posted it) that you believed it, Maung Maung also stated that he spoke to Nomsod in AC bar earlier that night, what is true I have no idea but it seems pointless to keep posting all this non-substantiated dribble

I am going to pay less attention to your ramblings and also those of JTJ and Balo, in my opinion you all have questionable motives for your prolific repetitive posts on this thread, in my opinion it is very much in trolling territory as you all keep repeating the same things over and over and bating people

[Fat Haggis]

3 sets of DNA, 2 suspects on trial, why is the Investigation concluded without the 3rd person also on trial? So a 3rd person who hasn't been identified, or found, could very well be the actual killer..

[GOLDBUGGY]

Just a quick search on the internet resulted in numerous ways the police allegedly tortured these two. Are there more claims?

interrogators said they would kill them

The interrogators told them to confess to the crime, and threatened to cut off their limbs, put them in a bag, and dump them in a river if they did not.

The police also threatened to tie the two boys to a tyre, pour petrol on it, and set it alight.

he was beaten and threatened with electrocution after refusing to confess

they had been scalded with boiling water during a police interrogation

they were forced to confess to the crimes after police punched and slapped them during interrogations.

They covered our heads with black plastic bags and threatened to stab us with a nail-like object

withdrawn their confessions claiming police beat it out of them.

As a side note, the health of the suspects was checked by at least three doctors from different organisations, including the Rights and Liberties Protection Department, who did not detect signs of physical assault.

"We prosecutors pay more attention to witness statements and evidence (not confessions)," said Thawatchai Siangjaew, director-general of the Office of Public Prosecution Region 8.

"More importantly, forensic evidence and statements given by medical doctors are treated as the most important elements when we decide whether or not to indictsuspects."

I think Water Torture, Electric Shock Torture, and Stripping them Naked and taking pictures of them to post on the Internet were some more they came up with. Not sure if anything is left besides Medieval Torture ones?

[Nigeone]

3 sets of DNA, 2 suspects on trial, why is the Investigation concluded without the 3rd person also on trial? So a 3rd person who hasn't been identified, or found, could very well be the actual killer..

I think but stand corrected that I saw this mentioned a while ago and somebody clarified it by saying

there was 3 DNA results from items area etc but two were the same person. As I said I could be wrong

Edited July 27, 2015 by Nigeone

[JungleBiker]

http://morning-news.bectero.com/m/main.php?m=newsdetail&cname=regional&nid=25070

Note the baggy shorts. Last September it was suggested elsewhere that those may be David's shorts.

I think the rules don't allow me to post a link, so you can Google the headline "KOH TAO MURDERS - DID KILLER STEAL VICTIMS PANTS".

(Sorry grammar police, it's the professional journalist, not me, who wrote "victims" rather than "victim's").

By the way, perhaps the news released after the British cops visited Thailand, suggesting that the victims' families had confidence in the BIB, was deliberately intended to lull the BIB into thinking they were doing a good job of fooling everyone. If the Brits had revealed at that time any evidence that could weaken the prosecution's case, then the BIB would have had lots of time to prepare themselves and fabricate "counter-evidence". By releasing the evidence later on during the trial, the defence will, I hope, catch the BIB with their pants down (again). If I remember correctly, that news did not come directly from the families but from a UK government press release.

[Fat Haggis]

Here is another questionnaire. What is the most correct answer?

1. Only the B2 and the perps know who killed the victims.

2. Only the B2 know who killed the victims.

3. Only the perps know who killed the victims.

Now look in the mirror and repeat the answer. Does that help clarify where we're at, now?

The answer is that nobody knows except the one who did it. .

Whoever did it , I am pretty sure must have been under the influence of drugs . Whoever did it must have been at AC bar or close to it that night.

the one? so you speculate that it had to be one person responsible? that eliminates the B2 then does it not?

Under the influence of drugs too? more speculation, toxicology of the accused should be able to tell if they even smoked weed in recent weeks.

They had to be in the AC bar or close to it that night? Why would they? more speculation.

you're as bad as the others you like to criticise.

[balo]

Here is another questionnaire. What is the most correct answer?

1. Only the B2 and the perps know who killed the victims.

2. Only the B2 know who killed the victims.

3. Only the perps know who killed the victims.

Now look in the mirror and repeat the answer. Does that help clarify where we're at, now?

The answer is that nobody knows except the one who did it. .

Whoever did it , I am pretty sure must have been under the influence of drugs . Whoever did it must have been at AC bar or close to it that night.

the one? so you speculate that it had to be one person responsible? that eliminates the B2 then does it not?

Under the influence of drugs too? more speculation, toxicology of the accused should be able to tell if they even smoked weed in recent weeks.

They had to be in the AC bar or close to it that night? Why would they? more speculation.

you're as bad as the others you like to criticise.

Sorry english is not my first language, the ones who did it, is that better ?

Also I am allowed to speculate, thats what we do here, right ?

AC bar is very close to the murder scene, so a lot of people believe thekiller must have been in the bar at some point or nearby, outside the bar.

Drugs is very common on the island, so yes call it speculation , but I do not believe they were murdered by someone "clean".

Edited July 27, 2015 by balo

[smedly]

Just a quick search on the internet resulted in numerous ways the police allegedly tortured these two. Are there more claims?

interrogators said they would kill them

The interrogators told them to confess to the crime, and threatened to cut off their limbs, put them in a bag, and dump them in a river if they did not.

The police also threatened to tie the two boys to a tyre, pour petrol on it, and set it alight.

he was beaten and threatened with electrocution after refusing to confess

they had been scalded with boiling water during a police interrogation

they were forced to confess to the crimes after police punched and slapped them during interrogations.

They covered our heads with black plastic bags and threatened to stab us with a nail-like object

withdrawn their confessions claiming police beat it out of them.

As a side note, the health of the suspects was checked by at least three doctors from different organisations, including the Rights and Liberties Protection Department, who did not detect signs of physical assault.

"We prosecutors pay more attention to witness statements and evidence (not confessions)," said Thawatchai Siangjaew, director-general of the Office of Public Prosecution Region 8.

"More importantly, forensic evidence and statements given by medical doctors are treated as the most important elements when we decide whether or not to indictsuspects."

I think Water Torture, Electric Shock Torture, and Stripping them Naked and taking pictures of them to post on the Internet were some more they came up with. Not sure if anything is left besides Medieval Torture ones?

how about - if you don't say and do exactly what we tell you we cannot protect you while in jail, do you understand, now sign here. oh and we need a sperm sample from you by tomorrow morning

eventually they get legal representation who convince them to tell the truth, oh and in the west they would have had legal council with them at all interviews as a legal right.

[Nigeone]

http://morning-news.bectero.com/m/main.php?m=newsdetail&cname=regional&nid=25070

Note the baggy shorts. Last September it was suggested elsewhere that those may be David's shorts.

I think the rules don't allow me to post a link, so you can Google the headline "KOH TAO MURDERS - DID KILLER STEAL VICTIMS PANTS".

(Sorry grammar police, it's the professional journalist, not me, who wrote "victims" rather than "victim's").

By the way, perhaps the news released after the British cops visited Thailand, suggesting that the victims' families had confidence in the BIB, was deliberately intended to lull the BIB into thinking they were doing a good job of fooling everyone. If the Brits had revealed at that time any evidence that could weaken the prosecution's case, then the BIB would have had lots of time to prepare themselves and fabricate "counter-evidence". By releasing the evidence later on during the trial, the defence will, I hope, catch the BIB with their pants down (again). If I remember correctly, that news did not come directly from the families but from a UK government press release.

Yes I'm not sure about the British cops involvement and how much they observed. I can't believe for one minute that these guys weren't some of the cream and noticed a lot and took in so much more than the RTP realised. The political side of this will have kicked in but why would the Brits have to show there cards yet as the RTP are doing okay on there own without the British having to put a spanner in the works. If they don't have to I'm sure they won't as its not good in so many ways if a country is poking it's nose into another countries legal system. They wouldn't have come out there either and leave themselves wide open at a later date of incompetence . They will be watching and probably from time to time reading even in here to gauge the mood and read between the lines. While some critics will pour scorn on this forum it does give people a chance to air there opinions and get frustrations of there chest and it always should be remembered that not everybody has a equal iq. If you post and read in here there is a lot of very very good points and angles suggested and some of course far fetched but the intelligent persons can read between the lines. I think, in fact sure the Brits are keeping there cards close to there chest and hoping they don't have to deal but I'm sure they have a good hand. You also have to remember there is a court case going on and they will be aware not to compromise any evidence or witness.

[mmh8]

what we do know about this whole business is that the generals and police are not totally stupid. conspiracy theories abound, I am guessing they have chosen this case to talk about the issue and bring it to light while pushing other things through, know one has mentioned the navy's recent purchase of the 500 metre yacht with 10 m high sails purchased by the navy for its fleet of stealth ships.

[loonodingle]

You are wrong. Andy wouldn't reveal anything other than to say that significant discrepancies have been found in relation to information gleaned from the UK.

We all have to wait. However it was mentioned in a recent piece in the Times a highly respected newspaper that they had seen information that pointed to shrapnel wounds.

The defence will not publish anything prior to its disclosure in court.

We all make presumptions you included. Just sit tight and wait and see what's coming .

Unfortunately "gleaned" does mean substantiated...

Basil, Hows your Englit 2day any good.

"

Unfortunately "gleaned" does mean substantiated..."

Correct it does mean substantiated I agree.

Hard fought for information I am sure so the definition is correct according to dictionary

glean

ɡliːn/

verb

past tense: gleaned; past participle: gleaned

1. 1.

   obtain (information) from various sources, often with difficulty.

[jdinasia]

At the end of the day its the defence teams job to make sure there clients are found not guilty, it's not there job to solve the case.

I am sure they have in their possession numerous "revelations" which would shock and devastate many large ego's. I don't think Scotland Yard came to Thailand to sit on there <deleted> in Thailand. The Police the Brits sent were the cream of the crop, and I am sure the British Embassy did lots of "work" before the UK Police arrived on Thai shores.

I am sure the Brits and the Defence know who was involved and by forensics , probably know the names of the perpetrators.

The RTP are daft, but not stupid, a deal will be done at the right time d\for everyone involved.

If you think the Brit authorities know who did the crime, then why did they lie to the victims' families?

I think Brit officials were unaware of the depth of corruption in Thailand, and opted to go along with their RTP silver-tongued minder. I'll be glad to be proved wrong. But until the Brits step up to the plate and do what's right, they will continue to look like easily duped dummies.

I don't think the Brits lied to the families. I think the Brits told the families to say they were happy with what was going on so as not to give them (the RTP) any chance to find out what they know.

No time to make up another story.

So...

Another conspiracy theory?

[loonodingle]

http://morning-news.bectero.com/m/main.php?m=newsdetail&cname=regional&nid=25070

Note the baggy shorts. Last September it was suggested elsewhere that those may be David's shorts.

I think the rules don't allow me to post a link, so you can Google the headline "KOH TAO MURDERS - DID KILLER STEAL VICTIMS PANTS".

(Sorry grammar police, it's the professional journalist, not me, who wrote "victims" rather than "victim's").

By the way, perhaps the news released after the British cops visited Thailand, suggesting that the victims' families had confidence in the BIB, was deliberately intended to lull the BIB into thinking they were doing a good job of fooling everyone. If the Brits had revealed at that time any evidence that could weaken the prosecution's case, then the BIB would have had lots of time to prepare themselves and fabricate "counter-evidence". By releasing the evidence later on during the trial, the defence will, I hope, catch the BIB with their pants down (again). If I remember correctly, that news did not come directly from the families but from a UK government press release.

Yes I'm not sure about the British cops involvement and how much they observed. I can't believe for one minute that these guys weren't some of the cream and noticed a lot and took in so much more than the RTP realised. The political side of this will have kicked in but why would the Brits have to show there cards yet as the RTP are doing okay on there own without the British having to put a spanner in the works. If they don't have to I'm sure they won't as its not good in so many ways if a country is poking it's nose into another countries legal system. They wouldn't have come out there either and leave themselves wide open at a later date of incompetence . They will be watching and probably from time to time reading even in here to gauge the mood and read between the lines. While some critics will pour scorn on this forum it does give people a chance to air there opinions and get frustrations of there chest and it always should be remembered that not everybody has a equal iq. If you post and read in here there is a lot of very very good points and angles suggested and some of course far fetched but the intelligent persons can read between the lines. I think, in fact sure the Brits are keeping there cards close to there chest and hoping they don't have to deal but I'm sure they have a good hand. You also have to remember there is a court case going on and they will be aware not to compromise any evidence or witness.

The 3 officers where a Homicide officer from Norfolk Police. A Homicide from the Met police and a forensic officer. One went to Koh Tao a few days earlier on the quiet and the other 2 followed in a helicopter courtesy of the RTP. the 3 officers left together.

[Fat Haggis]

Here is another questionnaire. What is the most correct answer?

1. Only the B2 and the perps know who killed the victims.

2. Only the B2 know who killed the victims.

3. Only the perps know who killed the victims.

Now look in the mirror and repeat the answer. Does that help clarify where we're at, now?

The answer is that nobody knows except the one who did it. .

Whoever did it , I am pretty sure must have been under the influence of drugs . Whoever did it must have been at AC bar or close to it that night.

the one? so you speculate that it had to be one person responsible? that eliminates the B2 then does it not?

Under the influence of drugs too? more speculation, toxicology of the accused should be able to tell if they even smoked weed in recent weeks.

They had to be in the AC bar or close to it that night? Why would they? more speculation.

you're as bad as the others you like to criticise.

Sorry english is not my first language, the ones who did it, is that better ?

Also I am allowed to speculate, thats what we do here, right ?

AC bar is very close to the murder scene, so a lot of people believe thekiller must have been in the bar at some point or nearby, outside the bar.

Drugs is very common on the island, so yes call it speculation , but I do not believe they were murdered by someone "clean".

There's a lot of former coppers posting here from various countries, and I'm willing to bet that they too "theorise and speculate" when investigating crime scenes, and then start to collate evidence to substantiate their theories, or dismiss them.

The RTP also did this on many occasions, no two doubts about that.

To the former cops, on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the best, how do you rate the RTP in the following areas, and why you rated them as such.

1. Crime scene cordon ?

2. Crime scene protection of evidence ?

3. Ability of the SOCO's to perform evidence protection/gathering and collating?

4. Media control and exposure of the day the crime was discovered.

5. Senior Command and control of the Investigation team. ( leaking of crime scene photos to a personal FB page)

6. Media control, of the theories offered by senior RTP officer? eg Killed in a Gay love triangle," No Thai could do this"

7. The investigation of the "family" involvement

8. The Investigation and arrest of the B2, where no Chain of custody records found.

9. The Interviews (not recorded) with a roti seller, and not an official from the Myanmar embassy?

10. The constant updates about percentage of completion.

11. The whole DNA fiasco.

and as former officers of the law, would you also have conducted the investigation in the same shonky manner in which the RTP seems to have done?

[DennisF]

I see that the now troll with zero credibility due to his lies (JTJ) is back again with even more imagined truths.

AT NO POINT did the two accused ( who may well be guilty) say that they had been scalded with boiling water.

This as a claim made ( and proof shown in photos) by 2 of the football team that were playing in death island.

If I am wrong, give me the official link, remembering that I have been following this case from day 1 and have a very good memory, as well as links.

Perhaps we can expand my questioning further to those that think it has been a perfect case:

1. Headman states that his son went back to Bangkok as he had exams to do. Apart from the classmates who say he did not turn up for them WHY would his father then retract those statements and say his son had not been on the islnd for 2 weeks ( 1 month in another interview that may have been misinterpreted)

2. Why would his 'inseparable' gf post on her facebook page that she had not seen him for 3 days and could not contact him?

3. Why would his female relative say he was with her in Bangkok when it was proven she was in Pattaya?.

4. Why did he go 'missing' for a week almost?

5. Why would the policeman in charge of the case ( before being abruptly transferred ( WITH NO PREVIOUS NOTICE that can be proved) state quite firmly that he had EVIDENCE that IMPLICATED both the headmans brother and the headmans son?

6. Why would a chat with them clear that ( as he described) incriminating evidence) their involvement?

I have more but I think thats enough for now except to quote JTJ's post which said ' dont feed the trolls'. For those not familiar with trollesque I will interpret: 'Oh, sheet, I've been rumbled, I'll exit with an insult.'

[GOLDBUGGY]

According to the translator, Maung said he was not present when the murders took place

took place. He had left his friends at 1am to meet his girlfriend so he did not know about anything that took place afterwards.

He said Zaw Rin and Win admitted that they had indeed committed the murders and that they confirmed that Maung had left earlier. They said they were drunk and that they bludgeoned the heads of the tourists. The first weapon was a large bottle of wine which was used by Win on David Miller. Then Win used a hoe was used to finish the job.

Meanwhile, Zaw Rin had taken Hannah some distance away. She resisted and screamed, so he hit her with the same hoe. Win was the first to rape her, the translator said. He said the two did not leave the island immediately because it was difficult to do so with the police keeping a close watch.

Police yesterday confirmed the mobile phone of Koh Tao murder victim, David Miller, had been retrieved from the accommodation of one of the two Myanmar suspects.

National police chief Somyot Pumpanmuang said suspect Saw Rim, 21, had intended to take the victims mobile phone for his own use, but he later found the device cannot be used in Thailand, so he smashed and discarded it in his living quarters.

Pol Col Prachum Ruangthong, superintendent of the Koh Phangan police station, said the device is a black iPhone 4, taken from the shorts pocket of Miller, 24, who was found dead on a Koh Tao beach alongside Hannah Witheridge, 23, on Sept 15.

The confirmation came as doubts spread on social media as to whether the phone was really taken from the suspects. Some pictures circulated online show a friend of Witheridge brought a mobile phone to Pol Col Prachum during the inquest.

The men underwent medical checks before and after the inquiry to prove they were not tortured into admitting a crime.

They seemed in good health, except for pain in their chests [allegedly from their interrogation], added Aung Myo Thant.

"Two Myanmar suspects have confessed to killing the pair," national police chief Somyot Pumpunmuang told the AFP news service even before the press conference. "DNA test results confirmed that the same DNA was found in the body of the (female)victim."

With her partner incapacitated, both men then set upon Witheridge, taking turns as raping her while alternately smoking a cigarette. When they were through, Wynsmashed her head

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller by bludgeoning them to death with a hoe on 15 September.

A second witness, Dr. Chasit Yoohad, gave testimony about his examination of the victims' bodies. He said he also performed a medical checkup of the two accused, and found them in good health. He said he asked through a translator if they had committed the crime, and they replied that they had.

BANGKOK: -- A human rights commissioner said Tuesday the two Myanmar migrant workers arrested on charges of murdering the two British backpackers on Koh Tao admitted to him that they committed the crime as charged.

The commissioner, Mr Prinya Sirisarakan, and his staff visited the two suspects at a prison on Koh Samui where they are being detained pending prosecution.

Commenting on the suspicion by netizens in the social media that the two suspects might be just scapegoats, Mr Prinya suggested that the police should disclose more details about the case to clear up the air.

He said the two told him that they drank both beer and wine before they attacked the two British tourists and he suspected that they might be drunk at the time they committed the crime.

So you think B2 could restrain Hannah and beat David with a wine bottle at the same time? I'm around the same size as David, if a man the size of Win came at me with nothing but a broken bottle he would be in for a beating. So, both B2 beat David? Who was restraining Hannah?

So much B.S it's not even funny.

Those confessions are under alleged abuse and you know that. Why would they fight the case when their best chance in the world is confessing and receiving life in prison or anything less than a death sentence?

So many things do not add up, John.

I believe you will find they hit unarmed David from behind initially and assume he did't have eyes in the back of his head let alone suspect an attack was coming.

Well police may have threatened or coerced a confession from them ... their lawyers and embassy officials didn't and the two told them they did it outside police presence while showing no fear in telling them they were also abused by police.

"Now boys, if you tell anybody we threatened and coerced you we will kill not only you, by hanging in your cell. After that's done we will find your family and do the same"

That's all it takes here, John. They're also in the custody of RTP so vulnerable to being killed in their cells... Once there was enough attention and the B2 couldn't be murdered in jail, they could be more open with everyone. Do you know cops here do dirty stuff all the time? Trying to ejaculate a man to frame him for a crime, the Kristy Jones case?

There is damn good reason not to trust the authorities on this.. By their own hand they've shown they're corrupt and incompetent.

Personally, and if I really believed they would do this to me, which I don't, I would be more afraid after I confessed then before I did. This is because nothing is stopping them from doing this after I sign the Confession. Media Headline the next day: "Two Accused Hung themselves in prison over the feelings of guilt remorse, and shame they caused their families, for the terrible crimes they committed and "Confessed" to. End of story! But then this is neither here nor their.

If all they have was this Confession then I might begin to understand your point, but they don't. Throw in no Alibi, being seen near the crime scene close to the time when the crimes took place, leading Police to David's Mobile Phone, and different sources of DNA Matches, and possible witnesses that we don't know what they will say, all adds up. Which I would expect will be contested in court by the Defense.

In my country concerning Capital Crimes, a Confession to the Police means nothing! Probably doesn't much here either, when a high percentage of the accused recant their confession. The 2 accused was asked by a Judge if they did this and who do they think that did. They said the didn't and they don't know.

In my country, the only time a Confession has any meaning is when asked by the Judge if they plead "Guilty" or "Not Guilty". If the plea is "Not Guilty", then the Judge will not accept a confession as evidence.That is not to say that anything they say until they get to court can't be used as evidence. That is why the Police say "anything you say can and will be held against" during the arrest. But the Confession itself means nothing, if they plead not guilty in court. . .

[loonodingle]

Just a quick search on the internet resulted in numerous ways the police allegedly tortured these two. Are there more claims?

interrogators said they would kill them

The interrogators told them to confess to the crime, and threatened to cut off their limbs, put them in a bag, and dump them in a river if they did not.

The police also threatened to tie the two boys to a tyre, pour petrol on it, and set it alight.

he was beaten and threatened with electrocution after refusing to confess

they had been scalded with boiling water during a police interrogation

they were forced to confess to the crimes after police punched and slapped them during interrogations.

They covered our heads with black plastic bags and threatened to stab us with a nail-like object

withdrawn their confessions claiming police beat it out of them.

As a side note, the health of the suspects was checked by at least three doctors from different organisations, including the Rights and Liberties Protection Department, who did not detect signs of physical assault.

"We prosecutors pay more attention to witness statements and evidence (not confessions)," said Thawatchai Siangjaew, director-general of the Office of Public Prosecution Region 8.

"More importantly, forensic evidence and statements given by medical doctors are treated as the most important elements when we decide whether or not to indictsuspects."

I think Water Torture, Electric Shock Torture, and Stripping them Naked and taking pictures of them to post on the Internet were some more they came up with. Not sure if anything is left besides Medieval Torture ones?

Glad to see you to fools get some pleasure out of this event. Karma has a funny way off catching up with people so consider that.

[DennisF]

Just a quick search on the internet resulted in numerous ways the police allegedly tortured these two. Are there more claims?

interrogators said they would kill them

The interrogators told them to confess to the crime, and threatened to cut off their limbs, put them in a bag, and dump them in a river if they did not.

The police also threatened to tie the two boys to a tyre, pour petrol on it, and set it alight.

he was beaten and threatened with electrocution after refusing to confess

they had been scalded with boiling water during a police interrogation

they were forced to confess to the crimes after police punched and slapped them during interrogations.

They covered our heads with black plastic bags and threatened to stab us with a nail-like object

withdrawn their confessions claiming police beat it out of them.

As a side note, the health of the suspects was checked by at least three doctors from different organisations, including the Rights and Liberties Protection Department, who did not detect signs of physical assault.

"We prosecutors pay more attention to witness statements and evidence (not confessions)," said Thawatchai Siangjaew, director-general of the Office of Public Prosecution Region 8.

"More importantly, forensic evidence and statements given by medical doctors are treated as the most important elements when we decide whether or not to indictsuspects."

I think Water Torture, Electric Shock Torture, and Stripping them Naked and taking pictures of them to post on the Internet were some more they came up with. Not sure if anything is left besides Medieval Torture ones?

Glad to see you to fools get some pleasure out of this event. Karma has a funny way off catching up with people so consider that.

I agree, its interesting to observe the intellectually barren gaining pleasure from other peoples misfortune and imagining even greater ills befaling them.

Maybe its a rare sexual kink? I dont know.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I see that the now troll with zero credibility due to his lies (JTJ) is back again with even more imagined truths.

AT NO POINT did the two accused ( who may well be guilty) say that they had been scalded with boiling water.

This as a claim made ( and proof shown in photos) by 2 of the football team that were playing in death island.

If I am wrong, give me the official link, remembering that I have been following this case from day 1 and have a very good memory, as well as links.

Perhaps we can expand my questioning further to those that think it has been a perfect case:

1. Headman states that his son went back to Bangkok as he had exams to do. Apart from the classmates who say he did not turn up for them WHY would his father then retract those statements and say his son had not been on the islnd for 2 weeks ( 1 month in another interview that may have been misinterpreted)

2. Why would his 'inseparable' gf post on her facebook page that she had not seen him for 3 days and could not contact him?

3. Why would his female relative say he was with her in Bangkok when it was proven she was in Pattaya?.

4. Why did he go 'missing' for a week almost?

5. Why would the policeman in charge of the case ( before being abruptly transferred ( WITH NO PREVIOUS NOTICE that can be proved) state quite firmly that he had EVIDENCE that IMPLICATED both the headmans brother and the headmans son?

6. Why would a chat with them clear that ( as he described) incriminating evidence) their involvement?

I have more but I think thats enough for now except to quote JTJ's post which said ' dont feed the trolls'. For those not familiar with trollesque I will interpret: 'Oh, sheet, I've been rumbled, I'll exit with an insult.'

New Poster.

All this stuff you are making reference to has been dealt with or posted here several times already. To the point people are complaining of seeing this over and over and over again. Starting with the fact that many of us here don't take what is written on Facebook, or other Gossip Columns as the Gospel Truth.

I only have one question for you.

Why don't you read up what has been posted here first instead of what you read in the Gossip Columns, and then ask a question? Asking someone to the answer to 6 question which have not been proved by Credible Link, because you did not provide one, is pretty ridiculous don't you think? .

[loonodingle]

At the end of the day its the defence teams job to make sure there clients are found not guilty, it's not there job to solve the case.

I am sure they have in their possession numerous "revelations" which would shock and devastate many large ego's. I don't think Scotland Yard came to Thailand to sit on there <deleted> in Thailand. The Police the Brits sent were the cream of the crop, and I am sure the British Embassy did lots of "work" before the UK Police arrived on Thai shores.

I am sure the Brits and the Defence know who was involved and by forensics , probably know the names of the perpetrators.

The RTP are daft, but not stupid, a deal will be done at the right time d\for everyone involved.

If you think the Brit authorities know who did the crime, then why did they lie to the victims' families?

I think Brit officials were unaware of the depth of corruption in Thailand, and opted to go along with their RTP silver-tongued minder. I'll be glad to be proved wrong. But until the Brits step up to the plate and do what's right, they will continue to look like easily duped dummies.

I don't think the Brits lied to the families. I think the Brits told the families to say they were happy with what was going on so as not to give them (the RTP) any chance to find out what they know.

No time to make up another story.

So...

Another conspiracy theory?

Will you ever bring anything of substance to this thread? A plethora of bitching spews from your keyboard on far to regular occasion.

Here the sum total of the Famous Fives deductions.

1. The Royal Thai Police never torture (or condone torture by a 3rd party in a safe house) their suspects.
2. The RTP conduct proficient crime scene management.
3. The RTP are proficient in DNA analysis and there facility meet international standards. (in fact they are so good they can give you a result before the sample arrives in BKK)
4. The RTP learnt from the same text books as the Met Police.
5. Anyone other than a Thai must be responsible for any tourist murders
6. If you wear a Bikini and look sexy, well you bring it on yourselves.
7. The RTP have never used the Burmese as scapegoats... never ever ever
8. We should always believe the Authority's without question.
9. The family's have decided the verdict already as they made a statement to the fact.
10. The trial should have been a single days event to save time as the outcome is already decided.
11. The RTP never remove an officer and replace him with one that tows the line.
12. Only 2 young men committed the crime.
13. If you buy Land M fags then you are guilty
14. If you are on a beach when a crime is committed you must be guilty

I am sure there's many more but that gives us all a gist of there thoughts.

Any further donations are welcome

[loonodingle]

I see that the now troll with zero credibility due to his lies (JTJ) is back again with even more imagined truths.

AT NO POINT did the two accused ( who may well be guilty) say that they had been scalded with boiling water.

This as a claim made ( and proof shown in photos) by 2 of the football team that were playing in death island.

If I am wrong, give me the official link, remembering that I have been following this case from day 1 and have a very good memory, as well as links.

Perhaps we can expand my questioning further to those that think it has been a perfect case:

1. Headman states that his son went back to Bangkok as he had exams to do. Apart from the classmates who say he did not turn up for them WHY would his father then retract those statements and say his son had not been on the islnd for 2 weeks ( 1 month in another interview that may have been misinterpreted)

2. Why would his 'inseparable' gf post on her facebook page that she had not seen him for 3 days and could not contact him?

3. Why would his female relative say he was with her in Bangkok when it was proven she was in Pattaya?.

4. Why did he go 'missing' for a week almost?

5. Why would the policeman in charge of the case ( before being abruptly transferred ( WITH NO PREVIOUS NOTICE that can be proved) state quite firmly that he had EVIDENCE that IMPLICATED both the headmans brother and the headmans son?

6. Why would a chat with them clear that ( as he described) incriminating evidence) their involvement?

I have more but I think thats enough for now except to quote JTJ's post which said ' dont feed the trolls'. For those not familiar with trollesque I will interpret: 'Oh, sheet, I've been rumbled, I'll exit with an insult.'

New Poster.

All this stuff you are making reference to has been dealt with or posted here several times already. To the point people are complaining of seeing this over and over and over again. Starting with the fact that many of us here don't take what is written on Facebook, or other Gossip Columns as the Gospel Truth.

I only have one question for you.

Why don't you read up what has been posted here first instead of what you read in the Gossip Columns, and then ask a question? Asking someone to the answer to 6 question which have not been proved by Credible Link, because you did not provide one, is pretty ridiculous don't you think? .

Hardly think you are the right person to be settings standards here GB. You make it up as you go along and if it doesn't fit you just ignore it.

[loonodingle]

Does anyone know why they couldn't use the police station to conduct the interviews and reverted to a "Safe House" and what is a Safe House. Safe from Screams being heard?

Perhaps it was having major construction carried out at the time??

Just wondering as we had Ali'G JD GB and JTJ around at the moment and between them I am sure we can get a definitive answer

Edited July 27, 2015 by loonodingle

[AleG]

So you think he is involved because a cop said so... guess what? the same cop said he wasn't involved when an alibi was proven.

You choose to believe one thing and not the other, even though the one you don't want to believe in has been corroborated by third parties.

yes the same cop soon after declared he wasn't involved, I wonder who had a word in his ear, I have a fair idea.

corroborated by what 3rd parties, show me the verifiable evidence that stands up to scrutiny and I will believe

I've seen the cctv video and will keep my conclusions to myself, but as I have already stated there is a likeness for a certain person

and while we are at it, you earlier quoted various testimony from Maung Maung indicating (since you posted it) that you believed it, Maung Maung also stated that he spoke to Nomsod in AC bar earlier that night, what is true I have no idea but it seems pointless to keep posting all this non-substantiated dribble

I am going to pay less attention to your ramblings and also those of JTJ and Balo, in my opinion you all have questionable motives for your prolific repetitive posts on this thread, in my opinion it is very much in trolling territory as you all keep repeating the same things over and over and bating people

"yes the same cop soon after declared he wasn't involved, I wonder who had a word in his ear, I have a fair idea. "

I'm sure you have an idea, I very much doubt it's a fair one.

"corroborated by what 3rd parties, show me the verifiable evidence that stands up to scrutiny and I will believe"

For example by journalists and experts from Thai PBS:

Do you think you are in a better position to them to ascertain whether the footage is fake? Or will you go for the facile explanation that they've been bought off?; no proof or even evidence of that necessary, of course.

Now lets talk about rambling.

"I've seen the cctv video and will keep my conclusions to myself...."

OK

"but as I have already stated there is a likeness for a certain person"

You just did what you said you were not going to do....

"and while we are at it, you earlier quoted various testimony from Maung Maung indicating (since you posted it) that you believed it"

I posted or quoted? They are not the same thing; I don't recall doing neither on this thread for that matter, so your assumptions on what I believe on are rather incongruous.

"Maung Maung also stated that he spoke to Nomsod in AC bar earlier that night, what is true I have no idea..."

Did he? never mind I'll play along.

"but it seems pointless to keep posting all this non-substantiated dribble"

You contradicted yourself within one paragraph.

"I am going to pay less attention to your ramblings and also those of JTJ and Balo, in my opinion you all have questionable motives for your prolific repetitive posts on this thread, in my opinion it is very much in trolling territory as you all keep repeating the same things over and over and bating people"

My "questionable motives" are that I don't like it when people play fast and loose with facts or engage in irresponsible speculation and rumor mongering, specially not when doing so in order to justify their prejudices, personal agendas or just to satisfy their need for attention, doubly so when it's used to attack and demonize people and more than anything when doing that gets on the way of actual justice for the victims of a horrible crime.

[Chetzee]

I see that the now troll with zero credibility due to his lies (JTJ) is back again with even more imagined truths.

AT NO POINT did the two accused ( who may well be guilty) say that they had been scalded with boiling water.

This as a claim made ( and proof shown in photos) by 2 of the football team that were playing in death island.

If I am wrong, give me the official link, remembering that I have been following this case from day 1 and have a very good memory, as well as links.

Perhaps we can expand my questioning further to those that think it has been a perfect case:

1. Headman states that his son went back to Bangkok as he had exams to do. Apart from the classmates who say he did not turn up for them WHY would his father then retract those statements and say his son had not been on the islnd for 2 weeks ( 1 month in another interview that may have been misinterpreted)

2. Why would his 'inseparable' gf post on her facebook page that she had not seen him for 3 days and could not contact him?

3. Why would his female relative say he was with her in Bangkok when it was proven she was in Pattaya?.

4. Why did he go 'missing' for a week almost?

5. Why would the policeman in charge of the case ( before being abruptly transferred ( WITH NO PREVIOUS NOTICE that can be proved) state quite firmly that he had EVIDENCE that IMPLICATED both the headmans brother and the headmans son?

6. Why would a chat with them clear that ( as he described) incriminating evidence) their involvement?

I have more but I think thats enough for now except to quote JTJ's post which said ' dont feed the trolls'. For those not familiar with trollesque I will interpret: 'Oh, sheet, I've been rumbled, I'll exit with an insult.'

New Poster.

All this stuff you are making reference to has been dealt with or posted here several times already. To the point people are complaining of seeing this over and over and over again. Starting with the fact that many of us here don't take what is written on Facebook, or other Gossip Columns as the Gospel Truth.

I only have one question for you.

Why don't you read up what has been posted here first instead of what you read in the Gossip Columns, and then ask a question? Asking someone to the answer to 6 question which have not been proved by Credible Link, because you did not provide one, is pretty ridiculous don't you think? .

PMSL....... you guys are truely laughable ...... you can learn from Dennis , he is succinct , and to the point . whereas you fill these pages with paragraph upon paragraph of pure drivel and off repeated dogma ... Try moving up a couple of gears !

[Fat Haggis]

So you think he is involved because a cop said so... guess what? the same cop said he wasn't involved when an alibi was proven.

You choose to believe one thing and not the other, even though the one you don't want to believe in has been corroborated by third parties.

yes the same cop soon after declared he wasn't involved, I wonder who had a word in his ear, I have a fair idea.

corroborated by what 3rd parties, show me the verifiable evidence that stands up to scrutiny and I will believe

I've seen the cctv video and will keep my conclusions to myself, but as I have already stated there is a likeness for a certain person

and while we are at it, you earlier quoted various testimony from Maung Maung indicating (since you posted it) that you believed it, Maung Maung also stated that he spoke to Nomsod in AC bar earlier that night, what is true I have no idea but it seems pointless to keep posting all this non-substantiated dribble

I am going to pay less attention to your ramblings and also those of JTJ and Balo, in my opinion you all have questionable motives for your prolific repetitive posts on this thread, in my opinion it is very much in trolling territory as you all keep repeating the same things over and over and bating people

"yes the same cop soon after declared he wasn't involved, I wonder who had a word in his ear, I have a fair idea. "

I'm sure you have an idea, I very much doubt it's a fair one.

"corroborated by what 3rd parties, show me the verifiable evidence that stands up to scrutiny and I will believe"

For example by journalists and experts from Thai PBS:

Do you think you are in a better position to them to ascertain whether the footage is fake? Or will you go for the facile explanation that they've been bought off?; no proof or even evidence of that necessary, of course.

Now lets talk about rambling.

"I've seen the cctv video and will keep my conclusions to myself...."

OK

"but as I have already stated there is a likeness for a certain person"

You just did what you said you were not going to do....

"and while we are at it, you earlier quoted various testimony from Maung Maung indicating (since you posted it) that you believed it"

I posted or quoted? They are not the same thing; I don't recall doing neither on this thread for that matter, so your assumptions on what I believe on are rather incongruous.

"Maung Maung also stated that he spoke to Nomsod in AC bar earlier that night, what is true I have no idea..."

Did he? never mind I'll play along.

"but it seems pointless to keep posting all this non-substantiated dribble"

You contradicted yourself within one paragraph.

"I am going to pay less attention to your ramblings and also those of JTJ and Balo, in my opinion you all have questionable motives for your prolific repetitive posts on this thread, in my opinion it is very much in trolling territory as you all keep repeating the same things over and over and bating people"

My "questionable motives" are that I don't like it when people play fast and loose with facts or engage in irresponsible speculation and rumor mongering, specially not when doing so in order to justify their prejudices, personal agendas or just to satisfy their need for attention, doubly so when it's used to attack and demonize people and more than anything when doing that gets on the way of actual justice for the victims of a horrible crime.

Your last paragraph sums up the RTP perfectly as that's exactly what they have done all through this case!!

[Si Thea01]

This question is for you, Balo. Since you seem to know for sure NS was in Bangkok. If his life is ruined and he is so depressed why is he doing nothing to prove his innocence? That's what I would do if I were him and I really had nothing to do with all this, I'd give interviews to all who asked, make my phone records public, find CCTV of me in BKK the night before or even the day before. I would submit to polygraphs, agree to take a truth syrum so long as my attorney is present... I would send the running man bid to FBI and ask them to compare my walk to the running mans walking style (it can be done)

Anything, I'm telling you ANYTHING I could do to clear my name from what was done to David and Hannah.. And yet, none of the people suspected are doing that.. Quite the opposite really.

Of course you don't have to answer it's no demand.. I'm just curious what you think about it?

I understand that this is addressed to balo but if I may ask, has this person, and I take it you are referring to Nomsod, been charged with any offence relating to this matter. If he hasn't then he is deemed innocent and is not obliged to prove or provide anything to anyone, however, if he was charged, then what you are talking about is the task of investigating police in order to establish a person's involvement. And no, I am not sticking up for him, just telling you the way it works in the real world.

............. And no, I am not sticking up for him, just telling you the way it works in the real world.

life in ruins , no doubt depressed , huge newwork and money behind him and his family , now let me tell you in the real world the sullied do not give polygraph test . They and with the help of their lawyer Sue , and Sue large . Panya as an individual , Tv stations , RTP .. the list is long , but all we hear is scilence ....

no go figure that !

It would be nice to know what you on about? You want me to figure it out from what you have written, figure out what?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Just a quick search on the internet resulted in numerous ways the police allegedly tortured these two. Are there more claims?

interrogators said they would kill them

The interrogators told them to confess to the crime, and threatened to cut off their limbs, put them in a bag, and dump them in a river if they did not.

The police also threatened to tie the two boys to a tyre, pour petrol on it, and set it alight.

he was beaten and threatened with electrocution after refusing to confess

they had been scalded with boiling water during a police interrogation

they were forced to confess to the crimes after police punched and slapped them during interrogations.

They covered our heads with black plastic bags and threatened to stab us with a nail-like object

withdrawn their confessions claiming police beat it out of them.

As a side note, the health of the suspects was checked by at least three doctors from different organisations, including the Rights and Liberties Protection Department, who did not detect signs of physical assault.

"We prosecutors pay more attention to witness statements and evidence (not confessions)," said Thawatchai Siangjaew, director-general of the Office of Public Prosecution Region 8.

"More importantly, forensic evidence and statements given by medical doctors are treated as the most important elements when we decide whether or not to indictsuspects."

I think Water Torture, Electric Shock Torture, and Stripping them Naked and taking pictures of them to post on the Internet were some more they came up with. Not sure if anything is left besides Medieval Torture ones?

how about - if you don't say and do exactly what we tell you we cannot protect you while in jail, do you understand, now sign here. oh and we need a sperm sample from you by tomorrow morning

eventually they get legal representation who convince them to tell the truth, oh and in the west they would have had legal council with them at all interviews as a legal right.

Sperm collected and sent to labs and DNA typed way before these two were hauled in.

They are still around and were not scared to tell their lawyers and the embassy they were abused by police while they were also telling these representatives that yes in deed they committed the crimes while also downplaying their actions by saying things like they were drunk and didn't mean to kill them.

Edited July 27, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn