Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[GOLDBUGGY]

The taxi guy says he was beaten when he didn't take the money and lie about what he saw that night. Essentially he was treated the same way as the B2.... Patterns, Man.

Proof from Hospital Records he was beaten? X-rays showing broken bones? Testimony to a Doctor how this happened? Witnesses who saw this? Witnesses he said this to shortly after his beating? Bruises or marks on his body to show any sign of a beating?

Yes! You are Right! The same as the B2 are claiming.

[balo]

I think we can conclude that this thread will lead to nowhere. Take a break guys and gals.

[GOLDBUGGY]

If the Police were so adamant they had the right guys, would they not have wanted to test the Hoe for fingerprints, to further back up their "Rock Solid" DNA evidence.

I don't understand how the defenders can read all these articles and not have their faith in the RTP shaken even a little, and accusing the media of distorting the facts is not going to cut it.

Well, and as the Forensic Expert said in court, they did check for Finger Prints and DNA on the Hoe but didn't find any. All they could find was Hannah's Blood on it.

I don't understand how people can distort the facts when they are written right in front of their nose but they don't read them. They just keep distorting them. .

[smedly]

Third Burmese said he did not witness murder

A third Burmese man, Maung Maung, who is being held in custody as a witness to a case involving the murder of two British tourists on the Thai island of Koh Tao, said he did not witness the killing.

Lawyer Aung Myo Thant and MAT representative Kyaw Thaung both confirmed to DVB that Maung Maung had told the embassy team that he had witnessed Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun in bed sleeping when he returned to the room at 5am and that nothing seemed suspicious.

According to Kyaw Thaung: “Maung Maung said he woke them up and asked them, ‘Where is the guitar?’ at which point one of the pair indicated it was in AC Bar [where the British couple, Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, had been drinking with friends the night before]. Maung Maung said he then went to AC Bar to look for the guitar and his sandals, ‘because they were expensive – 350 baht’, he said.

https://www.dvb.no/news/third-burmese-said-he-did-not-witness-murder-burma-myanmar/44856

Muang Muang.jpg

PerfectInvestigation-BengaliRotiSeller.jpg

the guy in the photo to the right could well be running man, I went running to AC bar to get my 340b shoes and my guitar at 5:44 in the morning - I smell a rat right there, now he is gone and unavailable to incriminate anyone else just like Sean, I think it is time for B2 to speak up even if they admit involvement or that they were there, how did this stuff end up in AC bar ?, you know what, I'm getting the impression if the truth actually came out it would be a real shocker

there is so much conflicting information and statements that it is extremely difficult to work out what is going on, this guy maung is another critical witness that has disappeared - I cannot but wonder why

[GOLDBUGGY]

And as a footnote. Your buddy who wasn't there apparently and wasn't involved in the murders was busy running around the Island Like a demented chicken with his head cut off and yet the ' murderers ' after committing such a gruesome crime and splattered with blood and goodness knows what went quietly to bed and to sleep and no doubt dream. Yes that all sounds likely doesn't it. After all they had work next day and perish the thought that a little battering and killing of people would get in the way of that. No guys, smell the coffee.! Hardened criminals with a life of crime and murder couldn't do that !! But crack on with your version if you like because there's only 3 of you believing it.

Well, working the next day in the AC Bar may very well mean starting at 4 pm.

I wonder if the running man leaving the Migrant Workers Compound and caught on camera at 05:41 am was Muang, their roommate, and was going to get his guitar they left behind, and that he alleges that the 2 accused said they left at the AC Bar?

I mean it seems a bit odd to me that if I was sitting on the beach all night drinking and playing my friends guitar, to walk back to the AC Bar in the opposite direction of where I lived, to drop of the Guitar at the AC Bar, which doesn't belong their but instead belongs to my roommate, then go home without it. Especially when my roommate came home at 5 am, asked where his guitar was, and then went to get it at the AC Bar, which I highly doubt would be open at that time.

Of course maybe the 2 accused forgot where they put it being so drunk, and left it on the beach? But this still seems odd to me to. I mean sitting their and playing a Guitar all night and drinking, then getting up to go home you set it down and leaving something so valuable their.

But then if I got sidetracked and I didn't want to take the Guitar with me, because I wanted to hold something else, I would probably hide it in the bushes then go and do what I got sidetracked on. Perhaps then I could see myself forgetting about the guitar an hour later, and especially if I was drunk and excited about something else.

[Sheryl]

Innumerable posts removed:

Trolling

Flaming

Off topic

Etc etc etc

[berybert]

Hey GB if it was you why would you run to the AC bar and not use your motorbike?

[GOLDBUGGY]

Hey GB if it was you why would you run to the AC bar and not use your motorbike?

Well first, is it my motor bike to drive? Considering I am a Migrant Worker do I have a Drivers License to drive it? Can I drive it on the beach as many places don't let you? How far away is it to where it is parked? Do I know how to drive a Motor Bike?

Well, my honest answer to you is I never drove a Motor Bike before, so no I would not take this motor bike as I don't know how to drive it.

I am not sure what their answer would be. There was only one driver on CCTV, and if it is the one who was on the beach he would be too drunk to drive.

[smedly]

I'm going to suggest that there is or will be a poster on here who professes to support the b2 but is seeking information to assist the prosecution. It could be me.

I think the bottom line is that most of the people contributing to this thread simply want to make sure that the animals that committed this heinous depraved crime are brought to justice - all of them

[berybert]

Hey GB if it was you why would you run to the AC bar and not use your motorbike?

Well first, is it my motor bike to drive? Considering I am a Migrant Worker do I have a Drivers License to drive it? Can I drive it on the beach as many places don't let you? How far away is it to where it is parked? Do I know how to drive a Motor Bike?

Well, my honest answer to you is I never drove a Motor Bike before, so no I would not take this motor bike as I don't know how to drive it.

I am not sure what their answer would be. There was only one driver on CCTV, and if it is the one who was on the beach he would be too drunk to drive.

You said it was Muang who was seen 5.41on CCTV so why do you now mention drunk people one the beach ? Muang wasn't on the beach at that time.

[loonodingle]

Hey GB if it was you why would you run to the AC bar and not use your motorbike?

Well first, is it my motor bike to drive? Considering I am a Migrant Worker do I have a Drivers License to drive it? Can I drive it on the beach as many places don't let you? How far away is it to where it is parked? Do I know how to drive a Motor Bike?

Well, my honest answer to you is I never drove a Motor Bike before, so no I would not take this motor bike as I don't know how to drive it.

I am not sure what their answer would be. There was only one driver on CCTV, and if it is the one who was on the beach he would be too drunk to drive.

You said it was Muang who was seen 5.41on CCTV so why do you now mention drunk people one the beach ? Muang wasn't on the beach at that time.

Didnt muang muang work in the A/C bar. You also have to remember that they are all m8s they hang around together work together sleep together in same room. I think Muang is to heavy set to be running man.

[loonodingle]

The suggestion the cleaner who found the bodys has been murdered has been denied By Andy Hall and his colleagues.

[IslandLover]

What happened to your reading abilities? I posted a quote from an article as a link. f you can bring yourself to stop trolling to avoid facts you don't like you may give this another go:

"2 October: Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo are arrested. Zaw Lin is apprehended at Koh Tao and Wai Phyo at a ferry terminal in Muang district in the Surat Thani province on the mainland."

So, who got arrested at the ferry terminal then? I thought that Win Zaw Htun and Zaw Lin were on trial so who is Wai Phyo?

Intellectual honesty?

Please, can't anybody get their facts right on this forum? Win Zaw Htun is also known as Wai (or Wei) Phyo. This is a documented fact. Why he has two names, I have no idea. Win/Wai are one and the same person

And for the record, it was Win Zaw Htun/Wai Phyo who was arrested at the ferry terminal in Surat Thani.

[Nigeone]

Wow. Is it safe to come back in now? What was that all about obviously the recruitment drive didn't do a IQ test and a age verification.

[boomerangutang]

on the same report which is not correct as David had been stabbed a hoe wouldn't make them marks,

"He admitted to being sexually aroused and along with his two accomplices had used the hoe to beat the male tourist and then dumping his body in the sea. They then proceeded to rape the woman and finally killing her by hitting her with the same garden hoe."

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/three-migrant-workers-confess-rape-murder-british-tourists

Note: the B2 both agreed they used a broken bottle to kill David. There was no mention and no indications of a broken bottle (or glass pieces) at or near the crime scene. The bottle idea was introduced at the inquisition by the pancake seller (or one of the fist-clenching, teeth gnashing top brass standing alongside). The B2 would have agreed to anything at that inappropriately named 'safe house'. Yet more proof they were tortured.

[StealthEnergiser]

on the same report which is not correct as David had been stabbed a hoe wouldn't make them marks,

"He admitted to being sexually aroused and along with his two accomplices had used the hoe to beat the male tourist and then dumping his body in the sea. They then proceeded to rape the woman and finally killing her by hitting her with the same garden hoe."

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/three-migrant-workers-confess-rape-murder-british-tourists

Note: the B2 both agreed they used a broken bottle to kill David. There was no mention and no indications of a broken bottle (or glass pieces) at or near the crime scene. The bottle idea was introduced at the inquisition by the pancake seller (or one of the fist-clenching, teeth gnashing top brass standing alongside). The B2 would have agreed to anything at that inappropriately named 'safe house'. Yet more proof they were tortured.

I wan't to see how the RTP defend this one if proven to be true , how could they possibly miss a gunshot injury ?

The defence theory is that the hoe was used to hide gunshot wounds and the bodies were arranged to disguise what had actually occurred. A photo taken of Witheridge as she lay dead on the beach that has been obtained by The Sunday Times appears to show shrapnel wounds to her face.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Crime/article1574330.ece

[smedly]

on the same report which is not correct as David had been stabbed a hoe wouldn't make them marks,

"He admitted to being sexually aroused and along with his two accomplices had used the hoe to beat the male tourist and then dumping his body in the sea. They then proceeded to rape the woman and finally killing her by hitting her with the same garden hoe."

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/three-migrant-workers-confess-rape-murder-british-tourists

Note: the B2 both agreed they used a broken bottle to kill David. There was no mention and no indications of a broken bottle (or glass pieces) at or near the crime scene. The bottle idea was introduced at the inquisition by the pancake seller (or one of the fist-clenching, teeth gnashing top brass standing alongside). The B2 would have agreed to anything at that inappropriately named 'safe house'. Yet more proof they were tortured.

Police - ask them if they committed these murders

interpreter - were you on the beach that night

B2 - krap

interpreter - they said yes

interpreter - sign this Thai written statement, it says you had nothing to do with this crime

B2 - krap

exactly why they should never have been interviewed without proper council present, then none of this torture (deleted) would be in discussion

In the west police must work within certain rules or they could in fact destroy the chance of convicting someone if they step outside the box

If an investigation leads them to a person of interest they can interview that person (not arrested), the person is free to leave at any time, if they have evidence strong enough for an arrest then that person becomes a suspect and is not free to leave - is read their rights and has the right to legal council, it is easy to see how and why this happens

[boomerangutang]

Hey GB if it was you why would you run to the AC bar and not use your motorbike?

Well first, is it my motor bike to drive? Considering I am a Migrant Worker do I have a Drivers License to drive it? Can I drive it on the beach as many places don't let you? How far away is it to where it is parked? Do I know how to drive a Motor Bike?

Well, my honest answer to you is I never drove a Motor Bike before, so no I would not take this motor bike as I don't know how to drive it.

I am not sure what their answer would be. There was only one driver on CCTV, and if it is the one who was on the beach he would be too drunk to drive.

You said it was Muang who was seen 5.41on CCTV so why do you now mention drunk people one the beach ? Muang wasn't on the beach at that time.

Didnt muang muang work in the A/C bar. You also have to remember that they are all m8s they hang around together work together sleep together in same room. I think Muang is to heavy set to be running man.

It's been pointed out by IslandLife that there are two young Burmese men named Muang Muang related to this case. One is a DJ at AC bar who says he had an interaction with Nomsod at AC bar on the night of the murder. He also says David was peripherally involved with that interaction. Apparently, he split to Burma 2 days after the crime. We can call him MMAC (Muang Muang AC).

The other was the 3rd Burmese who was rounded up by cops. We've all seen his photo. He bought cigs at the convenience store 5 hours before the crime. He was let go as a suspect by cops because he couldn't be cowered in to signing a false confession. Cops were annoyed by that because MMB3 (Muang Muang of the Burmese 3) resembled Running Man more than either of the B2 (though much less so than Nomsod). I think MMB3 owns the motorbike. He will probably be a witness for the defense, because he will attest that when he returned back to the shack he shares with the B2, they were both asleep. Sleeping isn't something a person does after committing a heinous crime minutes earlier. Note: try as they might, cops couldn't find any blood evidence at the B2's shack. If they were guilty, there would likely be blood evidence all over the place; clothes, shoes, bodies, floor, bathroom, etc. Even serious cleaning wouldn't get rid of it all.

[Darkknight666]

Last one for tonight. Taxi drivers don't get offered 700k baht for false testimony against migrant workers! They'd turn them over for free. Hell. They may even get a reward around here.

There goes that misleading information again!

The Taxi Driver, who people here call was offered a Bribe, and was Interrogation by the Police, had nothing to do with the 2 Accused. This was in relation to a Foot Ball Team who became suspects.

The Taxi Driver was not offered a Bribe. He was offered the Reward Money which at that time was 700K, if he could give them evidence that this guys did it. Since he could not, this was dropped.

He was offered a bribe, according to pretty much all the journals reporting at that time. here are excerpts from two of them

"Thai police investigating the murder of two British backpackers tried to bribe a taxi driver to give false evidence against a football team then beat him up when he refused, it was claimed today.

Pornprasit Sukdam claims he was offered 700,000 baht (£13,300) if he agreed to be a fake witness to events leading up to the deaths of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge in Koh Tao."

"Pornprasit said the police detained him at 1.30 pm on Monday. During the interrogation, the police investigators asked him to agree to pretend to have knowledge of the incident, Pornprasit said. The police allegedly offered him a 700,000 baht (about 21,600 USD) reward and guaranteed him witness status. However, since he was not involved with the crime and did not have any knowledge related to it, Pornprasit declined the police offer. That made the police angry, he said. The police allegedly beat him up before releasing him on Monday at 6.30 pm."

Apparently the taxi driver is a member of the football club, Sun Service Team, and would not stitch up his club mates.

I'll do your reading for you Globby, someone needs to.

​*edited to harmonise font sizes

Sorry but I did not see where you said that the "so called" Bribe was to get the Taxi Driver to make a false evidence against the migrant workers and as the first post stated and in which I replies to say this was misleading. You can't even read and understand what has been written before you own eyes.

Your claim has never been proven.

And don't call me names Sami Boy. My name is Goldlbuggy not Globby. Try to be civil enough to follow house rules! .

Try again, Uncle GoldBuggy.

Man says police beat him after he declines to be witness in Koh Tao murder cases

by taweporn

KOH TAO: -- Thai man said he was beaten up by police after he turned down the police offer to give him reward money if he agreed to be a witness in the murder case of of the two British tourists in Thailands touristic island of Koh Tao, southern Surat Thani province, according to ASTV-Manager online.

The report says Pornprasit Sukdam, 37, on Tuesday complained with Kobchai Saowalak, kamnan of Koh Tao sub-district, and asked for protection.

Pornprasit said the police detained him on Monday 1.30pm. During the interrogation, the police investigators persuaded him to agree to pretend to have knowledge of the incident, Pornprasit said. The police allegedly offered him 700,000 baht (about 21,600 USD) reward and guaranteed that he has the witness status. However, since he was not involved with the crime and did not hold knowledge related to it, Pornprasit declined the polices offer.

That made the police angry, he said. The police allegedly beat him up before released him on Monday 6.30pm.

He decided to tell this story to others since the police planned to interrogate him again on Tuesday and he feared to be beaten up again.

He added that he does not plan to pursue case against the police, but wants to assert his innocence. He is willing to cooperate with the police, but not by force.

Meanwhile, kamnan of Koh Tao sub-district urged the police not to use violence with the suspects and not to arrest a scapegoat.

Pornprasit is a taxi driver on Koh Tao and member of the Sun Service Football team. There was a football match held on the day of the murders. The team members are now the focus of the police investigators.

The bodies of Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, were found with severe head wounds on September 15.

Source: http://prachatai.org/english/node/4373

--Prachathai English: 2014-09-30

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764755-man-says-police-beat-him-after-he-declines-to-be-witness-in-koh-tao-murder-cases/

Want me to voice record it for you? Give me your email, obviously your reading comprehension is terrible.. Or selective.

[Darkknight666]

Have a read of what the great human rights defender Andy Hall has hidden in his small print on the 21st october.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/justice-koh-tao-murder-case/#/story.

also here

http://res.cloudinary.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_620/v1430880746/vlwjlxyhvartbhkkux4b.pdf

Cant see anything hidden, its on a website open for viewing for the whole world to read..................do you want to be just a tad more specific

They admit to "finding" (robbing) Davids phone, oh yeah even though they were so drunk they couldn't walk,

No wonder the only thing that keeps coming out of Andys mouth is DNA DNA he should have worked for OJ.

But did they keep this Mobile Phone alleged to be David's worth 2 or 3 months of their wages? No! Of course not? It is alleged that what they did instead was they gave it to a Friend. How generous!

Now you would think this close friend would be grateful for such a fine gift wouldn't you? But it is alleged that he tries this Mobile Phone and it doesn't work. So what does he do next? Does he get a SIM Card and try again? Does he give it back to who ever gave him this fine gift? Does he turn it into the Lost and Found? Oh No!....No!...,No! It is alleged that he smashes it into small pieces then puts it in a Plastic Bag then throws it into the bushes behind his accommodations. Sounds plausible to me....I think?

Wasn't it one of their other friends like this who was drinking with them, also say he did not think the 2 accused did this crime? Nice to have Friends like that!

The phone was smashes, genius. It's worth close to nothing.

How's your boy? A little scared? Good.

[Darkknight666]

Last one for tonight. Taxi drivers don't get offered 700k baht for false testimony against migrant workers! They'd turn them over for free. Hell. They may even get a reward around here.

There goes that misleading information again!

The Taxi Driver, who people here call was offered a Bribe, and was Interrogation by the Police, had nothing to do with the 2 Accused. This was in relation to a Foot Ball Team who became suspects.

The Taxi Driver was not offered a Bribe. He was offered the Reward Money which at that time was 700K, if he could give them evidence that this guys did it. Since he could not, this was dropped.

He was offered a bribe, according to pretty much all the journals reporting at that time. here are excerpts from two of them

"Thai police investigating the murder of two British backpackers tried to bribe a taxi driver to give false evidence against a football team then beat him up when he refused, it was claimed today.

Pornprasit Sukdam claims he was offered 700,000 baht (£13,300) if he agreed to be a fake witness to events leading up to the deaths of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge in Koh Tao."

"Pornprasit said the police detained him at 1.30 pm on Monday. During the interrogation, the police investigators asked him to agree to pretend to have knowledge of the incident, Pornprasit said. The police allegedly offered him a 700,000 baht (about 21,600 USD) reward and guaranteed him witness status. However, since he was not involved with the crime and did not have any knowledge related to it, Pornprasit declined the police offer. That made the police angry, he said. The police allegedly beat him up before releasing him on Monday at 6.30 pm."

Apparently the taxi driver is a member of the football club, Sun Service Team, and would not stitch up his club mates.

I'll do your reading for you Globby, someone needs to.

​*edited to harmonise font sizes

Sorry but I did not see where you said that the "so called" Bribe was to get the Taxi Driver to make a false evidence against the migrant workers and as the first post stated and in which I replies to say this was misleading. You can't even read and understand what has been written before you own eyes.

Your claim has never been proven.

And don't call me names Sami Boy. My name is Goldlbuggy not Globby. Try to be civil enough to follow house rules! .

Try again, Uncle GoldBuggy.

Man says police beat him after he declines to be witness in Koh Tao murder cases

by taweporn

KOH TAO: -- Thai man said he was beaten up by police after he turned down the police offer to give him reward money if he agreed to be a witness in the murder case of of the two British tourists in Thailands touristic island of Koh Tao, southern Surat Thani province, according to ASTV-Manager online.

The report says Pornprasit Sukdam, 37, on Tuesday complained with Kobchai Saowalak, kamnan of Koh Tao sub-district, and asked for protection.

Pornprasit said the police detained him on Monday 1.30pm. During the interrogation, the police investigators persuaded him to agree to pretend to have knowledge of the incident, Pornprasit said. The police allegedly offered him 700,000 baht (about 21,600 USD) reward and guaranteed that he has the witness status. However, since he was not involved with the crime and did not hold knowledge related to it, Pornprasit declined the polices offer.

That made the police angry, he said. The police allegedly beat him up before released him on Monday 6.30pm.

He decided to tell this story to others since the police planned to interrogate him again on Tuesday and he feared to be beaten up again.

He added that he does not plan to pursue case against the police, but wants to assert his innocence. He is willing to cooperate with the police, but not by force.

Meanwhile, kamnan of Koh Tao sub-district urged the police not to use violence with the suspects and not to arrest a scapegoat.

Pornprasit is a taxi driver on Koh Tao and member of the Sun Service Football team. There was a football match held on the day of the murders. The team members are now the focus of the police investigators.

The bodies of Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, were found with severe head wounds on September 15.

Source: http://prachatai.org/english/node/4373

--Prachathai English: 2014-09-30

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764755-man-says-police-beat-him-after-he-declines-to-be-witness-in-koh-tao-murder-cases/

Want me to voice record it for you? Give me your email, obviously your reading comprehension is terrible.. Or selective.

RTP asked him to "pretend" to have knowledge of the crime for money... = bribery, corruption.

Not very difficult. I don't care if it was ฿2,000.

You have no legs on this one Buggy.

[boomerangutang]

There's a special tool for looking for blood remains. It's like a 'black light' and has been used by farang detectives for decades. It's very effective and not expensive. Do RTP have such a tool? Even now, nearly a year after the crime, it would behoove RTP investigators (if we can call them that) to get one of those tools and check all around everyplace that Mon hangs out: his room, his bathroom, the kitchen at his bar(s), where he does laundry, his back yard, the strange stand-alone no-window room alongside AC bar (empty except for a mattress on the floor). Same for Nomsod's place and all their tough-guy buddies.

Farang harbor this quaint notion that detectives are supposed to do investigative work. In Thailand, detectives are only supposed to appear to be busy for a little while. Then, when suspects are named, nothing more to be done, except maybe write a fictional semi-believable story to send to prosecutors. In farang lands, detectives are on the alert all their waking hours - looking, listening, thinking. If nothing else comes out of this sham of an investigation, perhaps Thai cops will learn a modicum about how to investigate a crime.

[boomerangutang]

I think we can conclude that this thread will lead to nowhere. Take a break guys and gals.

I agree there's a lot of dross. However, even if just some posts clear up some points, it's worthwhile. There are 3 basic things in balance right now.

>>> Justice for H and D, and a semblance of closure for their families,

>>> Justice for the scapegoats (they too have families),

>>> rounding up and prosecuting the real perps, thereby (among other things) making Ko Tao a bit safer for tourists.

RTP aren't doing their jobs. That's a big reason why there's so much discussion going on.

[stephenterry]

I think we can conclude that this thread will lead to nowhere. Take a break guys and gals.

I agree there's a lot of dross. However, even if just some posts clear up some points, it's worthwhile. There are 3 basic things in balance right now.

>>> Justice for H and D, and a semblance of closure for their families,

>>> Justice for the scapegoats (they too have families),

>>> rounding up and prosecuting the real perps, thereby (among other things) making Ko Tao a bit safer for tourists.

RTP aren't doing their jobs. That's a big reason why there's so much discussion going on.

Even a wider issue of challenging Thai authorities to establish the (much-hated) police force as a Royal Thai police that is morally robust. As it stands, the rampant corruption and scapegoating is an insult to the monarchy. Hopefully, this trial will see the start of a sea-change in opinion.

[Darkknight666]

I believe if the B2 were guilty we'd have much more CCTV to prove it... Less police intimidation, less attempting to pin it on Farangs and threaten they'll hang. Sadly, Burmese are the lowest of the low here in Thailand. The cops picked the weakest target, only their terrible at even that.

People who threaten defamation and never follow through usually don't want to be looked at too closely themselves. At least in my experience.

[saminoz]

I think we can conclude that this thread will lead to nowhere. Take a break guys and gals.

I agree there's a lot of dross. However, even if just some posts clear up some points, it's worthwhile. There are 3 basic things in balance right now.

>>> Justice for H and D, and a semblance of closure for their families,

>>> Justice for the scapegoats (they too have families),

>>> rounding up and prosecuting the real perps, thereby (among other things) making Ko Tao a bit safer for tourists.

RTP aren't doing their jobs. That's a big reason why there's so much discussion going on.

Even a wider issue of challenging Thai authorities to establish the (much-hated) police force as a Royal Thai police that is morally robust. As it stands, the rampant corruption and scapegoating is an insult to the monarchy. Hopefully, this trial will see the start of a sea-change in opinion.

That's actually a very good point ST. Calling them the Royal Thai Police is an insult to the monarchy and their actions probably constitute Lesse Majeste on so many levels.

One thing is for sure, as the RTP they bring the monarchy into disrepute on a daily basis.

[smedly]

There's a special tool for looking for blood remains. It's like a 'black light' and has been used by farang detectives for decades. It's very effective and not expensive. Do RTP have such a tool? Even now, nearly a year after the crime, it would behoove RTP investigators (if we can call them that) to get one of those tools and check all around everyplace that Mon hangs out: his room, his bathroom, the kitchen at his bar(s), where he does laundry, his back yard, the strange stand-alone no-window room alongside AC bar (empty except for a mattress on the floor). Same for Nomsod's place and all their tough-guy buddies.

Farang harbor this quaint notion that detectives are supposed to do investigative work. In Thailand, detectives are only supposed to appear to be busy for a little while. Then, when suspects are named, nothing more to be done, except maybe write a fictional semi-believable story to send to prosecutors. In farang lands, detectives are on the alert all their waking hours - looking, listening, thinking. If nothing else comes out of this sham of an investigation, perhaps Thai cops will learn a modicum about how to investigate a crime.

good post

and like I have said many times, I believe more time and effort went into hiding/destroying/ignoring evidence that pointed to other suspects or would exclude B2 and trying to sift out or manipulate something that vaguely pointed at B2, now they are being called to account and the elephant in the room is getting bigger and bigger by the day.

two weeks into this trial and we have seen absolutely nothing that remotely points to B2 as anything more than persons of interest - yes they were on the beach that night - well whoopy doo, dna ? well they say it was a match but not verified and until that happens is nothing more than a hearsay - left the crime scene on a motorbike - show us the cctv with time stamp - confession ? not admissible, the police witness in court - I know nothing about this investigation and have been told not to answer any questions

the whole thing is a complete sham and quite honestly disgusting, because even if B2 were involved IMO a guilty verdict is impossible and the others that were involved but sidestepped will remain free to continue raping abusing and murdering on Ko Tao

[GOLDBUGGY]

on the same report which is not correct as David had been stabbed a hoe wouldn't make them marks,

"He admitted to being sexually aroused and along with his two accomplices had used the hoe to beat the male tourist and then dumping his body in the sea. They then proceeded to rape the woman and finally killing her by hitting her with the same garden hoe."

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/three-migrant-workers-confess-rape-murder-british-tourists

Note: the B2 both agreed they used a broken bottle to kill David. There was no mention and no indications of a broken bottle (or glass pieces) at or near the crime scene. The bottle idea was introduced at the inquisition by the pancake seller (or one of the fist-clenching, teeth gnashing top brass standing alongside). The B2 would have agreed to anything at that inappropriately named 'safe house'. Yet more proof they were tortured.

To be honest Boomer, I never saw it written anywhere in which the B2 said they used a bottle in this crime. Never heard there was one as evidence either. I actually only heard of this recently. But not saying it doesn't exist. I just never saw this written before without some credible link to prove it.

A wooden club was thought to be involved in this crime as well. I can understand why they my have thought this as to look at the head wounds on Hannah I originally thought it could have been a baseball bat. But if they can't tie evidence to the club then becomes speculation and it remains just a wooden club.

The same with the hoe. If they did not find Hannah's Blood on it then it would just be a hoe and not a murder weapon. But then you don't need a murder weapon to get a conviction for murder. Otherwise, just throw your hand gun over the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco and you committed the perfect crime.

We all know that putting pressure on the suspect during interrogations is common practice by all Police Forces in the world. Like good cop/bad cop. I think we all can agree that if this line is cross by using torture or threats on your life to get a confession, then this is wrong. But as it stands now, and as you know, there is no proof of that, except from the 2 accused. Who are on Trial for murder and who retracted their confessions, and quite frankly, would probably say anything to get off.

Having said that, I don' think their confession alone is going to hold much water in a court of law. They were asked in court if they are guilty or innocent, and since they replied innocent the case is based on that. If it wasn't then we wouldn't have a Trial now, we would have a Sentence Hearing. But this is not to say that anything they said while they confessed can't be used, such as disclosing where this Mobile Phone was.

If the 2 accused were forced by torture into confession, and as you claim, then you are missing one very valid point to all that. A Forced Confession is simple a Forced Confession. It's doesn't exonerate them from the crime or prove there innocents. They still could have done this crime whether they were forced to admit it or not.

[smedly]

on the same report which is not correct as David had been stabbed a hoe wouldn't make them marks,

"He admitted to being sexually aroused and along with his two accomplices had used the hoe to beat the male tourist and then dumping his body in the sea. They then proceeded to rape the woman and finally killing her by hitting her with the same garden hoe."

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/three-migrant-workers-confess-rape-murder-british-tourists

Note: the B2 both agreed they used a broken bottle to kill David. There was no mention and no indications of a broken bottle (or glass pieces) at or near the crime scene. The bottle idea was introduced at the inquisition by the pancake seller (or one of the fist-clenching, teeth gnashing top brass standing alongside). The B2 would have agreed to anything at that inappropriately named 'safe house'. Yet more proof they were tortured.

To be honest Boomer, I never saw it written anywhere in which the B2 said they used a bottle in this crime. Never heard there was one as evidence either. I actually only heard of this recently. But not saying it doesn't exist. I just never saw this written before without some credible link to prove it.

A wooden club was thought to be involved in this crime as well. I can understand why they my have thought this as to look at the head wounds on Hannah I originally thought it could have been a baseball bat. But if they can't tie evidence to the club then becomes speculation and it remains just a wooden club.

The same with the hoe. If they did not find Hannah's Blood on it then it would just be a hoe and not a murder weapon. But then you don't need a murder weapon to get a conviction for murder. Otherwise, just throw your hand gun over the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco and you committed the perfect crime.

We all know that putting pressure on the suspect during interrogations is common practice by all Police Forces in the world. Like good cop/bad cop. I think we all can agree that if this line is cross by using torture or threats on your life to get a confession, then this is wrong. But as it stands now, and as you know, there is no proof of that, except from the 2 accused. Who are on Trial for murder and who retracted their confessions, and quite frankly, would probably say anything to get off.

Having said that, I don' think their confession alone is going to hold much water in a court of law. They were asked in court if they are guilty or innocent, and since they replied innocent the case is based on that. If it wasn't then we wouldn't have a Trial now, we would have a Sentence Hearing. But this is not to say that anything they said while they confessed can't be used, such as disclosing where this Mobile Phone was.

If the 2 accused were forced by torture into confession, and as you claim, then you are missing one very valid point to all that. A Forced Confession is simple a Forced Confession. It's doesn't exonerate them from the crime or prove there innocents. They still could have done this crime whether they were forced to admit it or not.

you are watching too many movies and TV shows,

1. As already stated above any person of interest to police can co-operate allowing an interview and is free to involve council at any time or leave at any time

2. If police have grounds for arrest then the choice of leaving is no longer available and a person is read their rights or cautioned (depending on country but amounts to the same thing)

The only pressure that police can and may exert during an interview would be disclosing some facts that could implicate the person in a crime, that person will either know it is BS or could lead to their arrest, after that it is up to them

If the Thai police were 100% convinced of the B2 involvement then they should have followed protocol to the letter and allowed the POI their right to council from the beginning, this would then have progressed to a case and trial that might actually have ended in a conviction, as it stands now IMO they are in deep (deleted)

I have no idea if B2 were involved or not, I can't see my opinion changing when this is all concluded either, the RTP have made a total mess of this from start to finish and that makes me very angry

[GOLDBUGGY]

Nobody to my knowledge has said they do not have the "Chain of Custody" concerning the DNA Tests. All that was said is that the Defense doesn't have that yet. Just like they never had the Hoe, which has been reported that they do now. But time will tell.

They said they lost things (the hair, etc), and they said that DNA 'was all used up'. Add to that, RTP have been dragging their feet in every ridiculous way - trying to avoid any re-examination of DNA. Oh, and RTP's lead investigator said he never saw results of Nomsod's test, didn't know if it was really done, didn't know if it was compared to DNA from victim, and didn't know if the sample still existed or where it was. And even if they did know anything about NS's DNA, they certainly wouldn't share that data with the Brits. If that's not screwing-up 'chain of custody' ....then what is? Everything RTP are doing screams cover-up and screw-up and shielding the H's people.

And then there's a 600 lb gorilla sitting in the middle of the room, which RTP are determined not to acknowledge: I'm referring to DNA comparisons (with victim) of those who should be prime suspects. Besides Mon and Nomsod, there are their tough-guy buddies who like to pose with weaponized rings and guns. There's only one reason none of those people have been looked at by RTP: COVER-UP!!!

One of the biggest indicators that something is amiss to me is what Mon and his cop mate said to Sean - they were not interested at all in what he might have known or done (even though they said he had their blood on his hands). They seemed to just want a scapegoat quickly to make closing the case a lot easier.

The apparent murder scene is just yards from the beach-front of Mon's resort (InTouch). The B2 were on a log on the beach-front of his resort. The alleged murder weapon is from his resort. His employee found the bodies. He was second on the scene. This couldn't be any more on his patch, yet all he appears to want is a quick convenient closure. If he thought Sean was involved why not try to find out who else was involved etc. I think he knows who, and I don't think he would be covering for (just) the B2.

Well to be totally honest, I am not interested in what Sean has to say either. I don't think he knows anything more about these Murders then we do or he would have said so to the Police by now. Personally, I think he is Show Boating. But then, from a struggle musician looking for gigs and publicity I would think this would be a normal thing to do.

I won't go into whether it is true or not as we can't prove it, but he did make some very serious and damaging accusations about certain families their and how things are run on the Island. Which may also damage the tourist industry their as well. Now suffer a loss of income and jobs, I don't think too many people their would welcome him back with open arms.

Hannah and David's body was found close to where they were staying, If it so happened to be Mon's Resort, so what? I would have been much more surprised if they found the bodies on the other side of the Island. With the Beach right in front of his place it does not surprise he employed someone to clean it. According to some pictures I saw, the garden was close to the Beach and Log. So grabbing that doesn't surprise me either.

It also don't think it is odd to have a Police Man as a Friend. Especially on a small Island where having you choice of friends is limited. My daughter is a Police Woman, but to be honest I wouldn't drive through her city drunk. The best I could hope for from this relationship is perhaps an extra cup of coffee in the Holding Cell. Even if she was the one who caught me.